You Are: A sector admiral of a strained imperium.

@Snowfire

Okay <thumbsuck>

Excerpt from Space tactics 101 - Planetary Assault.

"... would seem that an attacker could simply stand off at a light-hour or more and destroy defences.

However, even 'immobile' satellites need station-keeping of some description, be it drives or cold-gas jets or the ingeniously efficient light/dark 'photon sails' of civilian satellites.
From even a light-minute away, assuming .3C impactors, the target has had four minutes to cease being in the same spot as when you detect it.
Since no sane defence commander fails to order random-walk around base when enemy ships are known to be in system, blind launch is nearly pointless.
In order to kill defences then, an attacker should close to less than ten light-seconds. At this point he is under fire from the defences and ..."

How does that sound?

I would also add that shields add more distance to an attack and having maneuvering jets doesn't take away from battle stations purpose. You still cut out the FTL, scanners, a lot of communications, life support systems, and you have a stationary mobile platform controlled from a central location. Sensors could be geared more towards detecting movement that is counter to the relative movement of the system. So if something is coming in hot from out of the system it would flash big on sensors. That would also be a good reason why ships don't move at near C speeds to quickly move in and out of engagement radius, too easily spotted.

The fact that railguns are dodged so easily lends this idea some credence.
 
I don't think we have enough impactors to do that.

Battleships are only one hundred thousand tons in mass. Heavy cruisers are only half their size. That puts a rather hard cap on the number of significantly sized railgun rounds they can hold in their magazines.

Furthermore, railguns can only accelerate rounds to tens of kilometers per second. And ships can only accelerate at tens of gravities. They just do not seem to have speed and ammo volume to pursue the tactic you are suggesting.

Also compared to a setting like Honor Harrington, everything is tiny and slow.

Basically, accept this as a conceit of the setting and move on please.

The mass issue is a fair point, although placing a battleship as a hundred thousand tons in mass when they carry crews of thousands just raises some truly enormous questions given that we've been building military naval vessels of that mass for decades today. And it's not as if a Nimitz has all that much in the way of free space. As for acceleration...two problems. First, if FTL travel allows transition of momentum into the target star system's frame of reference, the entire point is moot. At tens of gravities (lets assume 25, say), you can reach a third of c in less than 5 days. If FTL allows for momentum transfer, then all you do is run-up somewhere in deep space, then jump in and flush your entire impactor load at targets of interest, relayed to you before you jump by a scout. Of course, this leaves off the effect of sliding down the gravitational gradient, but I'm not going to go digging out orbital mechanics math to take days of continued acceleration towards a planet into account.

How does that sound?

Heavily inconsistent.

I would also add that shields add more distance to an attack and having maneuvering jets doesn't take away from battle stations purpose. You still cut out the FTL, scanners, a lot of communications, life support systems, and you have a stationary mobile platform controlled from a central location. Sensors could be geared more towards detecting movement that is counter to the relative movement of the system. So if something is coming in hot from out of the system it would flash big on sensors. That would also be a good reason why ships don't move at near C speeds to quickly move in and out of engagement radius, too easily spotted.

The fact that railguns are dodged so easily lends this idea some credence.

This would make sense if FTL sensors existed. Which they don't.

On the matter of movement, the issue with your premise is that you're proposing amazingly low-impulse methods to solve this problem, which won't be enough to alter the position of a large mass locked in a steady orbit. And yes, mass matters. Just because you're in micrograv doesn't mean that momentum suddenly stops existing as a concept you have to work against.

And if shields extend appreciably from their source, that actually makes it easier to land shots.
 
As mentioned above, ships are not arbitrarily fast, it would take a fast warship, a light cruiser for example, twelve days of constant acceleration to get to a third of light speed.

Only ships do not have inertial dampening of any kind so even with the augmentations of naval crew it would take significantly longer, people can survive those accelerations for hours at most. More practically getting projectiles up to fractional velocities of lightspeed would take a month or two.

Then the same time to slow down, I am not sure cruisers are designed to operate without resupply for that long especially while averaging over one gravity of acceleration the whole time, they certainly do not carry nearly that much fuel.

Edit: Also FTL sensors effectively do exist for a star system with heavy defenses under siege, because they will have a few patrol cutters and routinely jump them light hours out then back again to observe the outer system.
 
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This would make sense if FTL sensors existed. Which they don't.

On the matter of movement, the issue with your premise is that you're proposing amazingly low-impulse methods to solve this problem, which won't be enough to alter the position of a large mass locked in a steady orbit. And yes, mass matters. Just because you're in micrograv doesn't mean that momentum suddenly stops existing as a concept you have to work against.

A battlestation could easily have the same engines as a capital ship. Even if they are half that, that only means that the effective firing distance is twice as long.

EDIT: Also with no humans on board it could achieve 9+ Gs of acceleration, unlike a ship.
 
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[X] Demand Tribute. Demand that the local citizens surrender then pay tribute, loading all available shipping with high value manufactured goods before sending them up into space with sacrificial crews. (Time taken and yield variable, depending upon Diplomacy and Subterfuge rolls, in the range of 5-75 Wealth)
[X] Return Home. You have achieved your goals, return home with your prizes and/or loot.
 
Only ships do not have inertial dampening

Thank you for resolving that. Although this could leave RKVs as a possibility, they wouldn't be efficient.

I'm still extremely confused as to why battleships are barely as massy as top of the line military naval craft today, but that's a separate conversation. Seriously though, we've built cruise liners twice that mass, and if you've got the industrial capacity to curtain a planet in minefields, building bigger should be trivial. Given the systems present weapons wise, bigger is also almost certainly better.
 
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Thank you for resolving that. Although this could leave RKVs as a possibility, they wouldn't be efficient.

I'm still extremely confused as to why battleships are barely as massy as top of the line military naval craft today, but that's a separate conversation. Seriously though, we've built cruise liners twice that mass, and if you've got the industrial capacity to curtain a planet in minefields, building bigger should be trivial. Given the systems present weapons wise, bigger is also almost certainly better.

Larger could mean more problems dodging, issues dumping excess heat, inertia in regards to relative movement, FTL drive. I would go more towards ability to dodge and shielding not scaling with size.
 
Thank you for resolving that. Although this could leave RKVs as a possibility, they wouldn't be efficient.

I'm still extremely confused as to why battleships are barely as massy as top of the line military naval craft today, but that's a separate conversation. Seriously though, we've built cruise liners twice that mass, and if you've got the industrial capacity to curtain a planet in minefields, building bigger should be trivial. Given the systems present weapons wise, bigger is also almost certainly better.

Because a battleship can still be crippled if one really big fusion bomb gets through the shields to directly impact the hull, ten, hundred thousand ton battleships are better than one million ton battleship even if they are fully capable of building such a thing. They are certainly a lot more strategically and tactally flexible.

Big commercial freighters hit the million ton range routinely, warships are only as big as they need to be.

Also planet protecting minefields are not very dense, there are no physical mines, mostly small torpedo launchers with effective ranges of single digit light seconds.
 
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Thank you for resolving that. Although this could leave RKVs as a possibility, they wouldn't be efficient.

I'm still extremely confused as to why battleships are barely as massy as top of the line military naval craft today, but that's a separate conversation. Seriously though, we've built cruise liners twice that mass, and if you've got the industrial capacity to curtain a planet in minefields, building bigger should be trivial. Given the systems present weapons wise, bigger is also almost certainly better.
Wouldn't the issue be relativelt easily solved by just not having any crew on board and it be fully automated, as that raises the amount you can accelerate considerably and you can store more fuel without need for life support. We already know they have advanced automation given it's been mentioned they have panoptican states, and realistically, programming in the orbital movements of a solar system, accelerating, firing, decelerating, really isn't that complicated.
 
as that raises the amount you can accelerate considerably
Yes and no; You still have to worry about material stresses. Most places seems to forget about this; If you have a large, massive object, having it not snap itself in half is far more difficult than not pasting the crew inside. Maybe for small fighters it's true, and we see it in missiles, but large ships are an entirely different ball game.
 
Can we please not land and let them have a shot at FTLing on top of us, guys? Looting opens us up to that quite nicely.
 
Update 25 - Battleships Over Imhotep
[X] Demand Tribute. Demand that the local citizens surrender then pay tribute, loading all available shipping with high value manufactured goods before sending them up into space with sacrificial crews. (Time taken and yield variable, depending upon Diplomacy and Subterfuge rolls, in the range of 5-75 Wealth)
[X] Return Home. You have achieved your goals, return home with your prizes and/or loot.

Voting has indeed exploded, it is also pretty solidly in favour of the above.

You have the domed colonies of Linxia completely at your mercy, roughly three hundred million people, not just the mining and fuel refineries that form the core of the economy here but also entire centuries old cities that are as prosperous and wealthy as anything in the empire. Whilst you have Captain Sones and his staff works on estimations of portable wealth you also have the Endeavour pinpoint every starport and all of the civilian shipping that failed to escape during your extremely rapid destruction of the defences.

Very occasionally a remnant weapons pod fires, failing to achieve anything, you order Captain Dame Juley Mara Wisanch to jump the Peregrine out in order to retrieve the Cirrus and your prizes. Further in system, you note that the monitor has still not launched but there is furious traffic from a handful of attack skiffs jumping back and forth.

Captain Sones Subterfuge Roll
3 + 6 + 2 + Subterfuge 15 = 26
Good Success


Something that is highlighted is that one of those attack skiffs has left, their jump emergence signatures are very slightly different and where there were three leaping back and forth to watch you and the outer system, now there are only two, one has obviously departed on a courier mission.

Meanwhile, given that Sones is quite busy with his own work, you have Commander Dame Thera Phardson of the Peregrine conduct negotiations with the local civil authorities. You demand every single jump capable vessel in the gas giant's system then, following guidance compiled by Captain Sones, list the products of their zero gee factories and refineries that must be loaded into these craft.

Commander Phardson Diplomacy:
2 + 3 + 4 + 13 Diplomacy = 22
Success


Unfortunately for this being a smooth process the local population appear to be replacing their head of government every few hours, essentially every time whomever you are talking to agrees to your demands they a replaced. This wastes almost two days until you begin bombardment of the terrain outside of several of the largest dome cities, greeting a hundred million or so people to a fusion bomb detonating just far enough away not to break their environmental seals, every hour until they change their minds.

With radiation counters blaring, domes starting to leak and infrastructure rapidly degrading, people start to agree with your demands and civilian vessels begin to be launched. Marine parties investigating the first few find that over half of them have been loaded with ballast rather than the high value goods you demanded whilst several more have their hyperdrives sabotaged and will not be able to jump out.

In retribution you destroy a dome, giving the inhabitants twelve hours to evacuate then blasting it with railgun fire to leave a city of seven hundred thousand an empty husk, though the local media reports only a thousand or so dead.

By the end of a week or so you have every jump capable civilian ship under your control with perhaps seventy percent of them insufficiently sabotaged to fly and maybe half of the cargo you demanded. No reinforcements have arrived but you are receiving tens of thousands of personal threats transmitted from across the system every hour.

Captain Sones Subterfuge Roll
5 + 6 + 2 + Subterfuge 15 = 28
Good Success


Captain Sones has continued to analyse local media and communications and has come to a worrying realization. The ranting about Chuang Mu's three battleships is because, in solidarity with their NASP allies, they have had them stationed at the Rana Salient. Right now they are apparently being ordered to Imhotep in defiance of NASP fleet directives, there does seem to be a fairly large minority pushing for quitting the NASP alliance given that it left them vulnerable to this raid, but a larger minority pushing for trying to force the NASP into open war.

Regardless you cannot do anything to spare Imhotep, the battleships will be there already and you lack sufficient force to do anything about it, you plot a jump back to Illam with your prizes.

The return journey takes three weeks given that you are burdened by a hoard of merchant vessels and you emerge back into the Illam system to find it in dissarray, several of your patrol cutters are rapidly jumping around the priphery, scouting for attack, the defences are fully powered, a trio of Dragon Class heavy cruisers is in orbit over Ilam itself undergoing refit.

Your jumping in with a heavy cruiser, three light cruisers, a corvette, an attack skiff and a flock of civilian vessels, obviously causes quite the stir though you quickly enough have one of your cutters alongside and her captain, a Lieutenant Leray, on screen.

"Sir! Sector headquarters has compiled a report." The information flashes across, feeding into your implants. "As you can see, three weeks ago a trio of battleships with the support of cruisers and attack skiffs crossed from the Rana salient, they immediately landed four brigades of marines under heavy fire support and functionally annihilated the entire Imperial garrison, along with the mercenaries, within two days. They are now announcing that Imhotep is an independent world. A fast skiff from New Theia has declared that this is not official NASP policy,a rogue action, but then they would." It is fairly obvious he thinks that this must be some kind of trickery on their behalf.

You will, once things have been sold and prize courts convened, gain the following:
17 Wealth from the two cruisers
15 Wealth from the corvette and attack skiff
25 Wealth from civilian ships and loot.

+57 Total Wealth


Despite the near complete success of your raid, you are feeling rather grim as you jump your battered vessels above Ilam.

What are you going to propose to the newly arrived Viscountess and the Governor General though?

[] Raid Chuang Mu, Again. You can force these battleships off Imhotep if you threaten their home system in greater force.
[] Harass. If you combine your ships with those of the newly arrived heavy cruiser squadron then you can try to pick apart the rogue fleet over Imhotep.
[] Reinforcements. The Imperial Navy is keeping it's capital ships in reserve as a fleet in being, but there is now a squadron of NASP capital ships pushed into Imperial space. You are not equipped to fight them but your job is to serve as a trip wire not deal with an invasion. Request that Fleet Command send heavy vessels to assist.
[] Other. Write in.

Also everyone failed their rolls to skill up Diplomacy and Subterfuge. Perhaps another time! Also you now have an obscene 237 Political Capital and 151 Wealth. Note that any ships you 'buy' with these resources will arrive 'next' strategic turn (though you are most of the way through this one).
 
[X] Harass. If you combine your ships with those of the newly arrived heavy cruiser squadron then you can try to pick apart the rogue fleet over Imhotep.

Let's go steal all their shinnies.
 
237 Political Capital and 151 Wealth

*crazed giggling*

Ahem. I'm guessing that getting the Dragons to come with us would require a diplomacy roll of some sort to get the Viscountess to operate under our orders?

I ask because if we can get her on side I'm hugely tempted to leverage this 'rogue action' to completely devastate Chuang Mu. They're primed to pop, just need some more pushing to start those cracks growing out of control.

@Gunman with our PC at the current levels, can we afford to increase our Sector Budget sufficient to support another HC? I'd love a true capital ship at this point, but I understand if it might not be possible.
 
[] Raid Chuang Mu, Again. You can force these battleships off Imhotep if you threaten their home system in greater force.
This seems likely to backfire.
[] Harass. If you combine your ships with those of the newly arrived heavy cruiser squadron then you can try to pick apart the rogue fleet over Imhotep.
[] Reinforcements. The Imperial Navy is keeping it's capital ships in reserve as a fleet in being, but there is now a squadron of NASP capital ships pushed into Imperial space. You are not equipped to fight them but your job is to serve as a trip wire not deal with an invasion. Request that Fleet Command send heavy vessels to assist.
I'm thinking we combine these two options. Use our obscene skill to survive the harassment while we badger high command to send us some goddamn reinforcements.
Also everyone failed their rolls to skill up Diplomacy and Subterfuge. Perhaps another time!
Also, for fuck's sake!
 
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[X] Raid Chuang Mu, Again. You can force these battleships off Imhotep if you threaten their home system in greater force.

Let's get rich boys.
 
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[X] Harass. If you combine your ships with those of the newly arrived heavy cruiser squadron then you can try to pick apart the rogue fleet over Imhotep.
 
@Snowfire @Forgothrax If you buy a battlecruiser with political capital then you can requisition the Sword of Democracy, which is just finishing refit to Imperial standard over Ilam after the navy bought it, if you want to buy one with cash then it would take longer, there are less than twenty battlecruisers in the empire.
 
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