Deus Pater (Exalted/40k)

tri2 said:

but I thought it would have been a good thing as it would have opened up the viewers mind a bit?

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depends if it were astartes fuck yes if it were psykers used by the Bolter Nuns than Blamming is done the grief would likely be a largely unfocused thing to avoid us being Blammed

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...
Our whole thing right now is opposition to pureblood supremacy- one of the things that has gone wrong with the imperium

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

I think I like this as a contrast to the humility Ignatius has displayed until now.

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

"What is this you have done?" - Genesis 3:13

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

If a write-in is acceptable;
[X] Happiness - You remember the good times, for the Emperor is not just a god but is also a man. You remember his enjoyment making discoveries and the pleasure he took in learning new things. You remember the divine joy he felt each time he recovered his sons. You begin to understand what the Emperor fought for and what he wanted for his people. With how few happy memories existing in an immortal life, you can see how much was sacrificed.

If not;

[X] Wrath - You remember the fury of a god and the faces of those who drove him to such extremes. You remember what he did to those who enraged him so, and the scars his fury left on the world.

Chrestomanci said:

If a write-in is acceptable;
[X] Happiness - You remember the good times, for the Emperor is not just a god but is also a man. You remember his enjoyment making discoveries and the pleasure he took in learning new things. You remember the divine joy he felt each time he recovered his sons. You begin to understand what the Emperor fought for and what he wanted for his people. With how few happy memories existing in an immortal life, you can see how much was sacrificed.

If not;

[X] Wrath - You remember the fury of a god and the faces of those who drove him to such extremes. You remember what he did to those who enraged him so, and the scars his fury left on the world.

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@Maugan Ra
Is a write-in acceptable for this vote?

(Leaving aside that canonically it's dubious the Emperor thought of the Primarchs as anything more than tools to be used and discarded...)

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much

Regret is a word often used in the 41st millennium.

Maugan Ra said:

Cardinal Ignatius, Scion of the God-Emperor

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"Willpower: ●●●●● ●●"
Hmm-had we had 7 wp before, or did we have 6 and this action gave us an extra?

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much

[X] Wrath - You remember the fury of a god and the faces of those who drove him to such extremes. You remember what he did to those who enraged him so, and the scars his fury left on the world.

>Grief has a 50 vote lead
>Pride and Wrath are tied behind
>heaven or hell let's rock

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

There's been a lot of votes absent a ton of discussion so it's hard to gauge the rationale behind the process rather than just, like, eyeballing the result and making an assumption. But in the interests of saying something I'm going to go out on a limb and say that people voting for Grief are misunderstanding the option to an extent. It isn't wisdom born of experience or necessarily a highlight reel entitled Here's Where I Went Wrong, See This? Don'T Do This, but rather it's a montage of the Carrion Emperor's greatest personal fuckups and failures. The death of Sanguinus is almost definitely in there, the moment he realized his firstborn was truly beyond saving. The moment when he heard of the Drop Site Massacre and realized how badly he had misjudged Lorgar and his confederates. The moment, probably, when he was crippled in his great, gilded palace, slowly dying and realized that he had no way forward. That he'd burned every bridge even though his forces had carried the day and the best he could attempt was a millennia long holding action that would see everything he built come to the worst sort of ruin. And that nobody had put him there but himself and that in seeking to save humanity he'd damned them all to a Hell of his own making.

That's what we're getting, that's the caliber of what we'll have in us: the aeons-deep depression of an immortal God Emperor who fucked up basically as hard as you can possibly fuck up without actually dying. You're not going to be able to consistently mine useful shit from it and including it as a part of Ignatius is going to make him vulnerable to...well to all the stuff normal depression would except on glowing golden steroids. Becoming mired in re-litigating past losses, becoming obsessed with Not Doing This Again No Matter What, becoming prone to periods of lethargy and lassitude 'cause hey it's kinda hard to muster up enthusiasm or concentration for your highly stressful, super important job when you've got the crippling emotional agony of a God-King who realized that he never understood his sons, not really, and because of that his family, his legacy, his dream is split and blowing past "dying" and heading towards "dead" at 100mph.

Now this isn't to say that there's nothing positive in there tbh, knowing some of the Emperor's biggest fuckups and failures will not only fill in some pretty juicy bits of background lore from a very personal perspective but also, like, serve as a sorta memento mori for the good Cardinal. Bbbbuuuuut tbh, 40k already kinda has enough grim-faced dudes remembering that they too will die and all that jazz. So in the end I'm left kinda cold.

Similarly Wrath (while honestly still much preferable to Grief) doesn't quite strike the same chords for me. It's inheriting an ancient grudge, ancient vendettas, it's a litany of enemies and a promise to settle the score once and for all. Engaging definitely, it's the kind of thing that promotes action as it seeps in even if it destabilizes us at crucial moments, and honestly Ignatius going all fire and brimstone at points is still something I absolutely want to see. Bbbbuuuuut

Pride's really what captures me. Pride's the first sin, the foundation from which so much other horrible shit spawned, the birthplace of the Emperor's greatest, grandest ambitions and most cherished dreams but also his ultimate undoing. The Emperor is/was in such a huge way motivated by that drumbeat of "I know better, I am the only one who knows the way forward, it can only by my hand" and Pride captures not only that ethos but also the reverse, the flaws and the fractures that brought it all to ruin. It's us seeing the Emperor not just at his most dramatic, a la Wrath, or his worst, a la Grief, but at his best as well. And more than anything it gives us a sense of how he was as a human, a man. His closely held bonds, the love and genuine affection he had for the Primarchs. Similarly it also acts as a really nice foil for Ignatius's sorta default. For a Cardinal he's been written as something like humble, not demure no or docile or anything like that but the guy is a big believer in the value of personal humility. So something that acts as a counterweight to that, for good or ill, really interests me.

Also I enjoy the sorta fallen angel parallels it creates, since you have one of the most powerful figures of religious authority in the setting (very Catholic-coded too) also playing host to a shard from a fallen, more-than-half-dead God who was undone by his own hubris. It's like having a piece of Hapsburg Satan grafted onto you giving you good and shitty and just plain weird advice and dreams and honestly I'm super into that.

tl;dr a vote for Pride is a vote for CARDINAL LUCIFER ;v

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

This is a surprisingly sophisticated interrogation. I was honestly fully expecting torture to be involved.

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.
We should have something to strive for, not grief to wallow in.

I am changing my vote. Well-argued @TenfoldShields.

[X] Pride

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.

Swapping vote to at least salvage an opposition to Grief and I like Tenfold's reasoning

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

[X] Grief - You remember all that the Emperor most regretted, his greatest sorrows and self-perceived failures. The grief of an immortal is a terrible thing indeed, and oh, there is so much...

[X] Pride - You remember the Emperor's greatest triumphs, the deeds that pleased him most. Some were his own, some were performed by others, all hold a special place in his heart.