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The Silmarillion Quest

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Void Stalker said:
You mean the min magic of 8 from the action we took? yeah right now we have some nice buffs on leader gen so maxing out leaders makes sense and with decent grace (min 7) we should have good XP gain.
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VagrantHero said:
I was also looking at those Turn 3 bonuses for Bard leaders and thought to myself, "Why haven't we prioritized this if we want Lore so badly?" @EVA-Saiyajin
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And we'll have an additional +5 to Lore from Beor the Old
 
[X] Plan Up and Comers By Moonlight
-[X] The Starmoon: When your elven visitors speak of the Moon, they speak also of Ithildin, the starmoon, the script of living light with which they write upon their blades and their doors and their armor, which protects them always and garbs them in the light of the moon. You could learn of Ithildin, though it would take time, they say. (May Upgrade The Moon Way to The Path of the Moon)
--[X] Send Belen: You send your brother Belen to study and learn this art from the elves. (Belen will leave for 3 turns, significant chance of success)
-[X] The Defiance: Mayhap you cannot lift the shadow from their hearts, but you may be able to turn them against it. Your people did not give in for a dozen lifetimes of the Great Flight -- why should they succumb to fear now that it is ended. The Enemy has followed us here -- so what? The Enemy is master of the world -- so what? We will spit in his eye all the same, and go grinning to our deaths. (???)
--[X] Leader Baran
-[X] The Sons Of Fire: You ask the Feanorians to aid you in all your endeavors for the next year, to lend their wisdom and expertise to all your tasks. (The Ambarussa bonus is doubled next year, and applies to Diplomacy and Combat as well)
-[X] Trade With Them: Your people remember the dwarves your ancient fathers met, a short and stout people with a love of coin. If their cousins are anything similar, they will value wealth over flinging dirt. (-1 Wealth)
--[X] Leader Baran
-[X] Speak With Marach: You invite the boisterous and golden-haired leader of the tall men to speak with you in your newly-built home.
-[X] There are some among the Wise whose voices are deep and whose words cut the soul with their beauty. Their music is an echo of the First. (Chance of recruiting a bard leader)
--[X] Leader Belen
-[X] The Wise are petitioning you to build a hall where they could gather and speak their stories.
-[X] You increase the number of hunters out on the plains, that you might gather more food this year. (Hunters gather more food)(Increased Hunter influence)(The tribe is less defended)
-[X] You attempt to construct a great Hall in your burgeoning village, to serve as your seat and the seat of your children.
-[X] You have seen the massive herds of the House of Marach, for you are not blind. You would have herds such as these. You begin attempting to increase the size of your people's herds.

Baran's three actions are The Defiance, Trading with the Petty Dwarves, and Speaking with Marach. Belen's two are The Starmoon and recruiting a bard. Halbeth's one is The Sons of Fire. Free Wise action is building a hall for them.

I want to deepen our understanding of the Moon Way for better ranger types for the Siege and other martial endeavors, find a hope for mortal men against the Great Fear, double up the Ambarussa bonus while we still have them around, turn the petty dwarves from enemies into trading partners, gain a bard, impress the leader of the Marach with our great hall and hall of wisdom when we invite him over, increase the hunter influence, and get more food for coming harshness.

Approval vote for

[X] Plan Action Economy Development
 
Telamon said:
Your people have 12 months worth of food -- just enough to get through to the next year, barring any unfortunate accidents. Fell winds gust down from the horizon, and all signs indicate that this year will be harsh indeed. Your hunters will gather just 6 months worth of food, with an extra 2 from the Gardens of the Entwives.
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Does this mean we have 12 months of food stored and will collect 8 more during the year?
 
I can really see the appeal of Plan Action Economy Development, we do need more actions. My problems with it (and to be fair, Plan Narn I Chîn Marach) are two-fold with one more an issue of personal preference. Firstly I just really dislike The Defiance as our answer to the Great Fear because it's honestly not hopeful, it's fatalistic and I find it quite depressing. There's no greater hope to it, no optimism, nothing to suggest the future or the world will ever get better, simply an acceptance that if we're going to die we might as well die fighting. We can do better.

The second is a more pragmatic reason; the Great Fear is quite clearly going to be incredibly difficult and if it fails the consequences will be severe. Yet both leading plans only assign a single Leader to it. I understand the desire to get as much value from each Turn as possible, but some things do require the attention of multiple leaders to minimise the chances of failure as much as possible. This, to me, is quite clearly one of them.
 
HastyGaming said:
I can really see the appeal of Plan Action Economy Development, we do need more actions. My problems with it (and to be fair, Plan Narn I Chîn Marach) are two-fold with one more an issue of personal preference. Firstly I just really dislike The Defiance as our answer to the Great Fear because it's honestly not hopeful, it's fatalistic and I find it quite depressing. There's no greater hope to it, no optimism, nothing to suggest the future or the world will ever get better, simply an acceptance that if we're going to die we might as well die fighting. We can do better.

The second is a more pragmatic reason; the Great Fear is quite clearly going to be incredibly difficult and if it fails the consequences will be severe. Yet both leading plans only assign a single Leader to it. I understand the desire to get as much value from each Turn as possible, but some things do require the attention of multiple leaders to minimise the chances of failure as much as possible. This, to me, is quite clearly one of them.
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I too see the appeal of assigning multiple leaders to the Great Fear. but we've got a time crunch right now when it comes to handling our neighbors and preparing to fulfill our debt to our Elven lords. When we have more leaders, we can better afford to assign multiple to critical tasks, but they are needed elsewhere. I'd love to improve our chances on something as important as the Great Fear, but Baran will have to be enough for now. I'm also biased in favor of the fatalistic approach, as I have a great curiosity to see what alternate paths lie before us waiting to be taken, and sorrow is indeed one of the themes of the Silmarillion, but that is personal preference.
 
[X] Plan Recruiting Heroes, Keeping to the Old Ways

Questline: The Great Fear
[] The Old Hope: Even as you had fled through the countless miles and years, your people carried an old hope with you. A hope that the Nameless can be defied, that the Shadow is not eternal, and that one day the One will go into his world and fix all that has been marred. You extort your people to find heart in that old hope once again, for it is in these days it rings true most of all, with your flight over, your food plenty and the Enemy besieged in his lair by Eldar who believe in the One they call Eru.
-[] Baran
-[] Belen

Questline: The Sons of the Fire
[] The Sons Of Fire: You ask the Feanorians to aid you in all your endeavors for the next year, to lend their wisdom and expertise to all your tasks. (The Ambarussa bonus is doubled next year, and applies to Diplomacy and Combat as well)

Questline: The Petty-Dwarves
[] Trade With Them: Your people remember the dwarves your ancient fathers met, a short and stout people with a love of coin. If their cousins are anything similar, they will value wealth over flinging dirt. (-1 Wealth)
-[] Belen

Questline: The Children of the Sun
[] Greet Them: You send someone to welcome your cousins to the new land.
-[] Baran
[] Gift Them: You send someone with a few elven trinkets as a gift. Beauty like this does not exist beyond the mountains. Hopefully they will be suitably impressed.
[] Speak With Marach: You invite the boisterous and golden-haired leader of the tall men to speak with you in your newly-built home

The Words of the Wise:
[] There are some among the Wise whose voices are deep and whose words cut the soul with their beauty. Their music is an echo of the First. (Chance of recruiting a bard leader)
-[] Belen

The Hunters:
[] There are hunters of great skill and fame among their number, and a select few of these may grow greater still. (Chance of recruiting a Ranger or Warrior leader)
-[] Baran
[] You encourage the Hunters to get closer to the Elven visitors and learn their knowledge.
-[] Halbeth

General Leadership:
[] You give extra rations to the hunters and the scouts, that the people may be better defended and protected in the days to come. (Requires an extra month of food)(Hunters are more effective)(Increase the influence of the Hunters)
[] You increase the number of hunters out on the plains, that you might gather more food this year. (Hunters gather more food)(Increased Hunter influence)(The tribe is less defended)
[] You have the youngest and most able men of the tribe gathered and armed. These will not hunt, but rather protect the people of your tribe when the men are away. (Hunters may be displeased)


I wasn't intending to make a plan this turn, but I'm worried enough about the consequences of the two leading plans that I decided I might as well.

This Plan is much the same as [] Plan Action Economy Development, with the main change being that rather than going with the overly fatalistic 'The Defiance' as our answer to the Great Fear it instead uses the more bittersweet, yet still somewhat hopeful, Old Hope write-in from @agumentic.

I find it quite appealing for the Race of Man, worn down (in a way unique to the younger race of man) from their flight from the Shadow, with some of the reckless defiance they hold strong to, knowing that they have to fight and die and persevere until finally, hopefully, Eru will set things to right. A faint hope, a fools hope... but perhaps just enough of a hope to see them through.

The second change is that The Old Ways (not to be mistaken with the write-in!) have been set aside for a turn, one turn, so that we can assign both Baran and Belen to the Great Fear Quest. The Great Fear stands as our greatest challenge - and perhaps threat - and the negative modifiers it heaps on us are substantial. We simply can't risk the roll failing. And as The Old Ways is something that's very unlikely to show results in the near future setting it aside for one turn is hardly a massive setback.

TLDR Sometimes defiance alone isn't enough, and people need just the slightest touch of faith, and hope, to make the sorrow of the struggle bittersweet rather than heartrending.


[X] Plan To Fight Fear
 
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Well, there is the issue that Man needs to keep upgrading lores lest they lose them. But one turn is probably not enough for that.
 
[X] Plan Recruiting Heroes, Keeping to the Old Ways

I can get behind this going back to Eru and two leaders on trying to get it to go through and it still has trying to recruit 2 leaders to get us to cap.
 
@VagrantHero
If you want to remove Belen from the Old Ways for something else, I have no issues with it.

[X] Plan Recruiting Heroes, Keeping to the Old Ways
Adhoc vote count started by Appirinia on Aug 19, 2019 at 2:02 PM, finished with 235 posts and 25 votes.
  • [X] Plan Action Economy Development
    [X]Plan Narn I Chîn Marach
    [X] Plan Phone a Finrod
    [X] Plan To Fight Fear
    [X] Preparing for the future
    [x] Plan Hunting is All
    -[x] You tell Belen and the Wise to study the arts of the Valar themselves, and perhaps find a path that even the elves have not walked. (???)
    -[x] The Defiance: Mayhap you cannot lift the shadow from their hearts, but you may be able to turn them against it. Your people did not give in for a dozen lifetimes of the Great Flight -- why should they succumb to fear now that it is ended. The Enemy has followed us here -- so what? The Enemy is master of the world -- so what? We will spit in his eye all the same, and go grinning to our deaths. (???)
    --[X] Belen
    -[x] The Wood: Amras, youngest among the Feanorians, once rode on great hunts with the Huntsman of the Valar himself, Orome. He has a few tricks he can show even your hunters. The twin sons of Feanor know how to drive their prey before them, and how to bend the wood to their will. (Chance of learning a Cultural Lore)(Lose the Ambarussa bonus next turn)
    --[X] Halbeth​
    -[x] Trade With Them: Your people remember the dwarves your ancient fathers met, a short and stout people with a love of coin. If their cousins are anything similar, they will value wealth over flinging dirt. (-1 Wealth)
    --[X] Baran​

    -[x] Greet Them: You send someone to welcome your cousins to the new land.
    -[x] Gift Them: You send someone with a few elven trinkets as a gift. Beauty like this does not exist beyond the mountains. Hopefully they will be suitably impressed.
    -[x] There are some among the Wise whose voices are deep and whose words cut the soul with their beauty. Their music is an echo of the First. (Chance of recruiting a bard leader)
    --[x] Belen(free action)
    -[x] The Hunters are petitioning you to build a lodge on the outskirts of the village where they can gather, clean their kills, and set out on rangings.
    -[x] You encourage the Hunters to get closer to the Elven visitors and learn their knowledge.
    -[X] You increase the number of hunters out on the plains, that you might gather more food this year. (Hunters gather more food)(Increased Hunter influence)(The tribe is less defended)​
    -[x] You have seen the massive herds of the House of Marach, for you are not blind. You would have herds such as these. You begin attempting to increase the size of your people's herds.
    [X] Plan Healing Moon/Too Late To Gain Supporters​
    -[X] Invite the dark-haired men to join you in Estolad, and swear themselves to the elves. (Increased relation with Finrod, some of the new men may share Estolad with you)​

    --[X] Baran​

    -[X] The Land Above The Rivers: The wide land called Thargelion is open and lush, and may well be home to some few of the ents. If any have settled in these open plains, it would likely be the Entwives, who value open land to plant and tend their great gardens. The Entwives, the Elves say, know the secrets of the growing things.​
    --[X] Halbeth​
    -[X] The Moon Way: In the darkest days of the Great Flight, when the Shadow stretched across the world and the power of the Enemy prevailed upon all, those who could walk without sound and move without sight were valued above all others. This is the way they kept silent from the Orcs and outran the Wargs, in the light of the moon in older days. The Elves know the power of the Moon, whom they call Ithil, and name it among the great enemies of the Shadow.​
    -[X] The Healing Way: An old crone named Imarwen remembers her mothers' mothers tales of the grasses and the herbs and the words which could heal, which could quicken womb and help bone mend. The words have all but been forgotten, and the skill is all but dead. Belen learns it from her. The elves know something of this way, and say in their songs that Este, the gentlest of the Valar, weeps for the suffering of mortals, and aids them as she can.​
    -[X] The hunters say that there seems to be great abundance in the forests to your north. They wish to explore it.​
    -[X] The hunters have found a mighty boar that rampages through the forests, and has already slain two men. You declare a Great Hunt to find and kill the boar, promising that the man who slays it will be rewarded with extra food and a celebration in his honor. (Requires two months of food)​
    -[X] You begin the construction of small, temporary homes to shelter your people. Little more than hovels of mud and wood, they are still more than you have ever known.​
    --[X] Request Elven Aid (may owe the elves)​

    -[X] You give extra rations to the elderly and the Wise, that the memory of where we have been does not fade before it can be passed on. (Requires an extra month of food)(Increase the influence of the Wise)​

    -[X] You increase the number of hunters out on the plains, that you might gather more food this year. (Hunters gather more food)(Increased Hunter influence)(The tribe is less defended)​
    [X] The hunters have found a mighty boar that rampages through the forests, and has already slain two men. You declare a Great Hunt to find and kill the boar, promising that the man who slays it will be rewarded with extra food and a celebration in his honor. (Requires two months of food): DC 150​
    -[X] Invite the dark-haired men to join you in Estolad, and swear themselves to the elves. (Increased relation with Finrod, some of the new men may share Estolad with you): DC 110​
    -[X] The Land Above The Rivers: The wide land called Thargelion is open and lush, and may well be home to some few of the ents. If any have settled in these open plains, it would likely be the Entwives, who value open land to plant and tend their great gardens. The Entwives, the Elves say, know the secrets of the growing things. DC: 90​
    [X] Plan Up and Comers By Moonlight
    -[X] The Starmoon: When your elven visitors speak of the Moon, they speak also of Ithildin, the starmoon, the script of living light with which they write upon their blades and their doors and their armor, which protects them always and garbs them in the light of the moon. You could learn of Ithildin, though it would take time, they say. (May Upgrade The Moon Way to The Path of the Moon)
    --[X] Send Belen: You send your brother Belen to study and learn this art from the elves. (Belen will leave for 3 turns, significant chance of success)
    -[x] The Defiance: Mayhap you cannot lift the shadow from their hearts, but you may be able to turn them against it. Your people did not give in for a dozen lifetimes of the Great Flight -- why should they succumb to fear now that it is ended. The Enemy has followed us here -- so what? The Enemy is master of the world -- so what? We will spit in his eye all the same, and go grinning to our deaths. (???)
    --[X] Leader Baran
    -[X] The Sons Of Fire: You ask the Feanorians to aid you in all your endeavors for the next year, to lend their wisdom and expertise to all your tasks. (The Ambarussa bonus is doubled next year, and applies to Diplomacy and Combat as well)
    -[x] Trade With Them: Your people remember the dwarves your ancient fathers met, a short and stout people with a love of coin. If their cousins are anything similar, they will value wealth over flinging dirt. (-1 Wealth)
    -[X] Speak With Marach: You invite the boisterous and golden-haired leader of the tall men to speak with you in your newly-built home.
    -[x] There are some among the Wise whose voices are deep and whose words cut the soul with their beauty. Their music is an echo of the First. (Chance of recruiting a bard leader)
    --[X] Leader Belen
    -[X] The Wise are petitioning you to build a hall where they could gather and speak their stories.
    -[X] You increase the number of hunters out on the plains, that you might gather more food this year. (Hunters gather more food)(Increased Hunter influence)(The tribe is less defended)
    -[X] You attempt to construct a great Hall in your burgeoning village, to serve as your seat and the seat of your children.
    -[x] You have seen the massive herds of the House of Marach, for you are not blind. You would have herds such as these. You begin attempting to increase the size of your people's herds.
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For some reason when I edited the tally to the latest votes, it made this new one.

Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by EVA-Saiyajin on Aug 19, 2019 at 6:31 PM, finished with 243 posts and 27 votes.
  • [X] Plan Action Economy Development
    [X]Plan Narn I Chîn Marach
    [X] Plan Recruiting Heroes, Keeping to the Old Ways
    [X] Plan Phone a Finrod
    [X] Plan To Fight Fear
    [x] Plan Hunting is All
    -[x] You tell Belen and the Wise to study the arts of the Valar themselves, and perhaps find a path that even the elves have not walked. (???)
    -[x] The Defiance: Mayhap you cannot lift the shadow from their hearts, but you may be able to turn them against it. Your people did not give in for a dozen lifetimes of the Great Flight -- why should they succumb to fear now that it is ended. The Enemy has followed us here -- so what? The Enemy is master of the world -- so what? We will spit in his eye all the same, and go grinning to our deaths. (???)
    --[X] Belen
    -[x] The Wood: Amras, youngest among the Feanorians, once rode on great hunts with the Huntsman of the Valar himself, Orome. He has a few tricks he can show even your hunters. The twin sons of Feanor know how to drive their prey before them, and how to bend the wood to their will. (Chance of learning a Cultural Lore)(Lose the Ambarussa bonus next turn)
    --[X] Halbeth​
    -[x] Trade With Them: Your people remember the dwarves your ancient fathers met, a short and stout people with a love of coin. If their cousins are anything similar, they will value wealth over flinging dirt. (-1 Wealth)
    --[X] Baran​

    -[x] Greet Them: You send someone to welcome your cousins to the new land.
    -[x] Gift Them: You send someone with a few elven trinkets as a gift. Beauty like this does not exist beyond the mountains. Hopefully they will be suitably impressed.
    -[x] There are some among the Wise whose voices are deep and whose words cut the soul with their beauty. Their music is an echo of the First. (Chance of recruiting a bard leader)
    --[x] Belen(free action)
    -[x] The Hunters are petitioning you to build a lodge on the outskirts of the village where they can gather, clean their kills, and set out on rangings.
    -[x] You encourage the Hunters to get closer to the Elven visitors and learn their knowledge.
    -[X] You increase the number of hunters out on the plains, that you might gather more food this year. (Hunters gather more food)(Increased Hunter influence)(The tribe is less defended)​
    -[x] You have seen the massive herds of the House of Marach, for you are not blind. You would have herds such as these. You begin attempting to increase the size of your people's herds.
    [X] Plan Healing Moon/Too Late To Gain Supporters​
    -[X] Invite the dark-haired men to join you in Estolad, and swear themselves to the elves. (Increased relation with Finrod, some of the new men may share Estolad with you)​

    --[X] Baran​

    -[X] The Land Above The Rivers: The wide land called Thargelion is open and lush, and may well be home to some few of the ents. If any have settled in these open plains, it would likely be the Entwives, who value open land to plant and tend their great gardens. The Entwives, the Elves say, know the secrets of the growing things.​
    --[X] Halbeth​
    -[X] The Moon Way: In the darkest days of the Great Flight, when the Shadow stretched across the world and the power of the Enemy prevailed upon all, those who could walk without sound and move without sight were valued above all others. This is the way they kept silent from the Orcs and outran the Wargs, in the light of the moon in older days. The Elves know the power of the Moon, whom they call Ithil, and name it among the great enemies of the Shadow.​
    -[X] The Healing Way: An old crone named Imarwen remembers her mothers' mothers tales of the grasses and the herbs and the words which could heal, which could quicken womb and help bone mend. The words have all but been forgotten, and the skill is all but dead. Belen learns it from her. The elves know something of this way, and say in their songs that Este, the gentlest of the Valar, weeps for the suffering of mortals, and aids them as she can.​
    -[X] The hunters say that there seems to be great abundance in the forests to your north. They wish to explore it.​
    -[X] The hunters have found a mighty boar that rampages through the forests, and has already slain two men. You declare a Great Hunt to find and kill the boar, promising that the man who slays it will be rewarded with extra food and a celebration in his honor. (Requires two months of food)​
    -[X] You begin the construction of small, temporary homes to shelter your people. Little more than hovels of mud and wood, they are still more than you have ever known.​
    --[X] Request Elven Aid (may owe the elves)​

    -[X] You give extra rations to the elderly and the Wise, that the memory of where we have been does not fade before it can be passed on. (Requires an extra month of food)(Increase the influence of the Wise)​

    -[X] You increase the number of hunters out on the plains, that you might gather more food this year. (Hunters gather more food)(Increased Hunter influence)(The tribe is less defended)​
    [X] The hunters have found a mighty boar that rampages through the forests, and has already slain two men. You declare a Great Hunt to find and kill the boar, promising that the man who slays it will be rewarded with extra food and a celebration in his honor. (Requires two months of food): DC 150​
    -[X] Invite the dark-haired men to join you in Estolad, and swear themselves to the elves. (Increased relation with Finrod, some of the new men may share Estolad with you): DC 110​
    -[X] The Land Above The Rivers: The wide land called Thargelion is open and lush, and may well be home to some few of the ents. If any have settled in these open plains, it would likely be the Entwives, who value open land to plant and tend their great gardens. The Entwives, the Elves say, know the secrets of the growing things. DC: 90​
    [X] Preparing for the future
    [X] Plan Up and Comers By Moonlight
    -[X] The Starmoon: When your elven visitors speak of the Moon, they speak also of Ithildin, the starmoon, the script of living light with which they write upon their blades and their doors and their armor, which protects them always and garbs them in the light of the moon. You could learn of Ithildin, though it would take time, they say. (May Upgrade The Moon Way to The Path of the Moon)
    --[X] Send Belen: You send your brother Belen to study and learn this art from the elves. (Belen will leave for 3 turns, significant chance of success)
    -[x] The Defiance: Mayhap you cannot lift the shadow from their hearts, but you may be able to turn them against it. Your people did not give in for a dozen lifetimes of the Great Flight -- why should they succumb to fear now that it is ended. The Enemy has followed us here -- so what? The Enemy is master of the world -- so what? We will spit in his eye all the same, and go grinning to our deaths. (???)
    --[X] Leader Baran
    -[X] The Sons Of Fire: You ask the Feanorians to aid you in all your endeavors for the next year, to lend their wisdom and expertise to all your tasks. (The Ambarussa bonus is doubled next year, and applies to Diplomacy and Combat as well)
    -[x] Trade With Them: Your people remember the dwarves your ancient fathers met, a short and stout people with a love of coin. If their cousins are anything similar, they will value wealth over flinging dirt. (-1 Wealth)
    -[X] Speak With Marach: You invite the boisterous and golden-haired leader of the tall men to speak with you in your newly-built home.
    -[x] There are some among the Wise whose voices are deep and whose words cut the soul with their beauty. Their music is an echo of the First. (Chance of recruiting a bard leader)
    --[X] Leader Belen
    -[X] The Wise are petitioning you to build a hall where they could gather and speak their stories.
    -[X] You increase the number of hunters out on the plains, that you might gather more food this year. (Hunters gather more food)(Increased Hunter influence)(The tribe is less defended)
    -[X] You attempt to construct a great Hall in your burgeoning village, to serve as your seat and the seat of your children.
    -[x] You have seen the massive herds of the House of Marach, for you are not blind. You would have herds such as these. You begin attempting to increase the size of your people's herds.
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HastyGaming said:
Firstly I just really dislike The Defiance as our answer to the Great Fear because it's honestly not hopeful, it's fatalistic and I find it quite depressing. There's no greater hope to it, no optimism, nothing to suggest the future or the world will ever get better, simply an acceptance that if we're going to die we might as well die fighting. We can do better.
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Just because you see Defiance as fatalistic doesn't mean it is to many of us. The world is Morgoth's Ring and will be until the end of time. The Shadow will never lift from it until Dagor Dagorath and that is a fact. It's not something we can escape. But neither can we hope to forever look at the stars and hope there is a kinder world beyond death, because we don't know that for sure.

So why shouldn't we defy it and the suffering it wants to bring to us? Why shouldn't we make our stands and if it does end with our death, why not make it grinning and spitting in its face? There is something about this that speaks of enduring hope and faith in the strength of our hearts and spirits to struggle and overcome the fear and darkness that wants to weaken and enslave us.

The world is imperfect and flawed and sorrowful, but the race of Men will struggle and fight and overcome all trials and tribulations. We are here and we are here to stay and if we must be defiant to achieve happiness and joy, we'll do it.
 
Appirinia said:
Just because you see Defiance as fatalistic doesn't mean it is to many of us. The world is Morgoth's Ring and will be until the end of time. The Shadow will never lift from it until Dagor Dagorath and that is a fact. It's not something we can escape. But neither can we hope to forever look at the stars and hope there is a kinder world beyond death, because we don't know that for sure.

So why shouldn't we defy it and the suffering it wants to bring to us? Why shouldn't we make our stands and if it does end with our death, why not make it grinning and spitting in its face? There is something about this that speaks of enduring hope and faith in the strength of our hearts and spirits to struggle and overcome the fear and darkness that wants to weaken and enslave us.

The world is imperfect and flawed and sorrowful, but the race of Men will struggle and fight and overcome all trials and tribulations. We are here and we are here to stay and if we must be defiant to achieve happiness and joy, we'll do it.
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Even then, Defiance - meaning no support from elves or anyone else - is likely the hardest path, by far, and going for it should be done with maximum effort.

I mean, I am not sure I agree with you on it - I am not sure I agree with one philosophy of coping with it, as opposed to everyone having something of their own - but going for path of least support from others in developing it should be done only with all the resources we can afford - Baran, Belen, Wise, give wise more food, whatever.

edit: wait we cannot send wise on it rip; at least I hope we can indeed team up the leaders?
[X] Plan Recruiting Heroes, Keeping to the Old Ways
[X] Plan To Fight Fear
 
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ctulhuslp said:
mean, I am not sure I agree with you on it - I am not sure I agree with one philosophy of coping with it, as opposed to everyone having something of their own - but going for path of least support from others in developing it should be done only with all the resources we can afford - Baran, Belen, Wise, give wise more food, whatever.
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There is something that reeks of pride in choosing Defiance and I'm aware of it. But without struggle, without hardship Man can't grow, can't change. Sure they can fail and sometimes spectacularly, but they can also reach dizzying heights.

And I don't mind that not everyone agrees with it, but I also don't think it's a fatalistic choice. Or a hopeless one. And I find the need to defend it without actually trying to change anyone's mind.

I only hope to make them see it from my own perspective, even if they still disagree with it.
 
Okay, so, from what I can find, even if we somehow happened to encounter one of the Silmarils, no-one in our faction could even touch it anyway, because it burns mortals.

...why the hell would anyone want to keep a death-stone that they knew would bring a berserk elven nation down on their head?
 
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