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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

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OMG they have a hero unit.

I say we take the diplomacy, show everyone that they do not fuck with us, and then have our Speaker convert them.

[X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
-[X] A Portion of the loot as well as allowing Speaker to talk in Brushcrest.

Should we ask for food upfront?

@Satar

How do you feel about converting them? They say they have allies so we won't be alone. It's a chance to steal some more tech. As long as we don't charge to the thick of the fighting and have good defenses with us we should be fine.

@Azel

When is the attack happening? Can we take a builder to make or improve defenses?
 
Satar said:
@natruska can you add

[] Brushcrest will not build anything north of their village or on the rivers owned by the Valley People.

So they don't build another Lakefort?

Other than that, [] Plan Jolly Cooperation is perfect.
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Added, plus a thing explaining why they should accept this. They're traders and farmers first, and hopefully they'll understand that the tribute isn't much compared to the cost of raiding and war.

If somebody else can figure out exact numbers for how much we want of what, that'd be nice.
 
Ancient Scholar said:
Should we ask for food upfront?

@Satar
How do you feel about converting them? They say they have allies so we won't be alone. It's a chance to steal some more tech. As long as we don't charge to the thick of the fighting and have good defenses with us we should be fine.
When is the attack happening? Can we take a builder to make or improve defenses?
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We can't trade food because no pottery. Plan Jolly Cooperation includes, as part of the process of becoming a tributary, conversion. Builders...we can't afford for our stone-working to become common knowledge, so that's out.

natruska said:
Added, plus a thing explaining why they should accept this. They're traders and farmers first, and hopefully they'll understand that the tribute isn't much compared to the cost of raiding and war.

If somebody else can figure out exact numbers for how much we want of what, that'd be nice.
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Economically, we're in the same situation we were before division of labor: we need woodcutters, obsidian miners, and artisans to make more tools so we can get more farmers, hunters, herders, and fishermen. But especially farmers.

So preferably we want Wood, Flint Tools, or Wooden Tools. Sea shells are a nice addition, but not solving the looming tool shortage will be disastrous.
 
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Hmm, this is kind of hard when we don't know how much they actually have that we can take. Lumber seems to be their main export, and they buy flint tools from the west (or at least, they did a while back.) I'm thinking 1.5 Wood, plus some tools and shells and stuff, as a starting point. That'll basically act as a free woodcutter, no serfs required. Might need to do some haggling with Azel tomorrow on the specifics.
 
Once the river raiders are dealt with Brushcrest will just ignore our tribute demands, they are not weaker than us and have mercenary contact's. At most we will get one turn tribute and minimal conversions before they declare themselves free and avoid paying a noticeable amount for our aid. Attacking the raiders now and Brushcrest next turn is the most profitable path.
 
nat_401 said:
Once the river raiders are dealt with Brushcrest will just ignore our tribute demands, they are not weaker than us and have mercenary contact's. At most we will get one turn tribute and minimal conversions before they declare themselves free and avoid paying a noticeable amount for our aid. Attacking the raiders now and Brushcrest next turn is the most profitable path.
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This will have us doing a blood oath so we wont be able to break the deal. We cant attack them next turn if we do this.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
This will have us doing a blood oath so we wont be able to break the deal. We cant attack them next turn if we do this.
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The deal is not for ever, we are not promicing to never attack them again, just untill the Makar worshippers are dealt with, the blood oath in the update is just the diplomat promising this is not a trick.
 
On one hand this seems like a good opportunity but on the other I see no reason why they can't back out of the deal later. This is hard.

[X] Refuse the deal. Raid Brushcrest as planned. Whoever these People of Makar are, they are no danger to Greenvalley.
 
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I don't understand what we get from acceptable cooperation. We don't want to be friends with Brushcrest, we want to be their suzerain and fold them into our empire eventually. Are you guys really gonna give up on raiding them just because "now we can send them priests, even though they won't convert?"


Profectus said:
On one hand this seems like a good opportunity but on the other I see no reason why they can't back out of the deal later. This is hard.
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If they back out of the deal, then we kill the crap out of them. Even if they get a military, we still have ridiculous morale buffs and other goodies. They don't want to fight wars, if we get them as a tributary they probably won't leave unless the cost gets unbearable.
 
[X] Plan Jolly Cooperation

I this succeeds, then wonderful. If not, we continue as planned, with the added benefit of the other raiders working them over to.
 
Preliminary Tally
Adhoc vote count started by Azel on Aug 8, 2018 at 3:38 AM, finished with 5167 posts and 21 votes.
  • [X] Plan Jolly Cooperation
    [X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
    -[X] Brushcrest will bend the knee and become a tributary of the Valley Peoples. A tributary payment will be sent every turn from Brushcrest to the Valley, with exact terms to be negotiated later. In return their chieftain and council will gain the right to represent themselves before the Council of Three, but not a voice in the succession, and the other rights expected will be withheld. Though, should Brushcrest ever become a village of the Valley Peoples, said rights will be accorded.
    -[X] Brushcrest will give up the right to make alliances, declare war or raid other powers without Council approval, but smaller things are fine. Current alliances will be respected unless broken.
    -[X] Brushcrest will allow the Speaker and Bone tenders to preach freely in Brushcrest, and will see to it that no harm will come to them.
    -[X] The Water Maidens will not be allowed to preach in Greenvalley or to the Clans. They may send expeditions up the Gentle River, but they must not set foot on Greenvalley soil under penalty of summary execution. They may, however, request help from river dwellers if necessary.
    -[X] Members of the water faith will not be allowed to settle in the Valley or amongst the Clans.
    -[X] Brushcrest will not build north into the lands of the Valley People, or attempt to block passage down the river. They may expand east or west or try to cross the seas, if they wish.
    -[X] In return Brushcrest will be under the protection of the Valley People, and the Valley People will see to it that they are not destroyed.
    -[X] Explain that they are asking us to turn from an enemy to an ally on basically nothing but their word. Tribute might seem a steep cost, but the benefits will be worth it; no more raiding from all sides, destroying their every effort. Without raiding taking its toll, they should easily be able to pay tribute and continue to grow. A few shells is a cheap price for safety.
    [X] Plan Acceptable Cooperation
    -[X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
    --[X] Brushcrest will allow Speaker to Preach in Brushcrest.
    --[X] Water Maidens are allowed access but are NOT allowed to preach.
    --[X] Brushcrest will not build another village or outpost along the river of the Valley People.
    [X] Refuse the deal. Raid Brushcrest as planned. Whoever these People of Makar are, they are no danger to Greenvalley.
    [X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
    -[X] A Portion of the loot as well as allowing Speaker to talk in Brushcrest.
    [X] Refuse to send warriors to assist Bushcrest. However, offer a truce. You will agree not to attack or raid Bushcrest for an entire generation, and in turn Bushcrest will not attempt to secure Lakefort, and will allow Greenvally to build their own fortifications there unimpeded.
    -[X] Offer to buy some of Bushcrest's goods peacefully by establishing trade ties.
    [X] Plan Bend Thy Knee
    [X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
    -[X] Brushcrest will bend the knee and become a tributary of the Valley Peoples. A tributary payment will be sent every turn from Brushcrest to the Valley, with exact terms to be negotiated later. In return their chieftain and council will gain the right to represent themselves before the Council of Three, but not a voice in the succession, and the other rights expected will be withheld. Though, should Brushcrest ever become a village of the Valley Peoples, said rights will be accorded.
    -[X] Brushcrest will give up the right to make major deals (alliances, etc) with foreign powers without Council approval, though smaller things like trade deals are fine.
    -[X] Brushcrest will allow the Speaker and Bone tenders to preach freely in Brushcrest, and will see to it that no harm will come to them.
    -[X] Brushcrest will share of their (not-religious) knowledge freely and without reservation.
    -[X] Brushcrest will be allowed to maintain its faith but Water Maidens and that water faith will not be allowed to preach outside Brushcrest and its outlying villages. Attempting to preach to the Valley People, White Clans, or other parties without the express permission of the Bone-Tenders and Council of Three will be considered an act of violation, and punishable by execution of both the offender and close family.
    -[X] Members of the water faith will not be allowed to settle in the Valley or amongst the White Clans.
    -[X] In return Brushcrest will be under the protection of the Valley People, and the Valley People will see to it that they are not destroyed.
    [X] Plan War Tribute
    -[X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
    --[X] Brushcrest will supply The Valley with Food in exchange for their services
    --[X] Brushcrest will allow Speaker to preach in their village
    --[X] The Valley will allow the Maidens access to the Valley.
    [x] Plan Loot and only loot
    -[x] Clarify the war goal of Brushcrest. If it is defense without raiding Markar then we ask for 4 units of seashell in exchange. If it is counter raid then we ask for 1.5 unit of seashell and at least 2/3 of the spoil of war.
    -[x] Maintain that Greenvalley will be the sole commander of GV force, but our chosen commander will try to work with Brushcrest.
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Plan Jolly Cooperation actually makes sense. They said they wanted to trade and be diplomatic, fine, for lumber, tools, and sea shells, and bending the knee, they can avoid raids from the north.

We're running low on Wood, Tools (Wood) and, in 4-5 turns, Tools (Obsidian). Getting these things from Brushcrest each turn will go a long way to softening our logistical issues and allow us to break past our pop cap and climb up into the 30 pop range.
 
@Azel
Something wrong with your tally, some people are counted twice.

For example Satar in his old plan and cooperation and Ghostdevil in leader and follow-up.
 
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