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Even Further Beyond [Complete]

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Wolfy said:
Did you miss absolute immunity to esoteric effects used by weaker than us and ability to farm Reality Effects?
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Step 1: Pick some rando
Step 2: Necromancer them up to Grand Solipsist (For their best Reality Effect)
Step 4: Have them use their Reality Effect on you and crush it
Step 5: Laugh and repeat

Higher quality Reality Effects could be gotten by some combination of choosing exceptional individuals, helping our intuition for Titanic Cultivation, developing a Mask* for it that allows that, resurrecting interesting Cultivators ect.

It's disgustingly powerful and versatile.

*for a real kek, develop a Titanic path to teach people to be their best selves and then crush their efforts to show how even that is meaningless to us
 
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[X] High Hand of the Norn [Fate, Battle]
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs]

[x] Negotiation

For skele-dad!
 
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Would KZ while sleeping count as helpless? Provided that setting him to Loyalty 8 wouldn't be blocked by his understanding of Truth.
 
Da Boyz said:
Would KZ while sleeping count as helpless? Provided that setting him to Loyalty 8 wouldn't be blocked by his understanding of Truth.
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"Yo Kong, you gonna get few stages and ability to control essence at will for small price of being loyal to me"

"Say no more fam!"

Turning Kong into omega vampire can only go right, i'm sure.
 
DkArthas said:
Anyway, let's remember our greatest weakness right now, our vulnerability to the destruction of this world's Empires. We have ignored options that would have given us the power to resist it so far. Let's not ignore this one too.
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Hey, you know what would be really good for defending the Empire? Minions loyal to us that are only one stage below ours. Same for Aurelia and the Elven Nation.

DkArthas said:
All one has to do is destroy the empires to kill us, and considering how strong Kong is, it would be trivial for him to do so, potentially even while fighting us. I would prefer negotiating with him once we have become immune to our lose condition.
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C'mon, this is the guy who was perfectly fair to us despite being massively more powerful. You can at least attribute some good faith to him.

Rihaku said:
Assuming the Fates' Heavenly forms are stage 15.9 and Zang Kong is stage 16.4, Might offers the most comprehensive coverage + reliable disposal of enemies, Rain offers overwhelming strength to roflstomp but somewhat lower versatility, and Distillation has plenty of synergies and side benefits but a potentially chancy fight against Zang Kong.
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So Distillation would work best with Negotiate, it seems. Would he risk a fight against us and Suizhen only if we would stop him from progressing, or does he have any other inflexible positions?
 
Rihaku said:
Well, raw power is pretty important to Nameless right now, since he'd prefer to realize his objectives without triggering Immortal Tribulation at all if possible. That would minimize the risk of some unforeseen complication, after all he doesn't know of anyone who's successfully become an Immortal before. Therefore it would behoove you to consider the relative power levels of the options:

Tyranshal's Distillation [EFB]: 14 + 2 = 16 Stages for Nameless + heavily augmented buff spells (Quickening x14), 16.75 for Battlesuit Wielder
Rain [EFB]: 14 + 4 = 18 (!) Stages for Suizhen + Bodyguard Effect
Might [EFB]: 14 + 3 = 17 Stages for Nameless + Immune to Loss Condition, 17.5 for Battlesuit Wielder
Rain [FB] + Distillation [FB]: 14 + .75 + 1 = 15.75 Stages for Nameless, 16.25 for Suizhen

Assuming the Fates' Heavenly forms are stage 15.9 and Zang Kong is stage 16.4, Might offers the most comprehensive coverage + reliable disposal of enemies, Rain offers overwhelming strength to roflstomp but somewhat lower versatility, and Distillation has plenty of synergies and side benefits but a potentially chancy fight against Zang Kong. Taking two FBs alone would leave you in a precarious situation, potentially forcing Nameless to attempt Immortal Awakening after all.
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Could we quickly make some offensive Sign spell that scales directly with our power level so we can get level 20 offensive spells.

Because that sounds hilarious.
 
FB Tyranshal:

Should be sufficient for surviving Tribulations, especially with battlesuit. Caveat: Tribulations collateralling the world still kills him from ending the Age.

Might be sufficient for beating the Fates.

Likely insufficient for beating Kong.

Could be enough for Immortal Ascension if Suizhen wears the battlesuit and does space voodoo to keep the Tribulations away from fragile everything.

EFB Tyranshal:

Tribulations: as FB, but much safer.

Easily beats Fates.

Should be able to erase Kong in his cocoon with boosted spell.


FB Rain:

Doesn't help with Tribulations.

Boost seems a bit low for safely taking on the Fates.

Insufficient for beating Kong.

This one seems inadequate for any of its intended applications. Only works if taken together with FB Tyranshal.

EFB Rain:

Puts Suizhen at a minimum of Stage 18, trivializing dealing with the Fates and Zhang and probably makes her able to protect us from Tribulations too. Makes her the best ruler ever too so Nameless can fully focus on being lazy.

Destroys Thrice-Great; no more artifacts. Though killing the Fates might disable artifact creation anyway.

Viable, though the loss of artificing and a permanent spell slot is unpalatable. This is Xianxia, after all. Ascension only means that you are now the lowest of the low in the next higher realm.


EFB Ring:

Sufficient power for Tribulations, Fates, and Kong. Esoteric-Bullshit-Immunity. Fixes Nameless' end-of-Age loss condition if he's stronger than the Fates.

Doesn't benefit Immortal Cultivation. Doesn't hurt it either.

The big drawback is its corrupting influence. Hiding it from the rabble should be trivial, but can it turn Nameless' loved ones against him?
 
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BrainInAJar said:
Hey, you know what would be really good for defending the Empire? Minions loyal to us that are only one stage below ours. Same for Aurelia and the Elven Nation.



C'mon, this is the guy who was perfectly fair to us despite being massively more powerful. You can at least attribute some good faith to him.



So Distillation would work best with Negotiate, it seems. Would he risk a fight against us and Suizhen only if we would stop him from progressing, or does he have any other inflexible positions?
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Kong is the Elder beast of Reason. I trust him to take whatever action is more efficient at helping him attain his goals. Expecting anything else from him seems foolish.
 
Also
Rain [FB] + Distillation [FB]: 14 + .75 + 1 = 15.75 Stages for Nameless, 16.25 for Suizhen
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Pretty sure Suizhen would have total 1.25 bonus to her stage(0.5 from suit and 0.75 from sword) for total of 17 - which should be more than enough here.

E: Ah, you included that buff into Namless part of the thing, never mind.
 
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Holy shit, I'd forgotten how tempting and awesome Rihaku power votes can be. Those are all super awesome options. Giving best girl the most awesome sword to ever sword and making her able to protect us even if she's in another realm of existence would be sweet as heck, but it requires a big sacrifice and besides... becoming fucking CAIN is just too good. We are ensured loyal minions that always remain somewhat relevant to our current power level. No matter how high we rise, we can elevate those we like to being just one stage below us. I also like what kind of legacy it leaves behind, compared to just making a badass sword for one person.

We are an Overlord, it's about time we get an army.

[X] Tyranshal's Distillation [Blood, Battle]
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs]
 
Well, it's a Ring.

Ring Effects can penetrate through otherwise flawless defenses, like being literally incapable of conceiving a given topic.
 
Alectai said:
Well, it's a Ring.

Ring Effects can penetrate through otherwise flawless defenses, like being literally incapable of conceiving a given topic.
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Rihaku said:
You do live in the land of the incorruptible Elves, for your day-to-day life it's not that big a deal. You can just wear the Ring and have Suizhen kill your enemies for you, which was pretty much the original plan anyway.
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That seems to imply that we don't need to worry much as long as we live among the elves, which considering the sheer luxury they have, Nameless was probably going to do anyway.
 
Wolfy said:
Also

Pretty sure Suizhen would have total 1.25 bonus to her stage(0.5 from suit and 0.75 from sword) for total of 17 - which should be more than enough here.

E: Ah, you included that buff into Namless part of the thing, never mind.
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Does that include Sign of the Sword, which should provide an additional +1 Stage through combat skill? Or is that folded into the Battlesuit?

Alectai said:
Well, it's a Ring.

Ring Effects can penetrate through otherwise flawless defenses, like being literally incapable of conceiving a given topic.
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I wouldn't call Dao Effects absolute, they're just mandatory personality dictates. The real question is if the Ring's corruption is hostile mental influence that can bypass even maxed out Ego Barriers and Soul (True Incarnation could protect from this) if it's treated as a mundane personality change despite its obviously supernatural nature (Which I don't believe True Incarnation would protect from).

If it was the latter, that's broke as fuck dawg since the only way to block that is to be unable to change your nature in the same way as an undiminished Elf.
 
[X] Tyranshal's Distillation [Blood, Battle]
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs]

My first thought was that it would be a lot harder for the Fates to destroy the elvish empire (via tribulations or via some other method) if we make all the elves loyal super-vampires.

My second thought was that maybe giving millions (billions?) of people so much power that they can destroy the world by snapping their fingers is a bad idea. But hey, it'd be interesting at least.

Anyways, this power is cool. The ring is extremely tempting, and I wouldn't mind if it wins, but the drawbacks are a bit much.
 
Wolfy said:
You can literally not carry the fucking ring when she is around.
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You really think Rihaku will make it that easy to bypass the biggest drawback to a super busted power like that?

This thing is in the same category as a sword that can crush Kong and the Fates in exchange for permanently taking up a Grand Diagram slot while making us unable to forge any weapon ever again (also destroys Thrice Great).
 
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1986ctcel said:
You really think Rihaku will make it that easy to bypass the biggest drawback to a super busted power like that?

This thing is in the same category as a sword that can crush Kong and the Fates in exchange for permanently taking up a Grand Diagram slot while making us unable to forge any weapon ever again.
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The drawbacks of the Ring are inconvenient enough without being overstated. It can't be stolen, and while it's possible that it permanently warps minds, that's inconsistent with the way the side-effects from our existing Ring work.
 
The ring is problem alchemy; you turn the old problem (being too weak) into a new problem (subordinates backstabbing us). The trade-off is interesting but I'm holding out for a better option.

I'm pretty confident we'll end up wearing the ring full time as otherwise we could get killed by a surprise attack. I'm also pretty confident that some or all of our subordinates will end up corrupted; the Fates will insure it. Recall that it causes "Amoral opportunism of shocking magnitude", which is pretty strong language. The ring is the perfect backdoor in that it easily allows them to turn someone we trust into someone willing to go behind our back and work with the Fates or Kong in order to kill us.
 
Ultimately, only real option is one that lets us take True Immortal EFB.

It's not enough to merely win. We need to go Even Further Beyond and show fates that we could win even harder, we just choose not to.

We need to establish dominance.
 
Out of the three EFBs, Rain is actually the highest buff to base power, since it raises Suizhen 3.5 stages more above Nameless to 18.
(I think Nameless is still at 14.)
Then High Hand of the Norns raises Nameless to 17, and Suizhen to 17.5.
Finally, Tyranshal's Distillation raises Nameless to 16 and Suizhen to 16.75, but also allows Nameless to send out endless Stage 15 armies, though this is probably not relevant because xianxia only cares about top-level battle strength. However, it also quadruples the effects of Potentiation, so now non-direct attack and defense spells get 8 steps bonus. (the direct bonus hardly matters, because I think we only have Mordant Fire as an attack spell, and even boosted 4 stages, it is irrelevant.) Anyway, stack that on Prodigious Might and Quickening, I'm not sure anything else gets the buff.
So, Might gets boosted 8 steps, and at its base boosts 1 stage of physical strength... I have no idea how that works out, but it probably clears the otherwise fairly massive power difference between Distillation and the other options, by raising at least one extra stage of physical strength. Admittedly, a stage of physical strength is not the same as a holistic stage, but eh.
Anyway, I'm not... quite fond of dumping everything on Suizhen and being relatively helpless personally, though Rain makes her cloneable and all. I'm tempted by stereotypical Xianxia Ring of Might, but - stereotypical xianxia.
I suppose Distillation is the only way to go, then?
[X] Tyranshal's Distillation [Blood, Battle]
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs]
[X] Annihilation
E:tfw when I spend too much time rereading and get ninja'ed by Rihaku
 
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