Because they are really, really beautiful. So beautiful that no amount of words would convey it, and to part with one would be like tearing your own soul.
The Silmarillion Quest
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Location
- Austria
Because it is unearthly beautiful? None on Arda (or in Valinor either) have seen anything as beautiful, save perhaps for Two Trees or Two Lamps.
It is literally divine in its beauty; wonderful enough to burn dark creatures and mortals on touch, because it is That Great.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Ah, so it's so pretty it actively makes you too stupid to go "Hey, I found that gem of yours. Can I just follow with you and stare at it for the rest of my life? Since I'm mortal that won't be more than a few decades, and I did bring you the gem instead of trying to hide it away."
It keeps Darkness away, technically. I'm sure that the light from them can have some magical effects, similar to being in Valinor (since they do contain the light of the Trees, and just seeing that light has a noticeable effect on Elves). Possibly shown mechanically through buffs to Grace, Health and Magic?
- Location
- Austria
I mean, other issue is that you are either talking to:
1. Non-feanorlings. Feanorlings will shortly come over and murder/steal/betray everything to get it.
2. Feanorlings. Most are bastards who will kill you for daring to look at their (always their) Silmaril, others will kill you for daring to think that just because you have brought it to them you have any right to lay out terms - it is theirs, was always theirs, and you have no right to say or demand or beg anything about it.
Amrod and Amros might be different, so they will instead merely tell you to fuck off - as, after all, they are Feanorlings.
To be fair, Feanor himself has a pretty undeniable claim to the gems, since he did make them, and with his own soul at that. By extension, I'd say that his sons also have a strong claim (taking into account that they haven't committed all their atrocities yet).
Also, I don't think any of the Noldor from Valinor were mentioned to covet the jewels, either. In fact, the only one who really did was Melkor, and he's like, the original greed, so.
Also, I don't think any of the Noldor from Valinor were mentioned to covet the jewels, either. In fact, the only one who really did was Melkor, and he's like, the original greed, so.
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Then it wouldn't be yours to own forever, would it? And can't have that.
- Location
- Romania
Elwing, who is Elrond and Elros mother, chose suicide over relinquishing the jewel even to spare her sons. Like sure she lived, because Ulmo's a good guy/God, but she had no idea she would.
In that moment her sons lives mattered less than the jewel. And her parents and twin brothers had been killed over said Silmaril, so it wasn't as if she didn't know that abandoning her children spelt death for them.
Frankly had Maglor also not been a good dude and regretted her brothers deaths, they would have died. No ifs or buts.
As long as we can, let's leave those cursed things alone. They're not worth it.
And it's not as if we don't know at least how some of the smithing process went, so if we truly want similar jewels we can always, once we learn the skill, have smiths or those who commission such works pour they're souls within them. I wouldn't advise it however, since it sounds like the best way to get Ringwraiths without Rings of Power, since Men aren't tied to Arda.
In that moment her sons lives mattered less than the jewel. And her parents and twin brothers had been killed over said Silmaril, so it wasn't as if she didn't know that abandoning her children spelt death for them.
Frankly had Maglor also not been a good dude and regretted her brothers deaths, they would have died. No ifs or buts.
As long as we can, let's leave those cursed things alone. They're not worth it.
And it's not as if we don't know at least how some of the smithing process went, so if we truly want similar jewels we can always, once we learn the skill, have smiths or those who commission such works pour they're souls within them. I wouldn't advise it however, since it sounds like the best way to get Ringwraiths without Rings of Power, since Men aren't tied to Arda.
- Location
- Austria
looks at Lay of Luthien questline
We cannot leave them alone lol, we are fated to mess with those silly things.
nah
nobody is Feanor, not even Aule himself
Silmarils are unique in history of Arda
- Location
- UK
Honestly, best to avoid the Silmarils if we possibly can, and if we find out where they are it's best to let Feanor and co. know straight away. The longer the Silmarils are out of their possession, the more people will probably die uncontrollably as a result. Unless we actively plan on killing their entire bloodline, ensuring the Silmarils are returned to them as quickly as possible would be the best course of action.
Actually, is it possible to swear a kind of binding oath equivalent to what Feanor and his sons swore, so we'd always return them? If other people also did the same, that would make things a lot easier.
Actually, is it possible to swear a kind of binding oath equivalent to what Feanor and his sons swore, so we'd always return them? If other people also did the same, that would make things a lot easier.
Oaths on the level of Feanor's is a Bad Idea for a variety of reasons, not least of which is that all things in the world are Marred. Plus, the Oath invokes the literal highest power in the universe and the consequences of failing to keep it is Everlasting Dark; I'm not sure how that would work for Men due to the Gift, but I'm really not looking forward to finding out.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, now I'm unsure about Action Development Economy because of Defiance...
- Location
- Romania
Could I ask why exactly? Because the only option that we should be wary of is the Fëanorians. Sure, it might not be so bad, ai suppose if we roll well enough...still.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
People talking about how hard and fatalistic it is.
It does seem pretty fatalistic. Accepting that our Enemy is the master of the world and that our defiance will end in death that we will have to accept is pretty much the definition of the word. There's a reason the option itself doesn't have a word "Hope" in it's name, and that it explicitly gives up on lifting the shadow in the heart of men. Personally, I dislike that, and I think that we need some higher ideal and hope to die for than simply resisting out of spite. A road like that doesn't seem like it'll lead anywhere good.
Also, more than that, I am very worried that Action Development Economy assigns only one leader with only one reroll on explicitly hard option with an explicit possibility of disastrous failure. Accepting that our enemy is the strongest and yet failing to rail our people's spirits to defy him seems like a really, really bad outcome.
- Location
- Central Europe
I don't think The Great Fear necessarily requires two leaders, however The Defiance is a bit too Feanor-esque for my taste. We, the readers, might know that the struggle against Morgoth is ultimately doomed and thus Defiance would be a very fitting choice. That said the House of Beor doesn't know that and I think Hope is a very poweful force in Tolkien's world. So I'm gonna go with...
gotta keep this vote dead-locked until Res Publica updates :b
[X] Plan Recruiting Heroes, Keeping to the Old Ways
gotta keep this vote dead-locked until Res Publica updates :b
[X] Plan Recruiting Heroes, Keeping to the Old Ways
- Location
- Texas
Feanor-esque would be taking the "talk to the Feanorians" about how they manage to strike back. This would be man's take on a grim world ruled by their enemy. Whatever the odds may be, wherever the Enemy might go, wherever the Shadow lays it's claws, Men will not give in. That's stronger than hope. That's saying, even if we have no chance at all, Men will never back down before Melkor out of sheer gumption. Are we doomed to be defeated? We've made it this far, and we'll go further.
Except, it's not. To fight out of sheer defiance is to accept that there's no chance of our victory, to cede that Morgoth will eventually conquer all and that all there's is in our fate is to delay the inevitable as much as we can, because that is the only way we can live. There is a certain strength in accepting such doom and deciding to fight on regardless, it's true, but it is not stronger than fighting with knowledge that however mighty Morgoth may seem, there are powers much stronger and things that he can never hope to subdue, and that those things and powers are on our side. A strength from defiance seems brittle to me, because it's a power that burns spirit with every tribulation, and even the mightiest will eventually spend it all, much like Turin Turambar did. And if even the mightiest heroes run out of spirit to continue, I do not see how the entire civilization can not. A man cannot live without hope.
And it does seem very Feonorian, for what was their oath and then insistence on keeping it and continuing their pursuit even despite the Doom of Mandos, if not an attempt to defy the will of both Morgoth and Valar? And while they were unquestionably mighty in their defiance, it made them lesser, in the end.
- Location
- Central Europe
What I meant with "Feanor-esque" is this passage from the Silmarillion shortly before Feanor dies:
"For Fëanor, in his wrath against the Enemy, would not halt, but pressed on behind the remnant of the Orcs, thinking so to come at Morgoth himself: and he laughed aloud as he wielded his sword, rejoicing that he had dared the wrath of the Valar and the evils of the road, that he might see the hour of his vengeance."
Sure, it is not the same as: "We will spit in his eye all the same, and go grinning to our deaths.", but it reminded me of Feanor.
- Location
- Texas
You've packaged a lot into the premise of defiance which is not present in the text itself. What is Hope to men who have never seen the Light of the Trees, never seen aid of the Valar in years of running, whose entire history has shown that the world doesn't belong to them? How many lifetimes of Men will it take for stronger powers to intervene? Men have seen no power greater than the Shadow, but why should that rule us, for even as late as a few turns ago, we wiped out an entire band of the Enemy's servants with no casualties. Even under a fatalistic world view, even if we accept death by Morgoth as inevitable, why should that make us give up and die? It is already the Gift of Man to die, so let us live in a way we can be proud of. Let us grow mightier and mightier and add to our chronicles, spiting the Dark Lord who sought to snuffle out the Children of the Sun in our youth. And again, in regards to being Feanorian, they no longer ruled their lives and instead bound themselves up singularly in their possessiveness and spite. We've sworn no Oath, we are yet free. Your points however are well-argued, and a worthy alternative.
