- Location
- Someplace USA
Lines are.... complicated and really really hard in this setting. Cause you know legitimate apocalyptic threats and struggles.
-
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The Long Night Part Two: Sparks at Midnight: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k)
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Evaunit02mark1
S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.
On the flipside that's what makes this vote so compelling.
When you're literally fighting hell can you afford to draw a line?
Can you afford not to?
- Location
- Australia
I don't think anyone would do that. In real life maybe, but Sparks humans are too reasonable and rational.
- Location
- Pale Blue Dot
That is very much a cultural thing. If you looked at the Old Imperium, or Chaos humans? Noooooot so much.
RogueInquisitor
Unexpected!
I will just point out that Avetnus was probably the only place controlled by the Sane that had any form of soul trade. Working for the Ynarri, I doubt we will be able to find another soul trading partner on the side of the Sane.
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Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
I think this is a really good point. If Rotbart is stepping away from the Trust he'll probably have the luxury of not worrying about soul trading much at all. In terms of meaningful red lines for his character, im inclined to think there's harder questions around things like:
- Abandoning (or destroying) civilian populations for tactical gains.
- Collateral damage to reality (particularly in the context of the Dragon War)
- Causes he'll fight for (what kind of war is Rotbart willing to fight, particularly post Long Night? If a strategically important star system is held by a random non-aligned species, when is it unacceptable to conquer it by force?)
- Groups he'll deal with -- I do think there's a real option to say he'll never deal with Chaos or anything like them. Presumably there are parts of the Dragon Front that don't have Chaos involvement that still need talented generals.
This makes me remember that we trade the souls of the cultist to the sirens for runes and their knowledge, but really their souls even in their own hand anymore so we still should be doing a service for them not having to spend eternity suffering.
- Location
- Africa
that really depends on the enemy, like if its the forces of chaos who would corrupt the population or sacrifice their souls to the chaos gods to summon more demons going scorched earth is justified since at least this way the civilian population even if their dead won't be condemned to being consumed by chaos , then there are foes like the dark eldar who would inflict fates worse than death on any civilian population that falls into their hands then feed them to a chaos god anyway you could argue then wiping the civilian population out would be a mercy then at least it will be quick or the Tyranids who would add the civilian population's biomass to their own letting them grow stronger
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
[] You need to be trusted to lead..
...Most of all by yourself.
It might be tactically inconvenient, but when your soldiers know you're not going to Black Iron them without them knowing, they are more certain, more confident. Because they trust you. They fight better. The number of times where it's tactically expeditious to unknowing soldiers being sacrificed isn't actually a lot of combat situations and the cost in all the other battles when your soldiers don't trust you so much adds up.
As for innocents, while keeping them out of harm's way is the objective, the fact of the matter is that the galaxy is such that this is presently impossible. You will not condemn them to worse than death, however. Sacrificing innocent souls is already a line you have refused to cross, and that is for the best.
As for Chaos, manipulating them into fighting someone not you is by now a time honored tradition. As long as you're not manipulating them to fight someone innocent you're good to go.
===
something something like this
...Most of all by yourself.
It might be tactically inconvenient, but when your soldiers know you're not going to Black Iron them without them knowing, they are more certain, more confident. Because they trust you. They fight better. The number of times where it's tactically expeditious to unknowing soldiers being sacrificed isn't actually a lot of combat situations and the cost in all the other battles when your soldiers don't trust you so much adds up.
As for innocents, while keeping them out of harm's way is the objective, the fact of the matter is that the galaxy is such that this is presently impossible. You will not condemn them to worse than death, however. Sacrificing innocent souls is already a line you have refused to cross, and that is for the best.
As for Chaos, manipulating them into fighting someone not you is by now a time honored tradition. As long as you're not manipulating them to fight someone innocent you're good to go.
===
something something like this
- Location
- parker colorado
Here's my thought
[] pragmatic sacrifices
While many things can be sacrificed in war, the sacrifices must be known. If you must sacrifice your troops it will have purpose. As for the innocent while they may be caught in the fires of war you will never sacrifice their souls. Only the damned should pay that price.
Chaos is stupid, dangerous, but also currently the biggest. In the fires of war against the lesser threats they have their place. If chance finds you fighting on the same battlefield you will not sabotage the battle to end them. If you can spend their soldiers lives through trickery instead of your own you will. But negotiating with them is a step to far. Their masters will seek to pervert any deal and their honor will not prevent betrayal at the end.
[] pragmatic sacrifices
While many things can be sacrificed in war, the sacrifices must be known. If you must sacrifice your troops it will have purpose. As for the innocent while they may be caught in the fires of war you will never sacrifice their souls. Only the damned should pay that price.
Chaos is stupid, dangerous, but also currently the biggest. In the fires of war against the lesser threats they have their place. If chance finds you fighting on the same battlefield you will not sabotage the battle to end them. If you can spend their soldiers lives through trickery instead of your own you will. But negotiating with them is a step to far. Their masters will seek to pervert any deal and their honor will not prevent betrayal at the end.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
[X] You need to be trusted to lead..
...Most of all by yourself.
It might be tactically inconvenient, but when your soldiers know you're not going to Black Iron them without them knowing, they are more certain, more confident. Because they trust you. They fight better. The number of times where it's tactically expeditious to unknowing soldiers being sacrificed isn't actually a lot of combat situations and the cost in all the other battles when your soldiers don't trust you so much adds up.
As for innocents, while keeping them out of harm's way is the objective, the fact of the matter is that the galaxy is such that this is presently impossible. You will not condemn them to worse than death, however. Sacrificing innocent souls is already a line you have refused to cross, and that is for the best.
As for Chaos, manipulating them into fighting someone not you is by now a time honored tradition. As long as you're not manipulating them to fight someone innocent you're good to go.
...Most of all by yourself.
It might be tactically inconvenient, but when your soldiers know you're not going to Black Iron them without them knowing, they are more certain, more confident. Because they trust you. They fight better. The number of times where it's tactically expeditious to unknowing soldiers being sacrificed isn't actually a lot of combat situations and the cost in all the other battles when your soldiers don't trust you so much adds up.
As for innocents, while keeping them out of harm's way is the objective, the fact of the matter is that the galaxy is such that this is presently impossible. You will not condemn them to worse than death, however. Sacrificing innocent souls is already a line you have refused to cross, and that is for the best.
As for Chaos, manipulating them into fighting someone not you is by now a time honored tradition. As long as you're not manipulating them to fight someone innocent you're good to go.
My main problem with the soul trade is that it creates a upside how ever small in having people fall to chaos.
Their absolutly shoudn't be any incentive for this to happen especilly under a goverment which pratice "for the greater good" mentality
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Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
I really like this write in! Sadly, though, my reading comprehension is poor, so I have a few questions ✌️
- Re: Sacrificing soldiers -- is the red line here Black ironing soldiers who haven't volunteered for it, or them not knowing they're being sacrificed? If it's necessary and Rotbart is fighting a desperate retreat, do you want him to only use volunteers for a delaying force? What do you want him to do if that's not possible?
- Re: Chaos -- I see that manipulation is approved of, what's the red line in that context? Is it anything past that? Even though it makes his odds of staying uncorrupted in the epilogue worse, I think there are probably some hypothetical deals from the relatively saner members of chaos that I'd want Rotbart to be able to make as a Dragon War commander. Would you put cooperation with e.g. Solariel under manipulation?
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Black Iron was more euphemism for unknowing sacrifice.
Rotbart has to use volunteers. If it's not possible then he has to make it work without sacrifices or just die.
Honestly I didn't think about Soleriel here. Working with Soleriel would be going past a line... unless they were dechaosified. Um. Will need thinking on.
Chroniqler
Naught but a simple wanderer
Maybe something about attempts to pull people and things away from Chaos being valid? Admittedly, trying to sever a first-generation Exalted from Chaos is a good deal more ambitious than any other conversions done so far, but it's been shown that pulling people out of that abyss is possible.
Strange9
hdellaverson@gmail.com
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
After thinking about it, I think I probably end up even further than that? If Solariel or Bel (or a lieutenant thereof, etc) rocks up and says, 'due to the vagaries of the shifting front and the chaos of war, we've ended up commanding adjacent sectors of the Dragon Front. We should communicate regarding super weapon deployment so we don't nuke one another' that's a deal I'd want Rotbart to at least think about.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Perhaps: "Be practical about considering deals with chaos in the face of galactic annihilation, but always remember they always end with a knife to the back."
Chaos is weird in part because it is barely one faction, and playing those factions against each other, themselves, or other greater threats can involve making deals you have every intention of sticking to - it's just best to remember they will betray you, and deals with chaos for personal gain are a terrible idea.
Chaos is weird in part because it is barely one faction, and playing those factions against each other, themselves, or other greater threats can involve making deals you have every intention of sticking to - it's just best to remember they will betray you, and deals with chaos for personal gain are a terrible idea.
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- Location
- parker colorado
[X] pragmatic sacrifices
While many things can be sacrificed in war, the sacrifices must be known. If you must sacrifice your troops it will have purpose. As for the innocent while they may be caught in the fires of war you will never sacrifice their souls. Only the damned should pay that price.
Chaos is stupid, dangerous, but also currently the biggest. In the fires of war against the lesser threats they have their place. If chance finds you fighting on the same battlefield you will not sabotage the battle to end them. If you can spend their soldiers lives through trickery instead of your own you will. But negotiating with them is a step to far. Their masters will seek to pervert any deal and their honor will not prevent betrayal at the end.
While many things can be sacrificed in war, the sacrifices must be known. If you must sacrifice your troops it will have purpose. As for the innocent while they may be caught in the fires of war you will never sacrifice their souls. Only the damned should pay that price.
Chaos is stupid, dangerous, but also currently the biggest. In the fires of war against the lesser threats they have their place. If chance finds you fighting on the same battlefield you will not sabotage the battle to end them. If you can spend their soldiers lives through trickery instead of your own you will. But negotiating with them is a step to far. Their masters will seek to pervert any deal and their honor will not prevent betrayal at the end.
- Location
- Israel
Marshal Cara, commander of the Black Irons.
Age: 580 (as of Turn 43), rejuved to 25.
Martial: 17+15=32 – Cara has led the Black Irons to many victories. While the casualties are as terrible as expected for the unit, no one has ever seen her waste a single soldier.
Intrigue: 12+7=19 – Cara understands who among her officers is the best to manage covert warfare, but rarely takes upon that part herself. She is good, however, when it comes to countering infiltration and corruption.
Administration: 16+11=27 – Cara understands the intricacies of the management, having commanded units of all size.
Learning: 14+8=22 – Cara is rather well educated and experienced, but never cared much otherwise.
Will: 16+26=42 – Cara's will has been proven when she saw the eyes of an Exalted, and remained unbroken even on the front lines of the Grand Incursion and the Silver Skies campaign.
Diplomacy: 11-3=8 – Cara is almost never outright disrespectful or prejudiced except toward actual enemies, but her demeanour and numerous cybernetics don't make a good negotiator.
Combat: 17+33=50 – Cara has laid low many Greater Daemons, even on their home turf.
Avernite Bi-centenarian: (+6C, +2W, +1I, -2D) – when dealing with non-Avernites) Having survived two centuries of life on Avernus Cara have proven herself to be an expert warrior, the bearer of a strong will and very alert to danger.
Survivor of the Grand Incursion: (+2M, +6W, +7C, +30 to all rolls against daemons, +5 Prestige) – While too young for the First Daemonic Incursion, Cara had lived through the other four and was a division commander during the last.
Marshal of the Black Irons: (+5M, +3A, +8W, -3D, +5C, automatically pass any morale rolls, +25 to all rolls against mental domination, +3M in hopeless fights) – Marshal Cara is the Marshal of the Black Irons, a Helguard Corps and Helltrooper Army that specifically recruits the most ruthless soldiers, the suicidal and those with nothing to live for. Since the death of Marshal Holgan she has led this force of deathseekers into several major campaigns.
Avernus Officers Academy Graduate: (+3M, +3A, +2L, +2W, +3C) – Marshal Cara is a graduate from the Avernus Officers Academy and therefore has a thorough education in military matters.
Veteran Caver (+6I, +6L, +8W, +7C, +2 to all stats, very good at dealing with weird stuff) – Marshal Cara spent the better part of a century as a caver, counting her as a veteran within that elite brotherhood.
Heavily Cybernetic (+3C, -2D, less likely to die) – Marshal Cara has replaced a great deal of her body with combat cybernetics to more quickly return to the fight, which while beneficial in battle leads tends to horrify most that she interacts with.
Expert Tactician (+3M) – Marshal Cara is an expert tactician whose skills at battlefield command are utilised to make the deaths of her men count.
Expert Administrator (+3A) – Marshal Cara has kept the Black Irons under her well supplied, despite the rather uncaring attitudes of many of those both within and without the Black irons towards their equipment.
Paragon Combat Trait: Black Trueiron: (Cara receives bonuses that scale up to +300 to fighting in situations she perceives as those embodying the Black Irons' purpose, such as being a spearhead or a bulwark against one. Her chances of finding herself at the critical point of such a situation are vastly increased. Forces under her command share a quarter of that bonus. Double effect of Last Stand on both her and forces under her command) – Cara is an embodiment of a Black Iron, and is a nightmare when fighting a battle appropriate for one. She also has a strange tendency to find herself in the very heat of such battle.
Mineyev's Onyx: (*4 melee damage, pen 24, reduce all damage suffered by 25%) – This Artefact Power Fist was made from the remains of Lieutenant-General Mineyev's Orichalcum Terminator Armour. Forged and enchanted by Avernus' best, it is an excellent weapon at range, while in melee, it is mighty in defence and an absolute terror in attack.
Marshal Cara is the current commander of the Black Irons. Born in the city of Arbor, she was a Helltrooper when the first human Alpha Plus of Avernus awoke in her hometown, forcing the World to destroy it. Despite having lost her family, Cara persevered, and by the time of the Crimson Skies, was a Captain. While her company survived the incursion with distinction, it was later effectively destroyed when fighting the rest of the regiment, which largely fell to the Lord of Blood.
Cara then spent the better part of a century as a Caver, a part about which, as is common, not much concrete is known. During the Gilded Skies, she was badly wounded by the Exalted, and after that, requested a transfer into the Black Irons.
Steadily rising through the ranks, she was a regiment commander both during the Green Skies and the Iron War, where her troops suffered high casualties, but very low corruption rates. By the time of the Grand Incursion, she was commanding the best division of the Black Irons, providing an escort to Mineyev during his final battle. When Mineyev's successor, Marshal Holgan, fell during the Ork Purges, she found herself as the commander of the Black Irons.
The Marshal is cold and bitter, as is common for Black Irons. It is rare for her to display any emotion except toward her enemies. Her skills as both a commander and a fighter make her a worthy successor to the Lieutenant-General, even if she doesn't always consider herself one. However, it seems that in addition to Mineyev's ability to fail in finding death, she also has a modicum of it when it comes to her troops. While as willing to send them into the meatgrinder as her predecessors, her casualties are noticeably lower. While some might consider this unfitting for a Black Iron, both her attitude and that of most of the unit is simple: If it is suicide you are after, put a gun to your temple. If you chose to die in battle, find someone worthy to die to.
During the Silver Skies, she sought such worthy enemies. She thought she might find them in a gauntlet of Favoured attempting to breach through the Black Irons' lines. To her mild dismay, by the time that spearhead fell, she was still alive. While badly wounded, she was, unlike Mineyev tended to be, still in a good enough condition to go and seek medical help by herself. However, she knows the galaxy offers other opportunities, both for herself and for those under her command.
Thanks to @Durin for writing the actual stats, as well as anyone who pointed out issues.
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New questions and answers.
1) How come all psykers haven't been taken over by Chaos during sleep? Your mental defences are down during that time
1) learning ways to keep the, up while sleeping g is basicly the first thing any psykers does
1) How do populations survive on daemon worlds? There's several with stable or semi-stable populations of mostly normal humans on them with cities and everything. Even aside from the more obvious dangers, how do they deal with mutation?
1) active intervention from the governing inteligance
also in 90% of cases daemon worlds are really lightly populated
1) Do devaworlds still have an issue with increased mutations? How does it compare to Avernus?
1) yes, worse on averge then Avernus
2) What kind of warp mutations do Triumvirate populations develop? Are they still more or less random and chaotic, or do they trend towards mutations in theme with their gods?
2) trend towards the themes of their gods
still very random
1) How does the Trust handle major mutations that can't be handled with surgery? Get a biomancer to force the issue? Just kill the baby?
1) they tend to allow them to live but shun them to a notable extent
Though it changes a lot by world
1) Have we detected people who have powerful souls but are not psykers?
1) yes
most Paragons
2) "Avernus, are we the most advanced Ka-users on-planet?"
2) no
blank bears are
1) Does how high someone's base stat was in a particular stat have a effect on how difficult it is to make the jump to being a Paragon in that particular stat?
For instance you have two people who've reached combat 50, one had a base combat of 10 and the other had base combat 20.
Would making the jump to Paragon be harder for the first base combat 10 guy? Or does his lower base "talent level'' only extent to making it harder to get to combat 60 after a combat Paragon is obtained ?
1) lower talent level makes it harder to reach 50
but des not make getting a paragon harder once you get to it
1) Does things that grant added trait gain like Rid's archetype gives to our heroes effect how hard it is to get Paragons and Transcendents?
1) no
1) If a border lion did something like Grimnir, I.e. plonk themself on the border between the materium and a massive warp gate, could they use that border between the real and un-real, chaos and order, matter and not, to their advantage? Probably not to the same degree unless they're also Grimnir, but you get what I mean.
1) they coul use it to their advnatage
but it would be a terrible fight for them
as its turning the fight into a straight brawl
and while theya re good at those (baneblade sized cat) its not their strength (ambush predator)
1) Oh absolutely. Just curious if such a boundary is sufficiently powerful that if someone not them were to stand there would border walking stuff happen due to the narrative effects in circumstances like that? Presumably due to narrative effects doing what they use border walking to accomplish.
1) it depends ont he person and their skills and narrative
2) Would wendigos (which as I understand it are typically characterised as spirits of hunger) count as a form of primal spirit, or would they could as still a manufactured thing, due to the association with concious cannibalism?
2) primal spirit
1) Time constraints aside, is Isha capable of creating new species like the Sylvaneth?
1) no
2) Since the winds of magic are drawn from the warp, does that mean environmental factors have no effect on wind magic like corpse piles for Shyish or infernos for Aqshy?
2) not off Avernus
1) Wait, does that mean the environment matters off Avernus, or that it doesn't matter?
1) it doesnt matter off Avernus, it does on avernus
3): what happens if somebody comes up with multiple similarly feasable--but tactically distinct-- plans, but then picks between them on a dice roll---how does N-steps interact with that?
3) poorly
that is one of the ways around it
4) Does the difficulty of raising one's stats in a vacuum depend entirely on how close you are to your base stat? Or would someone who somehow has a base combat stat of say 52 still have some difficulty with getting it to 60?
4) its a mix of how far from your base stat and how many milestones (multiples of 10) you have reached
2) How well did Hekarti's curses work in the War in Heaven?
2) not great
they helped but were not especily effective
3) how does n-steps ahead interact with cegorochs int trancendent
a) if both traits are one the same level (cegorochs trancendent is a paragon or n-steps is a trancendant)
b) if the levels are switched (cegorochs trancendent is a paragon and n-steps is a trancendant)
3) if on equal leve unpreditable
if one is higher it would probebly trump the other
1) Since the Winds of Magic are fundamental, does that mean all psychic powers are fuelled by them?
1) yes
2) Since I am tentatively redoing khoswe for 10th edition, what kind of armor/battlesuit would be used for the upgrade/replacement of the old Twist-Obsidian armor? Combat role is "Hero commander who makes the enemy decide between fleeing or getting a mutual kill"
2) probebly twist adamantium of some form
3) The Warp is more dangerous than it used to be. Does that apply to the winds of magic as well?
3) yes and no
pure winds, no
but its harder to seperate them out then it used to be
1) Does something like the Raven Guard's Umbramancy have an especially high amount of Ulgu in it compared to the other winds, or is it an amorphous blob?
1) yes
quite a few diciplines semi filter for certain winds
mostly by pulling on narratiuves tied more strongly to those winds
Umbramancy for example is tied t the narrative of the Revolutionary
via Corax
and it is domainte Shadow secondary Fire
and opposed to both Light and Metal
(more the emotional aspects of Fire
it representing passion)
1) What's Dhar in TLN? It's not just a non-Qhaysh mix of the winds or all pre-wind disciplines would be Dhar
1) its basicly mix of multiple winds without a unifiying narrative
which provides existing diciples with a level of order preventing Dhar
as a utterly unsuprinly note
the Imperial Psychic Diciplines had the weakest narrative ever recordered
which is why they sucked (well one of the reasons)
and why the astartes diciplines, which almost always tied into their chapters and/or primarchs narrative
were far more effective
(Tzeentch did well in sabotaging the hell out of the Imperial Diciplines via the Thousand Sons
and te fact that one of the bigger ways he did so was buried so far in advanced Warp Lore that few Eldar even new about it was one of the reasons it never got improved
poeple may notice hidden calls to tzeentch,daemonic numbers ect
baicly no one had the knowledge to notice that its lack of a strong narrative caused it to be a step from Dhar
as that requries Wind Knowledge
which was pretty much forgottern
dhar does have a narrative
The Warp
and the echoes of the War in Heaven
its the default narrative that you have to replace
even chaos replaces it
as its activly counterproductive
to an insane level
well barring some Malalite sorcerors
who look at a narrative that can be summed up as "everyone loses, combatants, bystanders, poeple on the otherside of the gaalxy, everyone"
and think, perfect
those sorerors tend to die fast, by malal tandards
but cause a lot of damage first
one of the reasons that the Psykers were far safer pre WiH
is that the Warp had a different fundermental narratve
one that many diciples activly drew on
as it was one of the stongest narratives out there and pretty benificial
it changing due to the WiH was one of the key turning points in the war)
1) What prevented the Imperial disciplines from developing stronger narratives as they kept being used?
1) the Imperial view of pykers mostly
2) Was Prospero in general entirely set up to bait Magnus/sabotage the Imperial traditions? Were pre-Magnus Prosperine traditions also sabotaged, or was that a Magnus thing?
2) less set up more manipulated
1) what did General Herman do to get his paragon?
1) was not gained in a single feat
more a long series of them
2) Does Avernus think that it knows why replicating necron FTL with the warp is so hard? Or is it just fundamental OO conceptions still affecting things?
2) replicating most high end Ka things with Sa is really hard
and the reverse
2) Ah...I figured that FTL for Ka wasn't that high, so it is fairly high up the tech tree and they typically rely on other things like generation ships (assuming they don't have some warp access a la the Slaugth)?
2) yep
3) Is E=MC^2?
3) ye
conditions apply
1) What grade is Emperor's sword?
1) low divine most likely
3) If Ka based people are using the warp for transit do they have to put in a lot of work to shield the Ka from the warp? Otherwise I could foresee that causing issues.
3) they do
4) On the opposite end of the spectrum "and the reverse" off the top of my head the Ka things which are closest to high level Sa stuff (well...maybe I'm not 100% sure honestly), are the Dawn Blade and C'tan death curses. Is it a fair guess that those both involve the direct manipulation of Ka...though even as I type this the Death Curses are likely significantly more complex than the dawn blade so probably not the best comparison.
4) death curses in particular are advanced mimics of sa
5) If we can ask the...soul? in the blade is it doing a conversion thing to extend people's life spans? My understanding is that its absorbing other's Ka for its wielder, but its able to do it to warp beings as well, or is that just a misunderstanding in this quest?
5) that is just a misunderstanding
1) Would that be explicable by it absorbing the Ka of a demon host. So not the demon itself, just the container.
1) for deamon hosts yes
6) Similarly is it fair to assume that the sort of weapon it is, while universally effective, is more of an anti-Ka weapon specifically? Being able to take the enemy's Ka for your own is a much bigger deal in a Ka fight and IIRC you said that Ka on Ka fights do tend to have a lot of trying to steal each other's Ka?
6)yes
7) IIRC you said that the Rashan's specialisation was artifacts in contrast the necrons being super weapon specced. Could the dawnblade (not a high tier artifact I know), as the last modern active part of the Rashan be used to theoretically find the weapon of one of their ancestors if any survived?
7) no
2) All the weapons of the ancestors destroyed or too much Ka interference?
2) the latter
Also mayb the first
1) Is there any difference between spells and psychic powers? Thousand Sons use both magic and psychic terminology to describe what they do
1) sometimes yes sometimes no
Depends on th classification system being used
In the Trust a spell is a formalised cast
While a psychic power is more a on the spot use of the warp
1) Sort of the difference between 'Transformation of Kadon' which is a formal spell named and used by Kadon and just using psychic power to go wildshape?
1) yes
spells tend to be safer and more effecient
psychic powers tend to be more flexable
which tends to result in all the big casts being spells
with powers being used around the edges
1) How important are the aesthetics of robes for spellcasting purposes?
1) very minor
2) Do cool heroic capes provide tangible benefits for heroes?
2) depends on the hero
but with theright narratives yes
Rule of Cool does provide a minor but measurable benifit
2) What percentage of human Psychic production falls on Avernus?
a) The Trust?
2) less then 1% of minors, around 75% of alphas, 100% of Apha Pluses
a) around 2% of minors, around 80% of alphas
still 100% of Alpha Pluses
2) I meant in the sense of production of psychic resources.
2) ah
trust is around a third of psychic production then
and Avernus around a fifth
1) What's the difference between a wand and a psilencer?
1) how they achive their results
2) Can you miscast miracles?
2) yes
1) What's the mechanism by which that happens? If we're going by the Realms of Sorcery method, you're not so much casting a spell so much as you are asking a god to cast it for you. How does that go wrong? Is it the part where you reach into the Warp to ask for aid?
1) pretty much failing to reach your god right
3) Why did fragments of Asuryan and Khaine end up on craftworlds?
3) because they had the largest shirnes remaining
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hoec
4) Who's Hoec? They're listed in the Eldar Gods category
4) not actualy a god
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gea
5) Who's Gea?
5) the consort of the King
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Aeldari_Pantheon#Cobra-God
6) Who are the Cobra-God, Scorpion-God, and Serpent-God?
6) gods of races that died in the WiH that ended up joining the Eldar Pantheon
1) Are they metaphysically different from Eldar gods, or was this early enough that there were OO around to modify them into being proper Eldar gods?
1) they are metaphysically different
1) According to Avernus, are there things we can do to speed up out psychic evolution?
a) What about things we can do but telling us would undermine their value?
1) not really
a) also no
the thing is
your psychic evolotion was an utter mess before it got involved
and now its no longer evolotion
its inteligent design
and its moving things along as fast as it can
2) Since non-psykers are blind to the warp, would non-psykers be able to make magic items at all if Khaine hadn't blinded Vaul?
2) that may have helped but it could be done ebfore
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...t.44838/page-9948?post=20465567#post-20465567
3) high artafact
4) How much mutation and bad times would happen if a city were subjected to that much of a wind in Sparks?
4) it would be a warzone
where poeple wakinhg up with a new limb, or missing on, would not be uncommon
40k magic is way more toxic then fantasy magic
and me an Boney disagree on how toxic fantasy magic is as well
5) What does normal psychic evolution look like and how is human psychic evolution an utter mess?
5) nomral looks like slowly increasing numbers of psykers
who are very rarely more then three steps from the baseline
which raises over time
basicly you should ot be able to have Alphas and Thetas at the same tie
let alone Alphas and Rho
1) Why is human psychic evolution a mess?
1) it started when the symbol of human psychic potentional, created through the willing sacrifice of every human psyker
got blended with a CTan
then hummanities first offworld colony, that basicly every human is decended rom
was built right over where that Ctan was sleeping
then there was some major messing with psy genetics in the late Dark Age
which mostly went horribly
but enough got mixed intot he general population to cause some long term stuff
then there was The Fall
which messed with all the species without a solid level of psychic development
now there is Avernus (at least for your subset of hummanity)
1) Does Big E have any idea what's up with Aria
a) Blanks in general?
1) no more then anyone else
1a) he knows a lot about ka now
he works with Necrons reserchers
its to be expcted
1) Did every single shaman sacrifice themselves to create the Emperor, or was it only the majority of them with the remainder slowly getting picked off by various Warp hazards until only the Emperor remained?
1) everyone
2) So a 'normal' species would have something like 'baseline is Iota, highest psykers are Delta' and stuff like 'random exploding psykers' just flat out doesn't come up as an issue (because everyone is psychic)?
2) randominly exploding psykers would still be an issue with the current warp
but in the way that someone going in a killing spree with a knife is
rather then in the way a major terrosits attack/nuke is
3) In terms of 'messing up psychic development' was Slaneesh more impactful or was Tjapa more impactful? (For Humans)
3) hard to say
things have not settled after Tjapa enough
1) I dont remeber
2) Is it safe to put runes on so much of our non-psykers' equipment?
2) yes
runes dont leak
well properly made ones anyway
and you have enough quality control to ensure that the ones your soliders get are properly made
1) learning ways to keep the, up while sleeping g is basicly the first thing any psykers does
1) How do populations survive on daemon worlds? There's several with stable or semi-stable populations of mostly normal humans on them with cities and everything. Even aside from the more obvious dangers, how do they deal with mutation?
1) active intervention from the governing inteligance
also in 90% of cases daemon worlds are really lightly populated
1) Do devaworlds still have an issue with increased mutations? How does it compare to Avernus?
1) yes, worse on averge then Avernus
2) What kind of warp mutations do Triumvirate populations develop? Are they still more or less random and chaotic, or do they trend towards mutations in theme with their gods?
2) trend towards the themes of their gods
still very random
1) How does the Trust handle major mutations that can't be handled with surgery? Get a biomancer to force the issue? Just kill the baby?
1) they tend to allow them to live but shun them to a notable extent
Though it changes a lot by world
1) Have we detected people who have powerful souls but are not psykers?
1) yes
most Paragons
2) "Avernus, are we the most advanced Ka-users on-planet?"
2) no
blank bears are
1) Does how high someone's base stat was in a particular stat have a effect on how difficult it is to make the jump to being a Paragon in that particular stat?
For instance you have two people who've reached combat 50, one had a base combat of 10 and the other had base combat 20.
Would making the jump to Paragon be harder for the first base combat 10 guy? Or does his lower base "talent level'' only extent to making it harder to get to combat 60 after a combat Paragon is obtained ?
1) lower talent level makes it harder to reach 50
but des not make getting a paragon harder once you get to it
1) Does things that grant added trait gain like Rid's archetype gives to our heroes effect how hard it is to get Paragons and Transcendents?
1) no
1) If a border lion did something like Grimnir, I.e. plonk themself on the border between the materium and a massive warp gate, could they use that border between the real and un-real, chaos and order, matter and not, to their advantage? Probably not to the same degree unless they're also Grimnir, but you get what I mean.
1) they coul use it to their advnatage
but it would be a terrible fight for them
as its turning the fight into a straight brawl
and while theya re good at those (baneblade sized cat) its not their strength (ambush predator)
1) Oh absolutely. Just curious if such a boundary is sufficiently powerful that if someone not them were to stand there would border walking stuff happen due to the narrative effects in circumstances like that? Presumably due to narrative effects doing what they use border walking to accomplish.
1) it depends ont he person and their skills and narrative
2) Would wendigos (which as I understand it are typically characterised as spirits of hunger) count as a form of primal spirit, or would they could as still a manufactured thing, due to the association with concious cannibalism?
2) primal spirit
1) Time constraints aside, is Isha capable of creating new species like the Sylvaneth?
1) no
2) Since the winds of magic are drawn from the warp, does that mean environmental factors have no effect on wind magic like corpse piles for Shyish or infernos for Aqshy?
2) not off Avernus
1) Wait, does that mean the environment matters off Avernus, or that it doesn't matter?
1) it doesnt matter off Avernus, it does on avernus
3): what happens if somebody comes up with multiple similarly feasable--but tactically distinct-- plans, but then picks between them on a dice roll---how does N-steps interact with that?
3) poorly
that is one of the ways around it
4) Does the difficulty of raising one's stats in a vacuum depend entirely on how close you are to your base stat? Or would someone who somehow has a base combat stat of say 52 still have some difficulty with getting it to 60?
4) its a mix of how far from your base stat and how many milestones (multiples of 10) you have reached
2) How well did Hekarti's curses work in the War in Heaven?
2) not great
they helped but were not especily effective
3) how does n-steps ahead interact with cegorochs int trancendent
a) if both traits are one the same level (cegorochs trancendent is a paragon or n-steps is a trancendant)
b) if the levels are switched (cegorochs trancendent is a paragon and n-steps is a trancendant)
3) if on equal leve unpreditable
if one is higher it would probebly trump the other
1) Since the Winds of Magic are fundamental, does that mean all psychic powers are fuelled by them?
1) yes
2) Since I am tentatively redoing khoswe for 10th edition, what kind of armor/battlesuit would be used for the upgrade/replacement of the old Twist-Obsidian armor? Combat role is "Hero commander who makes the enemy decide between fleeing or getting a mutual kill"
2) probebly twist adamantium of some form
3) The Warp is more dangerous than it used to be. Does that apply to the winds of magic as well?
3) yes and no
pure winds, no
but its harder to seperate them out then it used to be
1) Does something like the Raven Guard's Umbramancy have an especially high amount of Ulgu in it compared to the other winds, or is it an amorphous blob?
1) yes
quite a few diciplines semi filter for certain winds
mostly by pulling on narratiuves tied more strongly to those winds
Umbramancy for example is tied t the narrative of the Revolutionary
via Corax
and it is domainte Shadow secondary Fire
and opposed to both Light and Metal
(more the emotional aspects of Fire
it representing passion)
1) What's Dhar in TLN? It's not just a non-Qhaysh mix of the winds or all pre-wind disciplines would be Dhar
1) its basicly mix of multiple winds without a unifiying narrative
which provides existing diciples with a level of order preventing Dhar
as a utterly unsuprinly note
the Imperial Psychic Diciplines had the weakest narrative ever recordered
which is why they sucked (well one of the reasons)
and why the astartes diciplines, which almost always tied into their chapters and/or primarchs narrative
were far more effective
(Tzeentch did well in sabotaging the hell out of the Imperial Diciplines via the Thousand Sons
and te fact that one of the bigger ways he did so was buried so far in advanced Warp Lore that few Eldar even new about it was one of the reasons it never got improved
poeple may notice hidden calls to tzeentch,daemonic numbers ect
baicly no one had the knowledge to notice that its lack of a strong narrative caused it to be a step from Dhar
as that requries Wind Knowledge
which was pretty much forgottern
dhar does have a narrative
The Warp
and the echoes of the War in Heaven
its the default narrative that you have to replace
even chaos replaces it
as its activly counterproductive
to an insane level
well barring some Malalite sorcerors
who look at a narrative that can be summed up as "everyone loses, combatants, bystanders, poeple on the otherside of the gaalxy, everyone"
and think, perfect
those sorerors tend to die fast, by malal tandards
but cause a lot of damage first
one of the reasons that the Psykers were far safer pre WiH
is that the Warp had a different fundermental narratve
one that many diciples activly drew on
as it was one of the stongest narratives out there and pretty benificial
it changing due to the WiH was one of the key turning points in the war)
1) What prevented the Imperial disciplines from developing stronger narratives as they kept being used?
1) the Imperial view of pykers mostly
2) Was Prospero in general entirely set up to bait Magnus/sabotage the Imperial traditions? Were pre-Magnus Prosperine traditions also sabotaged, or was that a Magnus thing?
2) less set up more manipulated
1) what did General Herman do to get his paragon?
1) was not gained in a single feat
more a long series of them
2) Does Avernus think that it knows why replicating necron FTL with the warp is so hard? Or is it just fundamental OO conceptions still affecting things?
2) replicating most high end Ka things with Sa is really hard
and the reverse
2) Ah...I figured that FTL for Ka wasn't that high, so it is fairly high up the tech tree and they typically rely on other things like generation ships (assuming they don't have some warp access a la the Slaugth)?
2) yep
3) Is E=MC^2?
3) ye
conditions apply
1) What grade is Emperor's sword?
1) low divine most likely
3) If Ka based people are using the warp for transit do they have to put in a lot of work to shield the Ka from the warp? Otherwise I could foresee that causing issues.
3) they do
4) On the opposite end of the spectrum "and the reverse" off the top of my head the Ka things which are closest to high level Sa stuff (well...maybe I'm not 100% sure honestly), are the Dawn Blade and C'tan death curses. Is it a fair guess that those both involve the direct manipulation of Ka...though even as I type this the Death Curses are likely significantly more complex than the dawn blade so probably not the best comparison.
4) death curses in particular are advanced mimics of sa
5) If we can ask the...soul? in the blade is it doing a conversion thing to extend people's life spans? My understanding is that its absorbing other's Ka for its wielder, but its able to do it to warp beings as well, or is that just a misunderstanding in this quest?
5) that is just a misunderstanding
1) Would that be explicable by it absorbing the Ka of a demon host. So not the demon itself, just the container.
1) for deamon hosts yes
6) Similarly is it fair to assume that the sort of weapon it is, while universally effective, is more of an anti-Ka weapon specifically? Being able to take the enemy's Ka for your own is a much bigger deal in a Ka fight and IIRC you said that Ka on Ka fights do tend to have a lot of trying to steal each other's Ka?
6)yes
7) IIRC you said that the Rashan's specialisation was artifacts in contrast the necrons being super weapon specced. Could the dawnblade (not a high tier artifact I know), as the last modern active part of the Rashan be used to theoretically find the weapon of one of their ancestors if any survived?
7) no
2) All the weapons of the ancestors destroyed or too much Ka interference?
2) the latter
Also mayb the first
1) Is there any difference between spells and psychic powers? Thousand Sons use both magic and psychic terminology to describe what they do
1) sometimes yes sometimes no
Depends on th classification system being used
In the Trust a spell is a formalised cast
While a psychic power is more a on the spot use of the warp
1) Sort of the difference between 'Transformation of Kadon' which is a formal spell named and used by Kadon and just using psychic power to go wildshape?
1) yes
spells tend to be safer and more effecient
psychic powers tend to be more flexable
which tends to result in all the big casts being spells
with powers being used around the edges
1) How important are the aesthetics of robes for spellcasting purposes?
1) very minor
2) Do cool heroic capes provide tangible benefits for heroes?
2) depends on the hero
but with theright narratives yes
Rule of Cool does provide a minor but measurable benifit
2) What percentage of human Psychic production falls on Avernus?
a) The Trust?
2) less then 1% of minors, around 75% of alphas, 100% of Apha Pluses
a) around 2% of minors, around 80% of alphas
still 100% of Alpha Pluses
2) I meant in the sense of production of psychic resources.
2) ah
trust is around a third of psychic production then
and Avernus around a fifth
1) What's the difference between a wand and a psilencer?
1) how they achive their results
2) Can you miscast miracles?
2) yes
1) What's the mechanism by which that happens? If we're going by the Realms of Sorcery method, you're not so much casting a spell so much as you are asking a god to cast it for you. How does that go wrong? Is it the part where you reach into the Warp to ask for aid?
1) pretty much failing to reach your god right
3) Why did fragments of Asuryan and Khaine end up on craftworlds?
3) because they had the largest shirnes remaining
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hoec
4) Who's Hoec? They're listed in the Eldar Gods category
4) not actualy a god
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gea
5) Who's Gea?
5) the consort of the King
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Aeldari_Pantheon#Cobra-God
6) Who are the Cobra-God, Scorpion-God, and Serpent-God?
6) gods of races that died in the WiH that ended up joining the Eldar Pantheon
1) Are they metaphysically different from Eldar gods, or was this early enough that there were OO around to modify them into being proper Eldar gods?
1) they are metaphysically different
1) According to Avernus, are there things we can do to speed up out psychic evolution?
a) What about things we can do but telling us would undermine their value?
1) not really
a) also no
the thing is
your psychic evolotion was an utter mess before it got involved
and now its no longer evolotion
its inteligent design
and its moving things along as fast as it can
2) Since non-psykers are blind to the warp, would non-psykers be able to make magic items at all if Khaine hadn't blinded Vaul?
2) that may have helped but it could be done ebfore
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...t.44838/page-9948?post=20465567#post-20465567
3) What level of artefact is the Staff of Volans as depicted in Divided Loyalties?
3) high artafact
4) How much mutation and bad times would happen if a city were subjected to that much of a wind in Sparks?
4) it would be a warzone
where poeple wakinhg up with a new limb, or missing on, would not be uncommon
40k magic is way more toxic then fantasy magic
and me an Boney disagree on how toxic fantasy magic is as well
5) What does normal psychic evolution look like and how is human psychic evolution an utter mess?
5) nomral looks like slowly increasing numbers of psykers
who are very rarely more then three steps from the baseline
which raises over time
basicly you should ot be able to have Alphas and Thetas at the same tie
let alone Alphas and Rho
1) Why is human psychic evolution a mess?
1) it started when the symbol of human psychic potentional, created through the willing sacrifice of every human psyker
got blended with a CTan
then hummanities first offworld colony, that basicly every human is decended rom
was built right over where that Ctan was sleeping
then there was some major messing with psy genetics in the late Dark Age
which mostly went horribly
but enough got mixed intot he general population to cause some long term stuff
then there was The Fall
which messed with all the species without a solid level of psychic development
now there is Avernus (at least for your subset of hummanity)
1) Does Big E have any idea what's up with Aria
a) Blanks in general?
1) no more then anyone else
1a) he knows a lot about ka now
he works with Necrons reserchers
its to be expcted
1) Did every single shaman sacrifice themselves to create the Emperor, or was it only the majority of them with the remainder slowly getting picked off by various Warp hazards until only the Emperor remained?
1) everyone
2) So a 'normal' species would have something like 'baseline is Iota, highest psykers are Delta' and stuff like 'random exploding psykers' just flat out doesn't come up as an issue (because everyone is psychic)?
2) randominly exploding psykers would still be an issue with the current warp
but in the way that someone going in a killing spree with a knife is
rather then in the way a major terrosits attack/nuke is
3) In terms of 'messing up psychic development' was Slaneesh more impactful or was Tjapa more impactful? (For Humans)
3) hard to say
things have not settled after Tjapa enough
1) Then how come that the forces are stated to have been at the ready for half a dozen years?
1) I dont remeber
2) Is it safe to put runes on so much of our non-psykers' equipment?
2) yes
runes dont leak
well properly made ones anyway
and you have enough quality control to ensure that the ones your soliders get are properly made
- Location
- Earth
What ended up happening here was Imperial psykers being unable to develop a unified community, so they created thousands and thousands of competing micronarratives.
The Trust's tradition now runs on the narrative of enlightenment and study turning blind fear and superstition into knowledge and understanding (and a respectful fear more grounded in reality).
- Location
- England
Have I missed the new thread?
- Location
- Israel
Nah, I believe it's supposed to go up on the 10th anniversary.