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Puella Magi Imperatrix Mundi, or: Wherein Half Of Japan Tries To Kill You

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Nevill said:
Delightfully direct. I might switch. It's been a while since I looked at a girl and thought 'I want her on our inner council'.

Though... you realise that you say you hate backstabbing and political maneuvering, yet you intend to sweep Furuhata's group from under her via a backstage deal with her strategist?
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I intend to sweep Furuhata's group out from in front of Furuhata's face, with her blessing and participation.

We can't help it that this meeting has already been set up, but the condition that Konno not let us be the cause of her group's fracturing means that Konno either has to go back and be completely honest about this meeting and make it work, or she has to keep quiet about the meeting (as she's gained nothing from us without their consent anyways) and convince the rest of her group to negotiate with us up front.

Maybe I could make that more clear in the vote?

And while Yui is going to be obvious about her desire to recruit them all, it's not actually a condition of anything, and so not a result of this underhanded meeting except insofar as this meeting encourages more open, honest contact between our groups.
 
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Guile said:
They see that she still hasn't been told the truth about Witches.

There isn't really anything else I can think of about Yui that would count as a weakness. 'Loving your friends' is only a weakness when you can't rain hot pink fire down on anyone who threatens them from half a city away.
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Yeah I can see Maiko having a miniature panic attack, but Yui is smart enough to know that anything Konno actually divulges would be detrimental to the meeting, and so should be avoided.

A response of 'you have no weaknesses, beyond the obvious importance of every MG's soul gem anyways' would also be pretty cool.

Edit to avoid a triple post:
I'm knackered. I'm going to attempt to sleep, I'll respond to concerns in the 'morn. I may or may not succeed in going to sleep, and as such may be available despite my protests.

Edit 2: I'm really tempted to call them her 'eyes of mystic death perception', but I'm not sure if Yui would be familiar with Tsukihime. It's a bit mature for her innit?
 
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redzonejoe said:
I intend to sweep Furuhata's group out from in front of Furuhata's face, with her blessing and participation.
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Right. Because Yui thinks that a girl saying 'no' to her only means she does not yet know she wants it. :)

I don't know what to think about their recruitment. Feels like we are adopting recruiting everyone we come across because everyone has some kind of problem or other. At this point we will make contact with five neighbouring wards and will be stocked on girls before we even get to know the rest.

However, we do need more people, so maybe a little overeagerness to hire could be overlooked for now.

I would still find it preferable if we could stabilize their ward without taking over and micromanaging them - but that might be wishful thinking.
 
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Guile said:
There isn't really anything else I can think of about Yui that would count as a weakness. 'Loving your friends' is only a weakness when you can't rain hot pink fire down on anyone who threatens them from half a city away.
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Amusingly, that's exactly what Konno's magic did identify as Yui's weakness!

Or rather, to be specific, Konno is aware that she has no chance whatsoever in a fight here, so in the event of things becoming hostile the best plan she found is to witchbomb Koharu privately, over telepathy, and then run like hell while Yui is distracted by Koharu freaking out.

Of course, if she actually expected any significant chance of hostilities she wouldn't be meeting you at all, but when you're a physically-peak-human-at-best meguca with no fancy attacks, it pays to be prepared.
 
redzonejoe said:
Edit 2: I'm really tempted to call them her 'eyes of mystic death perception', but I'm not sure if Yui would be familiar with Tsukihime. It's a bit mature for her innit?
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Apparently Yui doesn't actually watch much anime. Shinobu made a Jojos reference that passed right over her head (insert short joke here).
 
Nevill said:
Right. Because Yui thinks that a girl saying 'no' to her only means she does not yet know she wants it. :)

I don't know what to think about their recruitment. Feels like we are recruiting everyone we come across because everyone has some kind of problem or other. At this point we will make contact with five neighbouring wards and will be stocked on girls before we even get to know the rest.

However, we do need more people, so maybe a little overeagerness to hire could be overlooked for now.

I would still find it preferable if we could stabilize their ward without taking over and micromanaging them - but that might be wishful thinking.
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Well once we reach saturation, our conquest can begin. That's when we start 'stabalizing their ward without taking over and micromanaging them', because we can't micromanage all of Japan right? :V

More seriously, at that point we'd have the forces necessary to project power outwards, which does a lot for keeping a region safe and optimised. As things are, we're more worried about losing territory (and girls) to a foreign invasion, and we are scrambling forces as a result.

Guile said:
Apparently Yui doesn't actually watch much anime. Shinobu made a Jojos reference that passed right over her head (insert short joke here).
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I liked your post, but it made me sad. You got a sad like. Also I should be sleeping damn it!
 
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Nevill said:
I don't know what to think about their recruitment. Feels like we are adopting recruiting everyone we come across because everyone has some kind of problem or other. At this point we will make contact with five neighbouring wards and will be stocked on girls before we even get to know the rest.However, we do need more people, so maybe a little overeagerness to hire could be overlooked for now.
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I agree, Konno was right about us being spread too thin, so hiring everyone we can, as long as they're not going to undermine what we're trying to accomplish isn't currently a bad strategy. The hard part is spotting which ones are going to do that ahead of time.
 
SolipsistSerpent said:
I agree, Konno was right about us being spread too thin, so hiring everyone we can, as long as they're not going to undermine what we're trying to accomplish isn't currently a bad strategy. The hard part is spotting which ones are going to do that ahead of time.
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We're still far from saturation, but the current Witch frenzy is going to die down soon, and then we may have to start turning away worthwhile magical girls or be stretched very thin indeed.
 
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redzonejoe said:
Edit 2: I'm really tempted to call them her 'eyes of mystic death perception', but I'm not sure if Yui would be familiar with Tsukihime. It's a bit mature for her innit?
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Guile said:
Apparently Yui doesn't actually watch much anime. Shinobu made a Jojos reference that passed right over her head (insert short joke here).
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Probably not Yui, no. What anime she does watch tends more towards light-hearted comedy, especially romantic comedies with cute female leads.

I'm actually not all that familiar with the Nasuverse outside memes and fandom osmosis, but from what I have picked up the Nasuverse in general sounds like something Maiko would have liked in her "I only watch anime I can overanalyze and feel smart about" phase. :V

Even odds on Shinobu having watched anything that's not super obscure, Asami watching anything sufficiently hotblooded or with good fight scenes, and Minami watching anything offbeat, cult classic-y, or heavily psychological.
 
SolipsistSerpent said:
I agree, Konno was right about us being spread too thin, so hiring everyone we can, as long as they're not going to undermine what we're trying to accomplish isn't currently a bad strategy. The hard part is spotting which ones are going to do that ahead of time.
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Well our wish says we want to save everyone, right? And while I wouldn't have minded much killing Naomi or Kaede, the thread and therefore Yui voted in favor of trying to save them too, right?

So why wouldn't we want to save these girls? Why would we be willing to poach the best of them and leave the rest to rot? Why would we do anything other than that which gives all of them the best chance of growing to be old? And that means Yui's protection, which means they join us because we're not large enough yet to focus on external affairs.

Unfortunately, as an idealist, Yui is inevitably going to spread herself thin trying to save everybody.

Personally, I think the best option in attempting that is to grow our organization swiftly, so we can snowball to ever greater heights. We don't need to personally befriend every girl we work with, or even trust them. We just need to be the best possible option and then trust in their self-interest.

"You don't want to mess with Yui, she's a tank" becomes "You don't want to mess with those guys, they know everything and are practically untouchable" becomes "you definitely want to join those guys, they're the largest organised group in Japan and they hand out regular rations of grief seeds as long as you find some way to contribute, even outside of combat" becomes "Hey honey I'm home from my 9-5 job of being a medical girl secretary to the empress of Underground Japan."
 
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Crimson Doom said:
Errr, when did this become Puella Magi Grey's Anatomy?
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Echo said:
The Bile Witch, whose nature is self-destruction. A fragile Witch who writhes and thrashes at her bonds, tearing herself to pieces to spite those who seek to help her. To defeat this Witch you need only destroy those who tend her wounds; when her body inevitably ruptures, she will perish quickly.

(Familiar type 1): Familiars of the Bile Witch. Their duty is to stitch up the tears in the Witch's body.
(Familiar type 2): Familiars of the Bile Witch. Their duty is shoo visitors away while the operation is in progress.
Barrier appearance: A run-down, decaying hospital with screams and the sound of heavy machinery echoing in the distance. All the medical equipment is extremely primitive. From the inside, the entrance to the barrier appears as a heavy, propped-open door with a sign reading "MORGUE".

Inner sanctum appearance: An operating room with lots of small tables (where victims are "treated", which usually entails removing various organs and/or grafting on pieces of familiars or other patients) and a large central table where the Witch's body lies.

Witch's appearance: Picture something like Oogie Boogie from Nightmare Before Christmas except with longer limbs, made of loose, flabby skin instead of burlap, and filled with unidentifiable pulsing organs instead of bugs. Her lower body is strapped to the operating table, while her upper body is free to thrash around, indiscriminately attacking familiars, victims, and invading meguca alike with surgical implements she grabs from the familiars. The Witch's skin is thin and tears easily, and rips frequently as she thrashes.

Type 1 familiars: Cartoonish plague doctors with "chibi" proportions, standing less than a meter high and wielding oversized sewing needles that they use to close the tears in the Witch's skin. Often crushed or eaten by the Witch, so they respawn quickly. If they're destroyed quickly enough, the Witch will eventually die when her body ruptures completely.

Type 2 familiars: Zombie nurses wielding oversized scalpels and heavy bone saws who "operate" on the victims. Often missing pieces of their bodies they "donated" to "patients". When patients die, their bodies are disassembled and used to create more of these familiars.
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:V
 
redzonejoe said:
Well once we reach saturation, our conquest can begin.
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Well you got me.

[X] Plan Delightfully soft, and yet still firm.

Talking seriously, though... the thing I like about this plan is being proactive. Hatter's vote lacks committing to any kind of action, even though most of us are probably leaning towards one resolution (stabilization without incorporation) or the other (anschluss!!)

I know one thing. If Konno's ideals and goals are not in conflict with ours, I want that girl on everything that we are doing. Someone who can guide Yui to apply her immense power to its best effect should be worth more than their weight in gold.

...she'll probably be very frustrated with us, though, since we'd be wrong about everything she knows about meguca life, and still want to make it work.
 
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Hmm.
[x] Plan Delightfully soft, and yet still firm.

Nevill said:
I would still find it preferable if we could stabilize their ward without taking over and micromanaging them - but that might be wishful thinking.
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I'm still not convinced that my idea wouldn't do that. Their group has an abundance of combat specialists, and a shortage of Grief Seeds caused by their numbers (and Chizuka). Why wouldn't taking a few non-combat-specialists off their group and paying them in Grief Seeds for that help? It would improve their ability to defend themselves long-term, wouldn't significantly reduce their peak capacity, and also would get ride of one or two interpersonal conflicts. Konno would likely be able to convince Furuhata that it's reasonable.
 
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Echo said:
Obviously not. Any deal will have to wait on Honoka's approval, but she can be persuaded if the benefits are clear. I felt it necessary to take the initiative because she doesn't appreciate how fragile the situation with Chizuka and Miyu may become," Konno says. "I'm not certain you understand either, in fact.
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I feel like pointing out that Konno has point blank said there needs to be some notable and obvious benefit or the deal is off. Plans aiming to recruit some or all of them directly seem pretty low on the compensation that is needed to get them approved.

Second note is that Konno pretty much comes out and says to our faces that Miyu is likely to witch out shortly, and likely take Chizuka along for the ride. And Yui lacks the information to realize that rather important detail.

Konno is offering, much like the AI of GalCiv II & III, a decent deal. There are nuances that we might want to tweak, but the balance is roughly there. We are unlikely to be able to get significantly more than this at the present juncture so far as I can figure.
 
That much is understood:
redzonejoe said:
Yui understands that a gradual approach is sometimes necessary. Yui is willing to agree to lesser measures in the interim (such as a land lease), with the understanding of recruitment down the line.
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However, we intend to be direct with Konno and tell her what we want out of this deal in the long run.

She is uniquely positioned for planning, so she might be able to make it work if she thinks it's worth it to her. Since the prospects of switching to Yui's side seem to outweigh the prospects of commanding a collapsing team on a tiny plot of land that can't even sustain them all, I have a reason to believe she might give it a consideration and work to influence Furuhata towards accepting.

It will not be an immediate process.
 
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Noumero said:
I'm still not convinced that my idea wouldn't do that. Their group has an abundance of combat specialists, and a shortage of Grief Seeds caused by their numbers (and Chizuka). Why wouldn't taking off a few non-combat-specialists off their group and paying them in Grief Seeds for that help? It would improve their ability to defend themselves long-term, wouldn't significantly reduce their peak capacity, and also would get ride of one or two interpersonal conflicts.
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Hmm. I think that's a short term solution personally. At least for Yui's definition. Magical girls have a very high mortality rate, and we have no reason to suspect this group, with or without all of its members, would be any different if they continued to operate in the same old way. New girls would disrupt the balance, others might change their mind and attempt to defect to us leaving the remainder vulnerable, a larger group might target them in revenge or just to take land, regular magical gurl stuff.

The only way anybody is gonna make it long term enough to satisfy Yui is if they're properly protected by Yui, and properly organised so as to ensure stable grief seed acquisition and use.

At least, that's my current take on Yui's take on things.
Join Yui = Live,
Fight Yui = Lose, maybe die
Avoid Yui = Regular MG mortality rates, probably die

Therefore, all live = all join Yui, aggressive conquest for peace and love is the only compassionate choice :V

Tallamee said:
I feel like pointing out that Konno has point blank said there needs to be some notable and obvious benefit or the deal is off. Plans aiming to recruit some or all of them directly seem pretty low on the compensation that is needed to get them approved.

Second note is that Konno pretty much comes out and says to our faces that Miyu is likely to witch out shortly, and likely take Chizuka along for the ride. And Yui lacks the information to realize that rather important detail.
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Leaving aside the discussion of making decisions based on metagaming...

My vote can be summed up as "this is what I want, and this is what I'm willing to give you", where what we want is to give them things. We're still giving them a damn good deal, and our only real condition is a promise that they don't literally or figuratively tear themselves apart trying to accept it.

"I've got enough food for all of you, please don't fight over this first bowl of soup while I pour you another, okay?"
 
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I'm happy with the stated intention of @redzonejoe's vote, but I haven't had time to do more than skim over the vote itself. I am also undecided on the ambitions expressed which go beyond that.
 
redzonejoe said:
Leaving aside the discussion of making decisions based on metagaming...

My vote can be summed up as "this is what I want, and this is what I'm willing to give you", where what we want is to give them things. We're still giving them a damn good deal, and our only real condition is a promise that they don't literally or figuratively tear themselves apart trying to accept it.

"I've got enough food for all of you, please don't fight over this first bowl of soup while I pour you another, okay?"
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Okay, let me rephrase my question: What does Konno want and how does this deal help her get it, and what does Furuhata want and how does this deal help her get it?

Take a moment and imagine that we are playing for Konno or Furuhata, and then consider how you would respond to someone who approached you with the offer that you are proposing. The holier than thou bits serve a purpose, from Yui's end, but are pretty antagonistic from the other side.
 
Tallamee said:
Okay, let me rephrase my question: What does Konno want and how does this deal help her get it, and what does Furuhata want and how does this deal help her get it?

Take a moment and imagine that we are playing for Konno or Furuhata, and then consider how you would respond to someone who approached you with the offer that you are proposing. The holier than thou bits serve a purpose, from Yui's end, but are pretty antagonistic from the other side.
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Well the best we can do is guess at their intentions until they tell us. I am, after all, asking Konno what she actually wants instead of proposing a deal for her to follow.

What I suspect that Konno wants is a way out of an unsavory situation. An escape from a team on the verge of implosion, without leaving herself lonely and vulnerable. She can do this by joining a more stable team, or by somehow saving her current team despite their best efforts towards unknowing self-destruction. Yui can help with either task, but I imagine neither of us/them are willing to let the group die if it's possible to save them.

As for what Furuhata wants... I don't know. Does she know how precarious her situation is? Would she agree with Konno if she had all the information? Would she value her pride as a leader more than the lives of her allies? It's too hard to tell atm.
 
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Tallamee said:
Take a moment and imagine that we are playing for Konno or Furuhata, and then consider how you would respond to someone who approached you with the offer that you are proposing.
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Can you elabotate? What do you think is being proposed, and what do you think would Konno's reaction be? Because it doesn't sound like we are on the same wavelength.

I won't answer for Furuhata, because as much as redzonejoe wants to say otherwise, she isn't being asked*. I would, however, point out that Konno gets an alliance offer from a girl who is more powerful and wealthy than Konno can ever dream to become on her own - so long as he plays by our rules and if they do not preclude her goals. Any ambitious sort would perk up at that, it's a better opportunity than contesting for scraps in Nerima Ward.

As for what they want, I would assume that like most girls they want a sustainable existence without being chased away by greedy neighbours, or Grief Seed starving, or Witch-out dramas. Beyond that we know little of them and their personal goals.

*if Konno cooperates, then Furuhata is being set up to 'realize' that whatever she wants she may be able to get by joining. I suppose Konno would tell us what we can do to make it more palatable to her.
 
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