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Shepard Quest Mk IV, Under New Management (ME/MCU)

Madfish said:
It might be worth doing for Future/'Unrealised' Quarters of the other sheets too since I for one at least keep having my eyes skip along lines when trying to read the charts especially when scrolling back and forth.
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I'll see what I can do. I know I have that problem occasionally.

So no dyslexic sentai team then? : (
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Sadly no. Although we should work on that.

Red - Revy
Black - Brian
Blue - Conrad
Yellow - Kasumi
Pink - Liara

Green - Leigon

....

What I grew up watching MMPR!

That said while Leigon fits Green perfectly can anyone think of a character that also fits and we're more likely to meet?

Oh wait! If we end up creating friendly AI we might end up getting contacted by the Geth earlier then canon. That way we could recruit Legion as an ambassador, although it would screw our chances for a good relationship with the Quarians.
Remember folks- think of the catgirls.
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Is that suppose to encourage us to science more or less?
 
UberJJK said:
Sadly no. Although we should work on that.

Red - Revy
Black - Brian
Blue - Conrad
Yellow - Kasumi
Pink - Liara

Green Zord - Legion
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Fixed

And introducing 'Cortana' as a useful Alpha 5.
UberJJK said:
Is that suppose to encourage us to science more or less?
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Depends on what you thing of catgirls and if science will solve your problem with them existing/not existing or god killing them.
 
Van Ropen said:
I hate going too far when putting real science into game science, but a little but of internal consistency isn't too much to ask for.

If those existed, kinetic barriers would no longer be enough of a defense for public figures, because anyone could just shoot through them - not enough to penetrate armor, but more than enough to kill an unarmored person. Hell, Revy's mother let her walk around with just a shield belt, do you think that would have happened if any gun could be firing shield-bypassing ammunition?

Repulsors as force beams makes way more sense given their observed effects...mostly...
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It tops out at 55% penetration, but the thing is that guns powerful enough to pop a barrier and kill the person under in one shot it exist even without particle gun mods. I'm pretty sure that a widow (or was it a black widow? Widowmaker? w/e) being an anti-material rifle and from observed in game effects could kill any political figure that didn't have good enough armor if they were using a shield belt/vest/etc. Arc-reactor upgraded shields may change this, esp as arc-reactor upgraded guns can't have much more power then existing guns due to recoil which was the main limit of gun power in the ME games.

I'd also have to point out that the 55% penetration is mostly for mobile or combat barriers, you do find in ME1 stationary hi power barrier that cheerfully block everything.

In addition that HP in ME? it has nothing to do with your armor, unless you use the right armor mods. Though you do start with those in ME2. Which leads to some odd damage calculations for ME weapons or health calculations for ME people. Though that is game mechanics.

Shields help but to prevent actual assassination attempt one needs to use the same tools we use now plus a bit of future tech. That is security teams intelligence teams, as well as weapons scanners and other stuff. Basically the reason political figures (or other people) don't get assassinated in ME is the same reason the president (or PM/dictator/etc) doesn't get assassinated (often).

And also those mods suck. Did anyone who played actually use them? I tried them but came to the conclusion that unless the other guy's shield regenerated mid fight they weren't useful, but I was playing a sniper build so that didn't happen to often.

@CrazyTom2.0 be carefull it! your close to the not a chan rules!

@UberJJK: Could you use conditional formatting? May have to have a cell for current turn, but that might be able to fix the issues.
 
Hoyr said:
I'm pretty sure that a widow (or was it a black widow? Widowmaker? w/e)
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M-98 Widow.

Three problems with your argument: Firstly, the Widow is actually badly affected by kinetic barriers. It's designed to punch through armor, not shields. Secondly, that's a state of the art Geth weapon, no one else is going to be running around with something like that. Thirdly, it's so powerful that the recoil from firing it maims the user. Legion's platform is purpose built around the thing and Shepard was rebuilt to be able to absorb more punishment than a Krogan Battlemaster. So, no. guns powerful enough to render personal shields obsolete are not a thing yet and won't be for a very long time.
 
Stroth said:
Do they have any better sniper rifles? No? Then it's still state of the art. Doesn't matter how old it is.
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The Javelin?

Also the HMWSR X would probably be comparable.

Not to mention your statement is patently false, unless you define the metrics you're using that say the M-98 is better. Certainly its the most powerful sniper rifle available, but its also the heaviest and is virtually unusable by pretty much everybody. Which tells me they basically just stuffed a fuck-off huge mass effect core and into it and said fuck it.

The M-92 Incisor used 3 round bursts, and the M-97 Viper was semi-automatic. In a lot of situations either might be preferable to the M-98 Widow. Not to mention the Mantis is at least usable by a significant portion of the armed forces and isn't that much weaker than the Widow.

Today there exists a .90 calibur rifle. Its probably the most powerful rifle in existence. But no one considers it state of the art.

Its the exact same way with the Widow. State of the art has as much to do with feasibility as it does with overall power.
Van Ropen said:
Please, don't remind me.
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Why? I mean mass effect technology hasn't improved so much in the past 200 years. So they just took the biggest mass effect core they could, put it in with the biggest power source they could and called it a day. And no one did anything bigger because no one could be bothered to make a weapon more unusable than the Widow.
 
Tabron89 said:
I know that they designed and built 'Thanix Missiles' that was Ground Armour mounted, but I thought the 'Javelin missile' was Fighter/Frigate mounted and used intense spacetime distortions to decay KBs and tear the ship apart and was meant to be used in pairs to create a resonance reaction to increase the damage even further?
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We're talking about sniper rifles, not missiles.

The Javelin we're talking about is a Geth designed and built sniper rifle that works similar to the Thanix cannon.

There are however ALSO Javelin missiles which are the missiles you're talking about. And there are Thanix missiles that show up at the end of ME3.
 
Tabron89 said:
I know that they designed and built 'Thanix Missiles' that was Ground Armour mounted, but I thought the 'Javelin missile' was Fighter/Frigate mounted and used intense spacetime distortions to decay KBs and tear the ship apart and was meant to be used in pairs to create a resonance reaction to increase the damage even further?
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Javelin missiles are disrupter torpedoes. Javelin rifles are Geth made sniper weapons based on the same principles as a thanix cannon (A stream of magneticly accelerated ferrofluild, rather than mass effect driven bit of metal). I'm not sure why they screwed up the names like that, but it is confusing, yeah.
 
Stroth said:
Three problems with your argument: Firstly, the Widow is actually badly affected by kinetic barriers. It's designed to punch through armor, not shields. Secondly, that's a state of the art Geth weapon, no one else is going to be running around with something like that. Thirdly, it's so powerful that the recoil from firing it maims the user. Legion's platform is purpose built around the thing and Shepard was rebuilt to be able to absorb more punishment than a Krogan Battlemaster. So, no. guns powerful enough to render personal shields obsolete are not a thing yet and won't be for a very long time.
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Okay I picked the Widow because it was the only sniper rifle I could remember of the top of my head. Plenty of other guns in both the ME1 era and the ME2/3 era can do one shot kills though shields unless the target has strong armor or high health. I remember doing it all the damn time playing a sniper! Hell even the M-92 Mantis, in the ME2/3 era, (which is used by freaking police forces!) which does 263.1 points of damage vs the Widow's 368.3 can do it. In the hands of a well trained sniper the Mantis goes up to ~600-770 points of damage per shot and that using the lowball numbers. Enough to punch though barriers and murder most any one. For comparison a level 2 infiltrator has 250 shield points. MMmmm... disruptor ammo'd Mantis how I loved you, well until your sex older sister Widow showed up. Also the Widow and Mantis are not badly effected by shields. They have a nice x1.0 multiplier for both shields and barriers, it just that compared to the x1.5 for armor it isn't as good.

Other have ninja'd me on the me 1 era stuff. Those guns could scale to 900 points of damage or more once one included the skill of the firer (top guns base damage ranged in the ~200-300 point range). For comparison a level 2 soldier has about 112 HP and about the same shield strength depending on armor. I wish that more of the stats were available because I'd love to do a "how easily can you kill your self" breakdown for the ME games.

Single shot though the shield is a thing in ME even in the ME1 era, HE pistols for the win! Well unless you played on insane all the time then I can't comment as I never played on that level.

Damn it I need to dig up my endgame ME files so I can look at them. May take a few weeks for me to find them even if I remember. Anyone else got end game stats for HP/Shields?

Edit: for some clarification I'm more interested in the idea that an existing ME weapon can punch though a barrier that isn't generated by heavy armor (like a shield belt/vest) and kill an unarmored person underneath. It is entirely possible to have a heavy armored soldier in the ME games that can't be one shot but a sniper with a good gun. Basically the option of assassinating a political figure. As that's what started this conversation.

Edit2: more clerification
 
Tabron89 said:
*Snip*
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ME1 has particle weapons all ready in the form of weapon mods, shields are only around 55% effective on the top ones. Another person pointed out that if those existed that one could easily pull off assassinations (and possibly thus break the setting) and I was countering that weapons with the power to brute force their way past the shield with one shot already existed so the presence of particle weapons wasn't much of an issue as counter-assassination methods would already be prepared for shield popping weapons. Well save for the fact it put that power into any weapon and was reasonably affordable.

I'm not interested in making assassination tech, I'm saying its already there.
 
The Widow is either quarian design or they were bought from somewhere, since it was present even before the Geth started to build its own weapon.

Also it is is powerful enough to pierce most military grade personal kinetic barriers.

The Javelin rifle, which is an actual Geth weapon is basically a portable Thanix cannon.
 
HE ammo. *firm nod* couple of rail extentions + HE ammo on high power ME1 sniper rifles = more damage per shot than the Mako's main cannon. I recall being told that, in practice, double rail extension Should cause the gun to be unuseable due to recoil or somesuch, but it's still awesome. (At a guess? Impact wrecks shields, explosion kills target.)
Edit: oh, and the Insane sudden over heat would probably cause the gun to explode.
 
S1lverhair said:
given that ME already has fusion torches and andtiproton engines for main drives they wouldn't be particularly useful there
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I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Repulsors can generate a surprising amount of thrust and when you consider the relative mass and volume compared to a fusion torch I wouldn't be surprised if they could replace them. Especially since a fusion torch kind of requires a fusion reactor something which we're replacing with arc reactors.
I don't think the matierial of a large calibre mass driver is actually that important outside of the efficiency that it can get in the acceleration process, these thing have an energy density in the sime kind of regeion as nucular weapons, cost even less so. the largest cost of firing a dreaddie's main gun is likely going to be the fuel expended to concentrate and focus that kind of energy followed by the wear and tear on the reactors. the actual price of the 20Kg slug likely comes in at 10-15th, especially given the amount of asteroid/low gravity moon deposits that you'd have access to. add to that the kinds of mechanical stresses that you are going to be putting the projectile under and I have serious doubts that anything more complex than 'solid lump of homogenous superconductor' is possible for use as ammo.

also given the energy density of the ammo the material that it is made of will have minimal effect on it's impact characteristics.
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We know that a dreadnought can produce at minimum 81,003,125,000,000W or 81TW since that is what is required to power it's main gun. That requires 390 grams of Helium-3 be burn at 100% efficiency. All things considered it's unlikely that energy wise it's expensive to operate the main-gun and while we don't know for sure I again doubt reactor wear is a serious concern.

Either way both of those issues would have already been elminated by the time we're putting super-repulsors on dreadnaughts since we'd also be putting super Arc-Reactors (Either two or more Industrial (40TW) Arc Reactors or one even larger scaler one).

As for the stresses:

800 = 0.5at^t
4,025,000 = at

800 = 0.5*4,025,000*t
t = 800/2,012,500
t = 0.0003975 seconds

4,025,000 = a * 0.0003975

a = 4,025,000/0.0003975
a = 10,125,786,164m/s/s
a = 1,032,190,231 gees

Well. That's quite impressive. Over a billion gravities of acceleration. I mean there is modern day military equipment that can handle a hundred thousand gravities but...

Well maybe something like Future! solid-state electronics could handle it but yeah...
 
S1lverhair said:
fair.

but I was under the impression that ME made fusion power stupidly easy because the mass effect allows you to harvest the kinetic energy of neutrons as well as using magnetic fields to harvest the kinetic energy of charged particles. furthurmore using the mass efffect fields for lensing should let you trap EM radiation (a la singularity) increasing the efficiency of the reaction even furthur. arc reactors are such a big deal because they are impossibly (COMIC BOOK SCIENCE) more efficient, scaleable and powerful.
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Care to explain where you got that impression from? Because I didn't get it. Really it seems that for, whatever reason, most applications of mass effect fields are the straight forward ones rather then complicating stuff.

Honestly the impression I got was that they used a mass effect field to contain the reaction and that was about it.
as far as I knew ME fusion torches were basicly just fusion reactors with one end you could open which could be modulated with ME fields and magnetics. the exhaust velocity from something like that more than likely exceeds that we could get from repulsors and in more likely even more fuel (reaction mass) efficient.

the antiproton thrusters even more so.
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We really can't say for exhaust velocity since we don't know the particle speed (for the weird particle beam repuslor) or how the kinetic energy repulsor works but going by what I remember from Iron Man and Comic Book Logic in general I wouldn't be surprised if we could get near light speed (if not light speed) exhaust velocities out of them.

But while that's debatable I challenge the very idea that the fusion torches could possibly be more efficient. Arc Reactor's basically produce energy Ex-Nihilo and Repulsors convert that energy either perfectly or near perfectly into kinetic energy.
given that the subject is how to push around a multimillion ton starship I doubt that the mass of the engines is actually that relevant to manoeuvrability given that we are comparing technologies which may or may not (because arseloads of technobabble) be in the same kind of ballpark.
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I wasn't talking about maneuverability.

Lets say the Dreadnaught can fit a thousand ton engine system. Because the Repulsor is smaller and lower mass then a fusion torch you can fit a lot more Repulsor into your mass budget then you can fusion torch.

So even if they both produce the same thrust because the Repulsor is smaller you can fit a-bigger/more Repulsor/s on your ship then you can a fusion torch.
 
Van Ropen said:
What.

We are designing a vehicle, not a ship. If the Alliance wants a frigate to have a complement of drones to support its IFV, that is fine - why would we start building drones into the vehicle? Especially when, as you noted, it takes up space inside the vehicle whose primary purpose is to carry infantry and support them in battle? It already has a sensor suite built in, that is a given - I don't understand at all how several drones would somehow take up less space than that.
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Could be useful for low profile scouting, but that wouldn't be an IFV. Maybe come up with a model that has personnel harnesses that can be easily swapped out for drone racks? Probably not much call for that sort of thing.
 
Van Ropen said:
The drones could be useful, yeah, but why not just launch them from whatever ship/base you are at in the first place? We don't need a dedicated vehicle for them. I don't see why you couldn't just throw one into the standard Tiger (...is that what we were gonna call it?) in the place of a soldier if you really wanted to.

I suppose normally operational range would be the problem, but we have Arc Reactors essentially providing unlimited power.
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in canon the Mako has drone varients.

also if we're just talking a recon drone couldn't we make something shaped like a disk that magneticly clamps to the roof of the IFV when not in use?
 
I also don't see why we would have to take up space on the mako for the drones; It is a IFV, it isn't supposed to be designed to hold drones as Van Ropen said.

Again, these all fly. They can just float along after us. Heck, given that the turrets at the first colony of ME2 still have power to come float at us while on combat mode for at least a few hours, speaks that even current batteries can power the standard type for a pretty long time, and the arc reactor means they should be able to go days straight without refuel or maintenance.

Besides, imagine the benefits of using some drones around your extremely maneuverable IFV to be able to see things in third person at will?
 
Amberion said:
Drones can also be used for point defense, to interdict incoming fire, shoot down missiles, and with their arc reactor powered kinetic barriers, can provide a beefy cover shield.
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They're also expensive as fuck, especially if you're using them as ablative shielding.
 
Although I enjoy the idea of seeing a geth colossus and shouting: "Meat-shields Assemble!" And have the build a wall between us and the colossus while the infantry flee tactically retreat to somebody with a rocket-launcher.
 
Carrnage said:
To be clear the drone i am envisioning likely wouldn't be heavily armored at all and their primary defense is their extreme mobility and dodging heavy fire.
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A biotic would be able to swat that like a fly. You need rigid heavy armor or mass effect generated shields for when someone decides that gravity is about to murder you.
 
Yeah, i don't see any reason for drones to come standard as part of the standard IFV.

Please do not turn this into a (Bradley, was it?).
Very effective combat vehicle, massively over budget, missed it's completion deadline by a mile, and completely hopeless at most/all the roles it was actually intended for when they started. (Started life as an APC, ended up as basically a tank destroyer. A stupidly effective tank destroyer, admittedly.)
 
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