- Location
- Orlando,FL
Blaiming our military force when it's so vital to our geopolitical situation seems like a horrible idea
Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest
- Thread starter Azel
- Start date
- Original
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
Listen, if our Mob units don't procc Fanatic when they're literally assembled on the grounds of the White Halls, then it can only mean that we're meant to lose. Like one of those cut-scenes where you're forced to fight a boss you can't beat.
I suggest that your diplomacy plan deploy the troops near the White Halls and behind Greenvalley's wall just in case negotiations break down.
We can avoid it if we blame it all on Deer. Say that he thought himself equal to Bear and Wolf in his hubris, and was conspiring to abolish the Council to proclaim himself chief, and so mislead our hunters into evil. Of course, whatever grievances the lowlanders therefore have nothing to do with us, but seeing as he was one of the Valley People's Councilors, the Council will in its grace offer a number of gifts out of a spirit of commiseration.
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My dude, have you ever heard of the home field advantage? Where the people who live on the land actually know more about it than invading troops, their communications I don't know much about, their mobility.... they're horses in mountains, worse, mountain forests, they're great on plains, not as good on rough terrain
If they did send part of their army ahead and such, um, they'd already be doing it at the river (would actually be the best terrain of the area for their horses, if they detach a segment of their forces then we're also dead on the river.
The reason why I believe that we could get away is because, at least from what I know, our land ain't clear, we can melt back into the forest after attacks, and after a few times if being led into traps they won't pursue very far. And really dude, even if what you aid were true but they wouldn't do exactly as you said for the river crossing battle for some reason, we are still screwed attempting to stop them at the river without some ridiculous rolls
Basically, it's doubtful we will be defeated in detail, I believe, because most of their army shouldn't be used to the terrain while we are. Guerrilla warfare has been used since time immemorial by smaller forces to delay and defeat larger ones for and reason, it's effective, and I don't see much reason why it'd stop being so here, your arguments both don't make sense to me and don't make your plan any more attractive
Edit:this came off as more rude than intended, sorry about that
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Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
I think Azel is hinting at us being able to negotiate our way out of this by basically paying tribute, only we've got to put it in a way that doesn't seem like we're paying tribute.
Maybe we should warmly greet the advancing force, ask what brought them to our valley. When they mention the raids, talk about how the vicious conniving Deer and his illegitimate attempt to usurp the council and the lies he told the hunters, misleading them to believing that the Council had ordered such raids when, in fact, we had not. When they list their grievances, commiserate with them, and say that the Valley Peoples, being a mighty and generous peoples, might bestow such gifts as onto the lowlanders, out of wholehearted compassion for the wronged peoples of the world, even though, strictly speaking, this matter has nothing to do with the Valley Peoples.
Starting bid:
* 1 Production
* 1 Unit of Obsidian
* 1 Unit of Azurite
If more demanded:
* 1 Production for Two Turns
* Blood Oath to not attack lowlanders or Goat People for Three Turns
Thoughts?
Reread the battle after the battle of Softhill. Guerrilla warfare did jack shit for us then. We've literally done this before to little effect dude.
Maybe we should warmly greet the advancing force, ask what brought them to our valley. When they mention the raids, talk about how the vicious conniving Deer and his illegitimate attempt to usurp the council and the lies he told the hunters, misleading them to believing that the Council had ordered such raids when, in fact, we had not. When they list their grievances, commiserate with them, and say that the Valley Peoples, being a mighty and generous peoples, might bestow such gifts as onto the lowlanders, out of wholehearted compassion for the wronged peoples of the world, even though, strictly speaking, this matter has nothing to do with the Valley Peoples.
Starting bid:
* 1 Production
* 1 Unit of Obsidian
* 1 Unit of Azurite
If more demanded:
* 1 Production for Two Turns
* Blood Oath to not attack lowlanders or Goat People for Three Turns
Thoughts?
Reread the battle after the battle of Softhill. Guerrilla warfare did jack shit for us then. We've literally done this before to little effect dude.
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- Location
- Orlando,FL
I think we can all agree that, if we can make it out of this alive, we need to come up with an actual plan to deal with the lowlanders. If this situation has shown us anything it's that we can't just poke them with a stick anymore, they have more than enough power to wipe us out if they wanted. We need to either cripple them or wipe them off the map, they pose too great of a threat and are stiffling our growth.
As for plans for actual survival, I don't think we can face them in battle here. We have to be honest with ourselves, we fucked up and they caught us with our pants down, our only real option is to make some concessions and shift the blame onto willow.
It seems to me that we need to make some reforms in government too, the weakness of oligarchy has shown it's head. Maybe we can give some power to the bone tenders?
As for plans for actual survival, I don't think we can face them in battle here. We have to be honest with ourselves, we fucked up and they caught us with our pants down, our only real option is to make some concessions and shift the blame onto willow.
It seems to me that we need to make some reforms in government too, the weakness of oligarchy has shown it's head. Maybe we can give some power to the bone tenders?
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
They actually don't, if our army wasn't in the far eastern mountains doing fuck all, we'd literally obliterate this invading army.
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
So are we agreed? We'll:
* Scapegoat Deer (claim he misguided the hunters and tried to usurp the council)
* Offer tribute but call it a generous gift to our hosts
-- initial offer
--- further concessions we're willing to give if pressed
* Deploy (12 x mobs | 2 x hunters) both inside Greenvalley's walls and in front of the White Halls in case negotiations break down.
* Scapegoat Deer (claim he misguided the hunters and tried to usurp the council)
* Offer tribute but call it a generous gift to our hosts
-- initial offer
--- further concessions we're willing to give if pressed
* Deploy (12 x mobs | 2 x hunters) both inside Greenvalley's walls and in front of the White Halls in case negotiations break down.
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- Location
- Earth, unfortunately
I like this, I feel like this is a good angle to play. But do we have the ability to succeed in fooling them? And again, we don't know if they are just here to kill us all no matter what anyways or not. Guess we'll just have to hope? Is there any possible back up plan besides 'go down fighting' if they refuse or see through the ruse?
- Location
- Orlando,FL
huh. Never really thought about it before, but we're basically just china. We even have the whole quirk about not being able to admit defeat
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
It's not really a ruse. We're not really going to try and fool them. They know we've been raiding them. We know that we've been raiding them. But if they can get what they want (reparations or tribute) amiably while both parties pretend that Greenvalley is giving away its wealth or production out of the goodness of its heart, what's the problem? We get a face-saving domestic excuse and they get what they want while not having to fight their way through 14 pops.
If they refuse we don't really have any choice but to go down fighting, maybe win a miracle victory if Antlers pulls a Helm's Deep.
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Probably yes, though I kinda wonder why they'd accept anything there, they should believe we're no threat, right? I'm just thinking it's better to own the resources than just be payed in them. Hopefully they accept?
So, I looked through the threadmarks and couldn't see one called the battle of Softhill, which one is that?
- Location
- Earth, unfortunately
Ah, so we're trying to fool our people into thinking we arent giving concessions?
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest Original
For the longest while, the old man gazed into the flames of the campfire, listening more to the...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
Exactly.
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- Location
- Orlando,FL
Better to deal with a (hopefully) manageable civil war in the future than the deathball sitting on our front lawn
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
Cross that bridge when we get there.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Thats assuming that the negotiations go right and they are accepted. Otherwise assuming the negs were accepted but our people are not fooled would be civil war before deer even gets back.
I am 90% certain were fucked even if things go right.
I would not be surprised if were risking losing the mandate.
- Location
- Argentina
Honestly? Losing the mandare would allow us to no be dicks.
I'm all for it. The mandate is awesome when we are winning.
And we are definitely not winning
Doesn't matter too much anymore because it doesn't look like we're fighting them, but that doesn't look like guerrilla warfare to me. Looked more like a straight up battle in the field right in front of out village, maybe I'm completely missing something, but I was thinking more hit and run and traps while none of that was there.Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest Original
For the longest while, the old man gazed into the flames of the campfire, listening more to the...
Exactly.
Doesn't matter though, looks like we're negotiating
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Also phoneposting but ill try my best
[X] The Ancestors demand penance, for the days of blood have come again.
-[X] Stage 1: there is hope in dispair
--[X] Send word to the clansmen that the valley is under siege By a substantial force, take any volunteers that will come to the defence.
--[X] evacuate our population and any food they can carry behind the walls of greenvalley, the elderly will go to the white halls.
-[X] Stage 2: proving our worth
--[X] Have our hunters hold the crossing directly, have our mob held in reserve off in the distance camped in the trees incase the enemy get around somewhere and try to take our hunters from behind.
--[X] chop down some trees for logs, if the enemy is coming up river, toss them from the crossing into the river to clog them up and charge them while they are disorganized. If they come from land or use the crossing, use them as cover for the hunters against arrow fire.
-[X] Stage 3: Only the worthy die standing
--[X] if the crossing is lost, those best able and willing to fight retreat to the white halls, those who are not willing to die in the arms of their ancestors will hold up in greenvalley.
Im very adverse to diplomacy, when willow comes back hes going to start a civil war and win handily if we sell ourselves to lowlanders. Much better to actually live up to our ideals.
- Location
- Orlando,FL
Yeah, but things would be a lot more boring without it
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
The thing is WE SHOULD be winning but our military is in the fucking mountains
Losing the mandate would kill the quest. Because I certainly won't be coming back, but even more than that, losing the mandate makes half the quest worthless since we lost it due to Azel interpreting the last vote differently than every single person thats been commenting since noone seems to have thought we were going to chase nomads in the mountains
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
Then Deer wins easily and claims the Mandate from the fishers and artisans, cementing hunter dominance for another few generations. We literally can't lose in a civil war unless both sides grind themselves to dust.
Losing the Mandate Identity and losing the Mandate are two very different things. We can lose the Mandate and not lose the Mandate Identity. It just means that the culturally-converted White Clans chiefs and our own pops will see us as illegitimate, sparking a round of civil wars until someone emerges who can legitimately claim the Mandate in their own right.
We'd have to be conquered wholesale to lose the Mandate Identity.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Even more than THAT, losing the mandate trait means we now get NEGATIVE culture traits that EXPLICITLY hurt us.