Rule The Waves 3 - A Graphical Experiment

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Ordnance Developments
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    • Adhoc vote count started by 4WheelSword on Mar 27, 2024 at 8:57 AM, finished with 9 posts and 9 votes.
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    What is the Navies position on these new weapons? There are interesting, but little more than a curiosity. We should commission a handful for testing.
    What should we build? New armoured cruisers, of similar intent.


    The first four submarines ever commissioned by the Marine Nationale - barring a few truly experimental pieces - are laid down. The four boats of the Plongeur-class will be used for developing concepts relating to the new method of war. At 200-tons displacement each (at least, when submerged) they will be the smallest boats in the fleet, though given each of them carry four torpedoes in external drop collars, they may well be the most dangerous boats per ton. Hopefully they will only prove so to our enemies and not to their crews.
    ​

    Meanwhile, the Conde-class of Armoured Cruisers are designed and slips are prepared for the construction of several of the type. These will be the largest cruisers ever produced by the Marine Nationale at 12,000 tons displacement and carry a vicious armament of four 240mm guns (paired fore and aft) and eight 194mm guns in dual mount turrets both port and starboard. A further battery of 100mm guns will be fitted to ward away small ships such as torpedo boats. These ships will be very capable of engaging the largest cruisers afloat with little concern for receiving any damages.
    ​

    Four ships are laid down in January, the Conde, Tourville, Colbert and Algerie. While it will take two years for them to be completed, these ships will be the queens of the oceans come 1904. We have also finally laid down a flotilla of the previously designed Carabinier-class torpedo boat destroyers to accompany them. Of note is that this year also marked the celebration of a deepening of the relationship between our nation and that distant land of Japan. Our yards are building their next three ironclads, the so-called 'Setsu' class of battleships. At more than 16,000 tons displaced and with French built 305mm guns fore and aft, these excellent ships will be finished around the same time as the Conde-class.
    ​

    Meanwhile, the Austro-Hungarian Empires representatives approach us with a proposition; a five-year security arrangement that would see them joining our global alliance and ensuring the safety of yet another see passage. With the Pacific and Atlantic secured, it only makes sense to add the Mediterranean to our extended network of responsibilities. Plus, the Austrians are extending this hand over fears of Italian attack, and what better way for us to strike out at our rivals... Unfortunately, before the alliance can be signed, protests from the Japanese and the Americans derail the negotiations and we do not end up formalising our arrangements.

    A new method of winding guns has been discovered by the government arsenal in the process of building the the weapons for the Conde and her sisters. The old guns had an accurate range of about 10,000 metres with about 130mm of armour penetration at five kilometres, while the newer guns shoot a kilometre further, and achieve the same armour penetration at seven kilometres, rising to 160mm at five kilometres. While it will not be ready in time to arm those cruisers, these new 240mm guns will be ready for use on other ships in the future and hopefully the method will be transferrable to other calibres soon enough.
    ​

    The Austrians and the Italians are, once again, at war. If we find a way in, we may be able to strike at the Kingdom of Italy, but it's likely we will simply be forced to watch. Nonetheless, the Mediterranean squadrons begin active patrols to ensure the safety of French shipping in the face of this active conflict.

    Meanwhile, the first four submarines in the Marine Nationale are commissioned and we immediately lay down a further three, incorporating lessons learned during construction of the previous class. The additional of a second, inner hull will improve the diving depth of the boat, while a collapsible periscope of the kind invented by Simon Lake will be fitted to improve submerged mobility. The Gymnote-class will be slower but enjoy significantly increased range over the Plongeur and carry the same four torpedoes in Drzewiecki drop collars.

    Elsewhere in the world we interfere in the British occupation of Celebes and Molucas, organising an international expedition of French, Japanese and American ships to 'observe' their actions. The squadrons of the Royal Navy withdraw under a cloud, raising tensions but combatting British imperialism further.

    Twelve months after the laying down of the Conde-class, the decision is made to take the enhancements developed since their design and apply them to the class on new hulls. The Edgar Quinet and her sister will be four-hundred tons smaller but, using the new types of engines and guns, will be capable of the same things and fit an extra pair of torpedo tubes below the waterline. This development is followed shortly after by the improvements applied to the 240mm gun also be applied to the 203mm gun, the main armament of the Amiral Aube-class. the Leon Gambetta-class and the Duqeuesne-class armoured cruisers that were previously our most advanced cruisers. This raises a question - when they inevitably enter refit, should they receive these new guns?

    Our current guns as built by the ordnance yards in Cherbourg, Trieste and Toulouse.​

    The 8 inch question: Should older cruisers get new guns?
    [ ] Yes, and as soon as possible. bring them in for refit early.
    [ ] Yes, but only when they would usually come in for refit.
    [ ] No, they are fine as they are and do not require an expensive new battery.
    We should be considering the focus of our research. Pick one of the following to focus on:
    [ ] Machinery and Light Forces - Speed and Elan
    [ ] Armour and Hull construction - Survivability and Resistance
    [ ] Turret and Ship Design - Construction and Capability
    [ ] Torpedoes and Submarines - The attack from stealth
    [ ] If you know the game, feel free to write in two options as a combination.
     
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    • [X] Yes, but only when they would usually come in for refit.
    [X] Turret and Ship Design - Construction and Capability
     
    [X] Yes, and as soon as possible. bring them in for refit early.

    Lethality's important

    [X] Torpedoes and Submarines - The attack from stealth

    Submarines are exactly our jam. Makes sense to invest in them further. Torpedos also proved very useful in the last war
     
    [X] Yes, but only when they would usually come in for refit.

    The performance improvements are excellent, but not enough to justify having major units out of service with a war on our doorstep.

    [X] Light Forces and Torpedoes

    The advancement of the destroyer.
     
    Does Britain have any alliances that we know of? An Anglo-Russo-German alliance is currently haunting my nightmates.
     
    [X] Yes, but only when they would usually come in for refit.
    [X] Turret and Ship Design - Construction and Capability
    I like performance as much as the next guy, but I'm still concerned about the budget. Not concerned enough to stop me wanting to beat the noisy neighbors to making the first Dreadnaught though!
     
    [X] Yes, but only when they would usually come in for refit.

    They old turrets are still functional; no need to spend additional money to replace them early.

    [X] Torpedoes and Submarines - The attack from stealth

    Jeune Ecole has been proven right, and we must continue to invest all we have into it!
     
    [X] Yes, but only when they would usually come in for refit.
    [X] Turret and Ship Design - Construction and Capability
     
    The Terrible Bulldog
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    • Adhoc vote count started by 4WheelSword on Mar 28, 2024 at 5:27 AM, finished with 10 posts and 8 votes.
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    Should older cruisers get new guns? Yes, but only when they would usually come in for refit.
    Pick one of the following to focus on: Turret and Ship Design - Construction and Capability, Torpedoes and Submarines - The attack from stealth


    It is March of 1903 and tensions are running high in Europe and abroad. The British continue to stare malevolently at our cruiser force, concerned presumably about their effect on the domination of the Royal Navy. The Russian Tsar looms over the people of Germany, loudly proclaiming their execution of the deposed Kaiser to have been a tyrannical act of the petit proles. Spain is also hungering for the return of Gibraltar, and other territories besides, that have long since fallen to the English. And in the centre of it al, nobody is friends with Italy.
    ​

    A third Edgar Quinet is laid down in May following negotiations with the yards to provide additional work to the shipbuilders there. The Waldeck-Rousseau, named for one of the great men of the third republic, will be just as capable as her sisters and, according to promises, finished in record time. But our ship builders are not the only ones looking to recent history for inspiration. A new cohort of young officers, emboldened by the actions of their predecessors from a decade before, have proposed blowing up a British ship at anchor in the Mediterranean. They are, of course, given permission to attempt it - what better way to remove one of those brutish ironclads from the game board.

    The first conceptualisations of centralised fire control system came some years ago, during the first Italo-Austrian war. There a captain used a system of electric lights to attempt to ensure that all guns of a single battery were fired simultaneously and on the same point in the ships pitch and roll. This improved spotting and thus accuracy somewhat, but it is only in recent months that a reliable method of achieving this system has been formulated. Using a calculation table and a set of electric triggers in the fire control room, accuracy can be improved further still over local gun laying and firing. This method will certainly be applied to all ships going forwards, including our new Armoured Cruisers.

    An example of a modern fire control computer, the 'Dreyer' table.​

    Success is reported by our foolish, noble young agents. While they did not succeed in catching an ironclad in port, the protected cruiser Amphitrite is now resting at the bottom of the shallow harbour in Malta. Just a few years old, the ship was one of the largest of her type with 9,100 tons displaced when she was on the surface. Even better, the British seem to think it was simply an accident in shell handling and have called it a national tragedy.

    A crisis in Africa! An uprising in East Africa has left several French nationals stranded and requiring of safe passage home, as well as leaving our interests in need of protection. The Armee de Terre has already begun readying a regiment of cavalry to be transported to the region, and we decide to escort them with a squadron of our finest cruisers. Unfortunately, the British see this mobilisation and assume the worst - that a landing in England is planned. Diplomats attempt to diffuse the situation, but to little avail. After days of tense and furious negotiations, it is decided that the only settlement that can be reached is to settle things on the battlefield.
    ​

    An overview of the fleets at the beginning of the war:
    - We maintain just fourteen ironclads, though with our allies this rises to forty-four, while the Royal Navy has forty-eight.
    - We have near equality in armoured cruisers, with twenty-five in service compared to the British thirty, even before our allies are factored into the equation. We can also generally rely on our modern cruisers being generally superior to the British ones.
    - We have thirty-three protected cruisers of various types and the Royal Navy has forty-seven. Another area where we will have to lean on our allies, as with them our numbers rise to sixty in service.
    - The British maintain a massive fleet of torpedo boats and destroyers, though these are spread all over the world and do not benefit from the concentration we maintain in the Atlantic. They also have a single submarine, which is of little concern.

    A few indecisive engagements mark the first days of the way, as cruiser squadrons jockey for advantageous positions without wishing to engage directly. All four Duquesne-class cruisers are given order to engage in raiding in the Atlantic and the North Sea, as are several other ships. If there is any way to win this war, it will be by starving the island state and not by meeting them in open battle.

    The Islande meets one of the newest British armoured cruisers, a Black Prince, on a cloudy day in September in the Bay of Biscay. With her engines acting temperamentally, the 10,000 ton cruiser is only able to make 18 knots, but nonetheless Captain Luc orders best speed and moves to engage. Meeting at just after half part 5 in the evening, the Islande turns away with the intent of maintaining the range, but the Black Prince quickly closes in. At under 5,000 metres, it is the heavy 203mm guns of the Islande against the massed 6" guns of the British ship. Unfortunately, it is not long before dusk falls and all the 203mm turrets on the Islande are knocked out of action. By the time night sets across the bay, the cruiser is aflame, though fortunately the darkness allows the ship to escape and put the fire out without the threat of enemy attack.

    HMS Black Prince at Sea​

    Another passing clash comes at a quarter past nine at night, the Islande limping away and spotting the British at short range. The ship makes for Brest, but an unexploded shell buried deep in her hull explodes, jostled by damage control parties, and at 2am fire forces the crew to abandon ship and leave her to sink.

    October is marked by a vicious battle at night in the channel, some of our oldest armoured cruisers along with significant torpedo equipped forces brawling with the British at under three kilometres. As the sun rose, it was found that we had lost a single torpedo boat to their two, and the Jeanne d'Arc, which had taken a torpedo hit, had managed to limp back to port despite the damage.

    We briefly consider seizing the three Japanese battleships that are nearing completion but we dismiss the idea on two counts. First, that paying for their fitting out isn't within our current budget and, second, that we would prefer the Japanese join the war and frustrate the British in the far east. The Chasseloup-Laubat pays the price for our allies slow entry into the war, as the light cruiser is caught and sunk by a pair of British ships prepared to protect their merchants.

    The unusually rear-heavy Conde completing her fitting out in Cherbourg.​

    December 1903
    Things are complicated. Our war chest is quickly being spent, and our cruiser forces are fairing poorly despite their per unit superiority over the British. A rolling blockade is transferring back and forth between the British and French coasts and our diplomats around the globe are on the verge of demanding our allies join us.
    If we are given the option of peace, how should we take it?
    [ ] We wish to win this war, not simply creep back to port with our tail between our legs.
    [ ] If we are offered white peace, we must take it. This was a war we didn't want.
    [ ] We should take any peace we can, no matter the circumstances.
    We have submarines, but what is our doctrine for their use?
    [ ] They should train to support the fleet in action, engaging before or after a battle.
    [ ] They should obey the cruiser rules, and give due warning before sinking and civilian vessel.
    [ ] They should attack British ships whenever and wherever possible, with no regard to the so called 'rules of war'
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] If we are offered white peace, we must take it. This was a war we didn't want.

    In a naval war against the British survival is enough. If we somehow beat them enough that they're willing to give us stuff then the beating we gave them is reward enough anyway.

    [X] They should train to support the fleet in action, engaging before or after a battle.

    Less sure about this one, but I'd like to grab any edge we can in actual battles
     
    [X] If we are offered white peace, we must take it. This was a war we didn't want.
    [X] They should train to support the fleet in action, engaging before or after a battle.
     
    [X] If we are offered white peace, we must take it. This was a war we didn't want.
    [X] They should train to support the fleet in action, engaging before or after a battle.

    As much as it cuts against the grain to not at least go for cruiser rules, our submarines are short-ranged and not capable of the long cruising needed for proper raiding. Ideally they should sortie either with or before the fleet, not to fight into direct support, but to lurk outside British bases and catch them as they return.
     
    [X] If we are offered white peace, we must take it. This was a war we didn't want.
    [X] They should obey the cruiser rules, and give due warning before sinking and civilian vessel.
     
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    [X] If we are offered white peace, we must take it. This was a war we didn't want.

    A white peace alone would signify a great victory and establish the Marine Nationale as an equal to the Royal Navy, once the sole hegemon of the seas.

    [X] They should train to support the fleet in action, engaging before or after a battle.

    Not even a battleship can properly detect a submarine underwater. If we play our cards right, these tiny microbes can certainly slay giants.
     
    [X] If we are offered white peace, we must take it. This was a war we didn't want.
    [X] They should obey the cruiser rules, and give due warning before sinking and civilian vessel.
     
    [X] If we are offered white peace, we must take it. This was a war we didn't want.
    [X] They should train to support the fleet in action, engaging before or after a battle.

    I really want to slap the UK around, especially as we have a good alliance to do so, but I'm not hopeful we'll achieve it. Few years too early. Hopefully, if we do manage to pull off victories, we'll get something better than white peace anway.
     
    [x] We wish to win this war, not simply creep back to port with our tail between our legs.
    [X] They should train to support the fleet in action, engaging before or after a battle.
     
    [X] If we are offered white peace, we must take it. This was a war we didn't want.
    [X] They should train to support the fleet in action, engaging before or after a battle.

    This is not going well so far. Their battleline is superior, and our cruisers are not proving as superior as we had hoped.
     
    A Brutal Peace New
  • Threadmarks
    • Adhoc vote count started by 4WheelSword on Mar 29, 2024 at 9:34 AM, finished with 10 posts and 9 votes.
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    If we are given the option of peace, how should we take it? If we are offered white peace, we must take it. This was a war we didn't want.
    We have submarines, but what is our doctrine for their use? They should train to support the fleet in action, engaging before or after a battle.


    January of 1904 dawns, a new year and a new chance for progress, but also new challenges. Our new Gymnote-class of submarines arrive, but almost immediately one is lost at sea while on shakedown exercises. Whether through enemy action or technical fault we don't know, but we have just six submarines now. The Japanese have agreed to join the war against the British, but the Americans are still nowhere to be seen. We fought a successful action in the channel, but it was fundamentally indecisive. If the year keeps up like this it will be nothing but back and forth.

    The Conde and the Tourville join the fleet and enter a three month working up period before they are ready for detached operations. We also gain access to better 130mm guns, as the arsenals continue to develop new methods. The first Japanese ships arrive in Northern Europe, a group of unremarkable torpedo boats which promise greater things to come. The Colbert and the Algerie also join the fleet, rounding out the 8th cruiser division with their giant hulls and strong combined batteries.

    ​
    The bad news kept coming. During a merchant protection action, the Leon Gambetta was set ablaze and burned so badly her crew had no choice but to abandon her. Despite the loss of the lead ship and the squadrons commanding officer, Captain Letellier, Captain Lestrange of the Jules Ferry maintained his ship in action until night fell some six hours later and saved the merchants running for St. Nazaire. He will be rewarded for his actions, even as we mourn the loss of a ship and her officers and crew.

    Peace comes in March as we seek a gentle return to cordial relations and the British decide they are not content with that. First, they tear up our global alliance of nations, shredding the treaties that linked the Republics of France and the United States as well as those that tied the Japanese to our aims. Next, they decide that Iceland and Madagascar will both be better maintained under the iron gauntlet of the British Empire, rather than French liberationist mindsets. Finally, they spit on us further by taking two of our finest new cruisers, the Algerie (renamed HMS Amphitrite) and the Tourville (which will become HMS Canberra).

    Always the biggest slice for the Bulldog.​

    This war lasted six months and has significant lessons for us to learn from, even as we reel from the peace treaty negotiated by the cowards in government.

    What lessons do we learn? Select 2:
    [ ] The small armoured cruiser is pointless compared to the massive ships now being built. We should conduct a massive scrap-and-build program going forwards.
    [ ] The armoured cruiser of the future will be larger than any ironclad and far quicker as well. We should experiment with new ship designs.
    [ ] This war was conducted by cruisers, but the British maintained a blockade with Ironclads. We must build modern Ironclads to break such a blockade.
    [ ] Fast protected cruisers are the lifeblood of trade protection, but they are pointless if they cannot catch a torpedo boat. Faster!
    [ ] Fast protected cruisers are all well and good, but if they cannot resist enemy guns what are they for? More armour!
    [ ] Torpedo boats demonstrate their utility over and over again. More!
    [ ] Submarines have the potential to slip through a blockade in the future. We should always be building a handful to ensure steady progress of technology.
    [ ] Write-in

    Sorry for the short update but, uhhhhhhhh Big Changes!
    Note that the economy isn't actually very damaged by the peace treaty, so we have good money for rebuilding.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • [x] This war was conducted by cruisers, but the British maintained a blockade with Ironclads. We must build modern Ironclads to break such a blockade.
    [x] Submarines have the potential to slip through a blockade in the future. We should always be building a handful to ensure steady progress of technology.
     
    [x] This war was conducted by cruisers, but the British maintained a blockade with Ironclads. We must build modern Ironclads to break such a blockade.
    [x] Submarines have the potential to slip through a blockade in the future. We should always be building a handful to ensure steady progress of technology.
     
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