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Even Further Beyond [Complete]

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Rihaku said:
Don't forget to propose your ideas for Beyond Point expenditure! Nameless needs to spend those Beyond Points or actually face Immortal Tribulation to generate the overwhelming strength needed to reliably defeat Zang Kong and the Fates.
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The Ring of Might sounds pretty rad in honesty. Given an EFB being spent on it, I assume it means it means we tapping into the Doom of the Labyrinth Empire and the fact that we are the Crux of Fate/Young Master/Whatever of the Age of Might, letting us push the thing through an EFB similar to how Banelixnaier let us get the Ring of Truth early?

That being said, Nameless could:

Design an FB Blood Battle Diagram that provides a stacking boost to Lenwyn's Prodigious Might.
Design an FB Force Diagram to provided the Kinetic Amplification Function of Tyranshal's Potentiation
Design a B or FB Palimpsest, and select Warmain

With Ring doubling, even an incredibly inefficient estimates of 0.5 combat stages for each spell would give Nameless a +1 Combat Spell Boost per spell, or about +3 overall.
 
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Spell Ideas
Grand Seeming (HUD) - To compile the truth into a lie, a grand seeming that lets Nameless see illusionary statistic data.
Grand Stone (The Endless Sign) - Shifting stone can take on many meanings provided the sigils produced are of sufficient value. There are probably some variations of this, like making sigils appear in any stone that can be found nearby or being able to create a wide variety of useful buildings with variations of the Stone sign.
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Battle Stone (Hell Pit) - Dig a hole deep enough to let the monsters below out.
Grand Stone (Trash Mountain) - Form a growing mountain out of trash to chuck enemies into.
 
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Rihaku said:
Hm. From a pragmatic PoV it's probably not the best use of Beyond Points to focus on this, but if you wait for the Necromancer to reach that level organically it could take a while.
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Oh, so it's possible? Can you say how much would it cost in BP, hypothetically? I mean, if we are worried about the fact sparing Kong sets a dangerous precedent...

Hmmm. I really want to kill him. But he might be useful still.

And yeah, Ring of Might sounds quite the shiny, and I'd doubt we'd build up another EFB for a long time; it's the best opportunity to forge it in a sense.

It would also be fitting, in a sense; To mend Might and Truth with Immortal Ascension; while being the wielder of their Rings. There may be some hidden synergy to it, perhaps.
 
Been awhile since I went back through the section where he offered the deal, but....

I'm not sure it's a good idea to let someone called "The Elder Beast of Reason" influence Nameless's actions by pointing out that maybe he has infinite invisible hostages that will die if we kill him.

Like...oooo~, that's so spooky, Zang Kong. What's next? Did you set up a dead man's switch that mysteriously explodes all cultivators and creates negative infinite utility? Gimme a break. Use all that Reason to come up with a better scam.
 
Rihaku said:
[ ] Negotiation - He is not your irrevocable enemy, and presently you will have the opportunity to bargain from a position of strength. When first you encountered Zang Kong he sought to make a deal. You can do no less than extend the same courtesy. If you can make of him an ally, there is no chance the Fates will be able to sneak in any sort of last-minute surprise. Give him the opportunity to protect the Empire he helped found, all those years ago.

*You can describe what you'd be willing to give, and the concessions you're looking for in return.
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Options:
1. Literally forge a redemption artifact?

I guess we could ask the Elves what ZK could do to redeem himself if we taking a moral course. Well, we have Aurelia as a benevolent adviser. What does she think?
 
BrainInAJar said:
Oh, so it's possible? Can you say how much would it cost in BP, hypothetically? I mean, if we are worried about the fact sparing Kong sets a dangerous precedent...
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3 BP and a custom Artifact if you're overwhelmingly more powerful than him (2+ Stages).

Shard said:
Options:
1. Literally forge a redemption artifact?
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He would have to consent to redemption by such a means, else it would just be mind control!

TwistedJester said:
How strong is Nameless actually at this point?
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~Stage 14ish in total power before the Battlesuit. You'd probably want to be at least Stage 17 to deal with an upper outlier Zang Kong. Stage 16 should be enough to handle the Fates easily.
 
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Rihaku said:
3 BP and a custom Artifact if you're overwhelmingly more powerful than him (2+ Stages).
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Rihaku said:
~Stage 14ish in total power. You'd probably want to be Stage 16-17 to deal with an upper outlier Zang Kong.
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Damn, so we need Stage 18-19 for plan Malfeas; That's harsh. It's basically a post Immortal Ascension thing. I imagine mind-controlling him into compliance would also be similarly challenging.

So for now

[X] Annihilation

When in doubt, always remember that they may become a threat. I might change my mind later though.
 
First thing first: happy to see you writing again Rihaku!

Considering this vote... I'm really not a fan of murdering what is possibly a literally infinite amount of people. On the other hand I'm not sure what form an agreement with Zang Kong should take...

I mean, if we want to have him protect the empire while we murder the fates, he'd have to come out of his cocoon prematurely which would cripple his cultivation permanently... I'm just not sure what we could offer that would make him agree to that... But honestly, if we can just get a binding agreement out of him to not hurt innocents and to never interfere with Nameless again, then I don't really care what else he ends up doing and I'm perfectly okay with him remaining alive.

In any case, I'm just not willing to gamble on ZK having lied about the infinite multitude he contains and so I'm voting for:

[X] Negotiation
 
TwistedJester said:
How strong is Nameless actually at this point?
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He's a xianxia protagonist so that means he's at least twice as strong as the plot requires to progress

Well, he's a Titan, so I guess somewhere around Super-Sayian?
Three quarters Son Goku?
One point one Vegetta?

His drill is the drill that will pierce the Endless Sky.
 
Zang Kong has earned his death through tyranny and crossing the wrong child; if the teeming infinities do exist, they can only blame their creator for failing them. Suizhen has paid her dues enough for that.
[X] Annihilation
 
There's only one answer.

[X] Scam him. Get him to release the souls entrapped in the Overgrowth with your oath to not attack him. Instead, Suizhen does the annihilating.

Can you tell that I don't have the foggiest idea of what's going on?
 
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In all honesty, couldn't we forge a Naturalism-Artifact to protect the Elven Nation? Doing such a thing should make it near-impossible for the Elven Nation to fall irregardless of what non-ZK forces are arrayed against it. And if we do kill ZK, then there no probable alignment of forces that could topple the Elven Nation.
 
[X] Annihilation
Rihaku said:
"Immaterial," Nameless countered. "A service is priced by its value to the consumer. You want to avoid the death of your nation. A bodyguard may not fight for more than a few seconds per decade. Does that mean he fails to secure payment for the rest? You're asking for my vigilance, my proximity, and my loyalty above that of clan and country. In return you offer a sum of resources that I find irrelevant and information that I could ask my grandpa about. Even were I to accept, I would lose face for doing so. If a Clan approached me with such an offer I would expel them for an offer so insultingly low. That your land is pleasant to reside in, is the only reason we are still talking."

"To you it may be a pittance," the Forge-Lord closed his eyes. "But it is what we can spare. Would you be responsible for the economic degradation of millions?"

"...I'm a scion of a Great Clan. Your grand-daughter and I spent enough to feed a billion mouths in six weeks of partying."
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Mostly, I am convinced by this.
 
Shard said:
In all honesty, couldn't we forge a Naturalism-Artifact to protect the Elven Nation? Doing such a thing should make it near-impossible for the Elven Nation to fall irregardless of what non-ZK forces are arrayed against it. And if we do kill ZK, then there no probable alignment of forces that could topple the Elven Nation.
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Well, you are protecting the elven lands by your physical presence, since Suizhen is going to be the one in the field. One of the perks of the Battlesuit!
 
formalAI said:
But honestly, if we can just get a binding agreement out of him to not hurt innocents and to never interfere with Nameless again, then I don't really care what else he ends up doing and I'm perfectly okay with him remaining alive.
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If we are going to negotiate with him, I definitely don't want to give him mercy for free. If we can't get retribution for those he has slain, then we should at least try to give some reparation for the Empire; y'know, maybe actually use that Titanic power for the benefit of the world? Or at least, use his intelligence and scientific work.

How viable would such an agreement be @Rihaku ?
 
So ummm ... are we even going to get any info on the plethora of Trans-Titanic effects we just got access to?

fun idea: give the Beast of Logic the suit. It ensures he remains more powerful than us(which he wants), while leading him to loyally and logically desire to continue improving Nameless's power.

Less fun but more plausible idea: the suit should give elven Binary Magic a hell of a lot of Essence to forge more artifacts from.

Hilarious but implausible idea: give the suit to dad and explain that ending the current Age will kill his son (who he is magically forced into loyalty to). Mostly hilarious due to Liefang's general personality and disposition
 
Overall I'm thinking I agree with the Annihilation arguments.

[X] Annihilation

I still think we should aim for another EFB, rather than two FBs or a handful of Bs, though.
 
[X] Annihilation

I find myself unable to care about theoretical trillions that can never be reached or interacted with, if they exist at all, and that got no screen time. Of course, I give it 50/50 odds we'll get a short POV switch to an inhabitant of him that bemoans his entire reality crumbling or something.
 
Look, as long as we don't get something like Karmic backlash from killing trillion trillion beings I don't care about them. They probably exist, yes and they have nothing to do with our fight but who will judge us but us? The Divines? The Accursed?
For us they are just a statistic as we don't know them and they might as well don't exist for us to care.

I also don't care about Annihilating him either. We already have infinite time and half of the existence if we beat the Divines and before long we will surpass him so completely that he will be like a gnat for us.
The best argument for Annihilating him is that Fates may use him against us but that can be also said in reverse, he can help us against the Fates.

So I will pass this vote unless needed.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Shard on Jul 29, 2019 at 10:11 PM, finished with 58 posts and 8 votes.
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