Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
uneasy is good
uneasy gets
shit
done
uneasy gets
shit
done
Sworn to the State: A Magical Quest
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
And? Does Vashti seem like some kind of highly philosophical mature saint who's thought through the implications of her desires in detail?
Flaws are good. Flaws give us character arcs, challenges, and stories.
You're not wrong. But I'd argue we aren't looking for the perfect character that doesn't have any problems here. We're looking to create the legend of Vashti.
Edit:
Also, if we cause atrocities, that's gonna be on us. Like, having ideals that could be be used as justification for atrocities is hardly abnormal. Especially for people who do Great ThingsTM (though we'll try to avoid Terrible
)
Last edited:
- Location
- National Capital Region, USA
[X] To make a safe place for the people I love.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Making a safe place feels too small a goal though. Vashti's an ambitious kid and it feels weird for her to simply aim for a place where she and her loved ones can hide away and be safe. She seems to want actual change.
[X] To become someone others can look up to.
This is my fave though. To aspire to be someone worthy of respect. Ties in well with her ranting about wanting to be seen earlier and is broad enough to fit her more ambitious goals, too.
Last edited:
Pandemonious Ivy
Panties, Revolution. Big Drawers. Parachute.
And? Does Vashti seem like some kind of highly philosophical mature saint who's thought through the implications of her desires in detail?
Flaws are good. Flaws give us character arcs, challenges, and stories.
You're not wrong. But I'd argue we aren't looking for the perfect character that doesn't have any problems here. We're looking to create the legend of Vashti.
Edit:
Also, if we cause atrocities, that's gonna be on us. Like, having ideals that could be be used as justification for atrocities is hardly abnormal. Especially for people who do Great ThingsTM (though we'll try to avoid Terrible
1. "And?" And it makes me uneasy. Therefore I dislike it and have problems with it. Which I already listed.
2. Vashti is a scholar skilled enough, at least in this lesser Age, to become a Vicar and study enough to understand and grasp (physically and literally) the concepts necessary to become one. Vashti doesn't need to be some caricature of a philosophy major or a saint in order to have any sort of concept of the consequences of her actions. At the bare minimum? That saying something shifty to the guy who kills Vicars will mean that he'll probably kill her later. Which leads into-
3. Vashti has flaws aplenty without purposely trying to add them. She's irreverent, disrespectful, arrogant, brash, impetuous, impatient, and many other things that both fit her perfectly and don't fit her at all, but elders would see it in her regardless. Adding "contemplating a global war of conquest" with any sort of seriousness beyond the idle daydreams of a child who has yet to have reality counterbalance her ambition? That's neither necessary (objectively) nor is it anything I'm interested in for her character (subjectively).
4. This entire post of yours is baffling to me. It seems more like you're saying that even with the implications in the write in, it's fine because it adds an interesting flaw and *shrug*, basically. Which is a fine stance to take, I suppose, but is the intention to convince me of something or just to show a counterpoint that happens to start with "And?" If this is meant to be persuasive, it didn't work for me, because it just tries to justify Vashti going from "a little shit" to "a terror in the making", and not in a good way. If it's just meant to be informative, then I appreciate you taking the time to share.
Sorry, I probably phrased things badly.
I guess my point is that I don't see any real reason to be overly concerned yet? Vashti has big dreams. She wants to be great. She wants to bring her family back. She wants to be a hero. All of these actions can create conflict, and the potential for things to go horribly wrong. This can invite character development and interesting stories.
That doesn't mean that Vashti doing terrible things is inevitable. The tension between our ambitions, and the "easy route" to achieving them creates interesting conflicts and drama, and this can be good.
Like, I get what you're saying about being uneasy, but I kind of see it as somewhat paranoid at this stage?
Looking at this line of yours, I'd say what I take issue with lies here:
You say "requires a warlike mentality", I say "pushes us to go out and actually do stuff". And "can be achieved instantly and without harming those who mean no harm"? I wouldn't read the safe place option as working like that, but "achieve easily and safely without effort" seems like the opposite of an engaging story.
I'm not sure if that's what you intended, but I was bit confused by the idea that we'd want a safe and easy ambition.
Last edited:
Pandemonious Ivy
Panties, Revolution. Big Drawers. Parachute.
You poor sweet summerchild. I am this thread's living embodiment of paranoia. I haunt this thread until the angelic menace has been eliminated and Best Baba has been elevated to her proper throne in heaven (next to ours, of course).
No but seriously:
I'm fairly predictable and consistent. Cetash is seeding the word "angel" into every update because he wants to give me grey hairs early, but I'm on to him!
Fair enough, I didn't see it that way, I believe that it'd have different scale and scope, not necessarily different intensity, if that makes any sense.
Ah, ok. I agree with that.
The reason I moved away from that option though was because I was looking for something that I felt would better express what we'd seen from Vashti so far. The problem, I feel, with the given "safe place" option is that it feels a little, idk, passive? for Vashti. I kind of feel like she's someone with larger and more active ambitions than that...
otoh, that might be going too far. She does, afterall, favor Rongen and Zurahna, which is a fairly defensive "let me live in my own little world" kind of attitude...
[X] To avenge the family that I lost.
- Location
- Dreiländereck
Could finally read the update.
I spoilered some of my thoughts while reading it.
Secondly I know somebody is shaking their fist.
When I think about it, I think it is interesting that he seems to favour Mentsh, the rigidity of etiquette and ritual, while his apprentice with the lower-class background despises it. Might explain why they don't really understand each other.
With that out of the way, I will go with option number three.
[X] To become someone others can look up to.
None of the options seem out of character for me but this one plays to Vashti's wish to be seen. Her desire to to be recognized while still being a good person.
I spoilered some of my thoughts while reading it.
I think everybody has a subject where they react like that.
First of all it is always nice to get a little background to the different schools and it makes sense to me that Vashti sees the world through the lense of her favoured schools. Or in this case takes comfort in their teachings.
Secondly I know somebody is shaking their fist.
Oh, of course it makes sense that Vashti despises the ethical school that says she should just be a peasant without ambitions or dreams of her own.
So now we have a rough oversight about the religious orders and their duties in our country. Do they all have their own paths to enlightenment and superpowers? What happened to the Meliks? I am sure there is a lot more stuff in this paragraph I don't get.
Oh god, that is sad
That is painfull to read, even more so if you know people who had such an upbringing.
Speak to me you neglectful idiot. I am sure Godei has reasons for his behaviour, or at least he thinks he does, but he sure failed the master-apprentice-relationship class.
When I think about it, I think it is interesting that he seems to favour Mentsh, the rigidity of etiquette and ritual, while his apprentice with the lower-class background despises it. Might explain why they don't really understand each other.
I like the description of the library, I can practically smell the books.
Ah yes, a medieval monastery. We are poor, clothe in burlap but don't ask how much this desk cost.
Godei a little bit more would sure have been useful.
So is Tado in contact with the Penitents to get rid of the army? Also once again the Vicar's have a lot of enemies.
Ok, this is important. They sound like quite the force multipliers and posess abilities I am not sure we knew were possible. I want to look into that particular mystery box.
I like Abbot Tado, he sounds like a decent man.
Oh god, that is cute and funny.
The entire exchange beforehand is great. Vashti standing her ground, Bluff being slightly perplexed but still a clear threat. Thinking about it, Vasthi figured Bluff out pretty fast and he compliments her on her observance in comparison to other Vicars. Is that because she favours Chesed and that paricular school is not favoured by most other Vicar's, or are they too pridefull to actually look at other people? Or is that her peasant upbringing and her prior experience eith him speaking? Hm, maybe it's a combination.
Once again I liked the little fight scene. It conveyed clearly what these schools do, that Vashti is dangerous but still a learner and that Bluff could swat her if he wanted.
Ok, that answers my question about other paths to enlighenment and superpowers. Also pot meet kettle.
You can practically see his thought-process here: "I don't want to kill the girl, but she is a Vicar... damn, I need a reason to not kill her...ah, hospitality of course let's go with that."
With that out of the way, I will go with option number three.
[X] To become someone others can look up to.
None of the options seem out of character for me but this one plays to Vashti's wish to be seen. Her desire to to be recognized while still being a good person.
Last edited:
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Bluff isn't necessarily getting his powers from being a Red Penitent. Far as Vashti knows the only people with those kinds of powers were Vicars.
actually, changing vote:
[X]
this is the correct choice
[X]
this is the correct choice
- Location
- Diamond City
[X] To make a world where no one will ever have to fear losing their family as I lost mine.
Vashti's going to turn out to be like Judith sooner or later, isn't she?
Vashti's going to turn out to be like Judith sooner or later, isn't she?
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Unfortunately, rejected.
I was actually in Rome this summer and saw Caravaggio's Judith. Fantastic painting.
But probably not, no
- Location
- Under your porch.
[JK] To be the best like no one ever was, to catch them as it is my real test.. to train the spirits as it is my cause.
....
But for real though
[X] To make a world where no one will ever have to fear losing their family as I lost mine.
....
But for real though
[X] To make a world where no one will ever have to fear losing their family as I lost mine.
- Location
- Diamond City
I was actually in Rome this summer and saw Caravaggio's Judith. Fantastic painting.
But probably not, no
And here I was sharpening my general-killing knife.
[X] To become someone others can look up to.
I like this option and vote for it.
I like this option and vote for it.