- Location
- Germany
You have Pyromancers and one of the sellswords have a disgraced maester with a reputation for dark magics.
The Lonely Lioness - Cersei Lannister Quest
- Thread starter Azel
- Start date
- Mature
The thing is we do not want to hurt him, the point here is, ironically enough for Cersei not spite, it's not get him out of the way so we can make use of his resources. If we piss him off he will just be more of an annoyance.
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
By it being beneficial for them to do so. Even if they refuse the betrothal/marraige offers it's an honest attempt to reach out and make ties to cease the fighting. We've killed precisely zero starks. Meanwhile the Targaryens Mad king started Roberts Rebellion by killing the Lord of the North, his heir, and calling for the heads of Ned and Robert. The Fyres are largely a bunch of Essosi sellswords, save of course for Euron Saltfyre, the Truest Targaryen to ever live. (also the maddest) And any Targaryen claimant has naught to offer the seven kingdoms but fire and blood.
We're offering weddings and the position of Hand, real offers, with the Weddings ensuring it that both our family and theirs have reason to cease the fighting and work together. Especially since the Targaryens and Stannis follow foreign gods with fondnesses for burning trees. All the Starks and Tully's have to do is say yes to our offer. We clear Edmure of the assassination charges, we heal the rift between them and the crown by marrying them to the Kings family and help head off any issues with their loyalists. Then, assuming both Accept the matches, or at least see it for the attempt at reconciliation and open some sort of dialogue we can join together the royal and tyrell armies, and northerners and Riverlanders and use the four armies or the threat of such to call Tywin to kneel.
Then, we can use the combined forces to start seeing off challengers and mix our families blood with the Tyrells, Tully's and starks. Add in that Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella each have Baratheon claims and we have most of the kingdoms Lords paramounts related to us by blood and working together. Even better if we have Shireen Baratheon also in hand.
Beyond that, having Edmure take his position as hand, and actually visibly be seen to be using it and ruling should go a long way to rebuilding trust after Ned was ousted if nothing else. And Like I originally argued for and was argued against, if nothing else we've got Cersei and Myrcella's hands to bargain with.
Assassinate our own father? No. Never.
And it certainly seems like he won't cooperate now. But if we can actually build a stable web of alliances. Such that him winning the war and keeping Joffrey on the throne simply by kneeling removes the Starks and Tully's as enemies and even turns them into allies... then he should accept. Or at the very least if he doesn't accept our rightful commands then with potentially four other armies set against him, to say nothing of any Lannisters who would be... confused at him not following the king. Then we'd have credible cause to quietly have him retired to casterly rock while another rules as Warden of the west and our Lord father enjoys a healthy retirement hunting and fishing in his old age.
Thus calling Joffrey to return to kings landing to seal the alliance with the Tyrells and for Edmure Tully to come take his seat as hand, hopefully and likely with an army. Then we can defend the city against any pretenders. Get marraiges wedded and bedded or at the very least betrothals signed. And once our position is secure use the armies to aid in clearing the crownlands of invaders.
And the ransom thing is most certainly not done. We didn't pay the ransom. We wrote some letters promising a lordship over dragonstone if we pay the ransom with safeies to ensure we actually get the hostages and the pirate doesn't just run off with the gold there's no reason to think we wouldn't get them. Ultimately, people tried to be clever and haggle instead of just paying the bloody asking price. It's refusing Renly's fucking pardon all over again.
As for authority to Marry off Lannisters. Power lies where men think it resides and where men want it to reside. Joffrey is king and Cersei the Queen Regent and eldest daughter of Tywin, heir to Casterly Rock. We absolutely have the Authority, if they want the Lannister matches then the Starks and Tully's can tie their cause with our own. And we also do have Myrcella's hand to bargain with for definite. Plus cersei's own. With four armies on our side if Tywin does not join our side then and hand over the Mountain he would have to be either the most stiff necked old goat to ever live or going senile in his old age. Either way, assuming he's not, he'd be all be certain to accept the alliances Cersei is trying to forge since it places a Lannister ass in almost every high seat in the realm.
Very bad idea. We're using Aerys madness as reason against Targaryen Pretenders. To try and claim our own grandsire is going mad chips away at our own reputation and credibility.
I wouldn't loudly call him out as insane. Just ask for his loyalty to Joffrey the king with the help of multiple armies. And if he then refuses, we'd quietly sound out some other members of House Lannister and his household knights to help him step down and turn over his army to Joffrey Baratheon-Lannister the rightful king while Joffs beloved grandsire gets a break from the stresses of ruling over his long and distinguished career to enjoy some much needed leisure time.
Assuming Tywin doesn't yield when faced with multiple armies, which, he should, let's be honest.
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See I would rather not fight what should be our armies. A single knife to the back can spare s lot of Lannister soldiers and those of other kingdoms stabbed in the front. I have no respect for his common sense and less his willingness to kneel to Joffrey, which is to say to Cersei herself. You have to keep in mind Tywin is not actually clever, he is a mediocre lord who got lucky to have been born in the precise time when Casterly Rock needed nothing more than someone bloody minded and bloody handed at the helm.
- Location
- Germany
I have to yet again point out that there is an active civil war in the Riverlands and the North. Most of the Tully bannermen are with Stark or Bolton. Hoster is isolated in Riverrun. Tywin fields by far the largest army in the Region and is likely allied with the Bolton / Frey group.
There's no big Riverlands or North army you can acquire here.
There's no big Riverlands or North army you can acquire here.
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BoSPaladin
The Paladin
Madness, Madness and stupidity. What the fuck is Tywin doing?!
This ought to have been settled the instant Joffrey added his signature to the charges against the mountain. Ned goes to the Wall. Rob Sits down. We make concessions to the Tully's and placate the Stark/Tully/Arryn camp and they publicly confirm Joff as the king. Ned has recanted his claims of the King and his siblings being bastards.
Instead Tywin seems set on burning the riverlands to the ground because his pet murderer got called out!
No. The plan remains the same. Alliances to Robb and Edmure. The Lord and heir of houses stark and Tully. Get them into Joffreys camp and publicly supporting him and what choice does Tywin have but to back his grandson the king and arrest the Lords paramounts bannermen the Boltons and freys.
This ought to have been settled the instant Joffrey added his signature to the charges against the mountain. Ned goes to the Wall. Rob Sits down. We make concessions to the Tully's and placate the Stark/Tully/Arryn camp and they publicly confirm Joff as the king. Ned has recanted his claims of the King and his siblings being bastards.
Instead Tywin seems set on burning the riverlands to the ground because his pet murderer got called out!
No. The plan remains the same. Alliances to Robb and Edmure. The Lord and heir of houses stark and Tully. Get them into Joffreys camp and publicly supporting him and what choice does Tywin have but to back his grandson the king and arrest the Lords paramounts bannermen the Boltons and freys.
Being in character. Why should be care about a boy king who's really moving to the tune of the daughter he thinks he should still be in control of?
- Location
- Germany
As it stands? Winning the war and installing loyal puppet Lords Paramount in the Riverlands and North. Without Eddards execution to unify them against the crown, Catelyns actions and Lysas obvious issues made them much more vulnerable to infighting.
Get Joffrey to Harrenhal, get declared Regent and have Cersei thrown into a tower until the war is over.
Perhaps I'm failing at conveying what is happening, or maybe I need to start being more frank, but there is a good bit of misunderstanding happening here it seems. Your position is incredibly precarious. Your authority basically stops at the city wall of Kings Landing. Joffrey is out and about and if Tywin gets him, it's over for you. The only reason it's not yet entirely hopeless is that Olenna saw an opportunity to get Margaery on the throne and be the sole power behind it by virtue of the Lannister infighting.
- Location
- Arcadia
Yep, I think things are precarious enough that we need Tywin dead, not in general, now.
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Perhaps, then, what we really ought to be doing is meeting with Lannister bannermen and seeing who is willing to back us should we put a bloody stop to Tywin's treason.
Where is the curse of Harrenhall when you need it?
That's easy, no one. He's Tywin and they are terrified of him, we are playing Tywin's daughter. More to the point any of them that we care about (i.e. the ones with soldiers) are already under his eye.
- Location
- Arcadia
Hm, even with Tywin eliminated, one wonders if Kevan would be any more cooperative. Perhaps it will be necessary to arrange for both their assassinations simultaneously.
- Location
- Germany
Doable as a write-in action but you are fairly short on trustworthy people who can hire assassins for you.
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
Because that boy king is his grandson and his Legacy. *who else* Does he fucking back?
And beyond that his choices for heir to the rock at this point boil down to either Tyrion, Cersei and/or one of her kids. Or his brother or a minor Lannister cousin.
Tyrion is laughable. And his brothers family or a cadet branch heir are unpalatable if he wants a direct blood related heir of his in the rock. Even then. If they inherit the westerlands they're still beholden to the Iron Throne. So unless Tywin is willing to tear his house apart and kill his only daughter and his grandkids or at the very least using Joffrey as an obvious puppet he has to accept joffrey as king sooner or later.
Sooner! If Joff returns to the city and puts a cloak on Margaery and gains a Tyrell army.
Because him reducing Joff to a puppet ruler makes the Iron Throne look weak. And how can the realm respect him if he's defying his true king.
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Thus the letter to get Joffrey to kings landing. Get him married. Defend the city from the invaders and shore up our position. And after that with a Tyrell Army backing Joffrey and Margaery Tywin has the stark choice of either accepting Joffreys rule and the calls for the mountains head and finishing the war. Or tearing house lannister and possibly even the seven kingdoms apart.
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The problem I think is you think he actually cares about his legacy, to be fair not only has be claimes he does, but he probably believes he cares about it as well. In truth be cares about his pride, he cares about how House Lannister as an extension of himself is seen in the here and now. From that perspective actually listening to Joffrey and treating him as a king as opposed to a callow boy he can move around the board (which has @Azel has pointed out he can at least in the short term) would look weak.
And that is what really drives Tywin Lannister, not looking weak like daddy.
- Location
- Germany
He doesn't want respect, he wants fear.
Winning the war in the Riverlands is far more important to him than not having to fight it in the first place, I think.
- Location
- Who knows?
Thanks for the bluntness, but it probably would've been more in character to let the players run around like headless chickens and then break things down post mortem
Also pooey me for not spotting that Tywin's biggest simp Pycelle would've put a hamper in any plans to go against daddy dearest. It explains so much.
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What are the chances we pull the Purple Wedding plot but it's Tywin getting poisoned?
- Location
- Who knows?
Honestly that would likely involve Tywin consolidating power via getting custody of Joffrey, setting things in the North/Riverlands as he pleases and then coming back to KL for his victory lap. So him them dropping dead on the cusp of victory would cause maximum chaos and instability for everyone aka the most plausible way Cersei would get help to do so
- Location
- Arcadia
Hm, it was already noted that there is a shortage of trustworthy people that can hire assassins for Cersei.
...It will probably have to be Varys. He is the opposite of trustworthy, but there are not many options. It will cause problems in the longer term, but if the immediate problem of Tywin is not resolved now, it will explicitly be the end for Cersei.
...It will probably have to be Varys. He is the opposite of trustworthy, but there are not many options. It will cause problems in the longer term, but if the immediate problem of Tywin is not resolved now, it will explicitly be the end for Cersei.
I wasn't satisfied with the current plans, so I came up with Plan: Fuck Tywin.
[X] Plan: Fuck Tywin
[X] [Pycelle] Execute him for treason. Expose Tywin Lannister's betrayal of the crown.
-[X] Arrange for the executioner to be as drunk as possible to prolong the beheading. Traitors will be punished severely. Afterwards, have the body fed to the goats.
[X] [Replacement] Pycelle was always dismissive of the supernatural. See that you find someone more open-minded to advise you. (Locks 1 Action)
[X] Try to send someone to treat with the Lady Velaryon. She might have come to regret her late husbands disloyalty and could be willing to swear to the crown once more.
-[X] Inquire as to what happened on Dragonstone and see if she could be of any help in either killing Aukar Brightfyre or rescuing the hostages. Promise a pardon for her and her family if they swear loyalty to the crown.
--[X]Letters
--[X] Write to your son, King Joffery, of the marriage alliance you've brokered with the Tyrells and the small council position you've offered. Apologize for marrying him off without his input, but remind him that the situation is extremely dire and we need allies to survive. Ask him to keep an eye for talented knights to shore up his Kingsguard while he's on campaign, especially considering Blount's cowardice. Advise that Boros should be sent to the wall and replaced - ideally Riverlander and Reach knights should be considered as those kingdoms will be vital to the Realms stability in the coming years. Finally, tell your son about your grandfather's betrayal and warn him that Tywin likely plans to imprison Joffrey at Harrenhal and declare himself Regent. You do not believe he was behind the assassination, but nor do you believe it was Stark or Tully. We already have enough enemies without inviting more. Nonetheless, you're proud of him, and believe he has what it takes to reunite the realm and expel the invaders. He's growing into a fine young man, and a good king.
--[X] Send Ravens in a general proclamation that the Starks and Tullys are innocent and that they were not behind the king's attempted assassination. At the same time, pardon those (except Tywin) who took part in the attack on the Stark and Tully troops as they were misled by Tywin Lannister, who has betrayed the Crown and is trying to seize the king to rule through him as a puppet.
--[X] Send a letter to Darry where Robb Stark was seen headed last. Apologize for the trouble he experienced in the Riverlands, say that we know that he was not behind the king's attempted assassination, that the Crown does not intend to go to war against his family and that Tywin has gone rogue.
--[X] Send a letter to Duskendale to Edmure Tully, Loyal Hand of King Joffrey, protector of the realm. Pronounce him innocent of the attempted assassination aimed at King Joffrey and invite him to King's Landing to take his place as Hand.
[X] Plan: Fuck Tywin
[X] [Pycelle] Execute him for treason. Expose Tywin Lannister's betrayal of the crown.
-[X] Arrange for the executioner to be as drunk as possible to prolong the beheading. Traitors will be punished severely. Afterwards, have the body fed to the goats.
[X] [Replacement] Pycelle was always dismissive of the supernatural. See that you find someone more open-minded to advise you. (Locks 1 Action)
[X] Try to send someone to treat with the Lady Velaryon. She might have come to regret her late husbands disloyalty and could be willing to swear to the crown once more.
-[X] Inquire as to what happened on Dragonstone and see if she could be of any help in either killing Aukar Brightfyre or rescuing the hostages. Promise a pardon for her and her family if they swear loyalty to the crown.
--[X]Letters
--[X] Write to your son, King Joffery, of the marriage alliance you've brokered with the Tyrells and the small council position you've offered. Apologize for marrying him off without his input, but remind him that the situation is extremely dire and we need allies to survive. Ask him to keep an eye for talented knights to shore up his Kingsguard while he's on campaign, especially considering Blount's cowardice. Advise that Boros should be sent to the wall and replaced - ideally Riverlander and Reach knights should be considered as those kingdoms will be vital to the Realms stability in the coming years. Finally, tell your son about your grandfather's betrayal and warn him that Tywin likely plans to imprison Joffrey at Harrenhal and declare himself Regent. You do not believe he was behind the assassination, but nor do you believe it was Stark or Tully. We already have enough enemies without inviting more. Nonetheless, you're proud of him, and believe he has what it takes to reunite the realm and expel the invaders. He's growing into a fine young man, and a good king.
--[X] Send Ravens in a general proclamation that the Starks and Tullys are innocent and that they were not behind the king's attempted assassination. At the same time, pardon those (except Tywin) who took part in the attack on the Stark and Tully troops as they were misled by Tywin Lannister, who has betrayed the Crown and is trying to seize the king to rule through him as a puppet.
--[X] Send a letter to Darry where Robb Stark was seen headed last. Apologize for the trouble he experienced in the Riverlands, say that we know that he was not behind the king's attempted assassination, that the Crown does not intend to go to war against his family and that Tywin has gone rogue.
--[X] Send a letter to Duskendale to Edmure Tully, Loyal Hand of King Joffrey, protector of the realm. Pronounce him innocent of the attempted assassination aimed at King Joffrey and invite him to King's Landing to take his place as Hand.
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[X] Plan: Fuck Tywin
- Location
- La Serena, Chile
[X] Plan: Fuck Tywin
This Is my vote, but any chance for this subsection to be eliminated/edited?
[] [Pycelle] Execute him for treason. Expose Tywin Lannister's betrayal of the crown.
We know Tywin can be very cruel at inflicting pain to prove his point. Like everything je did regarding Tysha and keeping the Mountain around even if it costs him polititcally.
So far, Cersei has not commited acts of cruelty, working her damnest best with a far less than ideal position.
Executing Pycelle should be quick to show we aren't like Tywin, even using it to make a commentary about the kind of Man he Is. Maybe do so before all King's Landing to show the presence of Traitors to the rule and Peace of their "fair and just King/Queen"
This Is my vote, but any chance for this subsection to be eliminated/edited?
[] [Pycelle] Execute him for treason. Expose Tywin Lannister's betrayal of the crown.
We know Tywin can be very cruel at inflicting pain to prove his point. Like everything je did regarding Tysha and keeping the Mountain around even if it costs him polititcally.
So far, Cersei has not commited acts of cruelty, working her damnest best with a far less than ideal position.
Executing Pycelle should be quick to show we aren't like Tywin, even using it to make a commentary about the kind of Man he Is. Maybe do so before all King's Landing to show the presence of Traitors to the rule and Peace of their "fair and just King/Queen"