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Being the Holy Grail is Suffering... [Worm/FSN Quest]

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There is no such rule saying you can't kill a Servant beforehand. Killing a Master usually isn't done since at that point the Grail has a bunch of potential Masters, and it will give one of them command seals to allow the Servant to continue existing. Typically the preferred strategy would be to kill the Master, and thus most would rather wait until all the Servants are summoned anyways to lessen the chances of the Grail just making a new Master. Besides that, The people who get Servants significantly early enough for that to be a real possibility, typically a couple months in advance, are the founding families who are in very fortified positions and, in the case of the Einzberns, not in the country. It isn't against the rules, it is just extremely unusual.
 
FacelessDoll said:
There is no such rule saying you can't kill a Servant beforehand. Killing a Master usually isn't done since at that point the Grail has a bunch of potential Masters, and it will give one of them command seals to allow the Servant to continue existing. Typically the preferred strategy would be to kill the Master, and thus most would rather wait until all the Servants are summoned anyways to lessen the chances of the Grail just making a new Master. Besides that, The people who get Servants significantly early enough for that to be a real possibility, typically a couple months in advance, are the founding families who are in very fortified positions and, in the case of the Einzberns, not in the country. It isn't against the rules, it is just extremely unusual.
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Are there any actual rules? I tried looking them up and couldn't find any. It looks like it's mostly the church just deciding to do whatever.
 
Okay, I'll present what info I know.

The Holy Grail starts by finding potential Masters. It chooses much more than it actually needs to give itself plenty of leeway. It gives priority to the three founding families, then to mages with wishes in the area, then it throws in whatever random schmucks it needs to to fill out the roster. Servants can potentially be summoned a couple months out, but this is unusual. The exception are the Einzberns who really like to cheat, and tend to summon their Servants really gods damned early.

When a Servant dies, it would normally return to the Throne of Heroes, but the Grail hijacks them temporarily to gain access to their prana, allowing it to brute force miracles. With six defeated Servants it is able to manifest and function, but it needs all seven heroes dead in order to accomplish its greatest feats.

EDIT: The only real rules are "please don't break me", "fight each other", "only seven of you", "if you don't fight each other I will summon more Servants that will", "also a Ruler because 14 seems kinda crazy"

After the first two Wars turned out to be utter disasters, the Church began sending representatives to act as overseers to bring some order to the Wars. They enforce order by a carrot and stick approach. They can reward and encourage behavior by offering to grant Masters new command seals to replace those that have already been used (harvested by previous Masters), and can in turn turn other Masters against those that would break the rules. The main rule is to keep the War a secret.

Besides that, the Church is meant to be neutral ground. Fighting in the Church is prohibited, as is spying on the Church (this is largely ignored). Battles are not meant to take place during the day, though this is often ignored especially by Assassins that want to catch a Master off guard. When a Master loses their Servant they take sanctuary at the Church and are thus under their protection. This is because they are still targets, as they can enter a pact with a Servant who has lost their Master and thus can reenter the War.

That is about it, really.
 
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I wonder what was done with the grail before these wars or did appear and these wars started?
 
kel said:
I wonder what was done with the grail before these wars or did appear and these wars started?
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It was made specifically to facilitate the granting of wishes by this method. Originally the Servants would be summoned, the Command Seals used to make them kill themselves, then a wish would be made. However, then people realized "oh, only one of us will have our wish granted" and they all started fighting. And that is how the Holy Grail Wars started.

EDIT: This is not the original Holy Grail from biblical stories or Arthurian legend. It is a wish granting device made by mages that was called the Holy Grail.
 
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Now I have to wonder why The Cup doesn't just Summon a Ruler in the first place to prevent The War from going in the wrong direction, has any of The Wars ever even came to a proper conclusion or have they all gone FUBAR?
kel said:
I wonder what was done with the grail before these wars or did appear and these wars started?
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If I understand it correctly The Grail was created specifically for these Wars to happen in the first place. Not sure why though, Wishes? I do know it was made by 3 families originally and got screwed up by them betraying each other. I have no clue if the Throne of Heroes always for some reason existed but I do know Alaya (the Genus Loci of Humanity) is in charge of it.

It's just named after The Jesus Drinking Cup, it's not actually the Holy Holy Grail. It's more appropriate to call this Murder-Death-Kill if anything. It's made of magic which means it's not actually holy, it's not a cup but a meta-physical object so it's not a Grail, and It's not really a war but a several months long conflict (if done right) between individuals.
 
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MetaChthonia said:
Now I have to wonder why The Cup doesn't just Summon a Ruler in the first place to prevent The War from going in the wrong direction, has any of The Wars ever even came to a proper conclusion or have they all gone FUBAR?

If I understand it correctly The Grail was created specifically for these Wars to happen in the first place. Not sure why though, Wishes? I do know it was made by 3 families originally and got screwed up by them betraying each other. I have no clue if the Throne of Heroes always for some reason existed but I do know Alaya (the Genus Loci of Humanity) is in charge of it.

It's just named after The Jesus Drinking Cup, it's not actually the Holy Holy Grail. It's more appropriate to call this Murder-Death-Kill if anything.
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Statement: "Given that it holds an actual fucking god t could be considered holy for a dear gain value of holy. Technically."
 
The Grail was made originally to grant the three founding families, the three mage families that worked together to make it, a path to the Root, which is essentially the center of the universe, which would allow those mages to gain all the knowledge in the world. Reaching the Root is the ultimate goal of most proper mages.

EDIT: or at least it is supposed to be. Only one of the founding families still wants that wish granted
 
Ksense said:
Statement: "Those pecs are good. However, that bulge though. That is an A++ Rank Noble Phantasm.

Nero for emperor is best because Romulus is better as a general. Romulus should be gathering more territory in Brockton and the surrounding area that Nero can then administrate and work outside relations for. As an emperor Iskandar works because people who hate iskander still love iskandar where people who hate Romulus hate Romulus. Everybody loves Nero because she is the best in every possible way and all know this as fact.

Basically, Romulus has maxed our military skill and ROMA but Nero has maxed out or almost maxed out basically everything else with a still decent ROMA score.

Imagine tattletale with Nero working alongside Theo with Romulus. There things happening to my body involving fluids as reaction to this thought. My glands are running on MAXIMUM."
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Said bulge makes Gilgamesh cry in shame.
 
FacelessDoll said:
The Grail was made originally to grant the three founding families, the three mage families that worked together to make it, a path to the Root, which is essentially the center of the universe, which would allow those mages to gain all the knowledge in the world. Reaching the Root is the ultimate goal of most proper mages.
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That's as far as I know also the reason why the servants are summoned in the first place, because the souls returning to the throne of heroes at the same time can be used to rip open a way to the root.
Though I'm unsure if that is necessary if you want some wish that doesn't need the grail to reach the root.
 
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FacelessDoll said:
-snip-
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Just a bit of an idea here.

While there are some basic rules in the HGW, the fact that there isn't a mediator or overseer to ensure the rules are enforced could be a problem. The Grail could probably do it, but that has a chance to backfire and/or reveal its true nature. Also to make the situation harder, this is Earth Bet. A place where people flinging powers around is almost a common sight. If secrecy still wanted to be upheld, that's gonna be a steep climb to achieve it. If not, then the chaos would be much bigger than anticipated and outside forces will start intervening. The worst part is, besides our presence, there is no other way to properly enforce the rule. We could try giving the role of overseer to someone, but everyone is biased as hell and the chances of a fair and influential overseer from Bet is low.

Hence, I suggest that when all seven master have been chosen, we should summon a Ruler servant to properly be the overseer and mediator. While the best known case for a Ruler to be summoned is during Apocrypha, F/GO France singularity also had a Ruler summoned, due to the irregularities of said Grail War. The Grail War we are in right now is also incredibly irregular, so it won't be a far fetched idea for a Ruler to be summoned. With the presence of a Ruler, the Grail War would hopefully be contained and outside forces won't notice anything till' the endgame. Also, it would be interesting to see the Rulers (whom almost all are actually saints) react to the festering pit hole that is BB.
 
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I'm not actually aware of Saber Lion having any class, just that she is an enemy in one of the arcade spin offs. I also know her weapon is Meatcalibur, and I'll say that is enough to qualify for Saber, probably. (She also uses Excalibur, but that seems lame.)
 
FacelessDoll said:
I'm not actually aware of Saber Lion having any class, just that she is an enemy in one of the arcade spin offs. I also know her weapon is Meatcalibur, and I'll say that is enough to qualify for Saber, probably. (She also uses Excalibur, but that seems lame.)
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Taiga from that fighting game said that she created another Saber to stop Saber from destroying the grail so I'm going to assume she's Saber, apparently.
 
So once Romulus gets Summoned how dead will Kaisar be (46-32 it's guaranteed to happen but it will have to change quickly for it to not happen)? He's a dirty Gaul, proclaiming superiority while killing Roman Citizens, and is calling his barely controlled warzone a empire and himself Caesar*! He is no Caesar and he is no Emperor! HE IS AN INSULT TO ROMA! ROMA VULT, MORTII ES INFIDELA!

Also another question: if The Cup is supposed to only be used for that one action then why the classes, the existence of a Ruler, there being any autonomy at all, or even the need to Wish for it if the thing is basically doing this automatically? Wouldn't it be easier to just construct something that can open the path or is this an Alaya thing with needing to basically play games in order to get a Wish? Seems kind of tedious otherwise to make something to do one action while going out of your way to make it so you fail to make it accomplish that action.

Also I just thought of something a bit Hilarious:
This is the perfect War to bring in a Foreigner Class Servant, there's two Spacewhale!Cthulhus and superpowers using Lovecraftian creatures as batteries also Little Miss Noneuclidean and The Multiverse Thief live in Brockton as well as Case 53s, Crawler, and the Endbringers exist. It also helps that Brockton is supposed to be somewhere in New England near Boston.



Footnotes
*it's pronounced K-ī-z-ar in Latin. Kaisar, Tzar, and several others originally meant "emperor" but originated in Rome where the actual Emperor would call themselves Caesar after the original two Caesars.
 
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MetaChthonia said:
Also I just thought of something a bit Hilarious:
This is the perfect War to bring in a Foreigner Class Servant, there's two Spacewhale!Cthulhus and superpowers using Lovecraftian creatures as batteries also Little Miss Noneuclidean and The Multiverse Thief live in Brockton as well as Case 53s, Crawler, and the Endbringers exist. It also helps that Brockton is supposed to be somewhere in New England near Boston.
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It probably won't happen but it's pretty hilarious to imagine summoning one of them instead of a ruler. Too bad they eould wreck our shit if we made them mad.
 
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