- Location
- Somewhere in the area
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
[X]…a communist. You'll explain your needs to your new friends, and arrange everything equitably.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
The Restless Dead Want YOU To Fight Necromancy
- Thread starter Wysteria
- Start date
[X]…a believer in feudalism. You have an idea about a king-and-the-land ritual to protect the town, if necessary, and rulers can institute taxes
Makes sense given Morgan's previous mention of vampires being for demanding respect and killing necromancers.
Other option is Podasism where the Space Comrades will eventually come and use their alien vegan blood substitute to solve the whole hunger issue.
Makes sense given Morgan's previous mention of vampires being for demanding respect and killing necromancers.
Other option is Podasism where the Space Comrades will eventually come and use their alien vegan blood substitute to solve the whole hunger issue.
DevilsAdvocate
Always follow the golden rule.
[X]…a believer in feudalism. You have an idea about a king-and-the-land ritual to protect the town, if necessary, and rulers can institute taxes.
DeepWaters
No one will be the wiser.
- Location
- Land of Spiders and Shipping Charts
[X]… a capitalist. You'll offer to trade your warding and your healing magics for human blood.
I would ideally prefer the "communist" option, particularly for this situation. On one hand, trading in warding and healing magic in a zombie apocalypse strikes me as a form of taking advantage of human desperation, like hiking the price of bread during a famine. Feudalism, on the other hand, commits us to a power grab that would probably pit us against the vampire hunters, the werewolves, and other unknown local factions who probably really like not having to bow to a vampire prince-- and that's assuming we wouldn't be stepping on the toes of an existing one. Frankly, I'm not convinced Morgan is either suited to that role or would actually want it, either. (Also, despite being fascinated with nobility and monarchies, Americans have an ingrained distaste for openly feudalistic structures in practice-- particularly if they're the peasants.)
That said, the "capitalist" one (which is really just standard bartering) just seems a lot more in-character given Morgan's past and choices thus far. Even if they might have been sympathetic to Marxism in the past (iirc it's entirely possible they came into contact with it pre-torpor), unless Lisa has an abnormally sympathetic opinion of communism they are going to have a very poor view of that ideology in practice.
Also, I suspect that being too open about what will happen if we aren't satiated will lead to more people leaving rather than willingly contributing to the cause. Perhaps I'm being cynical, but I imagine that being told someone you're trusting with your life is one lackluster blood drive away from killing everyone around them can do that.
I would ideally prefer the "communist" option, particularly for this situation. On one hand, trading in warding and healing magic in a zombie apocalypse strikes me as a form of taking advantage of human desperation, like hiking the price of bread during a famine. Feudalism, on the other hand, commits us to a power grab that would probably pit us against the vampire hunters, the werewolves, and other unknown local factions who probably really like not having to bow to a vampire prince-- and that's assuming we wouldn't be stepping on the toes of an existing one. Frankly, I'm not convinced Morgan is either suited to that role or would actually want it, either. (Also, despite being fascinated with nobility and monarchies, Americans have an ingrained distaste for openly feudalistic structures in practice-- particularly if they're the peasants.)
That said, the "capitalist" one (which is really just standard bartering) just seems a lot more in-character given Morgan's past and choices thus far. Even if they might have been sympathetic to Marxism in the past (iirc it's entirely possible they came into contact with it pre-torpor), unless Lisa has an abnormally sympathetic opinion of communism they are going to have a very poor view of that ideology in practice.
More practically, the "communism" option depends on the willingness of many individuals to volunteer their short-term well-being (getting drained by a vampire) for their long-term well-being (being protected by that vampire's magic while not getting murdered in a blood rage), and I never count on the altruism or long-term planning abilities of humanity at large. Most likely, a fatal proportion would assume that their needs can be covered by the contributions of others. Short of an emergency or true desperation, those individuals would understandably resist/resent contributing to something to which they feel no obligation for a benefit that was presented with no strings attached, particularly if they're already contributing in other ways. It would probably work out pretty well for a more tightly-knit group, but if we had that we'd have a shortlist of blood bond candidates and we're just too prone to picking up strays besides. Overall, I just don't trust that enough near-strangers will volunteer even a small part of their bodily autonomy for a community they have no reason to feel attached to yet, logically sound or no.
Cold-blooded as it is, the "capitalist" approach will filter out people not willing to "contribute" despite being entirely capable of it, and it'll also be more scalable in the long run-- one warding can cover a much larger number of "blood donors" than the blood it costs, if healing becomes a net loss somehow that's on us for dropping the ball (since we're ultimately in charge of keeping our people safe), and in the long run we can even offer warding and healing magic to people outside of our little sanctuary. Given no catastrophic emergencies, people will offer us as much as we need to protect them at first, and our margin of comfortably satiated will continue to grow as long as we can support the people for it. Its one practical (rather than moral) downside is that it sets us up as a rentier of necessities rather than a leader providing protection, which is not a reputation we particularly want.
Of course, that all assumes that we aren't planning to kick out anyone who refuses to contribute their blood. Not only is that probably not going to pan out well, but I just don't think Morgan is that coldheartedly pragmatic.
Cold-blooded as it is, the "capitalist" approach will filter out people not willing to "contribute" despite being entirely capable of it, and it'll also be more scalable in the long run-- one warding can cover a much larger number of "blood donors" than the blood it costs, if healing becomes a net loss somehow that's on us for dropping the ball (since we're ultimately in charge of keeping our people safe), and in the long run we can even offer warding and healing magic to people outside of our little sanctuary. Given no catastrophic emergencies, people will offer us as much as we need to protect them at first, and our margin of comfortably satiated will continue to grow as long as we can support the people for it. Its one practical (rather than moral) downside is that it sets us up as a rentier of necessities rather than a leader providing protection, which is not a reputation we particularly want.
Of course, that all assumes that we aren't planning to kick out anyone who refuses to contribute their blood. Not only is that probably not going to pan out well, but I just don't think Morgan is that coldheartedly pragmatic.
Also, I suspect that being too open about what will happen if we aren't satiated will lead to more people leaving rather than willingly contributing to the cause. Perhaps I'm being cynical, but I imagine that being told someone you're trusting with your life is one lackluster blood drive away from killing everyone around them can do that.
Last edited:
will408914
(slouching towards bethlehem)
- Location
- California
[X]…a believer in feudalism. You have an idea about a king-and-the-land ritual to protect the town, if necessary, and rulers can institute taxes.
avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
[X]…a believer in feudalism. You have an idea about a king-and-the-land ritual to protect the town, if necessary, and rulers can institute taxes.
- Location
- Somewhere!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X]…a communist. You'll explain your needs to your new friends, and arrange everything equitably.
- Location
- Rapidly approaching your location.
- Pronouns
- Any/Morb
- Location
- USA
I'm also disappointed that the communist option isn't
[]…a communist. You'll explain your needs to your newfriendscomrades, andarrange everything equitablySEIZE THE MEANS OF PRODUCING BLOOD FROM LITERAL AND FIGURATIVE PIGS.
smh @Wysteria huge turn off
I didn't want to accidentally make a post-1900 reference so I kept it simple, sorry~
- Location
- Jersey
My personal leanings on economics aside, I don't think Communism works with vampires. Humans live, make blood, and die. Vampires die, take blood, and have an unlife potentially forever. Those seem like irreconcilable class differences. Morgan is already the landed property owner, already giving orders, already thinking of people as theirs, and already has the ability to enter and manipulate people's minds. Morgan is not a member of the proletariat.
That aside, how equitable can we even make it? If kids can't hunt zombies do they need to give more blood to make it up? What about Bruce and Claudia's kid? They want to give blood so she won't have to. What about those people who don't have any useful survival skills? Or those people who do? Does their useful labor or lack thereof drive their blood donation levels? How would we deal with people who feel like they provide enough value without giving blood? What about if their value actually does surpass the value of blood donation? Lots of thorny problems.
[X]…a believer in feudalism. You have an idea about a king-and-the-land ritual to protect the town, if necessary, and rulers can institute taxes.
This one actually seems to fit with the ancient vampire thing, the delegation of responsibilities brought up in the meetings, and Morgan's leanings towards noblesse oblige. Plus going ritual power King over the whole town sounds pretty cool.
That aside, how equitable can we even make it? If kids can't hunt zombies do they need to give more blood to make it up? What about Bruce and Claudia's kid? They want to give blood so she won't have to. What about those people who don't have any useful survival skills? Or those people who do? Does their useful labor or lack thereof drive their blood donation levels? How would we deal with people who feel like they provide enough value without giving blood? What about if their value actually does surpass the value of blood donation? Lots of thorny problems.
[X]…a believer in feudalism. You have an idea about a king-and-the-land ritual to protect the town, if necessary, and rulers can institute taxes.
This one actually seems to fit with the ancient vampire thing, the delegation of responsibilities brought up in the meetings, and Morgan's leanings towards noblesse oblige. Plus going ritual power King over the whole town sounds pretty cool.
Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
[X]…a believer in feudalism. You have an idea about a king-and-the-land ritual to protect the town, if necessary, and rulers can institute taxes
I don't believe that capitalism is taking advantage of the situation, since there are magical universities out there. But that said, a part of having an ancient vampire as a PC is having equally ancient beliefs.
I don't believe that capitalism is taking advantage of the situation, since there are magical universities out there. But that said, a part of having an ancient vampire as a PC is having equally ancient beliefs.
DeepWaters
No one will be the wiser.
- Location
- Land of Spiders and Shipping Charts
In a famine, there are other sources of food, too. It doesn't matter unless you know of them and can access them with relative swiftness. If magic is not sufficiently rare, then there would be no point trying to keep it secret, and mages who specifically know warding or healing are going to be an even smaller subset of that. There's not exactly going to be much in the way of competition, even potentially, and most of those potential competitors probably aren't going to be keen to advertise themselves-- not everyone is an ancient vampire beyond coercion who also happens to need a large group of people to survive. For most people who are ignorant of magic, it's Morgan or nothing. Even if there was, it doesn't matter if you have competition when trying to find your competitors is in itself a dangerous task. It is not fair to sell food at premium prices to people who are starving, and it is not fair to sell safety at the price of bodily autonomy to people whose lives are in danger. It's one thing to have a fair choice, but "take the best chance you have to live or most likely die" isn't much of a choice.
For the record, I don't think feudalism is much better, though I do think it's better than capitalism in this context-- it at least involves a measure of responsibility and obligation on Morgan's side, and Morgan is fair, kindly, and grounded enough that they can probably avoid the pitfalls of styling themselves as a feudal lord (even if I'm doubtful of how suited they are to it). I also think it's close-minded to think that Morgan would believe in feudalism just because they're old enough to have experienced it. They were a medieval peasant first and then later a member of the bourgeoisie, recall. Neither of those options are more likely to believe in feudalism than in capitalism or communism; if anything, there are more arguments for them to not believe it than to believe it. Similarly, it is fair to argue that vampires would probably fall into a feudalistic structure organically due to their natural advantages over humanity-- but Morgan has specifically called out and taken a measure of pride in not conforming to vampiric stereotypes. Feudalism is not any more natural to them than the other options.
Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
I disagree. In our small town in the corner of nowhere important there are: a family of vampire hunters, a chosen one and their team, a pack of werewolves, a dryad, two human wizards and at least two vampires. Not counting us. And that's only who we found after a couple of days.
Magic isn't abundant, but it isn't scarce or rare either.
DeepWaters
No one will be the wiser.
- Location
- Land of Spiders and Shipping Charts
"Supernatural" is not the same as "mage". "Magic" isn't even the same as "mage". Neither does the number of mages matter, because what matters is how many of those people know warding and healing, which are not synonymous with other branches of magic-- similar to how organic chemists aren't competing in the same market as psychiatrists. By the actually relevant definitions, we have only two candidates, one of whom exists because we rolled a nat 100 on one of the Hendersons being hugely talented and the other of whom is a friend of the Chosen One.
Also, we live in upstate New York, in not-Ithaca. In real life, Ithaca is an Ivy League town, and it's strongly implied that not-Ithaca is, too. That isn't exactly New York City or Los Angeles, but it's not at all "small town in the corner of nowhere important".
Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
My point was that there are people who know it exists, there are people who know that Morgan isn't unique and there are people who can get in contact with proper specialists.
Also, your comparison with chemists and psychiatrists is incorrect, a much better comparison would be different types of chemists. And while they don't compete in the same market usually, they can replace each other in emergencies.
Rarity of Magic
- Location
- USA
Magic is rare. Reliable magical knowledge is buried in a sea of misinformation, madmen, and snake oil salesmen.
As the global population has soared, so to has the magical population, carried along with it. The most common creatures of magic are the 'cursed,' vampires, werewolves and the like. The sort of creature that primarily spreads by infection, not by reproduction. Regular every-day humans who know about the supernatural and fight it or try to pretend it doesn't exist are also among the most common members of magical communities. They may own a magical trinket or two, be able to do a cantrip, or have an uncle who is a werewolf.
The next most common category is the half-bloods. Elf-blooded, dwarf-blooded, troll-blooded and the like, they often have no idea their distant great-uncle went Underhill back in Ireland.
Gods and spirits such as dryads are common, but they are not as well-defended as the vampires and werewolves of the world, and so the survivors are better at hiding. The river has an opinion about the pollution you're pumping into his waters, but he probably will never tell you.
Magical talent tends to run in families, and is as common as half-bloods. However, rarity lies in the overlap of a strong magical talent, knowledge of the supernatural, and a reliable source of magical education. Rarest of the rare are powerful sorcerers and wizards, dragons, unicorns and other beasts of legend.
Schools of magic vary in both rarity and potential power. Witchcraft is common, accessible, and not prone to shaking the foundations of the world. Wizardry, in its variations of sorcery, ritual magic, and other esoteric schools, is powerful, inaccessible, and dangerous. Morgan is not certain how modern universities handle magic and technology, though they do appear to have some plans. Magic traditionally functions on a master-apprentice system of learning. A witch would not be able to reliably do wizardry, and a wizard could not reliably do witchcraft, even given all the required ingredients and instructions.
As the global population has soared, so to has the magical population, carried along with it. The most common creatures of magic are the 'cursed,' vampires, werewolves and the like. The sort of creature that primarily spreads by infection, not by reproduction. Regular every-day humans who know about the supernatural and fight it or try to pretend it doesn't exist are also among the most common members of magical communities. They may own a magical trinket or two, be able to do a cantrip, or have an uncle who is a werewolf.
The next most common category is the half-bloods. Elf-blooded, dwarf-blooded, troll-blooded and the like, they often have no idea their distant great-uncle went Underhill back in Ireland.
Gods and spirits such as dryads are common, but they are not as well-defended as the vampires and werewolves of the world, and so the survivors are better at hiding. The river has an opinion about the pollution you're pumping into his waters, but he probably will never tell you.
Magical talent tends to run in families, and is as common as half-bloods. However, rarity lies in the overlap of a strong magical talent, knowledge of the supernatural, and a reliable source of magical education. Rarest of the rare are powerful sorcerers and wizards, dragons, unicorns and other beasts of legend.
Schools of magic vary in both rarity and potential power. Witchcraft is common, accessible, and not prone to shaking the foundations of the world. Wizardry, in its variations of sorcery, ritual magic, and other esoteric schools, is powerful, inaccessible, and dangerous. Morgan is not certain how modern universities handle magic and technology, though they do appear to have some plans. Magic traditionally functions on a master-apprentice system of learning. A witch would not be able to reliably do wizardry, and a wizard could not reliably do witchcraft, even given all the required ingredients and instructions.
- Location
- Bologna
I don't think it is useful to think about competiton at all. Any caster capable of warding or healing is valuable enough during a zombie apocalypse, that they will have a large surplus of demand regardless of where they are. If there was one such caster in each city with more than 20.000 inhabitants, all of us would still be in such a high demand that we could ask virtually any price and have enough clientele for years.
(ugh i feel dirty talking like that about magic)
(ugh i feel dirty talking like that about magic)
- Location
- Bologna
@Wysteria, I'm unsure about something. You have talked about the importance of the Veil and the consequences for breaking it, saying something like Morgans efforts up until now would merit a punishment comparable to community service.
But at the moment the Veil seems to be in tatters, with a magical zombie apocalypse going on, and various supernatural powers trying to prevent/contain it. Would Morgan expect the supernatural community to still be operating under the assumption that the Veil is still salvageable, or that the supernatural community at large expects non-necromancy to still remain hidden?
Is the priority saving humanity or maintaining the masquerade?
Are such apocalypses much more common than one would assume, and thus not a cause for worry?
Does the supernatural community expect to be able to obliviate everybody once the crisis is averted?
But at the moment the Veil seems to be in tatters, with a magical zombie apocalypse going on, and various supernatural powers trying to prevent/contain it. Would Morgan expect the supernatural community to still be operating under the assumption that the Veil is still salvageable, or that the supernatural community at large expects non-necromancy to still remain hidden?
Is the priority saving humanity or maintaining the masquerade?
Are such apocalypses much more common than one would assume, and thus not a cause for worry?
Does the supernatural community expect to be able to obliviate everybody once the crisis is averted?
- Location
- USA
Morgan doesn't know what the greater supernatural community's opinion is. It would be nice if they had a governing body to consult, but as it is, everyone's guessing in the dark. Morgan's current strategy is 'tell people you're a vampire if it is already profoundly obvious, but don't announce it on television or in the newspaper. Someone confronting you about the Veil is a Tomorrow Problem.'
This depends. Morgan's is certainly saving (enough of) humanity, because Morgan depends on humanity and Morgan is well socialized. Morgan suspects other vampires will be thinking the same way, at least about needing humanity. Creatures like werewolves or dragons, however, would be fine without humanity. So it would depend on their individual levels of altruism and paranoia.
Potential apocalypses are common, and generally a job for heroes. Small-scale apocalypses of the old school, like Pompeii, are common. Global non-averted apocalypses? Not common. One might even call them startling.
DeepWaters
No one will be the wiser.
- Location
- Land of Spiders and Shipping Charts
The argument is moot now, but I feel compelled to say: No. The chosen examples were very deliberate. The whole point was that they cannot replace each other in emergencies. A technomancer is not a warder, a warder is not a diviner, and a diviner is not a blood mage. If I'd been speaking of blood mages vs healers, perhaps, but the schools of magic are clearly diverse enough to count as a supercategory akin to the entire field of science.
I only engaged that argument because lack of competition is integral for the comparison to hiking prices in a famine. Believe me, I totally agree.
- Location
- USA
Yes, but as with any attempt at magic without the proper knowledge, practice, or ingredients, it is more likely to backfire. For a minor ritual that's likely to be a small fire or a headache, but for a major ritual a backlash can be deadly. (More deadly for a human than for an ancient vampire, admittedly. Ancient vampires are not very squishy.)
Morgan is comfortable doing minor rituals in most schools except technomancy, given enough lead time to create them and experiment a little to make sure they won't blow up. It's just not the most efficient use of time/magical energy. Regular rituals... maybe. For instance, Morgan's zombie research is going to be trying to figure out a school of magic to efficiently attack these zombies from. Death? Curses? To be determined.