Undertale Discussion Thread

There's a couple moments around the fight where Kris will do stuff that's a bit erratic and unnerving, like the way they start hitting the body if you examine it after it doesn't start up initially. At the time I'd just been like "yeah, it's that horror game trope. Wonder if that means Kris is getting mind-whammied a bit," and then didn't think much more about it. But thinking about it now, I wonder if that's just, Kris really doesn't want to be doing this. Like the whole thing's pretty freaky and obviously a bad idea, but because of us Kris doesn't have any choice whether they can do it or not, so the whole time they're just wigging out and unable to do anything about it, and so when they have those brief opportunities to let it out it comes out intense.
 
Yeah I mean really, Spamton is instance vibe check failure from the start and literally all the party comments on it when they can.

No it's cool Kris it's just a creepy unstable weirdo who looks like the fucking puppet from Saw and is obviously trying to scam you. Just walk into his hut made of trash it's fine it's cool.
 
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Reveen said:
Yeah I mean really, Spamton is instance vibe check failure from the start and literally all the part comments on it.

No it's cool Kris it's just a creepy unstable weirdo who looks like the fucking puppet from Saw and is obviously trying to scam you. Just walk into his hut made of trash it's fine it's cool.
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I generally get the impression people are in two minds. Firstly that for Kris it is a legitimately terrifying experience and should be treated with sympathy and understanding. Second, that on the meta level Spamton is amazing and hilarious and we're going to meme him to hell and back.
 


In which a song for an already bad situation is re-contextualized for a much worse situation.
 
My impression regarding Kris optionally hitting the secret boss thing is that it's just supposed to be a "It's not doing anything. Hit device to make it work" thing, possibly as a way of expressing player annoyance at seemingly not getting what we want. That's if I was to give a reason to it.

I've made my way through most of chapter 1 again. I think I've not missed anything this time, but I now have Jevil to go through. I've tested the waters so far to see if I can improve my dodging and approach. I'm not as bad at dodging as I feared, though having a controller makes a lot of difference for me. I'm still adjusting mentally to not having my terrible keyboard movement as a sad barrier to be stuck with, as I was when ch1 came out.

Also, ch1 has made me miss the ch2 storage system.
 
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Reveen said:
Yeah I mean really, Spamton is instance vibe check failure from the start and literally all the party comments on it when they can.

No it's cool Kris it's just a creepy unstable weirdo who looks like the fucking puppet from Saw and is obviously trying to scam you. Just walk into his hut made of trash it's fine it's cool.
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IIRC, when you visit Spamton's trash house with Noelle, she comments that Kris always had a thing for creepy stuff like this.
 
My question is... do you think Noelle is going to be back in another Dark World? Obviously not Chapter 3's, but another one?

On the one hand, she's great and more Dark World Noelle stuff is good... but on the other hand there are multiple paths for Noelle in Chapter 2, and it feels like a (I haven't played it, but I have heard about it) post-Snowgrave Noelle would react very differently to Kris and being in another Dark World than a post-Pacifist Noelle.

Which adds complexity: either two paths, or more if you want to make it so that doing SnowGrave doesn't lock you into Noelle being a violent killer in the next one... or maybe it should? It depends on how much you want to set with each 'Dark World' I suppose.

Like, what does it mean to go Pacifist for the first four Chapters (when there are four out), then go violent for Chapter 5... and then go Pacifist for Chapters 6 and 7??
 
The Laurent said:
My question is... do you think Noelle is going to be back in another Dark World? Obviously not Chapter 3's, but another one?

On the one hand, she's great and more Dark World Noelle stuff is good... but on the other hand there are multiple paths for Noelle in Chapter 2, and it feels like a (I haven't played it, but I have heard about it) post-Snowgrave Noelle would react very differently to Kris and being in another Dark World than a post-Pacifist Noelle.
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There's speculation that one of the future chapters will have Noelle creating a Dark World in the Hospital. Her fathers condition seems to have gotten worse from Chapter 1 to 2, so if that trend continues the idea that she would create one there to bring him in so she can use her healing magic to try and fix whatever is wrong (assuming that even will end up working like that).

I feel like either state of Noelle will still have that motivation, and the end state will likely also be the same (it works, it doesn't work) and it's just a matter of the details of what sort of things that she'd be willing to do in going from the shared starting point to shared end.
 
You have to go wildly out of your way to do the Snowgrave route, so I feel like it'd be only appropriate that the next time Noelle shows up in a dark world it would basically be forcing you into bad time automatically. For the sake of saving time and labor it would maybe be a lot shorter but a lot harder like the original Snowgrave, with a lot of the wacky fun sucked out of it. Because SnowGrave is such a fucking cursed bad route that you deserve it.

I also think it would be really cool if going bad time routes remove characters out of the post-Dark World epilogue and the town gets progressively quieter and quieter as you ruin people's lives with dark world antics. Noelle isn't leaving her house, so no dates with Suzie going forward. Same with whoever else you fuck over and/or kill possibly including your mom. And in that case considering that Chap 3 is going to be in Kris's house, you might end up with your mom not talking to you for like 5/7's of the whole fucking game.

I imagine the game is going to have a little mercy, like maybe being able to reset from a previous chapter to go back and... not gaslight the player characters childhood friend into murdering a classmate for literally no reason?
 
Reveen said:
You have to go wildly out of your way to do the Snowgrave route, so I feel like it'd be only appropriate that the next time Noelle shows up in a dark world it would basically be forcing you into bad time automatically. For the sake of saving time and labor it would maybe be a lot shorter but a lot harder like the original Snowgrave, with a lot of the wacky fun sucked out of it. Because SnowGrave is such a fucking cursed bad route that you deserve it.

I also think it would be really cool if going bad time routes remove characters out of the post-Dark World epilogue and the town gets progressively quieter and quieter as you ruin people's lives with dark world antics. Noelle isn't leaving her house, so no dates with Suzie going forward. Same with whoever else you fuck over and/or kill possibly including your mom. And in that case considering that Chap 3 is going to be in Kris's house, you might end up with your mom not talking to you for like 5/7's of the whole fucking game.

I imagine the game is going to have a little mercy, like maybe being able to reset from a previous chapter to go back and... not gaslight the player characters childhood friend into murdering a classmate for literally no reason?
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That's a point.

The Weird Route being hard to get to is helpful in a way, in that it means that it can just be kept off to the side.

There's only two major routes in Chapter 2, right?
 
The Laurent said:
There's only two major routes in Chapter 2, right?
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Hmmm, kinda?

There are only two main story paths yeah, but Berdly can end in three different states:

- If you go full pacifist, he's fine. He wakes up with Noelle, no problems.
- If you do the Weird Route, he's possibly dead in the end.
- And, if Berdly is defeated through fighting in his Cyber City battle, he basically loses his arm by the end.

 
Acknowledgment of the ch1 violent route was something patched in to chapter 2. Considering that and the problems the weird route could cause for plotting, it wouldn't be that much of a surprise if chapter 3 basically did the same thing, with you starting it and it going "What weird route? No, you were a good player and got the good ending". Plus, there's there's how the player can mess with Noelle's head further at the hospital for Snowgrave. I could see factoring in an optional choice like that in addition to the route being something a person might want to avoid and just not do.
 
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What I thought was that the reason Chapter 1 didn't really have a Weird route like Chapter 2 did, aside from Susie being able to ignore the Player's commands when she felt like it, was because Chapter 1 was supposed to give us reoccurring plot-central characters like Susie and Ralsei so they had to have consistent character arcs, whereas the chapters afterwards will introduce new characters and party members each chapter with their own dynamics and such. My prediction is Noelle and other such characters may get some development in the overworld and their arc may have some sort of climax near the end.
 
As I see it, Noelle is too connected to Susie, Kris and Asriel, plus had a lot left hanging for her in my opinion. I'm sure that we'll have characters added to the cast, but I feel that Noelle isn't done in regards to the dark world. I also feel that ch1 and the start of 2 were written as they were partially to push players into a particular position. At the start of ch2, I feel that we're supposed to see the dark world in the sort of fun adventurous way that Susie does, plus I'm confident that the pie thing was partially done to cool down those going "Wish, Kris is Chara!". Anyway, my feeling from ch2 is that the main cast of Deltarune is probably going to expand, especially if whatever happened with the Dreemurs becomes entangled in the dark world plot. Like Noelle's family situation, it feels like it'll probably be something bigger and harder to move past in a chapter than Berdly's problems.
 
I really love how that Spamton animation has him being almost normal'ish. Even when he's in his 'weird salesman' mode, outside of [These lines] he seems like he's 'just' pretty off rather then a malfunctioning robot.

Also I appreciate how the last line has a different cadence to it. You can really tell it's not quite him who's speaking.
 
After careful consideration I have decided that Suisei is truly a harem protagonist because I'm pretty sure Kris is developing a crush on her.

She heals for the same amount as Noel, his childhood friend. He doesn't stutter when prompted to say he'd go to the festival with Suzy (he stutters on all other choices) and quite frankly I think they're cute and I am running with this!
 
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Dream Logic said:
After careful consideration I have decided that Suisei is truly a harem protagonist because I'm pretty sure Kris is developing a crush on her.

She heals for the same amount as Noel, his childhood friend. He doesn't stutter when prompted to say he'd go to the festival with Suzy (he stutters on all other choices) and quite frankly I think they're cute and I am running with this!
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You headcanon Kris as male? I feel like they have a lot of nonbinary gremlin energy.
 
The Laurent said:
You headcanon Kris as male? I feel like they have a lot of nonbinary gremlin energy.
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More my brain kind of automatically assumes male because mental shortcut and am otherwise pro Kris is 'NB until proven otherwise'

Generally I try to refer to Kris in gender neutral for the obvious reasons but sometimes slip up on that.

I am ready to face the circular firing squad if this forum deems necessary. My only regret was that I could not live up to our ideals, and that I will see neither my own ship nor the polyharem play out
 
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Yeah I feel like Kris is pretty definitively NB, but back when chapter 1 came out I just saw the name Kris and figured that was a guy's name. Would've sworn people called them he in chapter 1 if you'd asked me right after I'd finished playing it. Still need to catch myself from time to time.
 
My read on Susie and Kris is that Kris sees something of Asriel as the bigger, tougher, more boisterous sibling to their quieter personality in her. I also read them as trying to meddle with Susie and Noelle trying to play wingman for both of them, possibly out of a desire to recapture the childhood friend group they had back in the day. Like, there's a lot of hints of Kris's character being driven by their missing their brother and I'm sure things are going to tie into eachother pretty neatly.

Also, it's funny how more forceful Noelle is when she's around Kris. She's still generally passive but whenever Kris is involved Noelle becomes more willing to be proactive within that passivity. Like using Kris and Susie partnering as an opportunity to make her move, lying to the team that Kris said she should be behind Noelle. She has a bit of capacity for duplicitousness in there and I wonder if that's going to come up as a flaw to confront in character development.

It's also possible that a lot of her passivity is caused by Berdly, because he's so incessantly annoying and if your face all the time that she just gives up trying to do anything when he's around.
 
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Reveen said:
My read on Susie and Kris is that Kris sees something of Asriel as the bigger, tougher, more boisterous sibling to their quieter personality in her. I also read them as trying to meddle with Susie and Noelle trying to play wingman for both of them, possibly out of a desire to recapture the childhood friend group they had back in the day. Like, there's a lot of hints of Kris's character being driven by their missing their brother and I'm sure things are going to tie into eachother pretty neatly.

Also, it's funny how more forceful Noelle is when she's around Kris. She's still generally passive but whenever Kris is involved Noelle becomes more willing to be proactive within that passivity. Like using Kris and Susie partnering as an opportunity to make her move, lying to the team that Kris said she should be behind Noelle. She has a bit of capacity for duplicitousness in there and I wonder if that's going to come up as a flaw to confront in character development.
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Her Mom's the mayor, and in Undertale World being the leader means lying to everyone under you in ways that mostly only hurt them and at best give them false hope while being a monstrous hypocrite. So, suspect that that pattern might continue and reflect on Noelle.
 
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