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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest

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[X] [Leadership] The tribe needed stronger leaders then the council, thus Snow-Fox and Red-Wolf would lead it as chieftains. (Government becomes Tribal Chiefdom, ???)
[X] [Dead] Bury them by the new rites. The exception made for of lesser clans to keep to their old rites is a privilege that these traitors do not deserve.
 
Deliste said:
Wasn't really intended to be a gesture of reconciliation
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Nevermind then. I have misread your intentions.

The story about all of this will be definitely remembered either way, if that's your concern. And thoroughly mangled to fit the narrative future generations deem the most "true to the spirit of the tale". Pre-Writing cultures are funny like that.
 
[X] [Leadership] The tribe needed stronger leaders then the council, thus Snow-Fox and Red-Wolf would lead it as chieftains. (Government becomes Tribal Chiefdom, ???)
[X] [Dead] Bury them by the new rites. The exception made for of lesser clans to keep to their old rites is a privilege that these traitors do not deserve.
 
[X] veekie

Factions aren't going to go away, regardless of what government type we pick.
I would prefer to have at least some representation for the people of the Tribe to be able to air their grievances instead of going straight to authoritarianism.
The Chiefdom might not start out hereditary, but I imagine that the children of the two Great Hunters will be exceptional enough to also become Chiefs. At that point inertia will be able to carry their children into the position, and hereditary rule is formed.

The old system had the flaw of tying seats to the original factions without being able to adapt to changing circumstances, but the new system will be far more flexible to suit the needs of the tribe.
 
[X] [Leadership] The tribe needed stronger leaders then the council, thus Snow-Fox and Red-Wolf would lead it as chieftains. (Government becomes Tribal Chiefdom, ???)
[X] [Dead] Take off their heads and put them on stakes around the village. The tribe is strong and it behooves everyone to remember the price of attacking it.

Let's face it. We will never be saints. We accept the cannibalism, although not openly yet and we used to make bone pillars to piss off the enemy, not to mention that every single conflict so far evolved into a really bloody mess. We are better off accepting and embracing our blood lust. Burring the dead while honorable, might give people the wrong message. To prevent potential future uprisings we should make people stop thinking that "it's better to die while fighting for your cause". Nope, not when we are your enemy. If you die while fighting our clan, you won't simply sacrifice yourself in order to become an inspiration for future rebels. Not at all, rebels who will loose the battle will loose the war as well, their bodies will become a cruel reminder to all other potential traitors, reminder of what will happen to anyone that will dare to oppose us. Besides, the more cruel we are, the lesser the chance of anyone out-crueling us in the future.
We consume the flesh and we break the spirits.
(The sentence above sounded better in my head...)

If we bury them, even if we say that this is the exception and that they are getting too much mercy than they deserve, future traitors will just see us as people who do not stay strong with their promises. Thus giving future rebels more confidence.

I was split between heads on a pike or dumping them to a river, but I realized that throwing corpses into one of the local water sources will be a pretty bad idea, considering that how this might contaminate the river, with either some plague that will spread in rotting corpses, or by simply poisoning the water with cadaveric poison. Also Veekie mentioned how a bunch of corpses in the river might attract some really unfriendly company.
 
[X] [Leadership] The tribe needed stronger leaders then the council, thus Snow-Fox and Red-Wolf would lead it as chieftains. (Government becomes Tribal Chiefdom, ???)
[X] [Dead] Bury them by the new rites. The exception made for of lesser clans to keep to their old rites is a privilege that these traitors do not deserve.
 
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DicerTheJester said:
[X] [Leadership] The tribe needed stronger leaders then the council, thus Snow-Fox and Red-Wolf would lead it as chieftains. (Government becomes Tribal Chiefdom, ???)
[X] [Dead] Take off their heads and put them on stakes around the village. The tribe is strong and it behooves everyone to remember the price of attacking it.

Let's face it. We will never be saints. We accept the cannibalism, although not openly yet and we used to make bone pillars to piss off the enemy, not to mention that every single conflict so far evolved into a really bloody mess. We are better off accepting and embracing our blood lust. Burring the dead while honorable, might give people the wrong message. To prevent potential future uprisings we should make people stop thinking that "it's better to die while fighting for your cause". Nope, not when we are your enemy. If you die while fighting our clan, you won't simply sacrifice yourself in order to become an inspiration for future rebels. Not at all, rebels who will loose the battle will loose the war as well, their bodies will become a cruel reminder to all other potential traitors, reminder of what will happen to anyone that will dare to oppose us. Besides, the more cruel we are, the lesser the chance of anyone out-crueling us in the future.
We consume the flesh and we break the spirits.
(The sentence above sounded better in my head...)

If we bury them, even if we say that this is the exception and that they are getting too much mercy than they deserve, future traitors will just see us as people who do not stay strong with their promises. Thus giving future rebels more confidence.

I was split between heads on a pike or dumping them to a river, but I realized that throwing corpses into one of the local water sources will be a pretty bad idea, considering that how this might contaminate the river, with either some plague that will spread in rotting corpses, or by simply poisoning the water with cadaveric poison. Also Veekie mentioned how a bunch of corpses in the river might attract some really unfriendly company.
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You do realize that most of the people who rebelled were horribly slaughtered, right?
The only people who would really be cowed by the stakes were the rebelling clans (who essentially no longer exist at this point, as said by Red Wolf), and it would likely just deter any potential traders from approaching the village.

No civilization can ever be considered saints, but that doesn't mean you have to jump off the cliff into being terrible.
 
[X] [Leadership] The tribe needed stronger leaders then the council, thus Snow-Fox and Red-Wolf would lead it as chieftains. (Government becomes Tribal Chiefdom, ???)
 
Raichu1972 said:
You do realize that most of the people who rebelled were horribly slaughtered, right?
The only people who would really be cowed by the stakes were the rebelling clans (who essentially no longer exist at this point, as said by Red Wolf), and it would likely just deter any potential traders from approaching the village.

No civilization can ever be considered saints, but that doesn't mean you have to jump off the cliff into being terrible.
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The Aztecs did quite well by being by far the most vicious bastards in the area.
 
[X] [Leadership] The council would be restructured. The seats would be no longer tied to one group, but whenever one was vacant, any villager of good standing could become the new Councillor. (Council positions no longer tied to one specific faction, ???)
[X] [Dead] Bury them by the new rites. The exception made for of lesser clans to keep to their old rites is a privilege that these traitors do not deserve.
 
Raichu1972 said:
You do realize that most of the people who rebelled were horribly slaughtered, right?
The only people who would really be cowed by the stakes were the rebelling clans (who essentially no longer exist at this point, as said by Red Wolf), and it would likely just deter any potential traders from approaching the village.

No civilization can ever be considered saints, but that doesn't mean you have to jump off the cliff into being terrible.
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Good point, but still I think that head on a pike is the most logical idea. While I can see most of the future traders being scared off by our decorations, I can also see a potential, to boost our economy with our reputation. Let's say that one thing comes to another and we are considered the most bloodthirsty guys around, but thanks to our planning we are not just some dumb brutes, but a pretty fearsome warriors.

And how does that boost our economy?
Let's say that instead of focusing our i on exchanging items, we will focus on services.
Mercenary services.
We will help those who needs help with some tasks that require spilling blood.
Hunting, escorting, killing etc.
All by lending people some of our people, that will be known all around the area as battle crazy intelligent bastards you wouldn't want to screw with.
All for a reasonable price of course.
Because while items can be copied or stoled from us and thus helping others profit from something we did, services are connected directly to our skills, and while some people might try to spy on us to learn our ways of planning for example, I really doubt they will think it's a good idea if they have to sneak through a forest of impaled corpses to get close to our place.

In other words: let's be professional sick battle crazy maniacs for hire.
What do you think?
 
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Azel said:
The Aztecs did quite well by being by far the most vicious bastards in the area.
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The Aztecs did well, but they were also surrounded by people who hated them so much that they were willing to work with foreign invaders to murder them all.
Being a vicious bastard works, but so does not being a vicious bastard.
I would prefer to at least attempt to not become Khorne worshipers.
 
Tally:
Adhoc vote count started by gutza1 on Jun 29, 2018 at 11:09 AM, finished with 1466 posts and 31 votes.
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DicerTheJester said:
Good point, but still I think that head on a pike is the most logical idea. While I can see most of the future traders being scared off by our decorations, I can also see a potential, to boost our economy with our reputation. Let's say that one thing comes to another and we are considered the most bloodthirsty guys around, but thanks to our planning we are not just some dumb brutes, but a pretty fearsome warriors.

And how does that boost our economy?
Let's say that instead of focusing our i on exchanging items, we will focus on services.
Mercenary services.
We will help those who needs help with some tasks that require spilling blood.
Hunting, escorting, killing etc.
All by lending people some of our people, that will be known all around the area as battle crazy intelligent bastards you wouldn't want you wouldn't want to screw with.
All for a reasonable price of course.
Because while items can be copied or stoled from us and thus helping others profit from something we did, services are connected directly to our skills, and while some people might try to spy on us to learn our ways of planning for example, I really doubt they will think it's a good idea if they have to sneak through a forest of impaled corpses to get close to our place.

In other words: let's be professional sick battle crazy maniacs for hire.
What do you think?
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I'm not sure you understand just how small populations are in Stone Age tribes.
We probably have like, 300 people max, and out of those 300 only around 20-30 hunters.

We don't have the manpower to send people off raiding randoms, especially since we've been fighting someone or something almost constantly since the beginning of the quest.
Being a mercenary also requires so way to ensure that you get something in return for your services, which would be essentially impossible for us since we barely even know how trade works.

And if you happen to be speaking of the far future, then I imagine mercenaries would not be the highest priority. There are some in thread who really seem bloodthirsty, and they would likely prefer to use any warriors in conquering people instead of selling their services.

So overall, I think it's a rather silly justification for putting skulls on stakes.
 
Reorganizing the council only needs two more votes. If anyone wants to preserve representational government instead of becoming a generic authoritarian monarchy, vote now.
 
Raichu1972 said:
I'm not sure you understand just how small populations are in Stone Age tribes.
We probably have like, 300 people max, and out of those 300 only around 20-30 hunters.

We don't have the manpower to send people off raiding randoms, especially since we've been fighting someone or something almost constantly since the beginning of the quest.
Being a mercenary also requires so way to ensure that you get something in return for your services, which would be essentially impossible for us since we barely even know how trade works.

And if you happen to be speaking of the far future, then I imagine mercenaries would not be the highest priority. There are some in thread who really seem bloodthirsty, and they would likely prefer to use any warriors in conquering people instead of selling their services.

So overall, I think it's a rather silly justification for putting skulls on stakes.
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Well, I was actually speaking of far future. But yeah, I can see that people would prefer to raid and pillage for our own sake, rather than becoming swords for hire. Still, I will stand with the head on a pike, cause I still think that calling burial an "exception" might make us look like some soft guys that do not stay strong with their ideals, which will bring mostly if not only bad stuff.
 
Raichu1972 said:
The Aztecs did well, but they were also surrounded by people who hated them so much that they were willing to work with foreign invaders to murder them all.
Being a vicious bastard works, but so does not being a vicious bastard.
I would prefer to at least attempt to not become Khorne worshipers.
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I merely wanted to point out that there are examples where it works.

Marlin said:
@Azel ,threadmark " Uprising - 3 " lost, nonexistant.
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Labelling failure on my part. The most recent one is number 3, not 4.
 
I still would prefer becoming some kind of merchant republic/trading civilization like Carthage. Maybe we could even invent democracy like the Greeks. It sounds more interesting than the generic Hegemonic Empire.
 
Azel said:
The Aztecs did quite well by being by far the most vicious bastards in the area.
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Its a Win And Keep Winning strategy, being vicious works as long as you're the top dog and can bring you long periods of not being fucked with because nobody dares. But once you show weakness, everyone is going to move in on you.

Sort of similar with authoritarianism and collectivism, it quashes dissent very effectively, until you reach critical mass because you never even HEAR of dissent until its too late to do anything about it.
 
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