The Game of Crusading Thrones, Self-Insert Edition (GoT CK2)

[X] The Truth (Obi-wan style)
-[X] When we fell terribly sick, we dreamed a dream, in which we lived another life in another world, a world filled with wonders. We have been trying to recreate some of the wonders from that world.
[X] [Direwolf] Summer
[X] [Sword] Weeping Shards

I think Summer is a great name for a Direwolf, as for the sword, since it was made from broken daggers... though I'd be willing to change if someone has something cool that further develops that.

EDIT: Since Edwlye has his own thoughts, let's just let him name it. Seems sensible since without him it would not have been made.
 
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[X] The Truth (Obi-wan style)
-[X] When we fell terribly sick, we dreamed a dream, in which we lived another life in another world, a world filled with wonders. We have been trying to recreate some of the wonders from that world.
[X] [Direwolf] Summer
[X] [Sword] Shards
 
[X] Tell the truth of how some year's ago when he fell terrible sick, the Old Gods came to him and gave him the wisdom and knowledge belonging to a departed soul, to prepare the North for the change the world would and is going through.

[X] [Direwolf] Summer
[] [Sword] Frostbite
[] [Sword] Wintersbane
[] [Sword] Excalibur

Any of those names would be fine with me, and hey, why not steal the name of a sword no one here has ever heard of?
 
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[X] Tell the truth of how some year's ago when he fell terrible sick, the Old Gods came to him and gave him the wisdom and knowledge belonging to a departed soul, to prepare the North for the change the world would and is going through.
 
[X] Tell the truth of how some year's ago when he fell terrible sick, the Old Gods came to him and gave him the wisdom and knowledge belonging to a departed soul, to prepare the North for the change the world would and is going through.

[X] [Direwolf] Summer
[X] [Sword] Wintersbane

With regards to the Ironborn I have two goals.
a) The destruction of the worship of the Drowned God. It's not a valuable cultural tradition, it's a religion of evil. Kill the priests, destroy the temples if they have any, and try to install other gods, preferably the Old Gods.
b) Free the thralls and destroy their capacity to get new ones quickly. The Ironborn can learn how to sow or they can starve. If they lack experience, equipment or seeds, I would be willing to help out. The Iron Islands may not be particularly well suited to it, but there is agriculture on Iceland, so it should be possible. And fish will likely be a staple food, of course.

Achieving this will require a temporary occupation, hopefully not too long.
 
Just so you know, Edwyle had his own idea for a name for his sword, as do other characters. This is a vote to suggest it to him.
Is there any chance we could know what those ideas are? If he (or someone among our friends and kin) has a great idea, I'm all for saying "damn, son, that's better than any I had, well done."
With regards to the Ironborn I have two goals.
a) The destruction of the worship of the Drowned God. It's not a valuable cultural tradition, it's a religion of evil. Kill the priests, destroy the temples if they have any, and try to install other gods, preferably the Old Gods.
b) Free the thralls and destroy their capacity to get new ones quickly. The Ironborn can learn how to sow or they can starve. If they lack experience, equipment or seeds, I would be willing to help out. The Iron Islands may not be particularly well suited to it, but there is agriculture on Iceland, so it should be possible. And fish will likely be a staple food, of course.

Achieving this will require a temporary occupation, hopefully not too long.
Destruction of any religion, like any idea, is difficult nigh impossible to achieve. Supplanting it, however, might be more doable -- either making the Storm God become more appealing (praising a god whose storms attack your enemies or wait until you're safely in harbor would make a certain amount of sense for a seafaring culture -- "praise be to you, Storm Lord, for leaving me the fuck alone today") or twisting worship of the Drowned God into things like a love of the sea and respect for nature, a desire for voyage and discovery, and a hope to one day join him beneath the tides.

I agree that occupation will be necessary, at least in the short term. I think I'll read up on the American occupation of Japan after the war to see if there's applicable lessons from that, as that appears to have borne better results than other occupations have in the past.
 
Just so you know, Edwyle had his own idea for a name for his sword, as do other characters. This is a vote to suggest it to him.

Okay, in that case I say let Edwyle name the sword. It was won through his diplomacy so let him have his moment in the sun.

With regards to the Ironborn I have two goals.
a) The destruction of the worship of the Drowned God. It's not a valuable cultural tradition, it's a religion of evil. Kill the priests, destroy the temples if they have any, and try to install other gods, preferably the Old Gods.
b) Free the thralls and destroy their capacity to get new ones quickly. The Ironborn can learn how to sow or they can starve. If they lack experience, equipment or seeds, I would be willing to help out. The Iron Islands may not be particularly well suited to it, but there is agriculture on Iceland, so it should be possible. And fish will likely be a staple food, of course.

Achieving this will require a temporary occupation, hopefully not too long.

I don't see how this can be achieved with anything less than permanent occupation and annexation. I think the occupation of Wales by the English is probably the best historical analogy. Most of the Ironborn nobility will have to be replaced, or at least intermarried with others. Maybe houses Harlaw and Farwynd might prove co-operative:
-Further Afield (Iron Isles): 1d100+19 = 82. The Iron Islands are a troublesome land and a troublesome land to spy on, but rumors are simple enough to gather. You hear word of rebellions put down by sword and dread sorcery, of great krakens and other sea monsters shattering rebellious keeps, of the "glory" of the Drowned God and the Iron Price. Only a few houses seem to have embraced it less than wholeheartedly, Harlaw and Farwynd among them. Locked 1 season.
The rest of the Ironborn lords are going to be dead set on paying the Iron Price aka theft, rape, and murder.

I say we establish a rule that those that have committed rape or murder (meaning pretty much every lord that has a "salt wife" or has been out reaving) gets punished according to our laws, which means either execution or being sent to the Wall. That will decapitate those in favor of rape and murder.

We replace them with those who fight gallantly in the conquest (whether from the North or the Vale). I'm sure there will be plenty of second sons or natural sons who want to establish their own holdfast. Perhaps they can marry some of the daughters of the old Ironborn lords to create a continuity. We free the thralls (most of who are enslaved to working in the mines), and through them establish a loyal subset among the smallfolk. Perhaps some of the common soldiers will also want to stay and try their luck in the Isles where they can farm land that is currently underused. The Ironborn smallfolk due to their emphasis on sailing will be shifted to fishing and trade instead of raiding. Which actually should end up providing the smallfolk with more lasting benefits than reaving did (as reaving put most of the plunder in the hands of the nobles).

Those new Lords will provide the needed sponsoring to establish and support godswoods and septs, which can then convert the smallfolk.

It will take decades to firmly establish a new way of living, without the raping and the murdering and the thieving, but it's a worthwhile effort. I think we also set our heir Eddard up as the Prince of the Isles (ala Prince of Wales) to create a constant link from the Iron Isle to the throne and Stark dynasty. Probably that means establishing him at Pyke? His Mormont wife will help him secure the place as well, as having links to the Western Lords will be important, and a wife who is good at combat will probably mesh better with Iron Isle norms.
 
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[X] The Truth (Obi-wan style)
-[X] When we fell terribly sick, we dreamed a dream, in which we lived another life in another world, a world filled with wonders. We have been trying to recreate some of the wonders from that world.
[X] [Direwolf] Summer
[X] [Sword] Weeping Shards
 
[X] Blame a kindly spirit giving you ideas

It seems silly at first sight, but it's surprisingly believable. At this point, there is evidence of the Old Gods, magic and the supernatural everywhere. Ever the skeptical maesters can't deny it. There has also been ample proof that Torrhen is unusually favored by all that. Strange and overabundant knowledge coming from a strange, supernatural, but undeniably real, source, rather than a normal man should fit very well in Brynden's mind.

[X] [Direwolf] Fenrir

Cliché, but awesome.

[X] [Sword] Wintersbane

I prefer this one to any variation of 'weep' or 'weeping'.
 
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[x] The Truth (Obi-wan style)
-[x] When we fell terribly sick, we dreamed a dream, in which we lived another life in another world, a world filled with wonders. We have been trying to recreate some of the wonders from that world.
[x] [Direwolf] Fenrir
[x] [Sword] Sword

Yeah, so I don't really have an opinion on the last, obviously. If Edwyle wants to name it himself, I say go for it.
 
So, Important Question: What is our stated objective and win condition for the War against Ironborn? Do we have a long-term, strategic plan to achieve our goal?
I ask this because when I first skimmed over the thread discussion after our alliance with the Vale against the Ironborn, there was a split opinion on just WHY we're doing it because we were "only" getting an allied buffer kingdom.

I don't see how it can end with anything other than annexing the Iron Island to our kingdom. The following of the Drowned God is a cancer, it has been mentioned a few times how parts of the Riverlands that Harren holds have been turned barren and unproductive. It has to be destroyed. In addition, the Ironborn can't be allowed to continue kidnapping people, destroying families, and stealing the property of innocents. We'd have to occupy the islands, send the unrepentant to the Wall, reach an understanding with the Harlaws and other moderates, have the Green Men begin preaching, teach them honest ways to make a living... A long, long process.

And since we convinced the Vale to not annex lands of the Riverlands, we'd probably need to negotiate some compensation with them, since they'd be angry that we did get extra lands for the North, even if it's only the Iron Islands.
 
And since we convinced the Vale to not annex lands of the Riverlands, we'd probably need to negotiate some compensation with them, since they'd be angry that we did get extra lands for the North, even if it's only the Iron Islands.
That I dunno about -- they may feel like the Iron Islands are the proverbial hot potato and don't mind that becoming our problem instead of theirs.
 
Do we have to worry about Acolyte espionage now btw?
Is it a bad thing that the Citadel observes the economic changes in the North? Not really.

I think we do have to be careful. Everybody spies on everybody in Westeros. Argella was perfectly nice to us, and very cooperative in several regards, but she still spies on us and tries to steal from us. Letting some ideas spread is ok, but we should be careful on the maesters finding out how much wealth the North has, or getting the secret to our roads without compensation.

Next turn, besides the Issue Command to the western lords to expand logging around Deepwood Motte (and get the quest) we should do some like:

Issue Command (Bureaucrats): Keep the work that deals with sensitive info exclusively for northern workers. Keep an eye on the newly hired acolytes, and take note if any of them asks too many questions about things that aren't their business.

Issue Command (Snow): Instruct the bureaucrats on some basic measures to avoid making things too easy to possible spies.

That I dunno about -- they may feel like the Iron Islands are the proverbial hot potato and don't mind that becoming our problem instead of theirs.

That could happen, but even if they don't really care, they could believably use it as a excuse to press for concessions.
 
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That I dunno about -- they may feel like the Iron Islands are the proverbial hot potato and don't mind that becoming our problem instead of theirs.

Not to mention it being on the other side of Westeros from them, it's pretty much impossible for the Vale to keep them under control. The Rivermen are in no shape to do after the ravages of their land. I suppose the Westerlands could do it, but they are not friendly to us either. The Iron Isles are not worthless, access to iron is useful, though not as important to us since we have our own iron mines. The main benefit to us however is that it opens the Sunset Sea to trade. Trade between Oldtown and Barrowtown/Tolgett's Yard will become quite valuable. Crosstrade between White Harbor and the west coast will also grow.

And, of course, we gain an allied kingdom in the Riverlands, which serves as a nice buffer from the Westerlands.

That could happen, but even if they don't really care, they could believably use it as a excuse to press for concessions.

Vale warriors are going to join us in the invasion. Let's just reward some of them with keeps and lands, though they still have to swear to us as their king. That should be sufficient to satisfy the Vale lords, since they can't realistically annex the Isles themselves.
 
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Well, yes, there's no realistic way for the Vale or the Stormlands to take pieces of the Iron Islands into their kingdoms when the Riverlands are in between. And we certainly aren't gonna give them to the Riverlands or the Westerlands, who geographically could contest them. The later, because they're hostile. The former, because we're already doing more than enough for them freeing them from Harren.

But during negotiations, it was us who pushed the Vale into leaving the Riverlands whole and give up on any conquest. Even if destroying Harren and his armies is in everybody's interest, the Valemen are gonna free the Riverlands pretty much for free, because we insisted on it. If we go now and get a prize from this war in the form of lands, any kind of lands, I'd be very, very surprised if they don't cry 'Foul!'. Even if it's only to not look weak in front of their people.
 
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But during negotiations, it was us who pushed the Vale into leaving the Riverlands whole and give up on any conquest. Even if destroying Harren and his armies is in everybody's interest, the Valemen are gonna free the Riverlands pretty much for free, because we insisted on it. If we go now and get a prize from this war in the form of lands, any kind of lands, I'd be very, very surprised if they don't cry 'Foul!'. Even if it's only to not look weak in front of their people.

The Iron Isles are able to support 36 noble houses. Of which maybe six are possibly willing to live in a world without the Iron Price. If we distribute say, a third of the remaining to Valemen houses, even if they are required to swear allegiance to the King in the North, there are going to be no complaints from the Valemen. It's not like the regions are nation states. They are feudal lords, and mostly concerned with benefit for their houses. If they get to establish a cadet branch for their second or third son that they previously had no hope of providing anything more than a household knight position for they are going to be happy. If they can provide a favored bastard son with a position far away from their jealous wife then they are going to be happy. The fact that these sons will not be sworn to House Arryn isn't going to bother them at all.

Dorne and the North are perhaps proto-nation states due to differences in religion and culture, but the rest of Westeros is not as attached to such concepts. The smallfolk certainly are not going to care. They'll just be happy there aren't anymore Ironborn nearby the Vale to kidnap their daughters.

Plus it works out for us too, as it creates some connections that will draw some Valemen resources into the occupation, making up for our own lower population density.
 
[X] The Truth (Obi-wan style)
-[X] When we fell terribly sick, we dreamed a dream, in which we lived another life in another world, a world filled with wonders. We have been trying to recreate some of the wonders from that world.
 
[X] Tell the truth of how some year's ago when he fell terrible sick, the Old Gods came to him and gave him the wisdom and knowledge belonging to a departed soul, to prepare the North for the change the world would and is going through.
[X] [Direwolf] Fenrir
[X] [Sword] White Fang
 
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