The Dragon Roars: A KMT Quest

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[] [ECONOMY] Focus on Rebuilding Sichuan's Agriculture.
[] [ADMINISTRATION] Recreate Republican Institutions.
[] [BUREAUCRACY] Rely on Local Powerbrokers.
[] [SICHUAN] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
-[] Rely on NRA Forces.
[] [GUIZHOU] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
-[] Rely on Liu Xiang's Forces.

Initial thoughts on what to take. We need to stabilize Sichuan as quickly as possible and that means fixing their agriculture to get them out of famine. The administration meanwhile is a solid entrenched powerbase that I would rather not be absorbed into the KMT. In Guizhou on the other hand we have very devolved local authorities that we can work with to establish our presence there quickly before others (Xin Han, the Republicans) worm their way in.

Accordingly we also rely on the NRA to crackdown on rebels and enforce our authority in Sichuan while replacing the administration there. Liu Xiang's troops should be better suited towards working with the local powerbrokers in Guizhou.
 
[] Plan The Wonders of Local Government
[X] KMT - Independents
[X] [ECONOMY] Focus on Rebuilding Sichuan's Agriculture.
[X] [ADMINISTRATION] Reform the Current Taiping Administrations.
[X] [BUREAUCRACY] Rely on Local Powerbrokers.
[X] [SICHUAN] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
-[x] Rely on NRA Forces.
[X] [GUIZHOU] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
-[x] Rely on Liu Xiang's Forces.
 
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nachtingale said:
"Our revolutionary comrades in China place little confidence in the success of the Vietnamese struggle,
they see it as little more than an additional burden to their own struggle. Our cause must be rapidly intensified..."

​
- Phan Bội Châu's Diary.​
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I'm sorry man, we'll back you up more if we could win at home first.

nachtingale said:
Other such requests for the amendment of the export ratios would be easily shrugged off by the Germans.
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Oof. Smth to push for revision after unification.

nachtingale said:
Notably, the matter of Sinophobic sentiments would persist even into the socialist administration, with much of the West Coast approving still of the continuation of some form of the Chinese Exclusion Act.
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Hmm it seems UASR republics have similar leeway in subnational lawmaking for this to happen. Still, both the need to resolve this issue & for that sweet economic benefit of American friendship would be aided by deepening relations.

nachtingale said:
[] [ECONOMY] Focus on Rebuilding Sichuan's Agriculture.
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The most pressing economic issue for Sichuan rn.

nachtingale said:
[] [ADMINISTRATION] Reform the Current Taiping Administrations.
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I would be all for this if not for the fact that the NRA gifted both governorship over Sichuan & military command ("pragmatism" my ass, the NRA could have chosen to grant just one of em & Liu Xang would've still turned coat). As it stands, would the convenience & reform enough to prevent from further empowering Liu Xang? I'm torn...

nachtingale said:
[] [BUREAUCRACY] Rely on Local Powerbrokers.
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>landlords & local militia

Neo-feudal-ass compromise. Not worth it IMO, even with some of local players being autonomous communes. No built-up bureaucracy like in Sichuan to create a dilemma either. We gotta start civil servant structure from the ground up here.
 
Regency said:
>landlords & local militia

Neo-feudal-ass compromise. Not worth it IMO, even with some of local players being autonomous communes. No built-up bureaucracy like in Sichuan to create a dilemma either. We gotta start civil servant structure from the ground up here.
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Also it makes the job harder for Liu Xiang's troops in the immediate short term. Gaining us even more room to gobble up Sichuan.

Having Liu Xiang's troops working with the Local power players merely means he gets to benefit from a Feudal set up to immediately pivot his troops back into the Sichuan Basing.

So not only is it better for our system to build things up from the ground level now, it also means these soldiers that we want out of Sichuan will be too busy fighting Taiping Remnants and Southern Warlord/French troops.
 
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A part of me wants to industrialize Sichuan buy making sure that the province is in order first would be a bigger priority.

Want Sichuan Administration to be a Republican one considering the importance of Sichuan as was previously discussed.

Leaning towards using Local Powerbrokers due to the fact that Guizhou is isloated and making sure that the place wouldn't be immediately compromised is a priority.

Generally Agree that the NRA should pacify Sichuan.
 
I'm a bit worried about Guizhou with the mention of building a republican administration there having the problem of being a "potential opportunity for our rivals, both internal and abroad, to establish their own presence first in turn." The main advantage of doing so anyway on the other hand would be the ability to impose whatever policies we want without interference there, but only if we do get in before others do which is the main concern with doing it.

Authority in Guizhou is "significantly devolved amongst the Guizhou population, landlords, small militia forces and even autonomous communes" which is... a complete and utter mess but one that we can use to get some semblance of control quickly. My main concern here is the whereabouts of Yang Sen, a OTL warlord of Sichuan and Guizhou who had made extra demands of Duan Qurai for participating in his plot.
 
Yang Sen maybe a KMT member considering his Wikipedia page mentions him joining the Xinhai Revolution. But the Wikipedia page also lacks anything resembling a biography and opts of a rough timeline of his life, so not entirely sure. Duan Qurai is unclear considering he is described as a initially loyal but then split off with Yuan Shikai and not exactly a constitutionalist.
 
[] Plan Destroy Warlordism! Construct Socialist Republicanism!
-[] KMT - Revolutionary Group
-[] [ECONOMY] Expand the Industrial Potential of Sichuan.
-[] [ADMINISTRATION] Recreate Republican Institutions.
-[] [BUREAUCRACY] Attempt to Build a Republican Administration.
-[] [SICHUAN] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
--[] Rely on NRA Forces.
-[] [GUIZHOU] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
--[] Rely on Liu Xiang's Forces.
 
nachtingale said:
Notably, the matter of Sinophobic sentiments would persist even into the socialist administration, with much of the West Coast approving still of the continuation of some form of the Chinese Exclusion Act.
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Damn completely forgot about racism. We were so focused about how socialist the Americans are right now and completely forgot they are equally if not more racist.

Fireiy said:
[] [ECONOMY] Focus on Rebuilding Sichuan's Agriculture.
[] [ADMINISTRATION] Recreate Republican Institutions.
[] [BUREAUCRACY] Rely on Local Powerbrokers.
[] [SICHUAN] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
-[] Rely on NRA Forces.
[] [GUIZHOU] Use the Military to Crackdown on Rebels.
-[] Rely on Liu Xiang's Forces.
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I'm with Fireiy on this one. We reestablish Sichuan as a breadbasket then focus our industry on Lanzhou and Beijing when we integrate it. Can't industrialize everywhere all at once after all.

Guizhou is too far away to build a proper Republican administration. The threat of Xin Han interference is large. Sichuan needs that Taiping influence stamped out just purely based on its population.
 
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People forget the other facet however. Guizhou is a poor landlocked region, extremely isolated from the rest of China and poor even in 2024. If somebody wants to fight Liu Xiang's forces in Guizhou over control of it. I mean.

okay? why do we give a shit? if it distracts rivals and Liu Xiang, therefore buys us time to build up in Sichuan and the North, then it's our strategic victory.

If the Republican Programs succeed in Guizhou, fantastic its gravy and gets our people experience in crash building institutions. If the Republican Programs fails, our people still gain experience, and several external and internal rivals are going to be throwing money to fuck with a Province that wasn't going to give us anything worthwhile anyways.

Worse case scenario is that we lose Guizhou. Which hey, if Liu Xiang's troops are the ones who fuck that up. Well not looking good for him. Gained us a province, lost us a province, maybe an inquiry will be necessary.
 
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If we go by the concept that all our competent administrators are finite and come from the same place (*crown* lands of the Republic), then sending them to the hopeless Guizhou means that they are not engaged in the restoration of Sichuan or the integration of Zhili.

Instead of a fully restored Sichuan and a somewhat loyal Guizhou, we may get a poorly restored Sichuan and a rebellious Guizhou.
 
Bylba said:
If we go by the concept that all our competent administrators are finite and come from the same place (*crown* lands of the Republic), then sending them to the hopeless Guizhou means that they are not engaged in the restoration of Sichuan or the integration of Zhili.

Instead of a fully restored Sichuan and a somewhat loyal Guizhou, we may get a poorly restored Sichuan and a rebellious Guizhou.
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I am worried about this. Beyond the local feasibility of building the republican administration, we are already planning to expand it to further integrate two very high value province's in Zhili and Sichuan.

Further expansions are invetiably going to slow these efforts down, if only because the responsible staff will be busy organising Guizhou stuff even if it doesn't consume resources directly
 
Acc. No. 1409 said:
Yang Sen maybe a KMT member considering his Wikipedia page mentions him joining the Xinhai Revolution. But the Wikipedia page also lacks anything resembling a biography and opts of a rough timeline of his life, so not entirely sure. Duan Qurai is unclear considering he is described as a initially loyal but then split off with Yuan Shikai and not exactly a constitutionalist.
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To be honest I only trust OTL as far as the general locations they were based out of. Duan Qurui (realized I misspelt the name there, sorry) is the leader of the Xin Han here after all. But we do know in quest that Yang Sen was with the Taiping and is working with Duan Qurui here and also demanded more for his position. Hence the concern about his presence being nearby to poke into Guizhou.
Kairos said:
I'm with Fireiy on this one. We reestablish Sichuan as a breadbasket then focus our industry on Lanzhou and Beijing when we integrate it. Can't industrialize everywhere all at once after all.
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I disagree here, my plan isn't to relegate Sichuan entirely to a breadbasket. I place emphasis on agriculture because that's the absolute quickest and most important to rebuild in order to restore some semblance of a local economy in Sichuan and to be able to feed itself without famine relief from Zhili. But I do not intend on focusing industrialization solely on Lanzhou and Beijing as I do want to return to industrializing Sichuan later, I just think that a agricultural revolution is needed there before a industrial one.
Bylba said:
If we go by the concept that all our competent administrators are finite and come from the same place (*crown* lands of the Republic), then sending them to the hopeless Guizhou means that they are not engaged in the restoration of Sichuan or the integration of Zhili.

Instead of a fully restored Sichuan and a somewhat loyal Guizhou, we may get a poorly restored Sichuan and a rebellious Guizhou.
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That's actually a very good point that I hadn't considered. We probably don't actually have a unlimited supply of new administrators to pull from here so focusing all our efforts there on Sichuan would be for the best as well. Guizhou isn't so important for us to risk spreading our still rebuilding administration thin.

Also as a reminder, we do have emancipation still going on which will be completed by turn 9 and the reform of the bureaucracy won't be finished until turn 11.
 
It's been a little bit, so I need some reminders on stuff.

Did we promise someone from the Taiping they'd become governor if they defected? Do we have any outstanding promises not to touch the administration there?

Who's Liu Xiang again? Is he a Taiping defector or a warlord ally we've got running around?
 
Fission Battery said:
It's been a little bit, so I need some reminders on stuff.

Did we promise someone from the Taiping they'd become governor if they defected? Do we have any outstanding promises not to touch the administration there?

Who's Liu Xiang again? Is he a Taiping defector or a warlord ally we've got running around?
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Liu Xiang is the Taiping defector who came to us with his army in exchange for becoming governor of Sichuan. I do not think we promised anything about the administration there, but he did get to keep personal command of his forces.
 
Fireiy said:
Liu Xiang is the Taiping defector who came to us with his army in exchange for becoming governor of Sichuan. I do not think we promised anything about the administration there, but he did get to keep personal command of his forces.
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We didn't, however the MCC and the NRA had agreed to his initial demands infull and do recognize him as governor of Sichuan I believe, which is something to keep in mind.
 
Bylba said:
If we go by the concept that all our competent administrators are finite and come from the same place (*crown* lands of the Republic), then sending them to the hopeless Guizhou means that they are not engaged in the restoration of Sichuan or the integration of Zhili.

Instead of a fully restored Sichuan and a somewhat loyal Guizhou, we may get a poorly restored Sichuan and a rebellious Guizhou.
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That's why we focus the NRA there to have Legbreakers to speed along the process. Do not misunderstand people, this is Warlord China, Revolutionary Warlord China. A lot of the work of the NRA/Liu Xiang's troops in a place as broken as Sichuan and isolated as Guizhou will be "shooting recalcitrant landlords in the face and taking all their lands at gunpoint".

Which btw, we need to do anyways if we want to push forward the revolutionary land reforms necessary to take a feudal society into an early modern/industrial one.

Brightflame said:
We didn't, however the MCC and the NRA had agreed to his initial demands infull and do recognize him as governor of Sichuan I believe, which is something to keep in mind.
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They accepted because the Civilian Government in Lanzhou was being incompetent buffons again, and making any decision was better than being gridlock into nothing.

They are not going to complain if we move them in to establish the NRA solidly in Sichuan, one of the most valuable provinces in China, while muscling out Liu Xiang. They gain power too, that lubricates a lot of things and can be seen as a demonstration of our faith and belief in the NRA.
 
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Deadly Snark said:
That's why we focus the NRA there to have Legbreakers to speed along the process. Do not misunderstand people, this is Warlord China, Revolutionary Warlord China. A lot of the work of the NRA/Liu Xiang's troops in a place as broken as Sichuan and isolated as Guizhou will be "shooting recalcitrant landlords in the face and taking all their lands at gunpoint".

Which btw, we need to do anyways if we want to push forward the revolutionary land reforms necessary to take a feudal society into an early modern/industrial one.
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Having the NRA in Sichuan does not solve the problem of not having enough competent administrators for both Sichuan and Guizhou though, which is the potential issue being raised here. Having the force of the NRA to crush the bandits and enforce our authority over the petty warlords will certainly be very useful there, but also trying to build up Guizhou's administration at the same time brings the risk of the reconstruction of their administration being even slower than it already will be.
 
Fireiy said:
I disagree here, my plan isn't to relegate Sichuan entirely to a breadbasket. I place emphasis on agriculture because that's the absolute quickest and most important to rebuild in order to restore some semblance of a local economy in Sichuan and to be able to feed itself without famine relief from Zhili. But I do not intend on focusing industrialization solely on Lanzhou and Beijing as I do want to return to industrializing Sichuan later, I just think that a agricultural revolution is needed there before a industrial one.
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Okay I get your logic but I think you also have to consider how finite our resources are. Like what has already been brought up by our supply of our bureaucrats, we can't focus our efforts everywhere in the country at once. Lanzhou and Beijing have the benefit of established infrastructure there and will be easier to build up. For the immediate future if we get Sichuan to handle our agricultural needs our efforts at industrializing the rest of the country will be easier. In terms of priority I'd rather focus on the capital and the Zhili territories with it's ports and the bulk of our industry. Until we've completed it's reconstruction Sichuan is too volatile at the moment.
 
Fireiy said:
Having the NRA in Sichuan does not solve the problem of not having enough competent administrators for both Sichuan and Guizhou though, which is the potential issue being raised here. Having the force of the NRA to crush the bandits and enforce our authority over the petty warlords will certainly be very useful there, but also trying to build up Guizhou's administration at the same time brings the risk of the reconstruction of their administration being even slower than it already will be.
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Competent administrators can be trained and hired.

In fact, to be entirely honest, we are a Revolutionary China in the Warlord Period, rebuilding from a war and lacking in funds. No matter what we do, we are going to be lacking in administrators.

Ideally we want Administrators that are:
1)Ideologically committed to the Revolution
2)Not too old, not too young
3)Loyal to the Party
4)Competent
5)Experienced.

And this being the revolutionary Warlord Period, competent isnt even necessarily the most important. We want 1) or 3), competency can be trained. Ultimately the most important thing is a talent pipeline to get more people to join our civil bureaucracy to staff our lands with committed revolutionaries.

This is not an issue that can be solved by playing timidly. Revolutionary Fervor is a necessary component. And by that I mean, having the army shoot landlords in the face, and break the feudal systems so that more people can and will be motivated to join us. Because we shot their landlords in the face.

Any remnants of the Feudal system we chose not to gundown is a long-term drag on the potential of our state and the developpement of talent pipeline for the next generation of dedicated civil workers for the revolution. We want the chinese people to believe that we mean every word we said, and that tearing down local feudal systems.
 
Kairos said:
Okay I get your logic but I think you also have to consider how finite our resources are. Like what has already been brought up by our supply of our bureaucrats, we can't focus our efforts everywhere in the country at once. Lanzhou and Beijing have the benefit of established infrastructure there and will be easier to build up. For the immediate future if we get Sichuan to handle our agricultural needs our efforts at industrializing the rest of the country will be easier. In terms of priority I'd rather focus on the capital and the Zhili territories with it's ports and the bulk of our industry. Until we've completed it's reconstruction Sichuan is too volatile at the moment.
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Beijing has the advantage of established infrastructure there and already being the most industrialized of our lands. It also has the disadvantage of being incredibly accessible to Japan and their puppet, so I would rather not concentrate our industrialization even further there. Lanzhou has been blown into ruins. It does possess the advantage of a foreign built rail connection to Zhili however. Sichuan is isolated, which is a mixed blessing and a curse. It won't be able to contribute to the rest of China as much with its industry, but it can be turned into a bastion. This is a question that can be revisited later though, as it seems we agree that focusing on agriculture in Sichuan right at this moment is the most important thing.
Deadly Snark said:
Competent administrators can be trained and hired.

In fact, to be entirely honest, we are a Revolutionary China in the Warlord Period, rebuilding from a war and lacking in funds. No matter what we do, we are going to be lacking in administrators.

Ideally we want Administrators that are:
1)Ideologically committed to the Revolution
2)Not too old, not too young
3)Loyal to the Party
4)Competent
5)Experienced.

And this being the revolutionary Warlord Period, competent isnt even necessarily the most important. We want 1) or 3), competency can be trained. Ultimately the most important thing is a talent pipeline to get more people to join our civil bureaucracy to staff our lands with committed revolutionaries.

This is not an issue that can be solved by playing timidly. Revolutionary Fervor is a necessary component. And by that I mean, having the army shoot landlords in the face, and break the feudal systems so that more people can and will be motivated to join us. Because we shot their landlords in the face.

Any remnants of the Feudal system we chose not to gundown is a long-term drag on the potential of our state and the developpement of talent pipeline for the next generation of dedicated civil workers for the revolution. We want the chinese people to believe that we mean every word we said, and that tearing down local feudal systems.
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Ultimately I suppose I am fine with trying to build a republican administration in Guizhou as well. As it has been pointed out in the discord, we will have some issues with the fact that the bureaucracy can only be staffed by KMT members but that is something that will be alleviated by us having allowed Liu Xiang and Feng to become a part of the KMT.
 
Local Developments. (1914)
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    • Zhili Provincial Government Reveals Ambitious Mass Literacy Plan;
    Chairman Li Declares 'War on Illiteracy'!

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    Published by Tianjin Daily News, Dated February 5th, 1914.

    Beijing — The latest session of the Zhili Congress of Soldiers' and Workers' Councils (Z-CSWC) has produced significant progress for the provincial administration at large, with the general peace and cooperation by the ruling Zhili Republican Front (ZRF) with opposition delegates, chiefly amongst the Guomindang (GMD) delegates chosen from the councils, allowing for speedy implementation of widespread labor reforms, much to the critical acclaim of the ZRF.

    Zhang Shizhao, an elected council representative and defacto leader of the more conciliatory Zhili GMD would comment on the remarkable progress achieved under the ZRF-GMD alliance, noting that, "the prosperity and progress of the Chinese people shall be our chief concern above party lines, and we are glad that Chairman Li (Referring to Li Dazhao, Chairman of the Z-CSWC and the ZRF) understands this as our main concern above all else."

    Indeed, it seems that the ambitious eyes of the Zhili Provincial Government turns now towards a mass drive to increase the abysmal literacy rates so often found in China amongst the poverty-stricken lower classes, as it seeks to continue its move away from the reactionary symbols of the past, one of them being, naturally, the deprivation of education by the bourgeois elite of China. Chairman Li has announced that the ZRF will be personally assisting in the drive with their own personnel and resources, noting that, "for our socialist democracy to succeed, a clear and distinct theoretical basis must be built to support it, or else we shall risk collapsing into the same opportunistic politics that plagued the rightist democracy of the former United States."

    In addition to this, the reactionary governor of Shanxi Province, General Yan Xishan, has made a public statement in support of the Zhili province's new campaign, offering his alleged full cooperation with the ZRF for the expansion of this new program. Whether or not this is the first page in the General's long path towards our way remains yet to be seen, but we shall keep a wary eye on further developments on this front...    ​
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    First Elections of the Guangdong Provincial Assembly Conclude;
    French Liberalism Guides China to Progress!

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    Published by L'Orient, Dated February 7th, 1914.

    Guangzhou — Continuing upon Napoleon IV's new slate of liberalizing reforms, the benevolent Bonaparte has graced France's vast imperial holdings, territories which lay across the world and with such vastness from the savagery of the Dark Continent, to the new possessions of Asia and finally the tropical islands of the Pacific, with a slate of new diktats to see through the vision laid forward by the Late Emperor Napoleon III of a kinder regime, civilizing the savagery of the colonies with that purest of ideals of France, democracy and the vote.

    Indeed, the new possessions of the Orient now see themselves granted the first step towards true civilization with the establishment of their very own provincial assembly, meant to assist the Governor-General's administration and as a means of representing themselves and their concerns, however backwards they may be, for the Indochinese Colonial Office. Guangdong is to serve as the first template for such a reform, an exemplar colonial territory as shown by its administration by the ever trustworthy Oriental general, Lu Rongting.

    The elections have shown a true dedication of the oriental peoples of Southern China to the spirit of democracy, with the Guangdong People's Party (GPP) founded by the aforementioned General Lu competing against the good-hearted but misguided opposition of the Chinese Nationalist Party (GMD), both sides engaging in spirited campaigning, though allegations of GMD violence against GPP would be widespread. In the end, General Lu's People's Party would manage to win a decisive mandate for his continued rule over the province, snatching up 77 of the 94 seats up for contest.

    Of the 17 remaining opposition members in the Guangdong Provincial Assembly, only 10 of them would be GMD members, with one of them, a certain Mr. Cheng from Haifeng, alleging that the GPP had tampered with the election results.

    We here in L'Orient's editorial room will keep our readers up to date on any possible developments on a later date...    ​
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    Other News Items​

    • Japanese Government Celebrates Six Months of Peace ; Rumors of Militarist Plot Put to Rest.​
    • Wu Peifu Attends Birthday of Zhang Zuolin's Third Son ; A Mend in Their Relationship?​
    • Jiangsu International Settlement Companies Announce Highest Profits since 1903 ; Xin Han to Enjoy Trickledown Benefits.​


    A/N: Trying something new, lmk what you think.
     
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    • A very nice more detailed look for matters closer to home. Well, I was already planning to take education next turn but this development with the ZRF makes it a even higher priority. Hopefully it even makes it more effective with the resources of the ZRF already committed to it. Yan Xishan's announcement of support for it is also interesting and a likely avenue for tying him closer to us, perhaps even integrating him into the republic properly.

    France is trying to give the image of democracy to their Chinese colonies now to keep dissent down while they're too busy with problems with their neighbors in Europe to take a more heavy handed approach. You can really feel the racism in it. They're also of course still using force to crack down on the KMT and tampering with the election results.

    In other news, looks like Japan has stabilized for now? The dual regents of the Qing remnants seems to have maybe reconciled. And it seems that the imperialist international settlement is making a lot of money.

    Anyway, here's the poll for this turn. Pick one option from each of the categories. Turn 7.2, Reconstruction. - Online Poll - StrawPoll
     
    Somewhat amused that as long as the divergence is within the late 1800's or sooner Yan Xishan will end up administering Shanxi if China ever explodes in a warring states period. And yeah, fixing Education just became a priority thanks to Zhili's project, hopefully they will synergize.

    One paragraph in to the French article and I already hate them. Speaking of KMT, do you think the Intelligence agency can expand their operations there? It would be a good way to indirectly support the Vietnamese if nothing else.

    The fact that Japan is celebrating 6 months of peace is noteworthy because of how bizarre such a thing is to me. And an attempted coup attempt, by the looks of it.

    The regents may have reconciled, or it could be them trying to make the appearance of a united front in public while business continues as usual in private.

    If anything else, the papers recording record profits while the people see little of them would radicalize them to a direction beneficial to the KMT.
     
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