I still think Shireen is important to wed to whoever's gonna continue the main line, so that the rumors of bastardry stop at the current generation of royals. Tommen's young enough to offer a different betrothal, "and then either the donkey, the shah, or myself will be no more", and if Joff dies early, switch the Shireen marriage to him.
Myrcella is the most age-appropriate person to wed away, or at least make a sure betrothal right now. She is, potentially, the most useful, but also the most dangerous. How so? Well, with the dear uncles in open rebellion against the realm, it may be argued that she will become queen should both of her brothers die. That means that, unless she marries under a matrilineal marriage dynasty agreement (for example, the show agreement between Vyserys II and Corlys Velaryon, where Rhaenyra's children would stay Velaryon, until they'd assume the Iron Throne and "switch" to Targaryen), that means that her kids will be of the husband's dynasty and we lose the throne. So what are her options (from the top of my head)?
1) Trystane Martell of Dorne, the canon option. Not a good pick, as both of the Dornish brothers have deep-seated vendettae against Tywin, and other Lannisters by association, and hate our guys' guts. Will likely use the marriage for a chance of their own claim on throne.
2) The Tyrell boys. Currently allied with Renly, so probably not viable in the moment. Considering the Tyrells' likely connection with Baelish's plots against the crown in canon, a marriage with those will be a ticking time bomb of them removing Myrcella's brothers, who block her way to the crown.
3) Other Reach Houses. Don't remember exactly what's the marriable situation for Myrcella's age group over there, but the Reach in particular is notorious for how most of its houses share the same lineage from the royal Gardner dynasty, and consider the Tyrells (once stewards to the Gardners) to be the "first amongst equals", rather than true overlords. Moreso, they have the lands, armies, and in some cases fleets to prove it. A marriageable Redwyne or Hightower may help to divide the Reach and downsize Renly's support base. Hightowers especially are a good bet, if we're banking on friendship with the Church to achieve our goals.
4) Robert Arryn. The household is currently under Baelish's influence, so this will work only if Baelish is convinced this will be useful to his own rise to power (perhaps, too, through murders to regency over the young couple).
5) Other Vale Houses. The Royces, the Waynwoods, and the like. Not as strong as Reach houses, but good if one wishes to counterbalance Baelish's influence over the Arryns.
6) Other Dorne Houses. While the Martells have a specific hate for the Lannisters, some of their biggest vassals, such as the Yronwoods and the Daynes have different troubles. A Yronwood host could be a good check for Renly/Stannis powerbases in the Stormlands.
7) Edmure Tully. Yes, he is older, but if you REALLY want to tie the Tullies closer, that's your bet. Also, unlikely to scheme to kill off the rest of our royal brats.
8) Frey boys, if you want a check against the Tullies and the North.
9) Robb Stark. I doubt either Cersei or Ned would agree to this, but they seemed to like each other, and having a "hostage" of ours would please the Starks, if you really want to mend relations with them.
10) Theon Greyjoy. If you're ready to gamble on Balon being more amicable than he was in canon.
11) Essossi upper class spouses. You marry them for the money, and, sometimes, a fleet, or an army is also possible. Targs/Blackfyres practiced this, why not us?
12) Ramsay Bolton. If you want a check against the Starks,- but let's not do this.
I still think Shireen is important to wed to whoever's gonna continue the main line, so that the rumors of bastardry stop at the current generation of royals.
... Hm. That's actually a decent point. That being said, she is also afflicted with Greyscale and the daughter of a now-attainted Pretender, so I'm not sure she's a great pick for Joff, especially since we just avoided the Sansa drama. Tommen's young enough that we can keep him in reserve should we want to tie the remaining branch of House Baratheon back into our line. Meanwhile, the Joffrey-Margaery betrothal just makes too much sense not to attempt, especially since his betrothal to Sansa has been annulled much earlier than in canon given that we didn't piss off the High Septon by executing Stark on his doorsteps. It's worth a shot to see if we can cut off Renly at the knees, and keep it as an option open throughout the war. Meanwhile, it'll depend on how the talk with Baelish goes, but Marcella and Sweetrobin seem like a good way to dynastically as well as underhandedly tie the Vale to our cause.
-[] Letter: Write to Highgarden, offering the newly freed up hand of King Joffrey I Baratheon to Margaery Tyrell in betrothal, and clemency for Loras Tyrell given his participation in the Usurper Renly's rebellion.
-[] Letter: Issue a mass letter to all the notable lords of the land, and give the scribes an extra silver stag for their poor fingers. Its contents will go as thus:
--Declare that Robert Baratheon is dead and his son Joffrey Baratheon has been crowned King of Westeros;
---That his scurrilous uncles have conspired with the Northerner Eddard Stark to declare Robert's children illegitimate through nonsensical, slanderous lies.
---That Stannis Baratheon has abandoned the Faith of the Seven and now cavorts with Red Priests, witches, and smugglers in his cynical grab for the Iron Throne.
---That Renly Baratheon is a lesser shade of his brother Robert and makes wild promises to bolster his lacking credentials and mask his homosexual tendencies.
---That a baker's dozen of would-be Targaryen claimants have arisen in the weakness caused by the betrayal of King Robert's will, each more ridiculous than the last.
---That the Rightful King Joffrey I calls upon all his leal vassals to raise their banners in rejection of the Apostate Pretenders and Mummer's Dragons in his power as Protector of the Realm and Defender of the Faith.
What do you all think of this as a general response to the revolt of the Baratheon Brothers?
I think I like this, though I'm not sure about Renly. How homophobic is the Faith/Westeros really? Pretty sure the show exaggerated it. Might be better to focus on the absurdity of a younger brother doing a blatant power grab with virtually no justification.
I especially like blaming the Targ pretenders popping up all at once on the uncles, heap that blame on them.
I think I like this, though I'm not sure about Renly. How homophobic is the Faith/Westeros really? Pretty sure the show exaggerated it. Might be better to focus on the absurdity of a younger brother doing a blatant power grab with virtually no justification.
I'm basing Westeros's assumed homophobia on what's historically present with the Middle Ages and what was displayed in the books. Basically, think of accusing someone of homosexuality as being roughly equivalent of them being a pedophile.
In this situation, i think, Renly would justify himself by using both our own and Stannis justifications combined. Joffrey and his siblings a bastards, Stannis is a heretic and sept-burner, thus the crown falls to Renly. He never bothered in canon, but if he lived long enough, he probably would.
In this situation, i think, Renly would justify himself by using both our own and Stannis justifications combined. Joffrey and his siblings a bastards, Stannis is a heretic and sept-burner, thus the crown falls to Renly. He never bothered in canon, but if he lived long enough, he probably would.
That's also roughly what I was thinking. We need some dirt on the guy, something to make hay out of that equals the baggage Stannis and Joffrey have to deal with, and the only thing that really fits the bill is that he's gay.
That's also roughly what I was thinking. We need some dirt on the guy, something to make hay out of that equals the baggage Stannis and Joffrey have to deal with, and the only thing that really fits the bill is that he's gay.
Pawn of the Tyrells? If we are willing to dispense of their support we can make a lot of hay out of them being up-jumped stewards who are now trying to steal a throne for themselves using a spineless puppet pretender. The best way to win against Renly's shinny knightly facade is to not even play against him. Heck if we could coach Joffrey into it he could even say something about how he pities his misguided, foolish uncle Renly whose hands would be stained with the blood of both his brother and nephew if the sinister forces behind him were to have their way.
Pawn of the Tyrells? If we are willing to dispense of their support we can make a lot of hay out of them being up-jumped stewards who are now trying to steal a throne for themselves using a spineless puppet pretender. The best way to win against Renly's shinny knightly facade is to not even play against him. Heck if we could coach Joffrey into it he could even say something about how he pities his misguided, foolish uncle Renly whose hands would be stained with the blood of both his brother and nephew if the sinister forces behind him were to have their way.
Eeehhh that doesn't really have the same punch esp considering an easy bar-room level retort is "better roses than lions," when you consider the sack of KL by the Lannisters and the lack thereof from Tyrells (that its because Mace was doing the world's most over the top seige and didn't get a chance for mass looting doesn't really matter to smallfolk sulking in the cups)
Also unless the Tullys and Arryns somehow really pull through I don't think we can afford bridge burning with the Tyrells.
Eeehhh that doesn't really have the same punch esp considering an easy bar-room level retort is "better roses than lions," when you consider the sack of KL by the Lannisters and the lack thereof from Tyrells (that its because Mace was doing the world's most over the top seige and didn't get a chance for mass looting doesn't really matter to smallfolk sulking in the cups)
Also unless the Tullys and Arryns somehow really pull through I don't think we can afford bridge burning with the Tyrells.
Does anyone not in KL actually care about KL though? Westeros is a very parochial place and calling someone 'insufficiently noble' is likely to get far more of a response from the nobility than bemoaning any number of dead peasants , there is after all a reason why people only started really objecting to Aerys' entertainments when he started burning nobles
Fair point about the bridge burning though.
The other thing that occurs to me though is don't accuse Renly of anything, just assassinate him. How hard would it be to pay off his cook? It's not like he has much in the way of a common touch. It is a blunt instrument, but we are kind of in a hole.
Pawn of the Tyrells? If we are willing to dispense of their support we can make a lot of hay out of them being up-jumped stewards who are now trying to steal a throne for themselves using a spineless puppet pretender. The best way to win against Renly's shinny knightly facade is to not even play against him. Heck if we could coach Joffrey into it he could even say something about how he pities his misguided, foolish uncle Renly whose hands would be stained with the blood of both his brother and nephew if the sinister forces behind him were to have their way.
That all feels very convoluted and far-fetched, to put it frankly. Political propaganda is simple and punchy, hence why calling someone gay is such a common form of slander. That's not even bringing up whether we want to start a grudge with the Tyrells, or the fact that we've received no indication they've declared for Renly yet - all Varys reported is that he's gathering his vassals in the Stormlands.
That being said, the Tyrells are certainly not our friends, and a betrothal in the Reach could work well to check their power. The two best candidates for that would be the Hightowers and the Rowans, who are the next most powerful houses (besides the Florents, but Stannis makes that awkward). The Hightowers have Ser Humfrey still unmarried as a possible match for Myrcella, while the only thing we know about Mathis Rowan's children is that his daughter sleeps around. Still, I imagine it would be easy to confirm with Azel whether they have an available match.
[X] Plan: The Tully Gambit
-[X] [Eddard] Send him to the Wall by land. You trust that he will honor the agreement and not try to renege on it once he is in the North.
-[X] [Sansa] Send her home as agreed with Eddard Stark.
--[X] [Escort] Kingsguard Jaime Lannister will lead a detachment of knights to escort the Starks through the Riverlands, but will also be tasked with conducting personal negotiations with the Tullys to help win them over. "Your job is to keep the Wolves out of the war and bring the Trouts in, brother."
-[X] [Coronation] Make a lavish festival for both commoners and nobles alike. You can refill the larders until winter.
-[X] Speak with the Crownlander nobles at court. Ensure their loyalty to Joffrey and aid against the claimants.
-[X] Speak with Baelish. Try to see how trustworthy he is and see if he can be aligned with your goals.
-[X] Adjust the Small Council (Free Action)
--[X] Hand of the King: Edmure Tully
--[X] Master of Laws: 'Bronze' Yohn Royce
--[X] Master of Ships: Renfield Rykker
-[X] Letter: Write to Riverrun, offering to appoint Edmure as Hand of the King implicitly in exchange for raising their banners for Joffrey and condemning the Apostate Pretenders. Offer what concessions we can to sweeten the pot, such as possible betrothals, further court appointments in King's Landing, etc.
-[X] Letter: Write to Braavos, assuring the Iron Bank that the Iron Throne's interest payments will be met, bringing up House Lannister's reputation for 'paying debts' in all meanings of the term. Request an envoy to discuss further loans and concerns the Braavosi may have.
-[X] Letter: Write to the Eyrie, using the status of our 'beloved' brother Tyrion as an excuse to sound out Lysa Arryn's current intent and loyalties. If we can prevent the Imp from being thrown out the Eagle Door, so much the better.
-[X] Letter: Write to Casterly Rock, informing Lord Paramount Tywin Lannister of the events in King's Landing, including the revelation of Tyrion's captivity in the Vale. Inform him we're working to secure the Imp's release, but to avoid further retaliation against the Tullys due to needing their allegiance against the Baratheon pretenders.
-[X] Letter: Write to Highgarden, offering the newly freed up hand of King Joffrey I Baratheon to Margaery Tyrell in betrothal and clemency for Loras Tyrell given his participation in the Usurper Renly's rebellion, should they strike their banners for the true king.
-[X] Letter: Issue a mass letter to all the notable lords of the land, and give the scribes an extra silver stag for their poor fingers. Its contents will go as thus:
--Declare that Robert Baratheon is dead and his son Joffrey Baratheon has been crowned King of Westeros;
---That his scurrilous uncles have conspired with the Northerner Eddard Stark to declare Robert's children illegitimate through nonsensical, slanderous lies.
---That Stannis Baratheon has abandoned the Faith of the Seven and now cavorts with Red Priests, witches, and smugglers in his cynical grab for the Iron Throne.
---That Renly Baratheon is a lesser shade of his brother Robert and makes wild promises to bolster his lacking credentials and mask his homosexual tendencies.
---That a baker's dozen of would-be Targaryen claimants have arisen in the weakness caused by the betrayal of King Robert's will, each more ridiculous than the last.
---That the Rightful King Joffrey I calls upon all his leal vassals to raise their banners in rejection of the Apostate Pretenders and Mummer's Dragons in his power as Protector of the Realm and Defender of the Faith.
Okay, this is the latest iteration of the plan. Regarding the betrothals, I figure we ought to see if Margaery and the Tyrells can be snapped off the table, although I don't think it likely. Meanwhile, we're keeping Myrcella open for now, a possible betrothal with Sweetrobin depending on the exact nature of the deal we cut with Baelish, and Tommen is being reserved for a potential arrangement with Shireen at a negotiated end to the civil war.
I like the idea of trying to assasinate Renly in longer term, unless he drops dead like in canon he actually is the biggest threat. I doubt Cercei could arrange on her own, given her canonical track record with an asasinations. Maybe we could get Varys to do it. He wants a divided and weak realm(presumably) and Renly actually winning is not a part of his plan.
Vote closed. This is going to get interesting fast...
Adhoc vote count started by Azel on Jan 4, 2024 at 8:14 AM, finished with 78 posts and 11 votes.
[X] Plan: The Tully Gambit -[X] [Eddard] Send him to the Wall by land. You trust that he will honor the agreement and not try to renege on it once he is in the North. -[X] [Sansa] Send her home as agreed with Eddard Stark. --[X] [Escort] Kingsguard Jaime Lannister will lead a detachment of knights to escort the Starks through the Riverlands, but will also be tasked with conducting personal negotiations with the Tullys to help win them over. "Your job is to keep the Wolves out of the war and bring the Trouts in, brother." -[X] [Coronation] Make a lavish festival for both commoners and nobles alike. You can refill the larders until winter. -[X] Speak with the Crownlander nobles at court. Ensure their loyalty to Joffrey and aid against the claimants. -[X] Speak with Baelish. Try to see how trustworthy he is and see if he can be aligned with your goals. -[X] Adjust the Small Council (Free Action) --[X] Hand of the King: Edmure Tully --[X] Master of Laws: 'Bronze' Yohn Royce --[X] Master of Ships: Renfield Rykker
-[X] Letter: Write to Riverrun, offering to appoint Edmure as Hand of the King implicitly in exchange for raising their banners for Joffrey and condemning the Apostate Pretenders. Offer what concessions we can to sweeten the pot, such as possible betrothals, further court appointments in King's Landing, etc.
-[X] Letter: Write to Braavos, assuring the Iron Bank that the Iron Throne's interest payments will be met, bringing up House Lannister's reputation for 'paying debts' in all meanings of the term. Request an envoy to discuss further loans and concerns the Braavosi may have.
-[X] Letter: Write to the Eyrie, using the status of our 'beloved' brother Tyrion as an excuse to sound out Lysa Arryn's current intent and loyalties. If we can prevent the Imp from being thrown out the Eagle Door, so much the better.
-[X] Letter: Write to Casterly Rock, informing Lord Paramount Tywin Lannister of the events in King's Landing, including the revelation of Tyrion's captivity in the Vale. Inform him we're working to secure the Imp's release, but to avoid further retaliation against the Tullys due to needing their allegiance against the Baratheon pretenders.
-[X] Letter: Write to Highgarden, offering the newly freed up hand of King Joffrey I Baratheon to Margaery Tyrell in betrothal and clemency for Loras Tyrell given his participation in the Usurper Renly's rebellion, should they strike their banners for the true king.
-[X] Letter: Issue a mass letter to all the notable lords of the land, and give the scribes an extra silver stag for their poor fingers. Its contents will go as thus:
Adhoc vote count started by Azel on Jan 4, 2024 at 8:14 AM, finished with 78 posts and 11 votes.
[X] Plan: The Tully Gambit -[X] [Eddard] Send him to the Wall by land. You trust that he will honor the agreement and not try to renege on it once he is in the North. -[X] [Sansa] Send her home as agreed with Eddard Stark. --[X] [Escort] Kingsguard Jaime Lannister will lead a detachment of knights to escort the Starks through the Riverlands, but will also be tasked with conducting personal negotiations with the Tullys to help win them over. "Your job is to keep the Wolves out of the war and bring the Trouts in, brother." -[X] [Coronation] Make a lavish festival for both commoners and nobles alike. You can refill the larders until winter. -[X] Speak with the Crownlander nobles at court. Ensure their loyalty to Joffrey and aid against the claimants. -[X] Speak with Baelish. Try to see how trustworthy he is and see if he can be aligned with your goals. -[X] Adjust the Small Council (Free Action) --[X] Hand of the King: Edmure Tully --[X] Master of Laws: 'Bronze' Yohn Royce --[X] Master of Ships: Renfield Rykker
-[X] Letter: Write to Riverrun, offering to appoint Edmure as Hand of the King implicitly in exchange for raising their banners for Joffrey and condemning the Apostate Pretenders. Offer what concessions we can to sweeten the pot, such as possible betrothals, further court appointments in King's Landing, etc.
-[X] Letter: Write to Braavos, assuring the Iron Bank that the Iron Throne's interest payments will be met, bringing up House Lannister's reputation for 'paying debts' in all meanings of the term. Request an envoy to discuss further loans and concerns the Braavosi may have.
-[X] Letter: Write to the Eyrie, using the status of our 'beloved' brother Tyrion as an excuse to sound out Lysa Arryn's current intent and loyalties. If we can prevent the Imp from being thrown out the Eagle Door, so much the better.
-[X] Letter: Write to Casterly Rock, informing Lord Paramount Tywin Lannister of the events in King's Landing, including the revelation of Tyrion's captivity in the Vale. Inform him we're working to secure the Imp's release, but to avoid further retaliation against the Tullys due to needing their allegiance against the Baratheon pretenders.
-[X] Letter: Write to Highgarden, offering the newly freed up hand of King Joffrey I Baratheon to Margaery Tyrell in betrothal and clemency for Loras Tyrell given his participation in the Usurper Renly's rebellion, should they strike their banners for the true king.
-[X] Letter: Issue a mass letter to all the notable lords of the land, and give the scribes an extra silver stag for their poor fingers. Its contents will go as thus:
The hallway was narrow and reeked of mildew. Nobody ever came there. Dust covered every surface. Now and then a mote would get shaken lose by the candles heat and be sucked into the flame, throwing little sparks as it was consumed. Her dress was already soiled, but yet Cersei hurried on as fast as she could. Her legs felt leaden. She did not know how long she had been there, how many hours her chase had gone, but the white woman was right there. All bright and perfect. Not a single smudge of dirt or dust on her whit gown. She kept walking ahead of Cersei with light steps, illuminated by the candle as if it was the summer sun. Just ahead. Just a short sprint away.
Except she could not sprint. Every time she tried, her legs would only grow heavier. Her lungs were greedily sucking in the musky air, and yet burned with the feeling of suffocating. And once she tried, once she gasped, the white woman would notice. She would turn, red eyes shining in the candle light, and take a sudden turn. Yet when Cersei would reach the place she had just been, there would be naught but brick and stone where the other woman walked. Just from the corner of her eye, she would see her again, and then the chase resumed. On and on. Hour after hour. Until not an ounce of strength was left in Cersei, and she would just sit down on the grimy floor.
She sat on the Iron Throne, the iron searing to the touch. The heat was unbearable. Every pillar holding the roof was covered in green flames licking up from the braziers. The light was blinding. But there was something beyond the blinding light. The stench was nauseating. Between discarded bone and offal, a pool of blood had formed and within sat the white woman. She paid Cersei no mind though. In her hands, a dragon egg, shell cracked open and smeared with blood. She as devouring it. Bit by bit. Bone by bone. The noises of tearing and snapping clear to heat above the infernos roar.
Cersei awoke drenched in cold sweat, her hands digging into her bedding with desperate strength. She sighed once, twice, another time, a shred of tension leaving her body every time she did. A dozen. Her hands unclenched and she pushed herself upright. Hunched over, legs drawn to herself, she felt ready to cry, but even that seemed to exhausting to contemplate. One month. One month with nary more than an hour of sleep at once. Always the same dream. Always the same nameless terror seeping into her heart until it felt ready to tear.
Nothing seemed to be able to stop the dreams. Maybe Jaime could have, but he wasn't there. Pycelle had given her a vial of poppy milk, though she had yet to try it. After all the men he had poisoned for her, it was rather difficult to trust his philters. Baelish blamed it on the comet above them bathing the night in red light, saying that he too had the odd nightmare in the past weeks. Maybe. Most of the smallfolk called the thing King Joffreys Comet because it had appeared the night before his coronation and then shone on the festivities. By now, Cesei was inclined to call it Harbinger like the more superstitious folk as that had also been the first night she had been haunted by that bloody bitch in her white gown.
By now, she at least had a ritual to deal with it. Get up. Freshen up. Spend some time at her work desk while the Arbor Gold worked it's magic. She just wished it worked faster. Or more reliably. Sometimes a glass got her right back to some semblance of sleep. Sometimes the bottle was nearing it's end and the sun was creeping above the horizon already. Just some rest. That was all she craved. To not be pestered any more by dreams taunting her with things just out of sight.
How to deal with the night terrors?
[] [Nightmares] The Arbor Gold is working. Somewhat. Better not risk the other options.
[] [Nightmares] Pycelle could just as well slip something into the wine. Take his milk of the poppy.
[] [Nightmares] It's said that a glass of Shade of the Evening helps to sort out this kind of dream.
[] [Nightmares] Cuddle with Jaime. In his arms, the worries will disappear. You sent him away.
[] [Nightmares] Cousin Lancel is not Jaime, but if you down a glass of wine and squint...
Unfortunately even work was little respite the past few nights. The coronation festivities had wrapped up quite successfully. The smallfolk loved their new king and Joffrey had been in rather high spirits ever since. There had been a few minor incidents as her boy was figuring out how to behave in his new role, though things worked out. Oddly enough it was the Hound who had been a great aid there. Something was going on between the king and the Lord Commander and the servants whispered about rather heated words behind closed doors, and yet somehow they could be rarely seen separated.
Maybe she would have more time to look into this at another point. She had been to busy with the Crownlander houses to pay that much attention. Unsurprisingly, the houses Bar Emmon, Massey, Celtigar and Velaryon had not bee showing themselves, all but confirming rumors that they had raised banners for the usurper Stannis. Lord Staunton and both branches of the Brunes had been making excuses too, though they seemed not aligned with Stannis either. Varys suspected that they were instead waiting for one of the Targaryen pretenders. There was a man claiming to be Caern Targaryen, King Scabs younger brother that had been playing sellsword in Essos and been presumed dead since around the time of the Summerhall Tragedy, and Varys presumed those houses were giving credence to his claims.
At least the other houses of the Crownlands were pleased with the effort made to court them. Especially the Rykkers were pleasantly surprised to be offered a seat on the Small Council and affirmed that they were willing to bury the grudges left from the rebellion and her fathers against their house. Yohn Royce unfortunately was a different matter. While honored by the offer, he said that he had his fill of courtly politics and had meant to return to Runestone. It sounded borderline treasonous, though Baelish assured her in private that Bronze Yohn likely did not want to be caught in between the Arryns and the Baratheon-Lannisters in all of this. Reluctantly, Cersei had agreed to let him leave.
Some of the letters she had received had also been, if not perfect for her plans, at least encouraging. Olenna Tyrell had replied on behalf of her son, who was apparently travelling and not in High Garden, and expressed interest in the proposed marriage. She would be coming to Kings Landing soon to speak about the details in person. On the topic of Loras Tyrell, she said nothing though. Likewise, the Iron Bank seemed pleased by her letter and was willing to send an envoy to discuss payments. Even Baelish seemed oddly pleased by this, though that exchange too was sparse on concrete plans that Cersei could rely on.
But then there were the Tullys. And her father. And that whole mess in the Riverlands. And Lysa Arryn. The first cup of wine was already gone and Cersei expected the second to not last all that long either. She had been putting off responses to some of these letters for the last few days, hoping that a solution would present itself once she had all replies. Fishing among the parchments strewn on her desk, she drew out the one from Eyri to quickly read over it again.
Lysa Arryn was as diplomatic as ever, calling Cersei a poisoner twice over and blaming her for all manners of ill fates and sundry sins. Not directly of course. While brusque and sometimes outright shrill in person, the Arryn widow could have a rather scathing eloquence in writing, nestling all manners of insults into polite inquiries about ones health and the weather in the capital. It was clear though that she had no interest in negotiations. She confirmed to be 'hosting' the Imp, which was something at least, though she also seemed confident he would admit to conspiracies and plots by house Lannister against her and her family. A letter alone was clearly not enough to solve this.
What to do about Lysa Arryn?
[] [Vale] Leave it be for now.
[] [Vale] Baelish offered to negotiate on your behalf. He has history with Lysa and would likely be well received.
[] [Vale] Send someone else as your envoy: (Write-In)
[] [Vale] Enough of this. Demand Lysa Arryn to present herself and her son at court to swear to Joffrey. You can talk to her in person once she arrives.
To the west, news from the Riverlands were nothing but chaotic. A host of Northmen under Robb Stark was camping north of the Twins, as reported by aunt Genna, who had heard it from her husband. Cerseis letter to Riverrun had also not found its recipient. The response came not from Edmure Tully, but his father Hoster, who thanked her for the opportunity offered to his son and excused that he had opened it since Edmure was in the field and defending the Riverlands from Gregor Clegane and his hosts. 'You do not need a colored tabbard to recognize the Mountain,' the Lord Paramount wrote, dashing all hopes of playing this off as the acts of mere brigands. He also wrote that any response would have to wait for the situation to be resolved and that House Tully would gladly present itself at court in full once the wrongs done to them were righted.
That letter had acquired a few blotches of wine by now, shameful as it was to admit. It was the one she had the greatest hopes for, a way to bind the three northern kingdoms back towards the throne, but the position of Hand alone was clearly not enough. Something needed to be done. Fast at that. At least some goodwill was gained by sending Jaime to deliver the Stark girl. Just yesterday she received another brief letter from Hoster Tully, stating that he was glad to see his granddaughter hale and healthy and that he would remember this kindness. There was one wrinkle though. He also stated that he would send an escort along with Ned Stark to the Wall since Jaime was departing on 'familial business'. Nothing about what that business was, nor what her beautiful, beloved idiot of a brother was thinking.
Now though, delivered just that morning, she held the last reply. Her father had deigned to write her.
To Cersei Baratheon-Lannister, Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms,
I have been informed of your recent actions in Kings Landing and your misguided attempts to maintain the peace of the realm. It is saddening that you hold our house in so little regard that you would debase yourself before the Trouts and the Faith. They may have detained your brother, but a Lannister will not bow to such extortion and threats.
The banners of the Westerlands have been called to rectify your mistakes. We are already on the march to the Golden Tooth and will soon be ready to put the Tullys into their place and force the release of your brother Tyrion. Once this matter has been taken care of, I will come to the capital to assume my position as Hand once more to lead the realm.
Until then, I order you to cease your actions and focus on maintaining the good name of your house. The legitimacy of King Joffrey I should be your first and only concern. Instruct Jaime to muster the Crownlander houses to defend against the Baratheon pretenders until my host arrives.
- Lord Paramount Tywin Lannister
The parchment already had a few nicks and tears from the times she crumpled it up in fury. How. Dare. He. After all she had done. All she had sacrificed. All the indignities she endured because he ordered her to. And now this. If any other lord had written such things to her, she would have told Ser Ilyn to sharpen his sword. If any other lord had ordered his favorite brute to raid another lords lands, they would have just put him under attainder. Half the Crownlands and all of Dorne would cheer if they hacked the Mountains head off. But no. It had to be he father. It had to be the good name of House Lannister. That was always worth more than anyone or anything else.
What now?
[] [Riverlands] Comply with your fathers demands. Let him sort this out.
[] [Riverlands] Go behind his back and write to his bannermen and other family to stop this madness.
[] [Riverlands] Write Hoster Tully again to convince him to comply with your fathers demands to prevent worse bloodshed.
[] [Riverlands] Do something else: (Write-In)
AN: Trying to get Tywin to swallow his pride is a fairly tall order.
Great update, love the politics in the setting. Reminds me too much of real life.
Edit: oh well, we tried to avoid bloodshed but now... i know that it is unlikely, yet is it possible to send a letter to Dondarion since he's the one ordered to bring the Mountain to justice and a letter to Tyrion?
... Jesus, I'm feeling tempted to get a drink myself.
Okay, so good news and bad news. On the good end, the Tyrells seemingly haven't thrown in with Renly (yet) and they're currently sending Olenna to KL, although Mace being 'busy' suggests he's currently meeting with Renly and getting the Baratheon pitch. Also, Joffrey's apparently doing okay? No details on what's going on there, but I think not having Cersei hovering over his shoulder constantly may be doing the boy some good. Our PR is also working out excellently, and the mainland Crownland houses have been successfully wooed, which will hopefully show results if KL comes under siege.
The bad news is, uh, the Tully Gambit hasn't exactly panned out. The whole Tyrion situation is spiraling out of control and we need to solve it, ASAP, lest Tywin start a war in the north the fucking moron.
@Azel - Did the 'diplo' action on Baelish produce any results? I don't believe it was mentioned in the update, and since Lysa holding Tyrion hostage is the lynchpin of this whole mess, Littlefinger's currently really important. Cersei having an idea of how trustworthy he is or knowing what kind of offer he might be willing to buy in exchange for acting as an intermediary (and not taking the brilliant opportunity to betray us) would really help at the moment.
Regarding the nightmares: I say make do with Lancel. All the other options involve getting inebriated with substances. Better to just stick to the wine IMO.
Regarding the Vale: I think we might actually be able to demand Lysa present herself - the Lannister army in the field is probably spooking her. Perhaps we can turn Tywin's intransigence to our advantage.
Regarding the Riverlands: combined diplomatic pressure on the Tullies and Arryns, along with Twin being the angry troll lurking in the wings, might be enough to get them to release Tyrion. Perhaps we can play Good Cop to Tywin's Bad Cop.
The big question, IMO, is if we actually want the little shit back. He and Cersei are, bluntly, enemies. In Clash of Kings he dedicated a huge amount of time and effort to fucking over Cersei specifically.
@Azel - Did the 'diplo' action on Baelish produce any results? I don't believe it was mentioned in the update, and since Lysa holding Tyrion hostage is the lynchpin of this whole mess, Littlefinger's currently really important. Cersei having an idea of how trustworthy he is or knowing what kind of offer he might be willing to buy in exchange for acting as an intermediary (and not taking the brilliant opportunity to betray us) would really help at the moment.
Yeah, it didn't really fit well into the narrative.
The gist of it is that Cersei is absolutely certain that Baelish is untrustworthy and she's not sure what his actual game plan is. He's clearly willing to work with her and will do what he is asked to do as long as it benefits him more than betraying her. But that's about it. Do not expect loyalty from him, but you can use him if you are careful.
What you did get out of the action is decent overview of his businesses and connections in Kings Landing. Hard to say if that makes for good leverage, but it presents an opening to dig deeper into his activities.
The hallway was narrow and reeked of mildew. Nobody ever came there. Dust covered every surface. Now and then a mote would get shaken lose by the candles heat and be sucked into the flame, throwing little sparks as it was consumed. He dress was already soiled, but yet Cersei hurried on as fast as she could. He legs felt leaden. She did not know how long she had been there, how many hours her chase had gone, but the white woman was right there. All bright and perfect. Not a single smudge of dirt or dust on her whit gown. She kept walking ahead of Cersei with light steps, illuminated by the candle as if it was the summer sun. Just ahead. Just a short sprint away.
Except she could not sprint. Every time she tried, her legs would only grow heavier. Her lungs were greedily sucking in the musky air, and yet burned with the feeling of suffocating. And once she tried, once she gasped, the white woman would notice. She would turn, red eyes shining in the candle light, and take a sudden turn. Yet when Cersei would reach the place she had just been, there would be naught but brick and stone where the other woman walked. Just from the corner of her eye, she would see her again, and then the chase resumed. On and on. Hour after hour. Until not an ounce of strength was left in Cersei, and she would just sit down on the grimy floor.
She sat on the Iron Throne, the iron searing to the touch. The heat was unbearable. Every pillar holding the roof was covered in green flames licking up from the braziers. The light was blinding. But there was something beyond the blinding light. The stench was nauseating. Between discarded bone and offal, a pool of blood had formed and within sat the white woman. She paid Cersei no mind though. In her hands, a dragon egg, shell cracked open and smeared with blood. She as devouring it. Bit by bit. Bone by bone. The noises of tearing and snapping clear to heat above the infernos roar.
One month. One month with nary more than an hour of sleep at once. Always the same dream. Always the same nameless terror seeping into her heart until it felt ready to tear.
There is absolutely no way this is natural. My personal best guess is that Cersei's experiencing some particularly brutal Dragon Dreams, and that Azel subscribes to the theory that she and Jaime are the children of Aerys II and Joanna Lannister, instead of Tyrion as Tywin is convinced. It'd certainly explain the incest.
The gist of it is that Cersei is absolutely certain that Baelish is untrustworthy and she's not sure what his actual game plan is. He's clearly willing to work with her and will do what he is asked to do as long as it benefits him more than betraying her. But that's about it. Do not expect loyalty from him, but you can use him if you are careful.
Damn, I was really hoping we'd get an IC hint into what he wanted, since it was patently obvious he's an untrustworthy back-stabber. Right now, my best idea is to send him to the Vale with the promise we'll support a potential claim to being Sweetrobin's regent, plus a major lordship? A big bribe, something to make him follow through on convincing Lysa to play ball instead of having Tyrion tossed out the Eagle Door and watching the Seven Kingdoms immolate.
Damn, I was really hoping we'd get an IC hint into what he wanted, since it was patently obvious he's an untrustworthy back-stabber. Right now, my best idea is to send him to the Vale with the promise we'll support a potential claim to being Sweetrobin's regent, plus a major lordship? A big bribe, something to make him follow through on convincing Lysa to play ball instead of having Tyrion tossed out the Eagle Door and watching the Seven Kingdoms immolate.
All you know is that he has history with the Tully sisters due to a fostering. That's about it. Littlefinger is not exactly talking about his past or feelings a lot.
Nothing seemed to be able to stop the dreams. Maybe Jaime could have, but he wasn't there. Pycelle had given her a vial of poppy milk, though she had yet to try it. After all the men he had poisoned for her, it was rather difficult to trust his philters. Baelish blamed it on the comet above them bathing the night in red light, saying that he too had the odd nightmare in the past weeks. Maybe. Most of the smallfolk called the thing King Joffreys Comet because it had appeared the night before his coronation and then shone on the festivities. By now, Cesei was inclined to call it Harbinger like the more superstitious folk as that had also been the first night she had been haunted by that bloody bitch in her white gown.
By now, she at least had a ritual to deal with it. Get up. Freshen up. Spend some time at her work desk while the Arbor Gold worked it's magic. She just wished it worked faster. Or more reliably. Sometimes a glass got her right back to some semblance of sleep. Sometimes the bottle was nearing it's end and the sun was creeping above the horizon already. Just some rest. That was all she craved. To not be pestered any more by dreams taunting her with things just out of sight.
Thus, my best bet is the Shade of the Evening. It might clarify the prophetic nature of these currently vague and tormenting visions, and give Cersei a better idea of what's happening (and a glimpse of the future, perhaps).
Unfortunately even work was little respite the past few nights. The coronation festivities had wrapped up quite successfully. The smallfolk loved their new king and Joffrey had been in rather high spirits ever since.
Glad to hear the coronation went well, and it seems to have had a knock-on effect on Joffrey too. I suspected his canonical ... horribleness was at least partly influenced by the awful start he had with Eddard's execution and how everyone treated him afterwards - namely, as a vicious little monster to be kept as far from power as possible. Here, his first real experience with kingship has been significantly more positive, the near coup with Ned aside. I'm reminded of the coronation scene in House of the Dragon and the effect it had on Aegon III - thankfully without the psychotic girlboss-on-a-dragon interruption.
There had been a few minor incidents as her boy was figuring out how to behave in his new role, though things worked out. Oddly enough it was the Hound who had been a great aid there. Something was going on between the king and the Lord Commander and the servants whispered about rather heated words behind closed doors, and yet somehow they could be rarely seen separated.
She had been to busy with the Crownlander houses to pay that much attention. Unsurprisingly, the houses Bar Emmon, Massey, Celtigar and Velaryon had not bee showing themselves, all but confirming rumors that they had raised banners for the usurper Stannis. Lord Staunton and both branches of the Brunes had been making excuses too, though they seemed not aligned with Stannis either. Varys suspected that they were instead waiting for one of the Targaryen pretenders. There was a man claiming to be Caern Targaryen, King Scabs younger brother that had been playing sellsword in Essos and been presumed dead since around the time of the Summerhall Tragedy, and Varys presumed those houses were giving credence to his claims.
Okay, the disloyal houses are clear. Stannis's vassals are predictable, but the Crackclaw Point lords holding out for a Targ pretender is more unexpected. Good thing we didn't send Ned through there, I suppose. Also, another Targ claimant to the list, they're just popping out of the ground at this point.
At least the other houses of the Crownlands were pleased with the effort made to court them. Especially the Rykkers were pleasantly surprised to be offered a seat on the Small Council and affirmed that they were willing to bury the grudges left from the rebellion and her fathers against their house.
Well, glad this part panned out. Like I said, they're currently 'our' army, besides the Goldcloaks in KL. Having them on-board and online is important.
Yohn Royce unfortunately was a different matter. While honored by the offer, he said that he had his fill of courtly politics and had meant to return to Runestone. It sounded borderline treasonous, though Baelish assured her in private that Bronze Yohn likely did not want to be caught in between the Arryns and the Baratheon-Lannisters in all of this. Reluctantly, Cersei had agreed to let him leave.
This is unfortunate, though, if expected. My next pick for Master of Laws would be Garlan Tyrell - he's certainly suited for the job, and it's another prize to offer the Tyrells, since we're no doubt competing with Renly here.
Some of the letters she had received had also been, if not perfect for her plans, at least encouraging. Olenna Tyrell had replied on behalf of her son, who was apparently travelling and not in High Garden, and expressed interest in the proposed marriage. She would be coming to Kings Landing soon to speak about the details in person.
This is encouraging! Especially the part about her heading to KL directly, since it means they're clearly taking this at least a little seriously and not just stalling for time. The Tyrells are powerful and ambitious bed-partners, as the Lannisters discovered in canon - but having the Reach aligned with King Joffrey's dynasty is just too good a prize to turn up, especially since the 'Tully Gambit' hasn't turned out like hoped.
Likewise, the Iron Bank seemed pleased by her letter and was willing to send an envoy to discuss payments. Even Baelish seemed oddly pleased by this, though that exchange too was sparse on concrete plans that Cersei could rely on.
Assuring the Iron Bank they'll get their money is hardly a magnificent win, but it's something we wanted to cover. Baelish no doubt has devious plans for further financial fuckery, though.
But then there were the Tullys. And her father. And that whole mess in the Riverlands. And Lysa Arryn. The first cup of wine was already gone and Cersei expected the second to not last all that long either. She had been putting off responses to some of these letters for the last few days, hoping that a solution would present itself once she had all replies. Fishing among the parchments strewn on her desk, she drew out the one from Eyri to quickly read over it again.
Lysa Arryn was as diplomatic as ever, calling Cersei a poisoner twice over and blaming her for all manners of ill fates and sundry sins. Not directly of course. While brusque and sometimes outright shrill in person, the Arryn widow could have a rather scathing eloquence in writing, nestling all manners of insults into polite inquiries about ones health and the weather in the capital.
It was clear though that she had no interest in negotiations. She confirmed to be 'hosting' the Imp, which was something at least, though she also seemed confident he would admit to conspiracies and plots by house Lannister against her and her family. A letter alone was clearly not enough to solve this.
Yeah, no kidding. Tyrion, the damnable Imp, is the root of this whole mess. So long as he's in prison, we can't even begin to start unfucking things, and I can't think of anything we'd offer that Lysa even wants.
We need Baelish, he's the only person Lysa would possibly listen to. If we can convince him it's in his best interests, he'll not only get Tyrion freed, but potentially bring the Vale into the war on our side.
[] [Vale] Baelish offered to negotiate on your behalf. He has history with Lysa and would likely be well received.
[] [Vale] Send someone else as your envoy: (Write-In)
[] [Vale] Enough of this. Demand Lysa Arryn to present herself and her son at court to swear to Joffrey. You can talk to her in person once she arrives.
I can't think of anyone else we could send that'd work, and demanding she show up in KL is a one-way ticket to at-best being blown off, and at worst having her strike banners for one of the Pretenders.
To the west, news from the Riverlands were nothing but chaotic. A host of Northmen under Robb Stark was camping north of the Twins, as reported by aunt Genna, who had heard it from her husband.
We should probably send a letter to the Twins 'encouraging' them to keep their gates shut. The usual bribes - court positions, betrothals, maybe even supporting them as LP of the Riverlands if we completely give up on winning over the Tullys. Just keep Robb sitting high and dry on the wrong side of the Trident.
Cerseis letter to Riverrun had also not found its recipient. The response came not from Edmure Tully, but his father Hoster, who thanked her for the opportunity offered to his son and excused that he had opened it since Edmure was in the field and defending the Riverlands from Gregor Clegane and his hosts. 'You do not need a colored tabbard to recognize the Mountain,' the Lord Paramount wrote, dashing all hopes of playing this off as the acts of mere brigands. He also wrote that any response would have to wait for the situation to be resolved and that House Tully would gladly present itself at court in full once the wrongs done to them were righted.
Yeah, crap. I'd hoped that Hoster was too sick to play politics at this point, but no such luck. Meanwhile, the Gregor situation has proven too volatile to gloss over. Tch. Maybe if dear old dad was willing to play ball ...
That letter had acquired a few blotches of wine by now, shameful as it was to admit. It was the one she had the greatest hopes for, a way to bind the three northern kingdoms back towards the throne, but the position of Hand alone was clearly not enough. Something needed to be done. Fast at that.
That's the crux of the matter. I was honestly considering offering Cersei as a match for Edmure - he's been refusing matches arranged by Hoster, and our dear protagonist's beauty is legendary. But if we're talking with Hoster, I doubt he'd bite. So what else can we offer to sweeten the pot?
At least some goodwill was gained by sending Jaime to deliver the Stark girl. Just yesterday she received another brief letter from Hoster Tully, stating that he was glad to see his granddaughter hale and healthy and that he would remember this kindness. There was one wrinkle though. He also stated that he would send an escort along with Ned Stark to the Wall since Jaime was departing on 'familial business'. Nothing about what that business was, nor what her beautiful, beloved idiot of a brother was thinking.
Who the hell even knows what's going on here. Maybe Jaime's going after Clegane? Or maybe he's in a cell right now as a hostage. I guess we can only find out.
Now though, delivered just that morning, she held the last reply. Her father had deigned to write her.
To Cersei Baratheon-Lannister, Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms,
I have been informed of your recent actions in Kings Landing and your misguided attempts to maintain the peace of the realm. It is saddening that you hold our house in so little regard that you would debase yourself before the Trouts and the Faith. They may have detained your brother, but a Lannister will not bow to such extortion and threats.
The banners of the Westerlands have been called to rectify your mistakes. We are already on the march to the Golden Tooth and will soon be ready to put the Tullys into their place and force the release of your brother Tyrion. Once this matter has been taken care of, I will come to the capital to assume my position as Hand once more to lead the realm.
Until then, I order you to cease your actions and focus on maintaining the good name of your house. The legitimacy of King Joffrey I should be your first and only concern. Instruct Jaime to muster the Crownlander houses to defend against the Baratheon pretenders until my host arrives.
This makes everything so much much more difficult! Why on earth does he think he can just fucking blitz through the Riverlands, and fight the North and the Vale while at it?
... Okay, if we win the Tyrells over, it's not an unwinnable war. But we currently have no idea how that gambit will turn out, and they've a history of sitting affairs like this out until a winning side has revealed itself, such as in Robert's Rebellion (although Stannis would strongly disagree).
Way I see it, we've two options. A, assume the Tully Gambit is dead and move again them - promise the Freys the LPship of the Riverlands, hope he can replicate his canonical rampage despite our meddling, and flip as many other houses as we can. The Vale will probably remain neutral, and the North should be busy sieging the Twins, allowing us to try and focus on the Baratheon Brothers.
Option B is a lot trickier. Send Littlefinger to the Vale to free Tyrion, hope that mollifies Tywin's desire to save Lannister face for the kidnapping, and give the Tullys a good enough bribe to overlook everything that happened and at least stay neutral in the war.
I do think trying to undermine Tywin is a complete non-starter. It just wouldn't work, it'd completely poison our relationship with real political implications, it's just a bad idea.
[ ] Plan: Making the Gambit Work
-[] [Nightmares] It's said that a glass of Shade of the Evening helps to sort out this kind of dream.
-[] [Vale] Baelish offered to negotiate on your behalf. He has history with Lysa and would likely be well received.
--[ ] Cut the slimy little creep a deal; he talks Lysa into releasing our stunted little brother and/or declaring for King Joffrey, and he'll have the Iron Throne's support for whatever he plans with Sweetrobin's regency.
-[] [Riverlands] Write Hoster Tully again to convince him to comply with your fathers demands to prevent worse bloodshed.
--[ ] Promise Hoster a betrothal between Edmure and Princess Myrcella in addition to the position of Hand and a Crown tax indemnity in compensation for the damages caused by Gregor's raiding, in exchange for an apology given for Tyrion's kidnapping appropriately face-saving for the Lannisters, and encouraging his daughter to release the Imp unharmed.
This is a plan that attempts to patch the whole clusterfuck together and prevent the war from turning into a two-front mess. It promises a bribe to Baelish to encourage his success and gives several further bribes to the Tullys to get them to play along. The position of Hand, a royal marriage, and a tax indemnity we really can't afford should all hopefully combined be enough to convince Hoster it's worth overlooking the raiding and giving Tywin the face he demands.
The issues here are obvious, though. Baelish could screw us over, or simply take too long to see Tyrion released before Tywin starts his invasion. Hoster could decide the bullshit is too much to swallow and declare for Renly. And finally, Tywin might be angry enough to just invade anyways, even without a cassus belli.
That being said, this is probably our best chance to prevent a northern front to this war. It might be well worth taking.
