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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

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Azel said:
Their response depends on a lot of factors and likewise your counter-response. Though there will be a vote if things go too far off-script.
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Well since this is likely a Diplo Hero, he might take our initial offer as the all to often Bet High then go down to an agreement we like.
 
natruska said:
I understand the argument that they won't want to give us concessions for helping them out on one raid, but that's not what this is about. This is a ploy to make us stop raiding them, and you're all falling for it. Anything short of full tributary status is throwing away all the prep we've done towards subjugating Brushcrest for nothing.
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This clearly does nothing whatsoever to stop us from raiding them next turn so that doesn't make any sense, a ploy to stop us from raiding them would have to actually extend into the future.
 
Azel said:
Fair warning at that, the Makarites have a decent share of combat related traits.
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Don't worry the people who we just raised a village to the ground of will be willing to not throw us into the meat grinder by any means necessary so that they gain the most from this agreement. :whistle:
After all to do so will just simply be wrong. :V
 
Well not to let this sit idle for long periods just because @Azel is not updating this week.
I like how our traits are interpreted, compared to say Stone to the Stars. Where we have a similar trait, Mastery of Nature; however they read and are achieved in nearly opposite ways. Ours being Human Centric and about conquering nature, in SttS its about how it was granted by the spirits and enhances appreciation of nature.
Its an interesting dichotomy that seperates us from other civ quests like POC who loved nature and SttS who also love nature.

Edit: Not meant to bug people... :p
 
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It seems I will be pretty busy with Real-Life this week and after that, it's off to two weeks of vacation.

Since I don't want to have the longer hiatus drop in the middle of a extended campaign, Tales of History is officially on hiatus until September.
 
[X] Refuse the deal. Raid Brushcrest as planned. Whoever these People of Makar are, they are no danger to Greenvalley.

You guys have got to be kidding me!

You guys are given empty promises of future rewards by your eternal geopolitical threat, and you decide that's a good enough reason to spill your own blood fighting their other fearsome enemies, whom may I more are not and will not be a threat to us at least until we have expanded enough to deal with them. It's perfidious Albion offering future money to get it's enemies to fight each other in the neolithic.

Even if his offer was genuine, it would be geopolitical imbecility to go along with it. They are in a similar situation with us as we were with the white clans right after wolf/bear unification (which ended in our favour through wolf's diplomatic deception): one tribe has a much higher potential for population and the other has a stronger military. When we were small we were scared of the mountain clans but now we treat with them from a position of equality or even strength, given time undisturbed our inherently more bountiful land let us surpass them, likewise the lowlanders were a couple of refugees living in a burnt out husk and just a couple of generations ago they were constructing satellite villages to raid us from and keep us small contained and compliant. They are treating us like we treated our own pet clan of mountain folk, like a March to slowly and eventually assume control over. And look at where they are now, originally paid to fight our enemies and now their chieftain attends our council meetings and follows our religion. In a few generations they will be erased, having been subsumed into the clan. Will we be subsumed by a richer, more populous polity, be forgotten, be erased in the sea of grass ?

NO!

This beast was not slain in the cradle, we must now do so while it is yet in the crib for we will never have another opportunity before their tribe subsumes ours and crowds us out from access to the great lake by sheer population growth. There is a reason why farmers were the foundation of every high civilization. Once established enough the surplus food let's them drown out everyone else by sheer weight of numbers. Until we expand into the very same fertile farmlands they occupy along the river we cannot afford agricultural tribes to grow raid-free.

We strike now while they are distracted with raiders to the south.

Furthermore I propose that we make sure our hereditary enemy may never again rise up to strike at us by making it an everyturn habit for our warriors to burn their fields to make sure their population growth does not outpace ours.

Lastly if we are to embark on such a course of action we must make sure this envoy does not get back to them. We kill him and we march south.
 
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[X] Refuse the deal. Raid Brushcrest as planned. Whoever these People of Makar are, they are no danger to Greenvalley.
 
[X] Refuse the deal. Raid Brushcrest as planned. Whoever these People of Makar are, they are no danger to Greenvalley.

@Ritos sold me on 'perfidious Albion'. The British Empire can sod off with its foreign policy of 'constant interests'.
 
[X] Refuse the deal. Raid Brushcrest as planned. Whoever these People of Makar are, they are no danger to Greenvalley.
Adhoc vote count started by Ghostdevil on Sep 1, 2018 at 9:26 AM, finished with 153 posts and 36 votes.
  • [X] Plan Jolly Cooperation
    [X] Refuse the deal. Raid Brushcrest as planned. Whoever these People of Makar are, they are no danger to Greenvalley.
    [X] Plan Acceptable Cooperation
    -[X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
    --[X] Brushcrest will allow Speaker to Preach in Brushcrest.
    --[X] Water Maidens are allowed access but are NOT allowed to preach.
    --[X] Brushcrest will not build another village or outpost along the river of the Valley People.
    [X] Plan Brushcrest Delenda Est (& Longhouses)
    -[X] Train the workers to do more specialized things:
    --[X] Train Hunters
    ---[X] Heavy Infantry
    --[X] Train Fishers
    -[X] Raid someone:
    --[X] Brushcrest
    ---[X] 1 x Heavy (Veteran), 1 x Archers (Veteran), 1 x Light Infantry from the Valley Peoples
    ---[X] Offer 0.25 Tools (Obsidian) total and a share of the loot/pop to Antler Clans for up to two hunter pops.
    ---[X] Offer 0.2 -- 0.4 Tools (Obsidian) total to be split amongst volunteers from White Clans and a share of the loot/pop (see Council Action)
    -[X] Preach
    --[X] Continue the work with the White Clans:
    ---[X] Bring Bone-Tenders to the mountains and establish them among the wandering groups of clansmen.
    -[X] Try to make contact with someone.
    --[X] With whom: White Clans
    ---[X] Council of Three Representative authorized to offer up to 0.4 Tools (Obsidian) in total, split amongst each pop of volunteer hunters (expected: 0.2 Tools/pop). Also, a share of the loot, with one pop of hunters = 1 share. Note: subjugated pops do not count as "loot".
    [X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
    -[X] A Portion of the loot as well as allowing Speaker to talk in Brushcrest.
    [X] Refuse to send warriors to assist Bushcrest. However, offer a truce. You will agree not to attack or raid Bushcrest for an entire generation, and in turn Bushcrest will not attempt to secure Lakefort, and will allow Greenvally to build their own fortifications there unimpeded.
    -[X] Offer to buy some of Bushcrest's goods peacefully by establishing trade ties.
    [X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
    -[X] Brushcrest will bend the knee and become a tributary of the Valley Peoples. A tributary payment will be sent every turn from Brushcrest to the Valley, with exact terms to be negotiated later. In return their chieftain and council will gain the right to represent themselves before the Council of Three, but not a voice in the succession, and the other rights expected will be withheld. Though, should Brushcrest ever become a village of the Valley Peoples, said rights will be accorded.
    -[X] Brushcrest will give up the right to make alliances, declare war or raid other powers without Council approval, but smaller things are fine. Current alliances will be respected unless broken.
    -[X] Brushcrest will allow the Speaker and Bone tenders to preach freely in Brushcrest, and will see to it that no harm will come to them.
    -[X] The Water Maidens will not be allowed to preach in Greenvalley or to the Clans. They may send expeditions up the Gentle River, but they must not set foot on Greenvalley soil under penalty of summary execution. They may, however, request help from river dwellers if necessary.
    -[X] Members of the water faith will not be allowed to settle in the Valley or amongst the Clans.
    -[X] Brushcrest will not build north into the lands of the Valley People, or attempt to block passage down the river. They may expand east or west or try to cross the seas, if they wish.
    -[X] In return Brushcrest will be under the protection of the Valley People, and the Valley People will see to it that they are not destroyed.
    -[X] Explain that they are asking us to turn from an enemy to an ally on basically nothing but their word. Tribute might seem a steep cost, but the benefits will be worth it; no more raiding from all sides, destroying their every effort. Without raiding taking its toll, they should easily be able to pay tribute and continue to grow. A few shells is a cheap price for safety.
    [x] Plan Loot and only loot
    -[x] Clarify the war goal of Brushcrest. If it is defense without raiding Markar then we ask for 4 units of seashell in exchange. If it is counter raid then we ask for 1.5 unit of seashell and at least 2/3 of the spoil of war.
    -[x] Maintain that Greenvalley will be the sole commander of GV force, but our chosen commander will try to work with Brushcrest.
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[X] Refuse the deal. Raid Brushcrest as planned. Whoever these People of Makar are, they are no danger to Greenvalley.
 
[X] Refuse the deal. Raid Brushcrest as planned. Whoever these People of Makar are, they are no danger to Greenvalley.
 
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