Even Further Beyond [Complete]

My suggestions for our bonus spell:

Knowledge Battle that gives us minor precog for the duration of the fight
Seeming Battle that actively scrambles our opponents senses for the duration of the fight
Space Sigil that we can use for short, fast teleports mid-fight, to aid with dodging
Stone Sigil that attempts to weaken the physical integrity of the target Probably not helpful after all.
Force Battle that applies a simple, straight forward crushing/twisting/ripping force on the target should be focused on something esoteric, like EAN manipulation
Time Sigil that creates a temporal stutter, resetting the target to how it was a small amount of time ago
Blood Sigil to attempt to siphon blood (or equivalent) from a target
Essence Sigil which taps into Nameless's cultivation base to create a weak Comprehensive Attack against the target

e-

Maybe also just pick up Azure Flare, if we can?
 
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We want directive offensive or defensive ability so it gets buffed by 4 stages.

Force Battle Diagram might be our best bet there.
 
We want directive offensive or defensive ability so it gets buffed by 4 stages.

Force Battle Diagram might be our best bet there.
Fair. Does my Force Battle ripper diagram seem reasonable, or do you have something else in mind?
 
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Remember, any attack without a heavy magical / essential component is not going to be too relevant past Stage 15, Infinite Physical Strength!
 
Ah, right. So maybe some kind of energy attack for the Force Battle. We know that thanks to Amplification that Force can interact with the EAN. Is there a way to implement that on Battle scale, offensively or defensively?

e-

A pure 'weakening' Stone sigil is also probably not great either. Not sure how to bend that to our aid, though.
 
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You may end up with 11 BPs, in which case you should consider spending the last BP on something. Maybe a write-in spell, especially if Distillation wins? Nameless still has plenty of partially relevant Diagram slots unfilled. Remember that Tyranshal's Potentiation doesn't work on most Grand Diagrams!

Would a Fate Battle spell provide something useful, now that we lost Fated Overlord?

Would any transmutation effects from the Stone sign get their roll-off buffed by four stages from EFB Distillation?

Can a Death battle spell provide any effects not covered by the Scepter? Like a Mystic Eyes of Death Perception type effect, for instance?

Can we make a Seeming spell that traps people inside their own minds?
 
Well, with High Hand of the Norns eliminated now, and the revelation that "No actually when you did this you didn't actually have Fated Overlord".

Was I right in how it was a poisoned pill? A clearly obvious wincon that's really just going to sow the seeds of our own demise?
 
So, what are people who were previously voting for Ring thinking of voting for?
 
A couple things:

You don't have Fated Overlord anymore.
You may end up with 11 BPs, in which case you should consider spending the last BP on something. Maybe a write-in spell, especially if Distillation wins? Nameless still has plenty of partially relevant Diagram slots unfilled. Remember that Tyranshal's Potentiation doesn't work on most Grand Diagrams!
Hm... if there's time for it to take effect, Palimpsest of the Nameless One - Warmain Form would grant 0.79 Stages of bodily power at the cost of making Nameless look like a monster. Might not be so high a price.
 
What would Fated Overlord have to do with that?

If you'd had Might Nameless would have won no problem. I did say as much.

Because you established a while back that Fate stuff tends to require you to take up Dooms just to turn the key? And how even EFBs in the Fate Sign tend to be shackled in some way?

Like, look at this.

"
The Sign of Fate, in consideration of A Charmed Life, seems willing to give you one on the house; access to the Sign and one spell at nearly half the speed of a Standard Sign, with no further costs. Future Fate spells may not be so kind. This discount does not apply if you wait until after your Charmed Life expires."

Then we look at the EFB for taking Forge of the Nameless One.

"
-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond [10 Beyond Points]: Instead forge Artifacts as if your essence were equal to twice that of the greatest elf-smith ever to live (2x Ascendant Titan); every Artifact you forge counts as a Magnum Opus. You are Doomed; complete twelve Artifacts and it shall come due. "

AKA "Yeah this is great and amazing but it's also capped at Stage 8/9 effective, and if you forge 12 you're fucked"

In other words, you established that the Fates can push back on abuse of their Sign, no matter how talented you are. In light of that, a Fate sign power that apparently makes us automatically win seemed... Astonishingly suspect?

EDIT:
Also, honestly? EFB Palimpset probably would be superior for the purpose of just straight up winning the game. Form of Vehemence would put Nameless up to Combat Rank 17 or so for all practical purposes (Which means Suzhen is up to 17.5, more than enough to dunk Kong if that's what it takes, especially with her Dao being his counter), as well as give him effectively perfect combat logic and battle techniques. Superior to Distillation's mere +2.
 
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Because you established a while back that Fate stuff tends to require you to take up Dooms just to turn the key? And how even EFBs in the Fate Sign tend to be shackled in some way?

Like, look at this.

"
The Sign of Fate, in consideration of A Charmed Life, seems willing to give you one on the house; access to the Sign and one spell at nearly half the speed of a Standard Sign, with no further costs. Future Fate spells may not be so kind. This discount does not apply if you wait until after your Charmed Life expires."

Then we look at the EFB for taking Forge of the Nameless One.

"
-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond [10 Beyond Points]: Instead forge Artifacts as if your essence were equal to twice that of the greatest elf-smith ever to live (2x Ascendant Titan); every Artifact you forge counts as a Magnum Opus. You are Doomed; complete twelve Artifacts and it shall come due. "

AKA "Yeah this is great and amazing but it's also capped at Stage 8/9 effective, and if you forge 12 you're fucked"

In other words, you established that the Fates can push back on abuse of their Sign, no matter how talented you are. In light of that, a Fate sign power that apparently makes us automatically win seemed... Astonishingly suspect?

EDIT:
Also, honestly? EFB Palimpset probably would be superior for the purpose of just straight up winning the game. Form of Vehemence would put Nameless up to Combat Rank 17 or so for all practical purposes (Which means Suzhen is up to 17.25), as well as give him effectively perfect combat logic and battle techniques. Superior to Distillation's mere +2.
This all valid, but I suspect that the fact that High Hand requires the incorporation of Truth (an ideal which is fundamentally parallel to the operation of Fate, not subordinate to it) might mitigate it somewhat?
 
This all valid, but I suspect that the fact that High Hand requires the incorporation of Truth (an ideal which is fundamentally parallel to the operation of Fate, not subordinate to it) might mitigate it somewhat?

Maybe, but it's also True that Fate has the right to impose a cost beyond mere hard work on a project.

I would be entirely less than surprised if the cost they imposed is "The resources expended on manifesting this Ring in the first place have been borne, meaning that anyone can now forge the Ring of Might at this level of power"

But yes, is it wrong that I'm expecting that our enemies won't just hand us a cheat code that can surpass them? Especially since at the time of the forging we had not surpassed them yet?
 
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Also, honestly? EFB Palimpset probably would be superior for the purpose of just straight up winning the game. Form of Vehemence would put Nameless up to Combat Rank 17 or so for all practical purposes (Which means Suzhen is up to 17.5, more than enough to dunk Kong if that's what it takes, especially with her Dao being his counter), as well as give him effectively perfect combat logic and battle techniques. Superior to Distillation's mere +2.
I suspect that the sumblimation of physical force into infinity may interfere with Form of Vehemence being quite as strong, though I admit I don't have a super strong basis for it.

e-

Also, this,
True Alchemist Focus said:
The character's soul is transferred and embedded into the Runes comprising this Diagram, fused irrevocably into the body as a whole. The character risks annihilation if his body is ever fully destroyed, but True Regeneration now prevents death until every cell is obliterated.
could be an issue when we hit Tribulation, if we ever do. The immunity to esoteric effects channeled through the body might help, but at the same time, we don't even know if Tribulation counts as esoteric.
 
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I thought the text made it quite clear that it wasn't a trap option.
 
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Vehemence... really should have been suggested by us when we were considering how to spend our BP, because the stage boosts are equal to those offered by Might and it shores up Nameless' greatest deficiency, lack of skill to wield his power.

As for Might, it was pretty clearly not a trap. The Diagram is the magic of reason, dominion through comprehension. If you see part of Fate, you're bound by it and pay a terrible price, as our mentor did. But if you go Even Further Beyond, glimpse the whole skein, you can understand and - in doing so - master it. That's what made the option so poignant in the first place; it's the triumph of the Diagram over Fate.
 
I guess I'll just ask outright: @Rihaku was the exclusion of EFB Palimpsest from The Curtain Rises a matter of A) us not having thought of it first, B) some condition about our current state of cultivation invalidating it, C) a genuine oversight, or D) something else/a spoiler?
 
It was probably not included because it did not meet the thematic stuff Rihaku was going for with the three.
 
Fanwork##1026 Words

I'm giving my argument points to Xiaoling. Because someone has to.

Omake: "A fitting Sword"

Once upon a time, a corporate wage slave believed that life had strangled his inner child. It was all well and good to speak of grandiose dreams, but reality would inevitably dash their fragile bodies against the unforgiving reefs of 'facts' and 'compromises'. Bit by bit, one learned not to bash one's heads against the limits and try to work inside them instead. To adapt and avoid rather than conquer and overcome.

Coming to the new world had given Nameless an illusion of removing those limits. Physical laws were little more than a joke to the truly powerful in the new Realm, and an individual could grow to a scale that made society's opposition nigh irrelevant. Wasn't that what he'd always dreamed about in the heart of hearts where no one could look? To lead a grand and charmed life? To perform deeds worthy of being recorded in song? To matter?

Of course, soon he'd been disillusioned of the notion. There were still things one could and couldn't do, he'd told himself when failure hounded his steps and the deadline loomed ever closer. Maybe Nameless could have become a different man if he hadn't been taught otherwise by a lich that refused to lie down and die. It wasn't a question of power or ability, Baelixnaire had showed through action rather than words, but of how badly one wanted something.

His father had shaped Nameless' character in many ways, but he'd been defined by his teacher's vengeance.

Spiteful as Baenlixnaire had been, those lessons had been carved deeply into Nameless' mind. It wasn't something as quaint as believing in himself. No matter how much a mortal buoyed himself up, he'd still crumble before the might of a Yong. Impossible things were still impossible, and if one wanted to achieve greatness, preparation was necessary to close that vast gulf. But when it came to the last tiny step that separated failure from success, when all schemes crumbled and every card had been played, the lich had showed him that there was still a way forward.

Before Nameless' eyes, the Forge crumbled. The walls of his lavish palace split and tore apart, and the heavens themselves wept in envy at the sight that rose from the ashes of the first Grand Diagram he'd invented.

The Battlesuit itself hadn't changed greatly, other than morphing to more closely fit Suizhen's form, but in its hands it held the final creation of his Forge that had cost Nameless so much.

"Now you're both a mecha and a sword," he whispered as rain poured from above and slid down his cheeks, "never shall I create anything that could exceed your perfection."

"Sir?" Suizhen fidgeted, her Eyes riveted on the same sight that held his attention. "Are you... making it rain to make its creation more dramatic?"

"It's a fine Yong tradition that had been handed down for generations," he scoffed. "We'd earned that right."

"By getting rid of anyone who disagreed?" she joked in a rare display of levity.

Then she paused and her courage seemed to flee her.

"May I?" she asked timidly, still staring at the Artifact uncertainly.

"Suizhen, shut up and take your gift," Nameless ordered her in exasperation. "You're the only one who can use it anyway, so what are you waiting for?"

She finally stepped forward, letting the Battlesuit engulf her and gripping Rain in her right hand. Then she moved, and were he a swordsman, he would have prostrated himself on the spot, such was the captivating beauty of his greatest creation in motion. It went beyond mere violence and transcended into a realm that could cut apart fate and karma like flimsy strings.

Briefly, he felt a pang of regret at never getting the chance of seeing the other girls in the Suit again, but Suizhen deserved this and more.

Well, not that much more. She had already cost Nameless a great deal, any more and his wife would start suspecting him of infidelity. That Aurelia didn't already was a miracle in and of itself.

At last she stopped, halted in mid-motion and trembling, both from exhaustion and from a deeper conflict that had been fermenting for a while. Nameless had known it would come to this, but he still felt a measure of anxiety as she spoke tonelessly:

"I could kill him. I could do it right now," she breathed out. "It wouldn't even be difficult. I was made for this."

"Yes you could," the Yong heir acknowledged. "Even ignoring how your Dao counters his, you have enough advantages stacked up to win."

"Are you going to tell me that I shouldn't?" she shuddered, her voice still devoid of all emotion, though he knew it was a facade. "That I should spare him and let go?"

"I would be fairly hypocritical of me if I counseled against extracting your vengeance from Kong," Nameless answered wryly. "Not that I mind being a shameless hypocrite if it furthers my goals, but I'd already told you, I won't stand in your way if this is what you decide on."

"And I told Sir that I would never move against your word," Suizhen spoke, seeming to relax at his answer.

"So we seem to be at an impasse," Nameless mused. "I'm too wishy-washy to decide one way or another, and you're too obedient to go against even my unspoken wishes. How vexing."

"Killing the Patriarch would solve the problem, Sir," Suizhen suggested hopefully.

"Elves disapprove of genocide, and my wife is one if you'd forgotten. I'd be in the doghouse for ages. Maybe literally."

Suizhen pouted at the mention of Aurelia: "That's something I could solve for you as well, Sir. And as I'm sure you know, the Elves make an exception for Zang Kong. Because he's just that awful."

Sighing tiredly, Nameless wondered when his life had gone so wrong.

Then he remembered the Fates, and decided that he would simply add it to the list of things he'd taking out on them.

"We'll resolve the issue with Kong later," he nodded with all the magnanimousness of a chronic procrastinator. "For now, Suizhen, we storm the Heavens!"
 
I feel doubly reaffirmed that, regardless of whether Annihilation or Negotiation wins, or which of Distillation or Rain wins, I will be happy.
 
@Rihaku Tribulation, 0.7k

Nameless awoke, as he had done many times in this life, on a comfortable bed, next to his loving wife. Though neither he nor Aurelia needed sleep, not with any meaningful frequency at least, under the auspices of Heaven, dreams were a special gift, and one he could not help himself to indulge in on occasion. His latest one, however, was much more shocking, and violent, than normal. He dreamed of himself, perhaps another life he could have lead in the Winter Labyrinth. A life in which he turned against Heaven, even after learning of Kong's atrocity and of the tragedy of the Fate's binding. A life which paralleled the Truth, even in his mastery of his Ring.

He dispelled the brief sadness which came over his heart, then roused his wife so they could return to their daily business. Rebuilding the Empire was a monumental task, and it and its people deserved their attention.

Later that same day, Spring called them to ask if they and their entourage would like join her and her family for dinner. Similar calls hadn't be entirely uncommon since Nameless had broken them free of the bonds which held them to their Divine Mantles (which were not completely unlike the mental chains which held Titans to their Dao, as he'd discovered with his own cultivation). He quickly relayed mental messages to Aurelia, her family, Xiaoling, her father and mother, and her husband Sterimeon, Suizhen and the rest of her band of Heroes, as well his own father, mother, and younger brother. Little Jianhong was still only a child, not even as old as Nameless had been when he'd set out from home, but when he'd been born, Spring had said he would be greatly blessed by the coming Age and its prosperity. He received messages back almost instantly from everyone but his own family, who responded a few minutes, delayed by needing to disentangle themselves from the thorny memetic creature that Liefang and Zhengyi were tackling. Everyone was free this evening, and Nameless's powerful teleportation meant no one needed to worry about arranging transportation.

The dinner was, of course, literally divine. The Fates were wealthy beyond mortal imagining, even more so than the Yong if such a thing can be believed, and the joyous air that had permeated Heaven now that they were free of their calcified shells only enhanced the grandeur. The dinner ended up being more of a feast, as several of Spring and Nameless's guests had gone on to gather their own party of guests, and then again for another degree of separation. The palaces of Heaven were fit to hold uncountably more, though, and the festivities were great nonetheless, though Nameless couldn't help but feel confused, since he couldn't remember what they were celebrating (other than everybody happening to all have an open evening at once, which is something of a miracle in and of itself), despite his perfect and inviolate memory. Nonetheless, he reveled along with all his friends, enjoyed the stories from everyone he hadn't had the opportunity to hold a real conversation with in a long while, and shared his own, about his young brother and his burgeoning abilities, about his and Aurelia's work rebuilding the metaphysical foundations of the world, and more. It was immensely cathartic, and he and Aurelia both even were inspired to try a couple new possibilities with handling the transition of Ages.

The party continued for a while, but unfortunately even with the incredible combined temporal abilities of everyone involved, it couldn't go on forever. People had projects to return to, other people to see, undiscovered New Worlds to explore, all sorts of things. Eventually it was just Spring, Aurelia, and Nameless still in the main hall, when Spring put on an oddly sad face. Before he and his wife returned to their home, Spring whispered, almost pleading in tone, "Please, don't choose to leave this behind." She smiled melancholically, before following her brother Summer to elsewhere in Heaven, while Nameless and Aurelia left to return to the Underworld.

Nameless felt a tear fall on his cheek, which he wiped away slowly. "What's wrong, honey?" Aurelia asked, sensing a genuine disturbance in her husband.

"I'm not sure." Nameless lied. "I had on odd dream last night. After all the joy of today, I think the feeling from it just caught up with me now."
 
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