The Lighthouses and the Pit (Fantasy Mage Quest)

Narratively I strongly dislike the "Escort the Merchants" option. Swallow was a compassionate character, sacrificing civilians for personal safety might be the more pragmatic option but it is moving away from his original nature. It is the option that means Jagged Edge has convinced us that mages are inherently worth more than non-mages.
Did you not read the last update? They are very clearly worth more. Each and every one of those merchants had a bow with them, and I doubt that they could have killed a single Darkling all together much less a pack of them, so they would have all been killed numerous times over in any of the situations we've encountered.

Jagged Edge has done so every day without fail, unceasingly and without the merchants being hurt, while providing kills in order to power up our own character. Endangering him doesn't remotely seem wise given we know that our character himself doesn't think himself strong enough kill one pack on his own, much less however many Darklings are left between where we are and the city. So Jagged Edge's survival is paramount, as his survival means that every other persons chances of living jump through the roof.

If you think we're not good enough to escort the merchants just to the tree lines, which is the core of this entire mission, while someone else holds the bulk of the Darklings off, then that in of itself should tell you something and that we're not yet ready yet. Taking the fate point doesn't really do much, it just ensures we get the kill. However it's pretty irrelevant if either Swallow or Jagged gets it, as either way Swallow is going to get stronger from Jagged training him anyway. And fate points should be better spent on turning a losing situation into a winning one, or for our own survival IMO.

Kill the Greatspider (COSTS A FATE POINT) - Distraction? No, you have mobility and offense on your side. You could make this work. Maybe. Probably! It sounds insane, but if you flung yourself into the attack recklessly enough, and got lucky enough, you could avoid its attacks, use distance to jump up, and slice into its brain. Or cut off one of its legs and do the same. It'd be dangerous, but it'd probably impress Edge, and also the power boost would be considerable.
There's also a side note that Swallows internal reasoning seems very questionable within this option, as it sounds like the exact opposite of what would impress Jagged Edge.
 
[X] Kill the Greatspider (COSTS A FATE POINT)

It seems more compassionate to take more risks onto Swallow here, and I would like to see a boss killing scene, even if it costs a Fate point. Worth it for some badass, and the power growth is good.
 
[X] Kill the Greatspider (COSTS A FATE POINT)

It seems more compassionate to take more risks onto Swallow here, and I would like to see a boss killing scene, even if it costs a Fate point. Worth it for some badass, and the power growth is good.
Were you mistaken in reading the update? As we're getting a boss killing scene either way.
 
Did you not read the last update? They are very clearly worth more. Each and every one of those merchants had a bow with them, and I doubt that they could have killed a single Darkling all together much less a pack of them, so they would have all been killed numerous times over in any of the situations we've encountered.

Jagged Edge has done so every day without fail, unceasingly and without the merchants being hurt, while providing kills in order to power up our own character. Endangering him doesn't remotely seem wise given we know that our character himself doesn't think himself strong enough kill one pack on his own, much less however many Darklings are left between where we are and the city. So Jagged Edge's survival is paramount, as his survival means that every other persons chances of living jump through the roof.

If you think we're not good enough to escort the merchants just to the tree lines, which is the core of this entire mission, while someone else holds the bulk of the Darklings off, then that in of itself should tell you something and that we're not yet ready yet. Taking the fate point doesn't really do much, it just ensures we get the kill. However it's pretty irrelevant if either Swallow or Jagged gets it, as either way Swallow is going to get stronger from Jagged training him anyway. And fate points should be better spent on turning a losing situation into a winning one, or for our own survival IMO.


There's also a side note that Swallows internal reasoning seems very questionable within this option, as it sounds like the exact opposite of what would impress Jagged Edge.

"They are very clearly worth more." Against the Darklings, of course bladebound are. Just as farmers are worth more than bladebound in food growing.
I used the word inherently, not just this situation. Do you want Swallow to believe those with magic are fundamentally better than those without?
Jagged Edge killed a girl as punishment for Swallow's mistake, I do not want Swallow to take the position that murdering disabled people is reasonable.

"Endangering him doesn't remotely seem wise" which is why I am not in favour of Distract the Greatspider.

"If you think we're not good enough to escort the merchants just to the tree lines" The update says Escort the Merchants is "you run with the merchants towards the other treeline", absolutely nothing about protecting them.
"while someone else holds the bulk of the Darklings off" Jagged Edge said "I'll take down the Darklings, Spinewolves first", nothing about holding off the bulk of the Darklings.
The Escort the Merchants option is Swallow and the merchants run to the trees and climb them for safety from the wolves. Jagged Edge follows, and kills the distracted Spinewolves.
Swallow will be safer due to being faster than the merchants and so reach safety first. Jagged Edge will be safer because the wolves will be distracted killing the merchants and not surrounding him.

"like the exact opposite of what would impress Jagged Edge." Perhaps because Jagged Edge values results over methods, a major victory might impress him. Maybe Swallow is right, maybe he is wrong.


Jagged Edge is a good character, with a strong sense of (utilitarian) ethics. But that does not mean Swallow should adopt the same morality.
Swallow gaining power due to the desire to protect others, seems to be a better quest.


EDIT:
"Did you not read the last update?"
Why do you think disagreeing with you means not reading the update?
 
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The way I see it Jagged would be impressed if we blew the fate point because A. he can't see fate points, and B. we'll have just taken down a powerful Darkling even he couldn't trivially deal with. Like yeah we're still prone to hero syndrome but a hero that can take down anything in her path is EXACTLY the sort of person Jagged could respect-keep her away from the planning table but let her loose on the battlefield-that sort of thing.
 
How many Fate points do we possess currently? I've (roughly) read through quest but there doesn't seem to be any tally of Fate points on the character sheet or elsewhere.
 
How many Fate points do we possess currently? I've (roughly) read through quest but there doesn't seem to be any tally of Fate points on the character sheet or elsewhere.
One.

There is no tally.

We can get them from omakes, insightful discussion etc and they can be spent to turn failure into success or achieving impossible results.

Swallow would auto-fail at killing the spider, the fate point turns it into an auto-success.
The problem is we will be unable to take any high risk actions after this until we gain another.
 
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One.

There is no tally.
If our generation is slow, then it is likely more pragmatic to switch to save it for our next Ascension, which could be a significant powerup if we choose a good job*. Hn. We don't appear to be in extreme immediate danger for now, so I'll switch to this

[X] Escort the Merchants

*we probably want Runesmith or Canceller or Thunderfist, these appear to have good synergies with our current build. Unless the other Towers have something completely broken.
 
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If our generation is slow, then it is likely more pragmatic to switch to save it for our next Ascension, which could be a significant powerup if we choose a external type job. Hn. We don't appear to be in extreme immediate danger for now, so I'll switch to this.

[X] Escort the Merchants

The next Ascension is many updates away, while we will need Fate points to even attempt it, we have plenty of time. We are a beginner Bladebound, there is no point in gaining another form of magic until we are at least competent in our current form.
In the short/medium term, the best way to increase power is by spending a Fate point. If not on this spider then on a later option.

While we are not in immediate danger, sacrificing people to keep Swallow safe is not something I would like to do. If we had no Fate points, it would be a good choice. Spending a fate point for a considerable immediate power up and protecting the people we are here to protect seems a better choice.
 
The next Ascension is many updates away, while we will need Fate points to even attempt it, we have plenty of time. We are a beginner Bladebound, there is no point in gaining another form of magic until we are at least competent in our current form.
In the short/medium term, the best way to increase power is by spending a Fate point. If not on this spider then on a later option.

While we are not in immediate danger, sacrificing people to keep Swallow safe is not something I would like to do. If we had no Fate points, it would be a good choice. Spending a fate point for a considerable immediate power up and protecting the people we are here to protect seems a better choice.
In order:
  1. It's already been several updates since our first Ascension, and we only have one FP. We did generate one and spent it, but that is still something like 2 FP per adventure. With current generation rates it is likely it'll take two adventures to get to Second Ascension, and there are at least six we want to undergo. The pacing seems acceptable to me.
  2. Additionally, it will take lots of time to figure out 3+ Ascension without screwing things up like the Queen did, so we should get 2 Ascensions ASAP.
  3. In short term, we can significantly increase our power by taking an External magic like Breathtaking / Lightning whatever, since the power of those don't depend on skill at all unlike our current path. These won't split our focus from Bladebound skills.
  4. Putting our personal attention on the merchants shouldn't notably increase their chances of dying, I think.
  5. Ignore the crossed, I read the "increased death chance" bit. I think it's interesting, Swallow began walking down a more pragmatic road with Assassination style anyway, we should walk it till we get a dramatic decision point.
 
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In order:
  1. It's already been several updates since our first Ascension, and we only have one FP. We did generate one and spent it, but that is still something like 2 FP per adventure. With current generation rates it is likely it'll take two adventures to get to Second Ascension, and there are at least six we want to undergo. The pacing seems acceptable to me.
  2. In short term, we can significantly increase our power by taking an External magic like Breathtaking / Lightning whatever, since the power of those don't depend on skill at all unlike our current path. These won't split our focus from Bladebound skills.
  3. Putting our personal attention on the merchants shouldn't notably increase their chances of dying, I think.
1. FP generation is hard to predict, but I think people may create omakes/artworks to gain FP when we approach the next tower.
2. Magic allocation, training time and teachers. Swallow is currently learning Bladebound spells/skills from skilled Bladebound, if she starts learning from another school she will be training those spells not gaining more Bladebound ones. Bladebound permanently put the magic they gain into their abilities, any magic kept in a pool of magic is magic not in a Bladebound skill.
3. The option says "They're more likely to die". Once they leave the wagons to run for the trees, the nine wolves will chase and kill them. Escorting them only means some will survive the run. The other choices have them remain in the wagons with Jagged Edge killing the wolves as they approach, much safer for the merchants. Distracting the spider means Jagged Edge will fight the spider after tiring himself protecting the merchants.
 
I don't like the fucker, but so far Jagged Edge has been more than fair to us on this expedition. Do we really want to piss him off by disregarding his orders?

Even if it didn't cost a Fate Point, I don't think killing the spider ourselves is worth angering an important ally.
 
I don't like the fucker, but so far Jagged Edge has been more than fair to us on this expedition. Do we really want to piss him off by disregarding his orders?

Even if it didn't cost a Fate Point, I don't think killing the spider ourselves is worth angering an important ally.
It is 50\50. The option says it may impress him, but of course the result could be angering him. He will continue to train Swallow either way.

Jagged Edge will likely see Swallow as a reckless fool, but more importantly a successful reckless fool.

If the result is an annoyed Edge, then he will refuse Swallow future escort missions.
If the result is Jagged being impressed with Swallow, then he will increase the resources/options available to Swallow.
 
There's also a side note that Swallows internal reasoning seems very questionable within this option, as it sounds like the exact opposite of what would impress Jagged Edge.
I'm not sure it is. Edge wants us to stop being naive and putting ourselves and our colleagues at risk, that doesn't necessarily mean not being impressed by us killing a Greatspider by ourself. It'd just mean we're even more valuable, making it even more important he force us to understand his cold pragmatic ways.

The next Ascension is many updates away, while we will need Fate points to even attempt it, we have plenty of time. We are a beginner Bladebound, there is no point in gaining another form of magic until we are at least competent in our current form.
In the short/medium term, the best way to increase power is by spending a Fate point. If not on this spider then on a later option.

While we are not in immediate danger, sacrificing people to keep Swallow safe is not something I would like to do. If we had no Fate points, it would be a good choice. Spending a fate point for a considerable immediate power up and protecting the people we are here to protect seems a better choice.
If you want a nice inbetween for not wasting a limited resource while not putting our charges at risk, vote to distract the spider! There's no need to rush to kill it! :p
 
I'm not sure it is. Edge wants us to stop being naive and putting ourselves and our colleagues at risk, that doesn't necessarily mean not being impressed by us killing a Greatspider by ourself. It'd just mean we're even more valuable, making it even more important he force us to understand his cold pragmatic ways.
Which is exactly what the option says in the text, and IC that is important given to Jagged Edge fate points don't exist so it's far from a great strategy. Swallow himself using phrases like "you could make this work ... probably", "it sounds insane, but if you flung yourself into the attack recklessly enough", and "got lucky", says to me the opposite and that we're either knowingly putting ourselves at risk or that we're being naive to the danger of the Spider.

This cut to the core of what he criticized about us in the first place, about our heroics endangering our life and thus our future usefulness.
 
If you want a nice inbetween for not wasting a limited resource while not putting our charges at risk, vote to distract the spider! There's no need to rush to kill it! :p
That could cost a Fate point anyway(if unlucky), without the gain of being the one to kill it.


Which is exactly what the option says in the text, and IC that is important given to Jagged Edge fate points don't exist so it's far from a great strategy. Swallow himself using phrases like "you could make this work ... probably", "it sounds insane, but if you flung yourself into the attack recklessly enough", and "got lucky", says to me the opposite and that we're either knowingly putting ourselves at risk or that we're being naive to the danger of the Spider.

This cut to the core of what he criticized about us in the first place, about our heroics endangering our life and thus our future usefulness.
The reason she thinks it will impress him is success is what he values.
Last time we spent a FP on something that should have killed Swallow, but didn't. If we succeed another insanely risky attack, then it is evidence that the last time was not just random chance.
Over the past few updates, Swallow has been complying with instructions from Jagged, while still trying to be compassionate to civilians. He has become tolerant of her personality to the point he has offered to protect the merchants over his usual of sacrificing them.

EDIT:
There is also the question of how much luck killing the spider will take. Swallow is speed focused, and conceivably the recent kills could have (it didn't) made her fast enough to kill the spider. Jagged Edge could think that her killing the spider is recent gains and a well spotted opportunity.
The Fate point could cause the spider to stumble at a critical moment, and so Edge will see it as the spider's accident and not reckless Swallow.
 
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Alternatively, the calculations would change were we to write a good omake for FP. Rihaku-style, you know.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by occipitallobe on Apr 18, 2018 at 6:26 AM, finished with 719 posts and 21 votes.
 
It's Not Arachnophobia, It's Reasonable
You quickly intuit Jagged Edge's strategy. If the merchants remain in the wagons, they'll be sitting ducks. Of course, outside the wagons isn't much better but it is something. At least this way they will be able to fan out if necessary, and make it possible to save some of them. For a moment you almost decide to rush the Greatspider, but discard that thought for the insanity that is. You don't particularly want to die.

No, you can't think of anything better in the moment. So you decide to do as Jagged Edge says. You herd the merchants out of the wagons, and start moving them towards the tree line. It's not as if they are any safer there, but it'll give you time to kill the Spinewolves. You draw your swords, and you prepare to fight.

Staying close to the merchants isn't necessarily the best idea. Jagged Edge is clearly aiming to take down as many Spinewolves as he can, to make this combat easier for you. He is running almost full speed away from the Greatspider, swinging his halberd and discarding Spinewolves apart he does so.

Still, the beasts are moving towards you a great speed. The first one rushes you, but you are not quite the callow mage you were before. You swing your swords bringing you a little closer to the creature than it had anticipated, and a second swing carves through it, the impossible sharpness of your blade neatly taking its head off.

You hear a scream and turn. One of the merchants has had his arm torn off, a Spinewolf chewing at the remainder of the shoulder. You start to move to help, but see another Spinewolf moving towards another merchant. The calculus of combat runs through your head. The first merchant is dead. His arm is gone, and the poison in his system will kill him quickly. You have to save the second one.

You rush toward the second Spinewolf, and it turns, and kicks you, foot slamming you into the ground. You swing your sword up desperately, but before it can even begin to bite, a reckless swing of the halberd takes it apart. You stand up again, rush towards the first man, and slice the Spinewolf devouring him into pieces. The creatures are more dangerous than when you faced them previously, but so are you.

Another Spinewolf moves towards the merchants, but you swing your swords and step through distance faster than it can move. It does not quite anticipate your uncanny movement, and while it turns to stop you, it is not quite in time and your swords find another victim.

Another two Spinewolves fall, one entangled in the body of another merchant. Another stroke of the halberd from afar, and the final Spinewolf falls. Two merchants dead, but you are now ready to turn your attention to the Greatspider.

Jagged Edge looks at you. You are by now only ten or also metres apart, and the Greatspider is closing quickly.

"Distract it. Go amongst its legs, and move around it. Do not get close to its jaws. It will regenerate virtually any wound you give it, and you're not fast enough to wound it properly and avoid its retribution. I will hack at the creatures legs. Once it is down, I'll kill it from afar."

You nod, and rush the creature. You run around its legs, using your magic to make yourself hard to hit it and hard to predict. The Greatspider seems less interested in you, but is unable to move quickly towards Jagged Edge as it tries to avoid allowing your blade within reach of its legs. In the meantime, he is hacking furiously away with his halberd, and one leg cracks, splinters, and finally comes off.

The creature redoubles its efforts towards him, and he swings with wild abandon, smashing blow after invisible blow into another leg. Finally it falls, but it closes rapidly on him. Just as you think it will reach him, he swings his halberd and leaps 15 feet in the air, reaching out to cut something intangible. The Greatspider slows down, almost as though it is moving through molasses rather than air.

He dances in close, and with swift strikes cut off another two legs. Then one more. The Greatspider slumps to the ground, legs already regenerating, stumps growing visibly. Within perhaps three or four minutes, it will be entirely whole once more.

"Don't get close. They are just as dangerous even when immobilised."

Jagged Edge swings his halberd again, and moves with amazing speed around to the back of the creature, avoiding its mouth entirely. He swing the halberd down, stabbing repeatedly into what must be its brain.

"That will slow its regeneration down for now."

He looks around.

"We are certainly in no shape to burn it, and and I do not wish to take the time required to kill it. When dying they have a distressing tendency to spit venom, and it is invariably fatal. The blood from the main body is poisonous as well, and if they are close enough to death they seem to be able to direct the gouts of blood. We are lucky it has not begun to do so yet, but I am in no mood to tempt luck."

He takes a deep breath, and begin swinging his halberd once more. Cut after cut after cut goes into the creature, leaving it looking like nothing more than minced meat with a few remaining legs splayed out from it. It is cut into quarters, and yet the pieces are stretching out towards one another, aching to be complete once more

"It finds damage to the main body harder to regenerate. This one won't be up for another few days. Unless we find the correct spot to cut in the correct way, this one won't be dying, and we are not risking our lives staying here. Let's get back to the wagons."

You nod numbly, not any mood to argue. The two of you move alongside the wagons, and the merchants leave the corpses of the friends behind. The remainder of your journey is fairly uneventful, soon you come to see the walls of Everett. Madalgia is a different city, walls of stone and earth. Everett is surrounded by what looks like a great hedge, thriving with vines, birds, and fruits all around it. A great moat surrounds the hedge, razor-sharp ice sparkling inside the moat.

Jagged Edge breathe out heavily, as though he had been holding his breath the last few days.

"We are here. Take an hour or two, Swallow. Meet up with me at the entryway of the city at dusk, we'll go to our lodgings from there."

He tosses you a small coin purse. You open it, and are surprised to find it filled to the brim with gold coins.

"You impressed me earlier. It looks like you took that lesson to heart. Perhaps you'll survive. Anyway, Everett is not like Madalgia. People move through the city freely, and you are welcome wherever you choose to go. There are a few places you might want to consider though..."



[ ] Visit the Alchemists (Shopping Miniturn)

Go visit the Alchemists! You could buy a useful concoction! Even trade favours using your magical contract book for a really useful concoction. You have enough gold for something minor if that's what you want, though.

[ ] Visit the Runesmiths

You can't use what they have, but you can observe it. The Runesmiths can replicate all sorts of magical effects, so they might be worth observing, as you'd potentially gain a broader understanding of magic as a whole.

[ ] Visit the Vineweavers

Plant-wizards are interesting. Plant-wizards that feed the population and defend the city? Moreso. You feel you could learn a lot from them, and potentially trade for some interesting fruits or seeds. Not to mention that Everett lacks Madalgia's chaos and poverty - are the Vineweavers responsible?

[ ] VIsit the Combat Triad

Coldhands, Watersingers, and Stormchasers. All gathered in one guild to use their powers in unison to defend Everett in combat. So different from Madalgia's fractured structure. Why not visit them and learn more?
 
[X] VIsit the Combat Triad
Relevant to our interests-why don't the mages of Madalgia work in one unified whole like these guys? Like seriously, we're the biggest city and yet we seem like we have the fewest mages. We've yet to work with the famed Glimpses and Spellthieves, even if the Shaderunners can't necessarily do much to help in a combat scenario.
 
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