How Would You Prefer To Handle Unit Design?

  • Just let the QM do it.

    Votes: 15 30.0%
  • Just choose which techs to use.

    Votes: 23 46.0%
  • Choose which techs and extra features to use limited by size, cost, and upkeep.

    Votes: 9 18.0%
  • Choose individual (fictional) systems to equip units with. Limited by size, cost, upkeep, etc.

    Votes: 2 4.0%
  • None of these.

    Votes: 1 2.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
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Oh so 75%+5% means 80%, not some weird misplacement of the boost rewards? Man, what the fuck is this? Also I have no idea what "our existing excellent factories" are and can't find any of the bonuses you're talking about. Regardless, I'll throw that in. And also edit to make it clear that I'm boosting actions, because it wasn't.

I mean... just don't boost it to 1600. Just don't boost factories to 2000. An 80% chance is still a very good chance for it going off, we don't actually need the 100% guarantees for them going off. You're just being paranoid and wasting resources satisfying that paranoia instead of accepting that if you never dare, you will never achieve exceptional results.
For our factory bonuses on the planning they are in the infrastructure spoiler for example here is the industrial factories:
Industrial: Excellent (Cost: 50%, CoS: +5%, Economic)
That means for actions using the industrial factories they have a 50% discount and a 5% increase chance of success, those for building more factories it shows as 75%+5%.

For failure chances there is the saving money to reduce debt to better be able to afford actions, however I also try to consider how likely we are to pass all of our actions. As it is with my plan the chance to pass all four actions is 65%, if I only boosted munitions to 1000 that would drop to 58%. Plus excellent munitions gives improved quality to all branches of our forces and also passes that bonus on to the CAU which should help them in the fight versus the French and I want the CAU to stop the French so paying a premium on a 1 turn action to ensure it goes through is worth it to me.
 
[X] Plan Open Arms
Adhoc vote count started by Raptor580 on Dec 11, 2018 at 10:33 AM, finished with 41 posts and 19 votes.

  • [X] Plan Trade and Psionics
    [X] Plan Void Stalker's Nemesis
    -[X][UNRESTRICTED] XCOM Psionics (Cost 200, Chance of Success 75%)
    -[X][UNRESTRICTED] Expand Factories: Armour x2 (Cost 1000, Chance of Success 90%)
    -[X][FINANCIAL] Investigate Trade Opportunities: United Kingdom x3 (Cost 400, Chance of Success 80%)
    -[X][DIPLOMATIC] Japanese Military Alliance x3 (Cost 400, Chance of Success 80%)
    [X] Operation Rising Dawn
    -[X] Recruit From Militia
    -[X] Advanced Small Arms:
    -[X] Sell Electronics to Central Africa:
    -[X] Japanese Military Alliance:
    [X] Plan Open Arms
    -[X] XCOM Psionics (2x)
    -[X]Argentine Alliance (2x)
    -[X]Trade with Sphere Members
    -[X]Japanese Military Alliance (2x)
    [X] Good enough for government work
    -[X] Recruit From Militia
    -[X] Expand Factories (Munitions) (2x)
    -[X] Trade with Sphere Members (2x)
    -[X] XCOM Psionics (2x)
    [X] Monroe's ghost.
    -[X] Recruit From Militia
    -[X] Sell Consumer Goods to Argentina (x2)
    -[X] Sell Electronics to Central Africa:
    -[X] Argentine Alliance (x3)
    [X] Monroe's ghost.
 
For our factory bonuses on the planning they are in the infrastructure spoiler for example here is the industrial factories:
Industrial: Excellent (Cost: 50%, CoS: +5%, Economic)
That means for actions using the industrial factories they have a 50% discount and a 5% increase chance of success, those for building more factories it shows as 75%+5%.
Aha, I see what you're referring to now. Thank you for the explanation, that wasn't very penetrable to outside random observation.

For failure chances there is the saving money to reduce debt to better be able to afford actions, however I also try to consider how likely we are to pass all of our actions. As it is with my plan the chance to pass all four actions is 65%, if I only boosted munitions to 1000 that would drop to 58%. Plus excellent munitions gives improved quality to all branches of our forces and also passes that bonus on to the CAU which should help them in the fight versus the French and I want the CAU to stop the French so paying a premium on a 1 turn action to ensure it goes through is worth it to me.
Eeeeh, I don't really agree with that. Hunting for passing all our actions is wasteful. We just need to succeed at enough actions, or have a good enough chance at succeeding on them. As an example of wastage, spending an extra thousand on changing the CoS from 90% to 100%. At 90% it's highly likely to pass anyway. Spending an extra thousand just to make triply doubly sure is ridiculous. That's a horrible wastage. Action boosting should only really occur when the cost of doing so is negligible at best, barring actions that absolutely must succeed. And even with those, ~90% CoS is most definitely enough, if you hit that or above but not 100%, doubling it is nothing other than paranoid, barring again when the cost is negligible, say an extra 500 and no more.
 
I want to know why X-Com is breeding Ethereals. Like, I get the rest, they'd make good shock troops against another alien invasion, send in the mind controlled alien clones to weaken the enemy forces. In fact we could use some muton clone legions ourselves to give us a boost in case we get invaded. (NO CHRYSSALIDS)

But the strongest psychic species is another deal. Are they treating them like people and training them to be individuals loyal to X-Com? Are they keeping them in psi proof pens and harvesting their mind parts as they grow for augmentations or something? Are they destroying their minds and utilizing them as psionic repeaters of a kind?
 
~90% CoS is most definitely enough, if you hit that or above but not 100%, doubling it is nothing other than paranoid, barring again when the cost is negligible, say an extra 500 and no more.
The last 10% is actually the most valuable part to ensure. It prevents critical failures, which can prevent an action from ever taking place. And considering how important excellent munitions are for our military, that improving the factories will increase our yearly revenue, and how time critical it is to buff up the CAU before they cease to exist as a polity (not only losing us a potential ally, increasing the viability of conquest for world powers, but also losing us 3900 credits/turn in trade) it is an extremely important that it succeeds this turn.

That aside, the net effect of what Void Stalker is doing is purchasing an extra action for every 10 turns for 9000 credits.
We regularly spend significantly more to purchase action slots.
 
@Isaacssv558 how is the CAU doing right now against France?
You'll find out in the news update.
Math includes having NFI why there's a x0.5 next to the R&D costs but assuming they cancel out the doubling of investment from a x2. What's the point of that, anyway? Why not just have the halved cost be the actual cost? @Isaacssv558
Because it doesn't require the users or me to double check the bonuses every time we want to compare actions in different categories. It also simplifies bookkeeping in other ways, but that was the deciding factor.
I completely forgot about that. I don't remember, was that ever going to become available again?
No. You have pretty much got the debt under control anyway.
@Isaacssv558
Been thinking about the various techs and had a question. Would pure fusion warheads improve our demolition tech, i.e. industry,? I mean people did try to use fission charges for demo and construction before they realized that the radiation made it a no go and the biggest benifit of PFWs is no rads so it stands to suggest that the same tech could be used, as an example, bore a canal through a continent or extreme mining and so on.
In theory, yes. In practice it won't provide any concrete bonuses. It might appear in flavor text or something.
I want to know why X-Com is breeding Ethereals. Like, I get the rest, they'd make good shock troops against another alien invasion, send in the mind controlled alien clones to weaken the enemy forces. In fact we could use some muton clone legions ourselves to give us a boost in case we get invaded. (NO CHRYSSALIDS)

But the strongest psychic species is another deal. Are they treating them like people and training them to be individuals loyal to X-Com? Are they keeping them in psi proof pens and harvesting their mind parts as they grow for augmentations or something? Are they destroying their minds and utilizing them as psionic repeaters of a kind?
They are performing experiments on them in pursuit of four primary goals.
1. Obtain a better understanding of their capabilities and weaknesses in combat.
2. Decipher their thought process, especially as relates to military strategy.
3. Map their genome.
4. Improve knowledge of psionics.
 
They are performing experiments on them in pursuit of four primary goals.
1. Obtain a better understanding of their capabilities and weaknesses in combat.
2. Decipher their thought process, especially as relates to military strategy.
3. Map their genome.
4. Improve knowledge of psionics.
How are the security measures and failsafes? Last thing anyone wants is a filthy ethereal escaping
 
The last 10% is actually the most valuable part to ensure. It prevents critical failures, which can prevent an action from ever taking place. And considering how important excellent munitions are for our military, that improving the factories will increase our yearly revenue, and how time critical it is to buff up the CAU before they cease to exist as a polity (not only losing us a potential ally, increasing the viability of conquest for world powers, but also losing us 3900 credits/turn in trade) it is an extremely important that it succeeds this turn.
I see, this is just a matter of differing philosophies. I despise being able to boost actions to 100% except in the most simple of cases, simply because anything can and will go wrong at some point, no matter how well-prepared you are against it. There's no guarantees. I remember there was a change in how boosting worked related to this, but I don't know the specifics of it or where to find them. Regardless, this does make sense from a mechanics standpoint. A couple of points though. Our munitions are as important to us as munitions are to anyone. That's... not really an argument. Everyone needs good munitions. I understand improving yearly revenue from trade, that makes a level of sense. But the CAU is doing just fine. They kicked the shit out of France last time I checked. We don't need to amp ourselves up because the CAU is reeling on the brink. France took some backyard that nobody cares about, got their nose broken, then backed off.

That aside, the net effect of what Void Stalker is doing is purchasing an extra action for every 10 turns for 9000 credits.
For the sake of not wanting to figure out what maths were used for that, I'm going to believe this. Also call it a pretty measly benefit.

We regularly spend significantly more to purchase action slots.
...No we don't. Where did that come from? Here's where all our action slots came from and what they costed.
Industrial: Create Department of Industry, Cost 100 over 1 turn
Financial: Create Finance Committee, Cost 100 over 1 turn
R&D 1: Create Science and Technology Advisory Board, Cost 100 over 1 turn
R&D 2: XCOM Research Agreement, Cost 1000 over 1 turn
R&D 3: Improved Research Algorithms, Cost 3000 over 3 turns
Combined: 4300

Our combined costs for unlocking all the action slots we've unlocked so far is less than half what you say is being spent to get one action every ten turns.

Once again, that's a deplorably pathetic benefit to receive for that investment.

EDIT: Grammar. Were, not was.
 
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Just so I know, Were going to unleash psionics to the public right? I want Magic Powers on EVERY STREET CORNER, IN OUR HOMES, OUR WORK PLACES AND OUR MILITARY!
:p
 
I see, this is just a matter of differing philosophies. I despise being able to boost actions to 100% except in the most simple of cases, simply because anything can and will go wrong at some point

[Snip]

...No we don't. Where did that come from? Here's where all our action slots came from and what they costed.
We invested numerous research and industrial actions to make it possible to 100% our factories without breaking the bank.

As to my calculations, here is an example:
Alien Spaceframe. We paid 2000 extra credits over four turns to increase our CoS by 5%. Cost of a single turn's action: 500.
Expected amount spent to save an action: 40000 - 25.

It almost certainly cost too much for the potential benefit recieved. But it wasn't considered important enough to deny since it was "only" doubling down, and it was "only" 500 credits.

Everything needs to be considered on both a mathematical and strategic basis, not just saying something is either too expensive or too cheap.

Overall, I've found 10000 credits per extra action to be worthwhile regardless of how time critical the action is. Certain actions (and particularly unrestricted actions) are worth more depending on the situation we are in.
 
We invested numerous research and industrial actions to make it possible to 100% our factories without breaking the bank.

As to my calculations, here is an example:
Alien Spaceframe. We paid 2000 extra credits over four turns to increase our CoS by 5%. Cost of a single turn's action: 500.
Expected amount spent to save an action: 40000 - 25.

It almost certainly cost too much for the potential benefit recieved. But it wasn't considered important enough to deny since it was "only" doubling down, and it was "only" 500 credits.

Everything needs to be considered on both a mathematical and strategic basis, not just saying something is either too expensive or too cheap.

Overall, I've found 10000 credits per extra action to be worthwhile regardless of how time critical the action is. Certain actions (and particularly unrestricted actions) are worth more depending on the situation we are in.
I notice that very little of this actually seems to jab against anything I said. Yes, I know there was an investment into being able to 100% our factories without ravaging our coffers. If anything, that's a further cost to doubling down on things to 100%, which is a point against you. So... thanks?

I am considering things on a strategic basis. Putting munitions factories from 90% to 100% for an extra thousand isn't worth that investment. It's just not. Maybe you think it is, but at that point it's just opinion vs opinion with no factual winners.
 
As an example
[] Plan Void Stalker's Nemesis
-[][UNRESTRICTED] XCOM Psionics (Cost 200, Chance of Success 75%)
Doubling would result in an expected value of: one action for 3990 credits
-[][UNRESTRICTED] Expand Factories: Armour x2 (Cost 1000, Chance of Success 90%)
Tripling would result in an expected value of: one action for 10000 credits, (and preventing 1/10 super-critical failure, 2/10 critical failure, 2/10 normal failure)
-[][FINANCIAL] Investigate Trade Opportunities: United Kingdom x3 (Cost 400, Chance of Success 80%)
Quadrupling would result in an expected value of: one action for 8000 credits
-[][DIPLOMATIC] Japanese Military Alliance x3 (Cost 400, Chance of Success 80%)
Quadrupling would result in: one action for 8000 credits.

Also, expanding armour factories only decreases the cost of armour actions by 33%. Whereas expanding munitions factories will raise all of our forces' quality levels by one. Considering that we aren't going to take any armour actions any time soon, the latter is much more important than the former.
 
They are performing experiments on them in pursuit of four primary goals.
1. Obtain a better understanding of their capabilities and weaknesses in combat.
2. Decipher their thought process, especially as relates to military strategy.
3. Map their genome.
4. Improve knowledge of psionics.

Huh. Woulda thought they had enough of 1 given all the many alien corpses and the fact that we, yanno, won.

2 is interesting but unless the Ethereals are born with Ethereal knowledge I don't see how they can learn of their military strategy via them. Unless it's on a more primal level they're trying for.

3 I guess makes kinda sense?

4 is very understandable why they'd need living specimens for it.

Side note, it'd be fun to see a American Muton VS Krogan fight. And imagine if we really do end up making some for mixing into our own forces and get into a kerfluffle with the Turians that ends up with ground combat. I imagine hilarious reactions to realizing that A: We've got our own versions of krogan and that B: They fucked with a multi species group.

Buut I can see how alien clone legions might not be in the cards given the very very very large moral issues involved.
 
2 is interesting but unless the Ethereals are born with Ethereal knowledge I don't see how they can learn of their military strategy via them. Unless it's on a more primal level they're trying for.

I think the Ethereals have some kind of Psionic Hive/Overmind that contains their collective memories. Like Mind-Flayers, but less Squiddy

Buut I can see how alien clone legions might not be in the cards given the very very very large moral issues involved.

Well, then we could just not make them clones. XCOM has breeding programs, not cloning programs. Which means they have enough males and females of each species to create a stable and viable gene-pool. If the Mutons, when free from Ethereal control, are just like any other species, we can just raise them to be loyal friends and allies to the Human Race, and encourage their Martial culture to get Volunteer Legions of Muton Soldiers.
 
I want to know why X-Com is breeding Ethereals. Like, I get the rest, they'd make good shock troops against another alien invasion, send in the mind controlled alien clones to weaken the enemy forces. In fact we could use some muton clone legions ourselves to give us a boost in case we get invaded. (NO CHRYSSALIDS)

But the strongest psychic species is another deal. Are they treating them like people and training them to be individuals loyal to X-Com? Are they keeping them in psi proof pens and harvesting their mind parts as they grow for augmentations or something? Are they destroying their minds and utilizing them as psionic repeaters of a kind?
There was Ethereal that helped XCOM's predecessor and protected humanity is why, they are probably trying to replace him considering all the help he gave.
 
Well, then we could just not make them clones. XCOM has breeding programs, not cloning programs. Which means they have enough males and females of each species to create a stable and viable gene-pool. If the Mutons, when free from Ethereal control, are just like any other species, we can just raise them to be loyal friends and allies to the Human Race, and encourage their Martial culture to get Volunteer Legions of Muton Soldiers.
"Friends and Allies" Uh doubtful, at most soldiers and servants due to their low population, it'd probably be difficult to use them otherwise due to the inherent dislike most humans would have for them due to the war, and its extremely unlikely for a significant amount of time for them to be allowed autonomy in any capacity.
 
I think the Ethereals have some kind of Psionic Hive/Overmind that contains their collective memories. Like Mind-Flayers, but less Squiddy

Yeah but I thought that was shattered with the temple ship. At least in our area. Hmm. Interesting thought, a broken hivemind's remnants in a psychic plane randomly available to the remnants of the race that had it. That'd be a cool point for a setting.

Well, then we could just not make them clones. XCOM has breeding programs, not cloning programs. Which means they have enough males and females of each species to create a stable and viable gene-pool. If the Mutons, when free from Ethereal control, are just like any other species, we can just raise them to be loyal friends and allies to the Human Race, and encourage their Martial culture to get Volunteer Legions of Muton Soldiers.

Freeing the species like that also has it's moral issues, as well as the whole 'they were part of the group that tried to murder us' thing and the likely high xenophobia thing.

Still I could see it being more acceptable if given the right introduction. Display some Free Mutons enjoying every day stuff humans do, display how they've been helpful in rescue missions or the like. It'd take a lot of PR and effort and luck though, as well as the fact there'd likely still be issues for a long long while, but it's possible I feel.
 
Freeing the species like that also has it's moral issues, as well as the whole 'they were part of the group that tried to murder us' thing and the likely high xenophobia thing.

Still I could see it being more acceptable if given the right introduction. Display some Free Mutons enjoying every day stuff humans do, display how they've been helpful in rescue missions or the like. It'd take a lot of PR and effort and luck though, as well as the fact there'd likely still be issues for a long long while, but it's possible I feel.
And this is assuming we don't get another bout of Xenophobia from a bad second contact if we get to the ME cross. Cause it'd refuel any hatred that may have lessened over time.
 
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