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Puella Magi Imperatrix Mundi, or: Wherein Half Of Japan Tries To Kill You

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@redzonejoe: I like your vote's actions, but have issues with the tone.

For instance, the first part about her powers is kind of pretentious. It should be phrased more like Yui is clearing the air with full disclosure about knowing her powers.

Second, the backstabbing point needs to change its emphasis, because currently it reads as contemptuous of Konno. It should be more sympathetic and point out that it wrecks groups and gets people killed.

I'm also not terribly sure that the "All will fall to Yui in time" line will come off as you intend it to. You're aiming somewhere between terrifying and idealistic that's very hard to hit. It may come off as naive.

Edit: I should point out I'm not sure my vote works on the second point either. It's a hard point to make.
 
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Nevill said:
Can you elabotate? What do you think is being proposed, and what do you think would Konno's reaction be? Because it doesn't sound like we are on the same wavelength.

I won't answer for Furuhata, because as much as redzonejoe wants to say otherwise, she isn't being asked*. I would, however, point out that Konno gets an alliance offer from a girl who is more powerful and wealthy than Konno can ever dream to become on her own - so long as he plays by our rules and if they do not preclude her goals. Any ambitious sort would perk up at that, it's a better opportunity than contesting for scraps in Nerima Ward.

As for what they want, I would assume that like most girls they want a sustainable existence without being chased away by greedy neighbours, or Grief Seed starving, or Witch-out dramas. Beyond that we know little of them and their personal goals.

*if Konno cooperates, then Furuhata is being set up to 'realize' that whatever she wants she may be able to get by joining. I suppose Konno would tell us what we can do to make it more palatable to her.
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I was asking that you consider how you would respond to the offer that is being made. Not that I much want you to tell me what Konno or Furuhata think, but what a hypothetical quest group operating those characters is likely to think of the offer.

And anyway, what Furuhata and Konno want loosely is fairly straight forward. Konno is intending to use this deal to sway the power balance in the group in her favor. Any clause to the effect of 'no doing exactly that' is pretty much a failure case. If we could enforce that clause Konno would gain nothing for her trouble. If we can not enforce that clause, and I have no reason to suspect that we can actually enforce it, then including it just makes us look the fool. It matters not one wit what clauses or such we attach, if we make a deal with Konno, when she delivers it to Furuhata the obvious message to the rest of the group is that Konno is the actual leader, and has Yui's support.

For Furuhata, her goals are to avoid meddling by foreign powers, and 'we intend to conquer everything and would like you to be our minion' is pretty antithetical to that desire.

So, in summary, what I am seeing is a plan that appears to be quite antagonistic to no meaningful end.
 
Tallamee said:
And anyway, what Furuhata and Konno want loosely is fairly straight forward. Konno is intending to use this deal to sway the power balance in the group in her favor. Any clause to the effect of 'no doing exactly that' is pretty much a failure case. If we could enforce that clause Konno would gain nothing for her trouble.
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What does she need it for?

Does she have some kind of special circumstances that make her want to be in charge of this particular group and this particular plot of land? Or does she simply want to be as much in charge of her life as possible?

An alliance with us gives her a position in our 'Empire' and a future that is much better protected than whatever she can get scrounge here on her own, with the possibilities going as far as a place in the 'governing body' if she plays her cards right and puts her talent to Yui's goals. Do you think this is worth nothing? Do you think a position of a team leader beats that just because you get to be a Queen, even though your castle is built pretty much in the sand?

Even if you think that, what do you think happens if she turns down the offer? Two of their number are bordering on a Witch-out, they still don't have enough Seeds, and their morale is sinking. However self-serving you picture her, being driven out of territory after a collapse suits her even less than readjusting her appetites.

The deal has several aspects to it, and the aspect that prevents the group from disintegration is no less important than her own ambitions.
 
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Responses in spoilers for length.

SystemicHatter said:
@redzonejoe: I like your vote's actions, but have issues with the tone.

For instance, the first part about her powers is kind of pretentious. It should be phrased more like Yui is clearing the air with full disclosure about knowing her powers.

Second, the backstabbing point needs to change its emphasis, because currently it reads as contemptuous of Konno. It should be more sympathetic and point out that it wrecks groups and gets people killed.

I'm also not terribly sure that the "All will fall to Yui in time" line will come off as you intend it to. You're aiming somewhere between terrifying and idealistic that's very hard to hit. It may come off as naive.

Edit: I should point out I'm not sure my vote works on the second point either. It's a hard point to make.
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I like to play around with tone a lot in votes like these. It has a lot of subtle effects, and several very obvious ones too. Switching tone can affect the discussion more than the same words in the same tone might without the shift to juxtapose it. Going from friendly to serious can make them sit up and pay attention more than just being serious all the time, for example.

At the start, Yui is supposed to come off as mysterious, all knowing, maybe even a bit smug. And sure, pretentious. Only when you actually have the ability to back it up, can it be called pretentious?

Konno mentions Koharu's name and brushes it off as 'having sources'. Turnabout is fair play, only our sources are much better and more relevant.

Underneath the guise of simple one-upsmanship, however, we have a much more straightforward, hidden goal. Ok, not that hidden, but at least pretending to hide it is good manners. Right? :p

Our goal there is to make deceit and trickery much more risky than simple honesty. Any lie she tells is seen through, any misdirection thrown back in her face.

The tone fits the situation here. Something like this, reassuring might put her on her guard. Why mention it then, what do we really want? Friendly kind and understanding all undermine the advantage we're building up for this negotiation. Nobody hesitates to lie to a child when it's for their own good, and if we catch her in one so what? Doesn't hurt her to try right?

But as is, the 'I'm better than you' overtone with 'don't try it' undertones makes it very obvious what we're doing and we're doing it. The posturing and unspoken threats may paradoxically put her at ease. By spotting the 'hidden' motivations, she knows exactly why we're admitting to an informational advantage. We want the advantage in this conversation, that's something she can work with. We're not potentially threatening her family like she did Koharu, or risking her relationship with her team by informing them of her past betrayals. We're simply jockeying for position. Simple. Transparent. Playing at politics. She concedes the advantage, comfortable in figuring us out. We have her right where we want her.

Complicated? Nonsense! Keikaku 101 right here.

I'm just gonna summarize the rest for expediency, but we change tone to serious and unyielding to draw the lines, then we place her firmly on the safe side of the line and turn back to friendly to begin the discussion in earnest. Words and tone cooperate to set the shape of the upcoming discussion and ensure she keeps to it, and making us more likely to get what we want. Once she realizes that what we want is to give her what she wants, she'll be happy to lose the fight and win the war.

Probably. Maybe.

Tallamee said:
I was asking that you consider how you would respond to the offer that is being made. Not that I much want you to tell me what Konno or Furuhata think, but what a hypothetical quest group operating those characters is likely to think of the offer.

And anyway, what Furuhata and Konno want loosely is fairly straight forward. Konno is intending to use this deal to sway the power balance in the group in her favor. Any clause to the effect of 'no doing exactly that' is pretty much a failure case. If we could enforce that clause Konno would gain nothing for her trouble. If we can not enforce that clause, and I have no reason to suspect that we can actually enforce it, then including it just makes us look the fool. It matters not one wit what clauses or such we attach, if we make a deal with Konno, when she delivers it to Furuhata the obvious message to the rest of the group is that Konno is the actual leader, and has Yui's support.

For Furuhata, her goals are to avoid meddling by foreign powers, and 'we intend to conquer everything and would like you to be our minion' is pretty antithetical to that desire.

So, in summary, what I am seeing is a plan that appears to be quite antagonistic to no meaningful end.
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What one intends, what one wants and what one needs is often very different.

What Konna intends to do is usurp power.
What Konna wants is safety and survival
What Konna needs is Yui's help

So yes, telling her that we won't support her coup is death to her intentions. I'm willing to live with that. When we have what she wants and what she needs, she'll adapt her plans.

Similarly, what Furuhata intends, what she wants and what she needs are not all the same thing. It's harder to guess exactly what they are, but if Yui intends to deliver survival on a solid gold platter, I'm hoping she's also capable of adaptation. Otherwise she's dead regardless of any attempt we make so fuck it and fuck her.

As for what I'd do in their position? Well I'd probably accept candy from a strange man in an unmarked van, so maybe not a good question. inaccurate representation.
 
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@redzonejoe: I really don't think Yui would pull off the image you want to project with that.

I also just realised every vote written has a critical error in them in that they don't address the fact that Koharu is there at all.

Particularly given that Konno is currently focused on Koharu and probably would have a good rapport with her.
 
SystemicHatter said:
@redzonejoe: I really don't think Yui would pull off the image you want to project with that.

I also just realised every vote written has a critical error in them in that they don't address the fact that Koharu is there at all.

Particularly given that Konno is currently focused on Koharu and probably would have a good rapport with her.
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I dunno, Yui has many talents. While she's naturally disposed to cute and harmless and adorable, she's also getting used to dealing with various brands of hostiles, biting through concrete and wielding magical power over power itself.

After Yui tanked and then hijacked the other girl's metal, Konno is going to be wary. This lends itself well to intimidation. And while we're not exactly trying to scare her, we are definitely making sure she knows not to cross us.

Remember when Yui hijacked authority, stopped an active fight, sent Koharu off crying then marched up to three hostile girls, Punched one clear across the street, blew up a bridge and sent them packing despite their desperate need for the seeds Yumi stole? Yui's got depths, man.

I don't think 'tips and tricks for handling negotiations, part 4' is too far out of her depth.

Edit: unless you're suggesting the vote is the issue rather than Yui's personality, in which case what would you recommend?

As for Koharu, well... It's not like we can vote to control others, nor can we account for what she hasn't said yet. But I've clearly given Echo the green light to modify dialogue as needed to fit the scene, so... *shrug*
 
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Maximum antagonism! Full aggression! Imperial empress demands your subservience!

Seriously though, not every interaction is sunshine and smiles and hugging teh mumi. We are unhappy with the situation. We are allowed to show it.
 
redzonejoe said:
I dunno, Yui has many talents. While she's naturally disposed to cute and harmless and adorable, she's also getting used to dealing with various brands of hostiles, biting through concrete and wielding magical power over power itself.

After Yui tanked and then hijacked the other girl's metal, Konno is going to be wary. This lends itself well to intimidation. And while we're not exactly trying to scare her, we are definitely making sure she knows not to cross us.

Remember when Yui hijacked authority, stopped an active fight, sent Koharu off crying then marched up to three hostile girls, Punched one clear across the street, blew up a bridge and sent them packing despite their desperate need for the seeds Yumi stole? Yui's got depths, man.

I don't think 'tips and tricks for handling negotiations, part 4' is too far out of her depth.

Edit: unless you're suggesting the vote is the issue rather than Yui's personality, in which case what would you recommend?

As for Koharu, well... It's not like we can vote to control others, nor can we account for what she hasn't said yet. But I've clearly given Echo the green light to modify dialogue as needed to fit the scene, so... *shrug*
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The thing is, this has all played well into Yui's 'straightforward about everything, even when keeping secrets' approach. We haven't really been in a situation where Yui's had to be dishonest, except with Natsuki, and that's noticeably been causing us immense issues both in-quest and in the discussion. When Yui's been 'mysterious', as you put it, it's been fairly obvious to everyone else around her that she had a veteran backer she wasn't revealing. The issue in this context, and particularly with the idealistic pitch that Yui is making, is that it's fairly obvious that Yui's new to the magical girl business. That's not necessarily an issue, if it becomes clear that Yui is competent and is backed by veterans, but Konno doesn't currently have that impression (see Echo's comments).

The overall tone then comes across as an incredibly naive (and/or arrogant) newbie who thinks she can fix everything without much experience. Do you think Konno, who's had make several deals in order to survive, is going to respond well to that? If anything, I'd argue that being suspicious and not immediately declaring our intention to take over Furuhata's group is more likely to play well on her political sensibilities.

Re: Koharu. Echo has already established that Koharu has a degree of experience in cutthroat negotiations. Hell, Konno and her are virtually on the same page here! Moreover, just steamrolling over Koharu will utterly ruin our reason for bringing her in the first place - making her feel something other than useless. We need to use her to the best of her ability and allow her to shine! Hell, she may even have insights into what Konno will respond well to that we can use!
redzonejoe said:
Maximum antagonism! Full aggression! Imperial empress demands your subservience!

Seriously though, not every interaction is sunshine and smiles and hugging teh mumi. We are unhappy with the situation. We are allowed to show it.
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Bit of a strawman here, particularly as I've written a vote that doesn't exactly treat Konno with sunshine and smiles.

Edit: Your plan, @redzonejoe, is bold and pretty amazing in some ways, but I think it's likely to backfire spectacularly with the way you've presented it.
 
@SystemicHatter

redzonejoe said:
Becotryin
BeconeBecotryBecotry
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My phone is beong an utter asshat. Please hold for a couple hours for me to reach a computer.

In the meantime, I don't think my post was a strawman. It wasn't an argument against a position so much as a hyperbolic defense of my own position.

Opponent: Too much antagonism
Me: No, Yui is mad, some aggression is fine.

I had a rant in my head about all the shit Yui is repressing, now including the potential that a spy-themed teammate might watch her in her sleep, or other more creepy alternatives best left unmentioned. That's on top of the fact that her soul might have been removed from the cycle of life, her other teammate can read her personality and all her deepest secrets like a literal open book, and she's totally not prepared to lose her innocence to the imminent and inevitable carnage of a war she literally signed up for, so she can't even complain about it.

It was a nice rant. All you guys got was 'no hugs, yui mad'.
 
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As one of the most vocal supporters for that plan, I feel the need to mention that, yes, I think that the tone veers into antagonistic. However, redzonejoe stated it was made for the sake of its intent and open to as much rephrasing as it needs to, so I shrugged and went with it anyway.

I stopped worrying about tone and loved the bomb when Echo made this post in regards to us rehashing and polishing a vote ten times to make its phrasing as flawless and as closely following the intent as possible...
Echo said:
Okay, not actually gonna close voting quite yet since it'll be another hour or two before I can start writing, so if you guys want to all switch to yet another version of the same vote that differs by like three words you still have time! :V
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...only to then rewrite the dialogue and leave out entirely the parts that made us argue and reword the vote.

It was a pretty clear signal of 'state what you want, and I'll try to make it work', and I think it one of the better attitudes to take in regards to the quest that is already complex.
 
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Nevill said:
As one of the most vocal supporters for that plan, I feel the need to state that, yes, I think that the tone veers into antagonistic.
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I don't know how to rate this. They all apply. What is your preferred rating, sir?

That said, I don't mind adding or changing minor things to make the others happy. I guess I was being a bit antagonistic myself, no? The vote fits my mood.

I can add a line about trying to include Koharu. Maybe a bit of telepathic coordination. Good cop/bad cop? Maybe that's too much?

I can also add a line explicitly making the intent more clear. It's in the name, really. While I think all the subtleties are cool and will totally work, I'm obviously biased.
 
Well if you combine Gnarker and Hatter's votes, which you probably should? It's 7:5 in hatter's favor atm.
Adhoc vote count started by redzonejoe on Feb 17, 2018 at 9:52 AM, finished with 10212 posts and 14 votes.
  • [X] Plan Delightfully soft, and yet still firm.
    [X] You know what position her group is in perfectly, in fact. You're sympathetic - being short of Grief Seeds and stuck in the middle of an imploding group must suck.
    [X] The thing is, though, that despite the fact that you're well aware of her reasons for going behind her group leader's back this time, this isn't the first time. And this kind of behaviour tends to tear apart groups violently.
    [X] You're perfectly willing to make a similar deal to the one she suggested (though perhaps less tied to the territory itself), with her group, but not at the cost of bringing bullshit Tokyo politics into it. That's counterproductive to the stability you're trying to build, within Nagamioka and without.
    [X] Does she have any way of addressing your concerns?
    [X] You know what position her group is in perfectly, in fact. You're sympathetic - being short of Grief Seeds and stuck in the middle of an imploding group must suck.
    [X] The thing is, though, that despite the fact that you're well aware of her reasons for going behind her group leader's back this time, this isn't the first time. And this kind of behaviour tends to tear apart groups violently.
    [X] You're perfectly willing to make a similar deal to the one she suggested (though perhaps less tied to the territory itself), with her group, but not at the cost of bringing bullshit Tokyo politics into it, if at all possible. That's counterproductive to the stability you're trying to build, within Nagamioka and without.
    [X] Does she have any way of addressing your concerns?
    [X] Possible alternative proposals; What are her thoughts on them?
    -[X] Convincing Furuhata to come talk to us and listen when we tell her about her group's problems and how we would like to help. Does Konno think it's possible, and is she willing to possibly forfeit her shot at leadership and still help if the problems can be worked out that way?
    -[X] Ask Maiko if Konno could be trusted to become part of our intel group and behave herself, and if we could integrate the other personalities. If yes, also offer a full annexation of the entire group.
    [X]This arrangement seems loosely amenable so far, so lets get down to the brass tacks of the agreement.
    -[X]Konno knows we are an Aikawa, so we should demonstrate that. Tell her that we will lease the territory for some agreed upon time with a few conditions, for now with a more open ended agreement for after the first lease ends
    --[X]The duration of the initial lease should be for no more than 2 months for now, and no less than 2 weeks
    -[X]Start negotiations at 50/50 split of GS collected, but be willing to move as far as 40/60 of the GS collected, in their favor.
    --[X]if pressed argue that Witches are especially abundant presently, and that the relatively short duration of the lease will allow for renegotiation of terms as the situation changes with more simplicity
    -[X]Yui's group must be notified of all magical girls that enter or are in the lease territory, and a member of Yui's group must be present for any meetings with such magical girls. Our fluffy Mephistopheles is currently on a recruiting spree through Nagamioka, and we want to prevent any unfortunate accidents.
    [X] Plan Work-study Program
    -[X] You know what position her group is in perfectly, in fact. You're sympathetic - being short of Grief Seeds and stuck in the middle of an imploding group must suck. However, you really need to not go behind her leader's back on this. Suggest she act as a go-between and bring an offer to Furuhata. Get her leader to at least meet telepathically - or preferably in person with whoever she wants to bring - to hammer out details. She can claim we contacted her or whatever if she wants, as long as she gets that meeting for us.
    -[X] Suggest that you could take on problem children from her group as a sort of trial period. Attach them to existing groups in your territory. They can hunt well, as long as they are willing to do it using the guidelines and patrol routes you've worked out for optimal hunting. A third of every gem they acquire could be sent back to the Tokyo group as a sort of loaner fee. If things don't work out, you send them back none the worse and with a few new Grief seeds under their skirts. The name of the game is friendly relations and efficient cooperation/collection of Grief seeds.
    --[X] Chizuka - or Tsurumi, but probably not both - could do well under Yumi or Koharu.
    --[X] Tamazaki or Miyu or Konno herself could do well under your aegis personally, or possibly the Gundam trio. So that, frankly, you could keep an eye on Tamazaki or Konno with the understanding that if they start farming familiars or backstabbing the group you will come down on them like a ton of pink bricks.
    --[X] Heck, Furuhata and Oshigiri could potentially hold down their own territory in Nagamioka or their current location so long as they were willing to pay heed to us, their adorable overlord.
    -[X] You'll check in with the relevant Nagamioka groups as necessary. We want any group's input before we stick them with a new member, and to address their concerns properly.
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redzonejoe said:
@SystemicHatter



My phone is beong an utter asshat. Please hold for a couple hours for me to reach a computer.

In the meantime, I don't think my post was a strawman. It wasn't an argument against a position so much as a hyperbolic defense of my own position.

Opponent: Too much antagonism
Me: No, Yui is mad, some aggression is fine.

I had a rant in my head about all the shit Yui is repressing, now including the potential that a spy-themed teammate might watch her in her sleep, or other more creepy alternatives best left unmentioned. That's on top of the fact that her soul might have been removed from the cycle of life, her other teammate can read her personality and all her deepest secrets like a literal open book, and she's totally not prepared to lose her innocence to the imminent and inevitable carnage of a war she literally signed up for, so she can't even complain about it.

It was a nice rant. All you guys got was 'no hugs, yui mad'.
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You have never mentioned anything about how Yui was feeling about the situation in your argument, nor tied it into your vote, until you made that particular comment. The major objection to the antagonism is that it treats Konno with contempt, risks giving her the wrong impression of Yui, and possibly undermines our chance of getting her assistance in any attempt to recruit her team members. If you're going to make that argument, though? Chizuka's situation is the thing that should really piss Yui off, and that's something Konno is already attempting to directly address.
 
Any deal will have to wait on Honoka's approval, but she can be persuaded if the benefits are clear. I felt it necessary to take the initiative because she doesn't appreciate how fragile the situation with Chizuka and Miyu may become," Konno says. "I'm not certain you understand either, in fact."
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[x] Plan Less Of A Jerk

[ ] Keep both Koharu and Maiko on a shared line, to coordinate responses and keep getting info.

[ ] With her ability, and position, Konno'd see that fragility better than anyone, you suppose.

[ ] You understand her position - and you're sympathetic to her desires to ensure her own security. The potential to provide more stable support for the rest of her group's members is very much in your interests as well.
--[ ] That said... you won't be made complicit in the sort of backstabbing politicking that is so common in Tokyo. You understand the necessity, on occasion, so you won't hold her past actions against her, but you neither need nor want such measures to be made in your name.
---[ ] Honoko's attitude may make discussing the situation up front and directly with her more difficult, but if, as Konno says, she can be persuaded given clear benefits, then talking to her instead of dealing behind her back is simply far more in line with how you intend to conduct relations.

[ ] As for the offer itself... it's certainly true that at the moment you have a lack of girlpower to secure all of Nagamioka, but that will resolve itself fairly quickly. You do have both a wide array of sensory powers and enough firepower to come down on any interlopers hard, as well as a cute and friendly attitude to help convince more reasonable sorts of the benefits of living under your soft and velvety rule.
-[Q] I will bring peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new empire!
-[ ] While Koharu's assessment may be "uncharitable", that doesn't make it unfounded. Having girls in Nagamioka who don't ultimately answer to you reduces your claim to the city as a whole - and you refuse to let your city devolve into another Tokyo. That's something that'll have to be adressed in any arrangements you make.
 
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@redzonejoe,

What about this?
-[] With her ability, and position, Konno'd see that fragility better than anyone, you suppose.

-[] You understand her position - and you're sympathetic to her desires to ensure her own security. The potential to provide more stable support for the rest of her group's members is very much in your interests as well.
--[] That said... you won't be made complicit in the sort of backstabbing politicking that is so common in Tokyo. You understand the necessity, on occasion, so you won't hold her past actions against her, but you neither need nor want such measures to be associated with your name.

-[] Starting from this point on, let's be clear and honest about what we both intend to gain from this meeting. You'll even go first!

--[] Yui intends to recruit Konno and the others fully into her own swiftly expanding... team, both for the benefits to Yui but also because she intends to keep those girls alive, and can best do so as their leader and protector. Yui understands that a gradual approach is sometimes necessary. Yui is willing to agree to lesser measures in the interim (such as a land lease), with the goal of recruitment down the line. Yui provides the condition that her contribution not be the direct or indirect cause of such strife that the recruitment of other members of the team becomes impossible. No coup.
--[] Yui asks about Konno's original intentions in arranging this meeting, and if, after Yui's own goals are made clear, Konno's intentions are the same, Yui attempts to accommodate Konno's goals so far as they do not conflict with her own goals of protection and eventual recruitment. Where there are disagreements, they attempt to find a middle ground.

It's the last two-parter that I really care about in the vote, laying out our intentions in the open.
I don't know if that satisfies the concerns of others, but at least it does mine, so...
 
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SystemicHatter said:
You have never mentioned anything about how Yui was feeling about the situation in your argument, nor tied it into your vote, until you made that particular comment. The major objection to the antagonism is that it treats Konno with contempt, risks giving her the wrong impression of Yui, and possibly undermines our chance of getting her assistance in any attempt to recruit her team members. If you're going to make that argument, though? Chizuka's situation is the thing that should really piss Yui off, and that's something Konno is already attempting to directly address.
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How Yui's feeling has nothing to do with how or why I constructed the vote the way I did. How Yui's feeling does go into explaining away IC your objections to the vote, even if the only ooc objection to the vote it offers is 'it's fitting IC so leave it'.

I've since conceded the point and will attempt to address it soon.

Nevill said:
@redzonejoe,

What about this?
-[] With her ability, and position, Konno'd see that fragility better than anyone, you suppose.

-[] You understand her position - and you're sympathetic to her desires to ensure her own security. The potential to provide more stable support for the rest of her group's members is very much in your interests as well.
--[] That said... you won't be made complicit in the sort of backstabbing politicking that is so common in Tokyo. You understand the necessity, on occasion, so you won't hold her past actions against her, but you neither need nor want such measures to be made in your name.

-[] Starting from this point on, let's be clear and honest about what we both intend to gain from this meeting. You'll even go first!

-[] Yui intends to recruit Konno and the others fully into her own swiftly expanding... team, both for the benefits to Yui but also because she intends to keep those girls alive, and can best do so as their leader and protector. Yui understands that a gradual approach is sometimes necessary. Yui is willing to agree to lesser measures in the interim (such as a land lease), with the goal of recruitment down the line. Yui provides the condition that her contribution not be the direct or indirect cause of such strife that the recruitment of other members of the team becomes impossible. No coup.
--[] Yui asks about Konno's original intentions in arranging this meeting, and if, after Yui's own goals are made clear, Konno's intentions are the same, Yui attempts to accommodate Konno's goals so far as they do not conflict with her own goals of protection and eventual recruitment. Where there are disagreements, they attempt to find a middle ground.

It's the last two-parter that I really care about in the vote, laying out the intentions in the clear.
I don't know if that satisfies the concerns of others, but at least it does mine, so...
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I'm planning on writing in some changes soon, at a computer. Give it a read, if it doesn't satisfy I'll consider this one instead.
 
Redshirt Army said:
[x] Plan Less Of A Jerk

[ ] Keep both Koharu and Maiko on a shared line, to coordinate responses and keep getting info.

[ ] With her ability, and position, Konno'd see that fragility better than anyone, you suppose.

[ ] You understand her position - and you're sympathetic to her desires to ensure her own security. The potential to provide more stable support for the rest of her group's members is very much in your interests as well.
--[ ] That said... you won't be made complicit in the sort of backstabbing politicking that is so common in Tokyo. You understand the necessity, on occasion, so you won't hold her past actions against her, but you neither need nor want such measures to be made in your name.
---[ ] Honoko's attitude may make discussing the situation up front and directly with her more difficult, but if, as Konno says, she can be persuaded given clear benefits, then talking to her instead of dealing behind her back is simply far more in line with how you intend to conduct relations.

[ ] As for the offer itself... it's certainly true that at the moment you have a lack of girlpower to secure all of Nagamioka, but that will resolve itself fairly quickly. You do have both a wide array of sensory powers and enough firepower to come down on any interlopers hard, as well as a cute and friendly attitude to help convince more reasonable sorts of the benefits of living under your soft and velvety rule.
-[Q] I will bring peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new empire!
-[ ] While Koharu's assessment may be "uncharitable", that doesn't make it unfounded. Having girls in Nagamioka who don't ultimately answer to you reduces your claim to the city as a whole - and you refuse to let your city devolve into another Tokyo. That's something that'll have to be adressed in any arrangements you make.
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Add the various proposals we've already worked out, and I could support it.

[ ] Possible alternative proposals; What are her thoughts on them?
-[ ] A deal similar to what she proposed, but sending over mercenaries to directly work for us, instead of ceding them territory in all but name.
-[ ] Convincing Furuhata to come talk to us and listen when we tell her about her group's problems and how we would like to help. Does Konno think it's possible, and is she willing to possibly forfeit her shot at leadership and still help if the problems can be worked out that way?
-[ ] Ask Maiko if Konno could be trusted to become part of our intel group and behave herself, and if we could integrate the other personalities. If yes, also offer a full annexation of the entire group.
 
[X] Plan Less Of a Jerk

I'm pretty happy with this. Specific negotiations of the kind SWB was talking about and the various branches of my vote were talking about can wait until we've established our position, I reckon.

@Crimson Doom, @Nervos Belli, @Guile and various people who've voted for me or a branch of my vote: I'm switching over to Redshirt Army's vote.
 
Redshirt Army said:
[x] Plan Less Of A Jerk

[ ] Keep both Koharu and Maiko on a shared line, to coordinate responses and keep getting info.

[ ] With her ability, and position, Konno'd see that fragility better than anyone, you suppose.

[ ] You understand her position - and you're sympathetic to her desires to ensure her own security. The potential to provide more stable support for the rest of her group's members is very much in your interests as well.
--[ ] That said... you won't be made complicit in the sort of backstabbing politicking that is so common in Tokyo. You understand the necessity, on occasion, so you won't hold her past actions against her, but you neither need nor want such measures to be made in your name.
---[ ] Honoko's attitude may make discussing the situation up front and directly with her more difficult, but if, as Konno says, she can be persuaded given clear benefits, then talking to her instead of dealing behind her back is simply far more in line with how you intend to conduct relations.

[ ] As for the offer itself... it's certainly true that at the moment you have a lack of girlpower to secure all of Nagamioka, but that will resolve itself fairly quickly. You do have both a wide array of sensory powers and enough firepower to come down on any interlopers hard, as well as a cute and friendly attitude to help convince more reasonable sorts of the benefits of living under your soft and velvety rule.
-[Q] I will bring peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new empire!
-[ ] While Koharu's assessment may be "uncharitable", that doesn't make it unfounded. Having girls in Nagamioka who don't ultimately answer to you reduces your claim to the city as a whole - and you refuse to let your city devolve into another Tokyo. That's something that'll have to be adressed in any arrangements you make.
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Click to shrink...

I like this. You have my bow, good sir!

[X] Redshirt Army
 
Something we might want to consider and probably address at least briefly in our vote is how we want Koharu to play into whatever we say here, and how to best communicate our desires to her (preferably, while avoiding obvious extensive telepathic conversations under Konno's eyes). Do we want her to back us up? Aggressively pick apart whatever Konno says for flaws and ulterior motives, as she appears to be defaulting to? Run some kind of good-cop-bad-cop bit where Yui is nice about everything and Koharu is skeptical, so that Yui appears reasonable and worth working with by contrast? Something else?

If we coordinate with Koharu properly we can get a serious advantage in negotiations because she's both good at socialing and has magical powers which will be actively putting Konno off balance by dragging her attention to Koharu in ways that she likely didn't expect and wasn't prepared for. But if we don't coordinate at all or account for what Koharu will be thinking/saying we could end up worse off than if we'd come alone, because Konno likely would not have a hugely difficult time fracturing our currently-unified social front if we're not coordinating at all.

And aside from that, part of the reason that we brought Koharu was to make her feel like she's being valuable and doing something helpful, as well as like working with Yui is intrinsically rewarding (and hopefully even enjoyable). If we can swing this so that she's acting as part of a coordinated effort instead of deciding where and how to pitch in on her own it's likely to be more effective as far as team-building efforts go. Ideally once this meeting with Konno is over we'll be able to turn to Koharu and go "We are a Dynamic Diplomat Duo and this was so much easier with you here! I'm really glad you were able to come!" and have her feel all warm and fuzzy about it. We can probably make that happen with some relatively small adjustments to the votes being written here.
 
DarkLight140 said:
Something we might want to consider and probably address at least briefly in our vote is how we want Koharu to play into whatever we say here, and how to best communicate our desires to her (preferably, while avoiding obvious extensive telepathic conversations under Konno's eyes). Do we want her to back us up? Aggressively pick apart whatever Konno says for flaws and ulterior motives, as she appears to be defaulting to? Run some kind of good-cop-bad-cop bit where Yui is nice about everything and Koharu is skeptical, so that Yui appears reasonable and worth working with by contrast? Something else?

If we coordinate with Koharu properly we can get a serious advantage in negotiations because she's both good at socialing and has magical powers which will be actively putting Konno off balance by dragging her attention to Koharu in ways that she likely didn't expect and wasn't prepared for. But if we don't coordinate at all or account for what Koharu will be thinking/saying we could end up worse off than if we'd come alone, because Konno likely would not have a hugely difficult time fracturing our currently-unified social front if we're not coordinating at all.

And aside from that, part of the reason that we brought Koharu was to make her feel like she's being valuable and doing something helpful, as well as like working with Yui is intrinsically rewarding (and hopefully even enjoyable). If we can swing this so that she's acting as part of a coordinated effort instead of deciding where and how to pitch in on her own it's likely to be more effective as far as team-building efforts go. Ideally once this meeting with Konno is over we'll be able to turn to Koharu and go "We are a Dynamic Diplomat Duo and this was so much easier with you here! I'm really glad you were able to come!" and have her feel all warm and fuzzy about it. We can probably make that happen with some relatively small adjustments to the votes being written here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean, isn't that built into Plan Less of a Jerk already? What am I missing here?
 
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