- Location
- Europe
I was joking.
I wouldn't call a pyrrhic victory a crushing one.
Things for later.
Also, boo on saving the republic. The only thing that deserves is Pax Atella.
Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
Also, boo on saving the republic. The only thing that deserves is Pax Atella.
- Location
- Texas
First off, 400 XP for reaction posts, bringing you all up to 2,050 stored XP.
Secondly, I'll be pushing the moratorium up to twenty-four hours beginning with the next update. To those wondering why I posted at 2:00 AM, all I can say is that it was 2:00 AM for me as well.
Lastly, to answer a question raised several times, the Third cohort, as your automatic cohort, is following you to war no matter what. Should you pick [] None, Bovianum and it's outlying villages will be utterly unprotected.
Secondly, I'll be pushing the moratorium up to twenty-four hours beginning with the next update. To those wondering why I posted at 2:00 AM, all I can say is that it was 2:00 AM for me as well.
Lastly, to answer a question raised several times, the Third cohort, as your automatic cohort, is following you to war no matter what. Should you pick [] None, Bovianum and it's outlying villages will be utterly unprotected.
Honestly, I mentioned that only because I want to see if Visellia would die from the sheer effrontery.
- Location
- Central Europe
Thanks for the clarification. Would a Write-in like this be acceptable?
[] Write-In: The Might of Rome
The main force lead by ourselves, consisting of the 3rd, 6th and 9th Cohorts plus the Gallic auxiliaries and the Noble levy sets of as soon as possible to cut off Gemino from the Valley of the Vulturnus. The Gaul are used to scout and if possible hinder Gemino's movements. Meanwhile a smaller force consisting of Pompolussa's 2nd and the Samnite Auxillaries will remain behind at Bovanium. Pompolussa should move out to attack Geminos powerbase in the western towns, once the forces send by Sertorius arrive. How many cohorts he takes with him on this task should depend on his assessment of the direct threat to the region around Bovanium. Regarding the case that no assistance from Sertorius arrives, we advise him to risk it and leave only the Auxilaries behind. Once the main force has positioned itself between Gemino and the entrance to the Valley, their next goal is to force the Rebels into battle. During this second phase the main force should be on guard for the two most likely eventualities: Gemino trying to go around them and him going after Pompolussa's force.
@everyone_else: With this information I have added the 9th to those that remain behind.
[] Plan The Hunt is on
-[] The Enemy in the West
-[] The Auxiliaries
-[] The Ninth
-[] Write to Sertorius
-[] Noble Levy
--[] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
-[] The Enemy in the West
-[] The Auxiliaries
-[] The Ninth
-[] Write to Sertorius
-[] Noble Levy
--[] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
Since, I'm not the biggest fan of using write-ins to be 'smarter' than the standard options I'm inclined to go with The Hunt is on.
That said, if anyone is interested I'm open to feedback and changes concerning the Write-In plan:
[] Plan Powerbases can be attacked
-[] Write-In: The Might of Rome
--[] 3rd, 6th & 9th + Gauls & Noble Levy lead by Us; move out as fast as possible to head off Gemino
--[] 2nd & Sertorius's Reinforcements lead by Pompolussa; move out later to attack the western towns and force Gemino to fight
-[] The Auxiliaries
-[] Write to Sertorius
-[] Noble Levy
--[] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
-[] Write-In: The Might of Rome
--[] 3rd, 6th & 9th + Gauls & Noble Levy lead by Us; move out as fast as possible to head off Gemino
--[] 2nd & Sertorius's Reinforcements lead by Pompolussa; move out later to attack the western towns and force Gemino to fight
-[] The Auxiliaries
-[] Write to Sertorius
-[] Noble Levy
--[] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
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Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
We should not necessarily try to stop the fall of the Republic, the Republic is broken. It is going to fail one way or another. Its institutions are simply unequipped to deal with the problems it is now facing. What we should do is prepare the Empire for what comes next. Writing laws that will allow the Empire to consolidate power, and survive for a thousand more years, and a thousand years again.
- Location
- France
I absolutely agree and support you with this. Hopefully we wil leave a good enough legacy to change the fate of Rome.
xa na xa
A.E.I.O.U. - Antarticae est imperare orbi universo
- Location
- σ Octantis
I changed my opinion on being absolutely opposed to asking Sertorius, in particular I've been swayed by the remark by @Japanime that one cohort is only about 1/10th of his force.
An extra cohort would be a much more significant increase of our capabilities, relatively.
Still the same considerations about reputation, but maybe our pride is less important than having to ask for all the tools we need (but only maybe, we're an 18-year Roman nobility youngling old in charge of a half-legion)
An extra cohort would be a much more significant increase of our capabilities, relatively.
Still the same considerations about reputation, but maybe our pride is less important than having to ask for all the tools we need (but only maybe, we're an 18-year Roman nobility youngling old in charge of a half-legion)
- Location
- Europe
We should postpone the discussion on the future of the state to another time when we aren't a rather unimportant, if pretty awesome, tribune. We'll cross that river at some point.
However, while I want to become emperor my biggest goal is shaping a state whose culture saturates the people of Europe so thoroughly that even should the state break apart, the different parts find their way back together at some point. Like China.
However, while I want to become emperor my biggest goal is shaping a state whose culture saturates the people of Europe so thoroughly that even should the state break apart, the different parts find their way back together at some point. Like China.
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Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Wait, which speech are you two talking about?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Uh, Sertorius already gave us four cohorts and the Gauls. An extra cohort isn't one tenth of his force, it's one sixth of his force, possibly one fifth depending on how the legion's cohorts are being counted.
I'm not saying we shouldn't ask him for reinforcements, but the size of the reinforcement we're asking him for is very much NOT a trifling matter for him to give us.
I didn't say we'd experienced a Pyrrhic victory. I said we experienced a victory in which the ghost of Pyrrhus of Epirus was engaged in a massive "FUCK YOU" campaign against us.
Heck, maybe that's why Gemino's military scores are so good. He's getting advice.
I'm imagining her standing there, absolutely furious, and this little Milquetoast of a workman leans up and hangs a similar placard around her neck: "ALSO saved from fire and pillage by the grace of Quintus Cingulatus Atellus."
And then she has an aneurysm from sheer angry.
- Location
- Europe
The one in the description of our feat in the character sheet.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
Oh.
I thought there was something in the update's summary of the speech that referenced one of Aurelius' speeches.
EDIT:
OK, that is going in the Fate omakes.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Some sort of elective or adoptive system? The Five Good Emperors came to an end because Marcus Aurelius had a shitty biological son (Commodus) rather than adopting an heir like the rest (in fact that was IIRC the first time you had direct, biological father to son succession- before that it was various adoptive heirs- Augustus, Hadrian, etc.- and/or a kinsman). Of course that depends on Emperors not wanting to marry and have a son.... I guess they could also go the Ottoman route, have a harem, and let the strongest out of half a hundred or so rise to the top via Sith-y selection? (Then again the Chinese were not immune to the problem of incompetent heirs either and they also had a concubine system)
The key problem, for both Late Republic and Empire, was that all power rested in the army, which ultimately answered to their generals and themselves. How do we fix that? I'm not sure that we can, not efficiently; some sort of devolution of power to the provinces, or the old dictatorial standby of redundant departments, may be necessary.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Okay, I am technically running out of time in which to propose plans AAAAAAGH
So in short, fuuuu-.
I think our best bet is to just hit Gemino with everything we've got. He's the real problem here. As for reinforcements...
We really shouldn't leave the Second, because we're going to need our strongest infantry when we fight Gemino/whoever. Also, if we try the 'wall' plan we need Pompolussa as an engineer.
Especially since he's the one with all the badass cohorts. Mercator would probably go through most of the stuff the Samnites around here have like a nuclear weed-whacker.
The key problem, for both Late Republic and Empire, was that all power rested in the army, which ultimately answered to their generals and themselves. How do we fix that? I'm not sure that we can, not efficiently; some sort of devolution of power to the provinces, or the old dictatorial standby of redundant departments, may be necessary.[/QUOTE]
If we hit him hard enough, with enough men, I think we can do this. We have more force, our troops are comparable at the point of contact, and we have a very solid reserve force in the form of the Gallic cavalry. The hazardous X-factor is Gemino setting some kind of ambush that offsets our numerical advantages.
Yeah. Even if this plan works and we 'beat' Tercerian, his forces will just fragment and scatter. What's left of our forces may well be weak enough for Gemino to break, or at least beat down hard enough that we're forced to retreat and let him rally Tercerian's forces to his own banner, at which point we're screwed.
I like this idea taken in isolation. More generally, it has problems. One, we suck at engineering. Two, Pompolussa thinks it can be done but he'd say that even if he was incompetent and optimistic. Three, even if it goes according to plan it's also slow, which is going to irritate Sertorius because he wants us to come back and join him in time to take Nola before the campaign season is over.
Assuming the rebels get trapped within Aesernia this works great. If they settle accounts in the open field, or if they form some kind of alliance via negotiation, we're fucked.
This involves forgiving Tercerian, who's a mass murderer of Roman citizens. Not on.
So in short, fuuuu-.
I think our best bet is to just hit Gemino with everything we've got. He's the real problem here. As for reinforcements...
We leave the auxiliaries behind rather than taking them with us. We may have to leave the Sixth, or a few centuries of the Sixth. Maybe half the Sixth?
We really shouldn't leave the Second, because we're going to need our strongest infantry when we fight Gemino/whoever. Also, if we try the 'wall' plan we need Pompolussa as an engineer.
Like many others, I favor "Write to Sertorius" and "Noble Levy." We have a plan that enables us to finish this campaign VERY QUICKLY, but it doesn't work if we don't drop an anvil on Gemino. We think we can do this, but loaning us one more cohort for a few more weeks would really help.
Especially since he's the one with all the badass cohorts. Mercator would probably go through most of the stuff the Samnites around here have like a nuclear weed-whacker.
The Ottoman system was TERRIBLE. The biggest problem with it was that it raised all these princes who were constantly watching their half-brothers like hawks and plotting against each other, all knowing that when their father died, then they would either murder most of their male relatives, or be murdered by their male relatives. At best, this created suspicious, autocratic, very clever bastards on the throne. At worst, they outright went crazy.
The key problem, for both Late Republic and Empire, was that all power rested in the army, which ultimately answered to their generals and themselves. How do we fix that? I'm not sure that we can, not efficiently; some sort of devolution of power to the provinces, or the old dictatorial standby of redundant departments, may be necessary.[/QUOTE]
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Okay, it is... kind of borderline how to count this in light of the twelve hour issue, but this is the best I can come up with.
This may duplicate someone else's plan. I don't know.
[X] Plan Direct Approach
-[X] The Enemy in the West
-[X] Leave the Auxiliaries
-[X] Write-In: Leave three centuries of the Sixth Cohort, to hold the camp. Bring the other three centuries with Atellus.
-[X] Write to Sertorius for Reinforcements
This may duplicate someone else's plan. I don't know.
[X] Plan Direct Approach
-[X] The Enemy in the West
-[X] Leave the Auxiliaries
-[X] Write-In: Leave three centuries of the Sixth Cohort, to hold the camp. Bring the other three centuries with Atellus.
-[X] Write to Sertorius for Reinforcements
-[X] Noble Levy for Reinforcements
--[x] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
EDIT:
The idea here is that we bring with us as much strength as we can without being completely defenseless in our rear. We promised the Pentri not to draft their people so taking the auxiliaries with us seems inadvisable. At the same time, we should leave at least SOME Romans behind us... but leaving a full cohort, a quarter of our infantry, seems risky when we're up against Gemino who commands the equivalent of about two cohorts of his own.
The three centuries of the Sixth we bring with us may not be able to do much more than, say, pad out the battleline of the Second or the Ninth or the Third, or could serve as our reserve force- hard to say. But it gives us about 240 more men than we'd otherwise have, which is a significant fraction of our margin of superiority over Gemino.
--[x] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
EDIT:
The idea here is that we bring with us as much strength as we can without being completely defenseless in our rear. We promised the Pentri not to draft their people so taking the auxiliaries with us seems inadvisable. At the same time, we should leave at least SOME Romans behind us... but leaving a full cohort, a quarter of our infantry, seems risky when we're up against Gemino who commands the equivalent of about two cohorts of his own.
The three centuries of the Sixth we bring with us may not be able to do much more than, say, pad out the battleline of the Second or the Ninth or the Third, or could serve as our reserve force- hard to say. But it gives us about 240 more men than we'd otherwise have, which is a significant fraction of our margin of superiority over Gemino.
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- Location
- Central Europe
[x] Plan The Hunt is on
-[x] The Enemy in the West
-[x] The Auxiliaries
-[x] The Ninth
-[x] Write to Sertorius
-[x] Noble Levy
--[x] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
I would rather leave a whole cohort with the Samnites and the 9th is described as our weakest one.
-[x] The Enemy in the West
-[x] The Auxiliaries
-[x] The Ninth
-[x] Write to Sertorius
-[x] Noble Levy
--[x] Write-In: Ask Himatus find us a number of loyal volunteers to serve as scouts.
I would rather leave a whole cohort with the Samnites and the 9th is described as our weakest one.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I picked on the Sixth because they're the guys who trained the auxiliaries; they're the ones most likely to be able to predict what the auxiliaries will do, and probably the Romans the auxiliaries are least inclined to betray. That said, you may be right and I may be wrong about the correct course of action.
Thanks for reminding me of the write-in idea; I'm going to steal it.
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Ok the roman republic is on its way to be a failed state. The rich control so much land that they cannot properly administer it or farm it. So there is more land being left fallow than farmed by the Time Marius and Sulla come around. for the last 40 years more and more romans are coming to Rome becasue they cannot compete with the big farms that the rich land owners have. So they sell there land (usually to a rich land owner), than move to Rome. Where the grain doll comes to be very important to any roman citizen. One of the most popular legislative will be the grain doll expansion putting the republic into debt for the next few decades. Every time in the OTL that land reform was brought up it was severally challenged in the senate. It got to the point that faction leaders had to form secret deals with each other to get anything major passed. Like when Pompey, Caeser, and Crassus form a secret Cabal to Pass Laws and reforms that they wanted. Caeser getting land reform, Pompey getting his conquests aknowldeged by the senate, and Crassus bailing out the tax collectors.
Than we get into Political situation that was mention above. You have factions that hate each other and try to keep power for themselves and weaken or outright destroy there enemies. It is not uncommon for Senators to higher bodyguards. right now somehow Marius is still alive and leading his faction of the common roman man, while Sulla is the more traditionalist senator. Depending on who wins in the east a lot of people are still going to die in Rome. Which means we should save money since a lot of land will be sieved from political enemies and sold than. The republic is in serious debt.
Than we get into Political situation that was mention above. You have factions that hate each other and try to keep power for themselves and weaken or outright destroy there enemies. It is not uncommon for Senators to higher bodyguards. right now somehow Marius is still alive and leading his faction of the common roman man, while Sulla is the more traditionalist senator. Depending on who wins in the east a lot of people are still going to die in Rome. Which means we should save money since a lot of land will be sieved from political enemies and sold than. The republic is in serious debt.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I guess what it comes down to is that if our letter to Sertorius doesn't convince him, and the nobles don't come through for us despite our marvelous showing in the tribal assembly... Well, under @Spacegnom 's plan, we're facing Gemino with three cohorts and the Gauls.
Given that Gemino's infantry is roughly the equal of two cohorts and that he has at least one lieutenant skilled enough to be a match for us or our best centurions on the battlefield... that gives us a considerable margin of numerical advantage, but not as big as I'd like.
Three and a half cohorts puts our thumb on the scales a little more effectively.
Given that Gemino's infantry is roughly the equal of two cohorts and that he has at least one lieutenant skilled enough to be a match for us or our best centurions on the battlefield... that gives us a considerable margin of numerical advantage, but not as big as I'd like.
Three and a half cohorts puts our thumb on the scales a little more effectively.
- Location
- Central Europe
I can see the reasoning behind going with the 6th, but splitting the cohort just seems ineffective to me. I doubt half a cohort will make the difference vs. Gemino, but I can definitely see half a cohort making a difference in Bovianum.I picked on the Sixth because they're the guys who trained the auxiliaries; they're the ones most likely to be able to predict what the auxiliaries will do, and probably the Romans the auxiliaries are least inclined to betray. That said, you may be right and I may be wrong about the correct course of action.
Thanks for reminding me of the write-in idea; I'm going to steal it.
Also the Sixth and the Auxilliaries would, according to the flavor text, both be stationed in Aquilonia. Something you might want to change with a write-In if you are commited to the Sixth.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
In the worst case scenario, half a cohort is a seventh of our infantry force. It MIGHT not make a difference, but then again... it really, really might. Battles are usually won by the last commander to commit all their reserves, so having an extra 250 guys or so in reserve when our men crash into Gemino's could prove very helpful.
...
Meanwhile, leaving a full cohort in our rear would certainly overawe any ambitious forces of a few hundred Samnites, but I'm not worried about that.
The way I figure it in my plan, Bovianum is unlikely to be attacked by large forces, because the only large force in the area is Gemino, and we're headed straight for him with roughly two thousand men. Furthermore, Gemino is leading his men to fight a battle for control of Tercerian's rebels in the valley, and he has to know a battle with the legion is likely as well. He's not going to have left behind hundreds of his own troops, because if he did, he'd be likely to get torn apart either by us or by Tercerian.
The danger isn't a dedicated rebel army taking Bovianum by force at Gemino's behest. The danger is small forces (like, a platoon), or very shaky 'fairweather rebels.'
Fairweather rebels might try something in our rear if we left NO Romans behind, but even half a cohort is big enough to make them say "whoa, that's too big for us to squash, wait for Gemino to get back." Beating a half-cohort would take at least a few hundred more Samnites, and as noted, if Gemino had a few hundred more men he'd be taking them with him. Meanwhile, smaller forces will have the auxiliaries to contend with and can't really do that much damage in the limited time we're away, as long as they don't get a chance to just swoop in and grab our camp and main supply dump entirely unprotected.
I already did:
"Write-In: Leave three centuries of the Sixth Cohort, to hold the camp. Bring the other three centuries with Atellus."
I'm specifying that they go to the camp, that is, the one outside Bovianum. If this is in your opinion unclear I could rephrase, but I'm pretty sure @Telamon will understand me.
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Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
The nobility is using more of the farmlands they're buying up en-mass from the commoners then the land they're sitting on, and making money hand over fist by using slave labor over tenant farmers.
Land is only part of the equation. It's employment that's going to be the key to getting the population back in track. But due to the cheap labor of slavery, getting money back in the hands of Roman citizens by either freeing the slaves or breaking up the estates for common Roman citizens is directly hurting the personal finances of the wealthy elite who control the state. In other words...
It's a situation somewhat akin to the American Civil War. The economics and developing morals are clashing with the culture of a small wealthy elite. An elite that must be broken of their power.