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Even Further Beyond [Complete]

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Skelm said:
They can be our moral center or something. Imagine how much better Tyranshal would feel if he knew we'd pick one up!
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Not interested in giving Tyranshal fap material. Are we really marrying to make a dead old has-been feel better? Marry someone intelligent instead!

Seriously, Elves feel that it is better to sacrifice a thousand of their own to protect one baby among their enemy camp. I don't want to be obliged to that moral calculus.
 
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So I'd budget BP at:

1 Dao Cleaving B
1 Reality Forming B
1 Grand Solipsm B
9 Palimpost EFB
10 Titanic Ascension EFB
(0) Philosopher-King EFB
(3.5) Truth EFB

In the order:
Truth, Dao, Reality, Grant, Palimpost

With 4 EFBs in total, we should have an effective combat strength of ~17.
Rihaku said:
If you actually remove them from power, slaughter their children and hear the lamentations of their women you can get up to 2 BP! Hard to justify doing that, of course, and the effect on Imperial stability would hardly be salutary...
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Yo, does Baenlixnaier have any other vengeance we could fulfill?
 
RedV said:
Therefore, taking what is a limited opportunity to hugely advance power level and remove Kong's mindreading at the same time is better
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Don't forget, it is also extreamly flexible, one rout of the EFB is anti Kong to the max, Divine Justice! The other Masterminds all actions, triples cultivation speeds, raises us a full stage for all the things, and negates all esoteric effects around us, including the Fates! That's huge if we latter decide to go with Kong.

It's a huge personal power boost whichever way we go, one that we can only get here.

Our access to the Flesh sign is limited by our Lichdom, it only shows real huge gains as a EFB, which we can only get though this step.

Don't pass on this incredible opportunity.

Always be the Dragon.
 
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I really ask that people vote for Palimpost. We now know that if we don't select it, it's EFB is Gone Forever, and well, it's bonuses are superbly critical if we want to fight Zang Kong.

Does ANYONE voting for Vault have any strategy for fighting Zang Kong when he has literally perfect information due to the Eyes of Kong? And a backdoor, to boot?
 
If I understand correctly, we only get EFB because of the Liminal Branch, and we can spend BP later to elevate the power of the thing? Given that, I'm going to go with

[X] Palimpsest of the Nameless One

which gives us at least a 40% increase in cultivation speed, which is highly relevant, or 3 stages of combat power, which is also highly relevant. The unique benefit of having the Vault as our Liminal Branch seems much smaller than the Palimpset of the Nameless One. This is the sort of outside context boost which is uniquely available to us due to our choices (pseudolich who cultivates and is a true alchemist) which may play an integral role in us catching and surpassing Kong. The Vault, on the other hand, is not significantly improved by being our Liminal Branch, and is not an outside context solution so far as I'm aware.

As far as where to go, I'm partial to

[X] Journey to the West

Which I think provides some of the best methods of additional outside context multipliers, especially now that Fate is actively working harder for us. I think we will eventually want to go to the Tomb of the Netherine, but suspect we may want to wait until after we've gotten a Dao to do so.
 
Shard said:
I really ask that people vote for Palimpost. We now know that if we don't select it, it's EFB is Gone Forever, and well, it's bonuses are superbly critical if we want to fight Zang Kong.

Does ANYONE voting for Vault have any strategy for fighting Zang Kong when he has literally perfect information due to the Eyes of Kong? And a backdoor, to boot?
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Honestly, I do think people are overestimating Zang Kong's mind reading. It sounds like something that'd take some of his attention and focus away from the fight itself. Which would put him on a disadvantage even if he does know what we are going to do.
 
RedV said:
Not interested in giving Tyranshal fap material. Are we really marrying to make a dead old has-been feel better? Marry someone intelligent instead!
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There's no shortage of smarts, in the West or elsewhere. Moral fiber is a far rarer commodity. Marry someone who will stop us from becoming the worst kind of tyrant.
Rihaku said:
"Unlikely," Tyranshal said, "But I would welcome it nonetheless. However, you would not be the first to aspire to nobility in your hour of weakness, only to find it all too inconvenient after you have grown strong. Such is the nature of men. The moral stance that most benefits us is the one we find most assiduously compelling. When powerless, we praise equality, liberty, the fraternity of all sapient beings. When mighty, we earnestly believe that the powerful have earned their dominion over the weak. We are not the elves, for better or worse."
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So, game plan.

Take Palimpsest, and rush the Tomb, gain Loot/Knowledge/Multipliers, plus Mastermind points! Buy Truth, choose a Truth boosted Dao, possibly a FB one if appropriate, then head for the Elves and forge a vault to keep them in.

Profit!
 
DarkKing98 said:
Honestly, I do think people are overestimating Zang Kong's mind reading. It sounds like something that'd take some of his attention and focus away from the fight itself. Which would put him on a disadvantage even if he does know what we are going to do.
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He'll have our character sheet and know everything we can do. Information dispartity is very bad.

If we do outlcass him by like 0.5 stages it won't matter, but, well. Odds of that happening aren't the best. If the fight is close by any means, then such factors (like Quickening) matter a lot.
 
Don't underestimate the power of Elvegekere's Protector! If you take the build I posted earlier, your Golem wouldn't just be a typical Stand but something on the level of a Requiem Stand!

Deathbybunnies said:
Oh, I meant to ask:

@Rihaku, I thought the Priceless Treasures scaled with the monsters? So Titan-grade monsters would be dropping Titan-grade PLs, which are presumably not near the bottom of the PL hierarchy?
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They'll be relevant to you, but the low end is not necessarily to the level where they'd be worth BPs.

Unelemental said:
I'm not sure what to say. On the one hand, this is horrible and I feel like a terrible person for even considering this briefly. On the other hand... BPs don't grow on trees?..
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...Don't they?

Shard said:
Yo, does Baenlixnaier have any other vengeance we could fulfill?
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Well, he really hates these guys called the Divinities...

Radvic said:
which gives us at least a 40% increase in cultivation speed, which is highly relevant, or 3 stages of combat power, which is also highly relevant. The unique benefit of having the Vault as our Liminal Branch seems much smaller than the Palimpset of the Nameless One. This is the sort of outside context boost which is uniquely available to us due to our choices (pseudolich who cultivates and is a true alchemist) which may play an integral role in us catching and surpassing Kong. The Vault, on the other hand, is not significantly improved by being our Liminal Branch, and is not an outside context solution so far as I'm aware.
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Taking Liminal Branch for the Vault allows it to go FB / EFB.
 
Shard said:
He'll have our character sheet and know everything we can do. Information dispartity is very bad.

If we do outlcass him by like 0.5 stages it won't matter, but, well. Odds of that happening aren't the best.
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One possibility would be increasing our Cultivation until we can make something that can affect the Eyes. We have that bonus from the Forge to make it easier, after all. An alternative would be making an external storage device for our memories and keeping them there, I suppose.
 
And if we don't select Vault here, we get neither its FB nor its EFB. Having a counter to his Eyes is nice, but we can find other ways to mitigate that disadvantage. The Palimpsest EFB, meanwhile, splits its focus between enhancing our Potential and Combat Power. Compared to a Vault EFB that we could specialize for purely enhancing our Potential, this just isn't something we want right now. What we need now is ways to strap rockets to our development speed, not just give it a few enhancements.

Nameless himself thought of the Vault when considering OOC ways to catch up with Kong.
 
Hmm, no FB Vault if we take the Palimpsest.

The Beyond for the Palimpsest remains available even if it isn't Liminal, and that's its main draw for me. Changing vote.


[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh
[X] Journey to the West
 
Ok now I'm tempted. I get the suspicion Philosopher's Stone Protector may be able to do something like timehax or attacking the cultivation base. Plus it's an independent actor. Kong can't read its mind.

[x] Tomb of the Netherine
[x] Elvegekere's Protector(Mythril)
 
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Rihaku said:
Taking Liminal Branch for the Vault allows it to go FB / EFB.
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Right, but Vault FB / EFB seems less valuable to me than Palimpset of the Nameless One. The difference between Beyond Vault and Even Further Beyond Vault seems relatively minimal -- it's a way to make the general vault viable, but it doesn't actually add too much in terms of utility to a specialized vault in my opinion. Basically, past a certain point, I'm unsure what additional gains we're getting from a fancier Vault.

On the other hand, with Palimpset of the Nameless One, EFB removes the weakness we gained from having the Eyes, and the difference between a combat build at Beyond and a combat build at Even Further Beyond is ~1.5-2 combat stages (depending on cultivation stage), Sign of the Sword, dectupled blood value, and two step increase in blood benefits. This is a significant improvement. Or, if we go for balance vs virtuosity, then the 9 BP adds 1 full stage, an additional 260% cultivation speed boost, and the possibility of free Mastermind Points.

To me, the additional value of being able to go even further beyond with Palimpset of the Nameless One is significantly higher than that of being able to go Even Further Beyond with the Fault.
 
I am going to support The form of balance if Flesh diagram wins. The Form of beast really does not fit Nameless.

He is going to be the Philosopher-King, I would prefer if he remains a human. The Elder beast also sounds too Zang Kong-ish.
 
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