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You Are: A sector admiral of a strained imperium.

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kaeim said:
Can we though? I'll admit, we've done fantastic, but we should be careful to not openly associate ourselves with them because that closes more doors than it opens in my opinion. Furthermore we're already being offered a lot, but if we're too greedy we're likely not going to be seen as someone they will deal with in the long run, plus being given a lot makes it harder for other parties to out bribe them.
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It's surprising, but psychology shows the opposite effect. The more you pay or have to struggle for something, the more you value it. Consumer studies have shown that customers will actively choose higher-priced versions of certain goods even when no difference in quality exists (quality here includes brand name) just because they associate something being too cheap with also being bad quality or of low worth.

If you think back to the time you bought a cheap shirt, for example, I'm sure you were a lot more cavalier with it than an expensive bespoke suit.
 
Packrat said:
There were two votes for 'just say no' then a bunch of separate plans asking for other stuff but non with more than one vote. So I went for this compromise and threw in the 'arrest her' option given that turning her down flat was popular.
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...ok.

So, I'm going to express something here that I've already said, but never seemed to find any purchase. Please, for the love of god, start closing votes. Quests suffer enormously when QMs don't, as no one knows where things are going to go, and as has been seen before it can allow a vote to entirely swing between when someone starts writing and when they finish. There is a reason that the Quest system exists in the manner that it does.

In a similar vein, it's good form to both wait for actual consensus - which this wasn't - and also to go back to the last update to work with intent of a plan instead of wording. That you want to write is great, but your desire to just speed through to get to pre-set plot points is not a good thing. Quests are quests because the questers get agency and control over the actions of the MC. You're not giving us that, and trying to make effective decisions is incredibly difficult when accurate context which our character should have isn't given until after the update.

I'm not trying to bludgeoun you here, but please, this needs work.


Frankly, I dislike most of these options, but a big part of that is down to how they came to be. That said, yeah, I'm not playing her game. She isn't paying enough and is throwing around words as if she understands what they mean when everything about her screams that she doesn't.

Refusal is a trap option anyway, so I'm just going to go with arrest. If we take her alive, I have little doubt that ImpInt could rip her conversation with us out of her brain.

[X] Arrest

There was a better option, but it's been taken from us. A pity.
 
Satar said:
It's surprising, but psychology shows the opposite effect. The more you pay or have to struggle for something, the more you value it. Consumer studies have shown that customers will actively choose higher-priced versions of certain goods even when no difference in quality exists (quality here includes brand name) just because they associate something being too cheap with also being bad quality or of low worth.

If you think back to the time you bought a cheap shirt, for example, I'm sure you were a lot more cavalier with it than an expensive bespoke suit.
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We're still likely to face a higher diplomacy check for the ask a lot more option to be accepted though. I do agree being a Baron will mean more protection, however. They'd lose face if we're sidelined or killed after clearly being on their side.
 
Snowfire said:
Frankly, I dislike most of these options, but a big part of that is down to how they came to be. That said, yeah, I'm not playing her game. She isn't paying enough and is throwing around words as if she understands what they mean when everything about her screams that she doesn't.
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Is it?

Gunman said:
She has made a concrete offer. She is promising us
  • A Share
  • A meeting with the Empress.
  • A promotion by one or more ranks.
  • Upon war being declared immediately because of our actions, we will be transferred to a command that won't see us ravaged for being a tripwire force. What of our loyal crew and officers?
  • Political protection and the political favoritism of House Arslan to make us get promoted to a position that makes the best use of our talents during the war.
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We can negotiate for more. It comes down to whether we want to side with Arslan or the Imperials. She forced us in a position where we cannot be neutral or independent. The closest thing to a middle ground is refusal and that makes us an enemy after all she told us.
 
Yea. These votes are going way too fast. There should have been much more than 21 hours betwen the last post and this one.

Im just not gonna vote here and come back later.
 
Snowfire said:
So, I'm going to express something here that I've already said, but never seemed to find any purchase. Please, for the love of god, start closing votes. Quests suffer enormously when QMs don't, as no one knows where things are going to go, and as has been seen before it can allow a vote to entirely swing between when someone starts writing and when they finish. There is a reason that the Quest system exists in the manner that it does.

In a similar vein, it's good form to both wait for actual consensus - which this wasn't - and also to go back to the last update to work with intent of a plan instead of wording. That you want to write is great, but your desire to just speed through to get to pre-set plot points is not a good thing. Quests are quests because the questers get agency and control over the actions of the MC. You're not giving us that, and trying to make effective decisions is incredibly difficult when accurate context which our character should have isn't given until after the update.

I'm not trying to bludgeoun you here, but please, this needs work.
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Although I don't agree with Snowfire's rejection of our current options, I do fully agree and I do beg you @Packrat to please listen to this.

It is a common thing on SV quests to not only have votes open for a fixed amount of time, but also to close and let people know what the tally is afterwards. Its common curtesy to the audience and saves a lot of time. I do know that Snowfire was planning on creating a plan for the last update, and he does put a lot of work and thought into it, again even if I don't always agree with him! He clearly is invested in this quest, as am I and I'm sure a lot of people are. It would be nice to have some ground where we can discuss things beforehand and then vote.

I would suggest a two hour hold off on any voting of any kind to let the early birds who might be on your timezone to discuss, then allow for plans to start being pushed. People can contribute to these plans later
 
Gunman said:
We can negotiate for more. It comes down to whether we want to side with Arslan or the Imperials. She forced us in a position where we cannot be neutral or independent. The closest thing to a middle ground is refusal and that makes us an enemy after all she told us.
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There was a third option that I was angling for, which would have allowed us to go forward on reasonable terms, if not ones she absolutely would have liked - but that'd be on her for trying to force us when balance of power wasn't in her favour. That said, there's no point expounding on it now, as any chance of it functioning is gone.

Such is life.
 
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Can we please not arrest her, considering that's really going to mess things up for our character with literally everyone? Us, a commoner, arresting a high born heiress to a powerful house is going to anger all the nobles, no matter what reason we give for it, because it threatens their monopoly of power. It might make the imperial house happy, but they're on the way out!
 
kaeim said:
It is a common thing on SV quests to not only have votes open for a fixed amount of time, but also to close and let people know what the tally is afterwards. Its common curtesy to the audience and saves a lot of time. I do know that Snowfire was planning on creating a plan for the last update, and he does put a lot of work and thought into it, again even if I don't always agree with him! He clearly is invested in this quest, as am I and I'm sure a lot of people are. It would be nice to have some ground where we can discuss things beforehand and then vote.
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I hate to "white knight" a QM because @Packrat is an adult who can handle polite constructive criticism but this wasn't as bad as the last time. This time there were a handful of votes and not even a plurality. He keeps a the quest moving at a fast pace and we all appreciate that.
 
kaeim said:
Although I don't agree with Snowfire's rejection of our current options, I do fully agree and I do beg you @Packrat to please listen to this.

It is a common thing on SV quests to not only have votes open for a fixed amount of time, but also to close and let people know what the tally is afterwards. Its common curtesy to the audience and saves a lot of time. I do know that Snowfire was planning on creating a plan for the last update, and he does put a lot of work and thought into it, again even if I don't always agree with him! He clearly is invested in this quest, as am I and I'm sure a lot of people are. It would be nice to have some ground where we can discuss things beforehand and then vote.

I would suggest a two hour hold off on any voting of any kind to let the early birds who might be on your timezone to discuss, then allow for plans to start being pushed. People can contribute to these plans later
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To expand on this, my plan was pretty much complete by the time the update was posted. If I'd known you were defaulting (again) to QM override, I'd not have bothered putting in the time.
 
[X] Arrest Her. She is attempting conspiracy to treason, broadcast to all ships that she is a traitor then board the Fafnir and take her captive.
 
Snowfire said:
There was a third option that I was angling for, which would have allowed us to go forward on reasonable terms, if not ones she absolutely would have liked - but that'd be on her for trying to force us when balance of power wasn't in her favour. That said, there's no point expounding on it now, as any chance of it functioning now is gone.
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Why not negotiate for more? Isn't that what the Demand More options are?
 
[X] Arrest Her. She is attempting conspiracy to treason, broadcast to all ships that she is a traitor then board the Fafnir and take her captive.
 
Snowfire said:
There was a third option that I was angling for, which would have allowed us to go forward on reasonable terms, if not ones she absolutely would have liked - but that'd be on her for trying to force us when balance of power wasn't in her favour. That said, there's no point expounding on it now, as any chance of it functioning now is gone.

Such is life.
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Well that, and ultimately I think accepting the Arslan offer won't make us Emperor. I don't think she's offering a bad deal by any measure, especially if we can convince her to take the top deal for us, but even being the founder of a new Ducal House for a Neo-Imperium isn't becoming Emperor, and I'm unwilling to settle for less.
 
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Satar said:
Well that, and ultimately I think accepting the Arslan offer won't make us Emperor. I don't think she's offering a bad deal by any measure, especially if we can convince her to take the top deal for us, but even being the founder of a new Ducal House for a Neo-Imperium isn't becoming Emperor, and I'm willing to stake everything on Emperorship or death.
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She did hint we can become Prince and there is reason to believe she is meant to be a marriage candidate. I explained them before. She is the opposite of Ranca as a marriage partner. It is possible we become prince by marrying her, putting us first in line of Emperorship.
 
Gunman said:
She did hint we can become Prince and there is reason to believe she is meant to be a marriage candidate. I explained them before. She is the opposite of Ranca as a marriage partner. It is possible we become prince by marrying her, putting us first in line of Emperorship.
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But @Gunman, I don't want to become emperor by marriage.

I want to seize the bloody crown with our own two fists and shove it on our head. I want to reform the Imperium too, and leave behind a legend that will span the centuries. Can't do that being the +1 to someone else's tale.
 
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[X] Demand A Lot More. Agree to her proposal only if she will make you a baron immediately, with another five shares to follow and a guarantee that you will be given strategic command when you openly move to her families' side in the future. Given people will know where the shares come from, this is going to make it obvious that you are a client of House Arslan, but also a terrifyingly valued one. You would be asking for the value of a planet or nearly two squadrons of capital ships, enough to build up House Arslan's navy by at least a fifth and probably a quarter instead.
[X] Infrastructure & Surrender. You will limit bombardment of Chuang Mu to infrastructure and take the monitor's surrender. You will seek to provoke the war another way.

This and arresting are worth voting for IMO.
 
[X] Arrest Her. She is attempting conspiracy to treason, broadcast to all ships that she is a traitor then board the Fafnir and take her captive.

If nothing else this will be fun.
 
Gunman said:
I hate to "white knight" a QM because @Packrat is an adult who can handle polite constructive criticism but this wasn't as bad as the last time. This time there were a handful of votes and not even a plurality. He keeps a the quest moving at a fast pace and we all appreciate that.
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I appreciate a fast paced quest, but I also appreciate votes and discussion on what is clearly a well thought out and detailed world that has already made me had to rethink about my own ethics and opinions on things. The problem is that we don't know when a vote is going to be closed, or even when its been closed. I mean, no offence to the QM, but its a unwritten common curtesy to let people know when the vote is tallied and closed.

I also know that there's been a few times now when a update has come, and it turned out that the original plan that @Packrat had been working from had actually lost the vote.
 
Gunman said:
Why not negotiate for more? Isn't that what the Demand More options are?
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No, because it involves accepting her offer. I never intended to actually accept her offer, or refuse it, because her entire pitch was based on a logical fulcrum that we could snap in half with light application of political reality and logic. There was, again, a third path. It is now closed to us. I'm done wasting time with her.
 
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