Restitutor Orbis: A Quest of the Roman Empire

[X] The Western Front

[X] The Pretender in Gaul
[X] The Spanish Dilemma
--[X] Funds
[X] The Fealty of a King
--[X] Settlement
[X] An Eastern Ally
[X] The men have begun to complain of light rations, a result of no longer having the apparatus of the Roman army to feed them. You dip into your personal funds to see to it their bellies are full for the next week or so. (-12,000 denarii)
[X] You dispatch letters to all competing emperors proclaiming your mercy -- if they lay down their arms and surrender, you will suffer them and their families to live. A bit arrogant, for a man with two legions to his name, but empires are built on arrogance.
[X] You take time out of your day to eat in the mess with your men, as a common commander. You have not forgotten where you came from. You will never forget, and they will love you for it.
 
[X] Plan Bold Strokes
-[X] The Pretender in Gaul
-[X] The Spanish Dilemma
--[X] Funds
-[X] The Fealty of a King
--[X] Settlement
-[X] An Eastern Ally
-[X] Feed the Men Ourselves
-[X] Pressure the Tax Collectors
-[X] Visit the Sibyl
 
[X] Plan Firm Foundations
-[X] Take Mediolanum
-[X] The Spanish Dilemma:
--[X] Funds: (-450,000 denarii)
-[X] The Praetorians
--[X] Moderate Funding: (-400,000 denarii)
-[X] An Eastern Ally
-[X] Visit the Sibyl
-[X] Feed the Men Ourselves
-[X] Eat With The Men
 
[X] Plan Firm Foundations
-[X] Take Mediolanum
-[X] The Spanish Dilemma:
--[X] Funds: (-450,000 denarii)
-[X] The Praetorians
--[X] Moderate Funding: (-400,000 denarii)
-[X] An Eastern Ally
-[X] Visit the Sibyl
-[X] Feed the Men Ourselves
-[X] Eat With The Men
 
So basically, my plan is to secure Spain and try to nail down Italia, in the hopes of drawing reinforcements from Rome and around Mediolanum while flipping Spain to our side, hoping to build up enough strength to take Domitianus. If the coup in Rome succeeds, we gain prestige and troops may flock to us as an alternative to Aurelian.

The competing plan is to cut loose of Italia entirely and march off into Gaul and Spain, planning to find a base of operations there.
 
So i think the two main options are "consolidating Italy" or "striking west"; and so far all proposed plans are variants of that.

My feelings are leaving Italy to fend for itself.

Already with only two legions, there is disease and hunger. Barbarians are roaming around.

Ill omens is what this area sounds plagued by.

Even if the establishment is successful, I don't see that the strategic advantages of a central position would compensate for the number of challengers in all directions, Domitianus in the west, Victorinus in the north, Quintilus in the South and Aurelian in the east.
This is why my plan advocates for knocking out one of the challengers now and beginning a very short sharp campaign against Domitianus as soon as possible. It's just that in Turn One we can only target one guy at a time.

From both an in-character and meta-narrative point of view, I see a man of Carthaginian origin never choosing to do businness with Romans like the praetorian guard *spit* or the viper senators *double spit*. I think the more he can take over Rome without depending on Rome, the happier he'd be.
It's been nearly 500 years since the fall of Carthage; I don't think Synnodus is holding grudges against Rome at this point.

From a strict strategic point of view of "what powerbase we got the next turn", Southern Gaul plus Hispania is superior to Northern Italy.
I'm not sure we'll be as secure in southern Gaul as you make us out to be...
 
[X] Plan Firm Foundations
-[X] Take Mediolanum
-[X] The Spanish Dilemma:
--[X] Funds: (-450,000 denarii)
-[X] The Praetorians
--[X] Moderate Funding: (-400,000 denarii)
-[X] An Eastern Ally
-[X] Visit the Sibyl
-[X] Feed the Men Ourselves
-[X] Eat With The Men
 
[X] Plan Firm Foundations
-[X] Take Mediolanum
-[X] The Spanish Dilemma:
--[X] Funds: (-450,000 denarii)
-[X] The Praetorians
--[X] Moderate Funding: (-400,000 denarii)
-[X] An Eastern Ally
-[X] Visit the Sibyl
-[X] Feed the Men Ourselves (-12,000 denarii)
-[X] Eat With The Men
 
We're not underestimating her. She's in the best position to take Egypt, the breadbasket of the Empire. If she can manage to appease the Sassanids she will have the run of the entire east. We can afford to be friendly to her because there is simply no way or reason for us to challenge her at this point. She's simply too far from us as compared to the other pretenders.
I mean Aurelian can defeat her because he is the best general and have greatest army in OTL but I don't think we have that advantage.

We are Tywin Lannister and she will have more gold than us when she take control of Egypt.

I actually want to lure Aurelian to kick her ass instead of doing it ourselves thought.

Let's Aurelian face with her intrigue and assassin.

"You should not trust me because I am dishonest" is the same speech as Littlefinger.

See what happen when Ned Stark trust someone who talking like that?
 
[X] Plan Firm Foundations
-[X] Take Mediolanum
-[X] The Spanish Dilemma:
--[X] Funds: (-450,000 denarii)
-[X] The Praetorians
--[X] Moderate Funding: (-400,000 denarii)
-[X] An Eastern Ally
-[X] Visit the Sibyl
-[X] Feed the Men Ourselves
-[X] Eat With The Men​
 
[X] Plan Firm Foundations
-[X] Take Mediolanum
-[X] The Spanish Dilemma:
--[X] Funds: (-450,000 denarii)
-[X] The Praetorians
--[X] Moderate Funding: (-400,000 denarii)
-[X] An Eastern Ally
-[X] Visit the Sibyl
-[X] Feed the Men Ourselves
-[X] Eat With The Men​



I hate Zenobia but I think Rome is important enough to risk this plan.

Copy CaoCao tactic of take the"Symbol"

First the capital then tax collector and bureaucracy.

Then you remaking the Empire.
 
Admittedly, I know only the basics about Game of Thrones and have never read the books nor watched the TV series.

That said, I find the idea of comparing the situation in this game to any situation in Game of Thrones to be silly and ridiculous.

But maybe that's just me.
 
Admittedly, I know only the basics about Game of Thrones and have never read the books nor watched the TV series.

That said, I find the idea of comparing the situation in this game to any situation in Game of Thrones to be silly and ridiculous.

But maybe that's just me.
Yeah. Not to mention that comparing ourselves to Tywin Lannister is a bad idea considering he was a brutal thug who ultimately did more damage to his family than anything else.


So I just thought of two issues with Firm Foundations. The text for the Praetorians pretty strongly implies we need to send them a butt load of cash. The plan may not be sending them enough to actually accomplish anything. And with the Spanish Situation, if we send them money and attack Southern Gaul, we should be in position to assist in Spain if anything goes wrong. So yeah, Firm Foundations has a strong chance of throwing away a lot of money for no gain.
 
Admittedly, I know only the basics about Game of Thrones and have never read the books nor watched the TV series.

That said, I find the idea of comparing the situation in this game to any situation in Game of Thrones to be silly and ridiculous.

But maybe that's just me.
Some player compare us with Tywin before that we are good general but not great general but we also good administrator that can use gold to do our work.

Zenobia in control of Egypt will beat us in the administration aspect.
 
So I just thought of two issues with Firm Foundations. The text for the Praetorians pretty strongly implies we need to send them a butt load of cash. The plan may not be sending them enough to actually accomplish anything. And with the Spanish Situation, if we send them money and attack Southern Gaul, we should be in position to assist in Spain if anything goes wrong. So yeah, Firm Foundations has a strong chance of throwing away a lot of money for no gain.

The whole thing about sending them money is to ensure things don't go wrong. Are you implying that the only option that gets us success in either case is by going all in, and that anything less than all-in is almost certainly doomed to failure?

I don't see the angle you're looking at that gives you reason to think - based on the descriptions given - that it creates a strong chance of throwing away a lot of money for no gain.

I understand the fear of losing that money and gaining nothing for it, but I'm not seeing anything that gives me reason to think you're not severely overestimating the chances of all that money going to waste and having nothing to show for it at all and otherwise grasping at 'what if' straws.

Some player compare us with Tywin before that we are good general but not great general but we also good administrator that can use gold to do our work.

Zenobia in control of Egypt will beat us in the administration aspect.

Now I'm just failing to make heads or tails of what you're tying to say entirely.
 
The whole thing about sending them money is to ensure things don't go wrong. Are you implying that the only option that gets us success in either case is by going all in, and that anything less than all-in is almost certainly doomed to failure?

I don't see the angle you're looking at that gives you reason to think - based on the descriptions given - that it creates a strong chance of throwing away a lot of money for no gain.

I understand the fear of losing that money and gaining nothing for it, but I'm not seeing anything that gives me reason to think you're not severely overestimating the chances of all that money going to waste and having nothing to show for it at all and otherwise grasping at 'what if' straws.
The Praetorians option expressly said it was going to need a lot of money

He offers to work towards bringing Quintillus' reign to a sudden and certain end, but suggests he will need a large amount of funds to enact a daring scheme which will end with Quintillus dead and Rome in Praetorian hands -- your hands.
Firm Foundations picks the middle of the road options, which I think gives it a larger chance of failure. And with the Spanish Situation if it works it works, but if it does we're not going to be a in position to salvage the situation anytime soon since Firm Foundations is focused on Italy.

In my opinion if you want Firm Foundations to work it should upgrade the Praetorians to Major Funding and either ignore Spain for the time being or just send troops.
 
Admittedly, I know only the basics about Game of Thrones and have never read the books nor watched the TV series.

That said, I find the idea of comparing the situation in this game to any situation in Game of Thrones to be silly and ridiculous.

But maybe that's just me.
Well, my basic point is just to remember what made him dangerous. The point is, we deliberately chose the character origin with high Stewardship. If we don't use money as a weapon we're pointlessly crippling ourselves.

Yeah. Not to mention that comparing ourselves to Tywin Lannister is a bad idea considering he was a brutal thug who ultimately did more damage to his family than anything else.
Bluntly, he'd defeated all his rivals for power by the time he died. What killed him was being personally abusive to his youngest son and using him as a scapegoat rather than building a relationship with him. That was wrong and stupid, but it doesn't negate the fact that Tywin Lannister is a good illustration of how a High Stewardship High Martial character can defeat a character who is better at Martial, but worse in other areas.

I'm not saying "let's be like Tywin Lannister," but being capable of thinking like him in terms of knowing how to direct gold to benefit our cause is a useful asset for someone who wants to be an emperor.

The Praetorians option expressly said it was going to need a lot of money
400,000 denarii is a lot of money. As others, including you have pointed out.

So I just thought of two issues with Firm Foundations. The text for the Praetorians pretty strongly implies we need to send them a butt load of cash. The plan may not be sending them enough to actually accomplish anything. And with the Spanish Situation, if we send them money and attack Southern Gaul, we should be in position to assist in Spain if anything goes wrong. So yeah, Firm Foundations has a strong chance of throwing away a lot of money for no gain.
Look, we MAY lose the money on one of the options. If we succeed in both areas we have a huge advantage. If things are going well in Spain but the coup in Rome doesn't materialize, we can live. We just do what you want us to do and march to Gaul. If things go well in Rome but our man in Spain gets beaten... well frankly, we gave him as much money as he asked for so I HOPE he won't lose right away.

The point is, winning the backing of the Praetorians and destroying one of the rival claimants would be a huge coup in our favor, pun intended. Even if the Praetorians don't go through with the coup, the money we've given them will be remembered; they will know that we do in fact favor and support them, and that will bias them in our favor against other rival claimants in the future. Heck, it's entirely possible that a random event will result in the Praetorians ganking the claimant in Rome and going for us anyway, it's pretty much what happened to Aurelian in real life!

I know that these are not 100% certain ways to spend cash. But bluntly, we will not gain 100% certainty in any way, shape, or form. Nothing is certain. The outcome of battles is not certain. The outcome of intrigues is not certain. The intentions of our opponents is not certain.

We have to chart a course that secures us advantages, secures us a base of operations, and weakens our rivals. Punching up into southern Gaul and staying on the move for several turns has risks too.
 
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I'm a hideously cheap bastard, so I'm inclined to sort out Northern Italy and Southern Gaul before anywhere else.
 
Bluntly, he'd defeated all his rivals for power by the time he died. What killed him was being personally abusive to his youngest son and using him as a scapegoat rather than building a relationship with him. That was wrong and stupid, but it doesn't negate the fact that Tywin Lannister is a good illustration of how a High Stewardship High Martial character can defeat a character who is better at Martial, but worse in other areas.

I'm not saying "let's be like Tywin Lannister," but being capable of thinking like him in terms of knowing how to direct gold to benefit our cause is a useful asset for someone who wants to be an emperor.
Yeah and the moment he was out of power everything he built started to crumble because he was both deeply feared and deeply hated and that fear didn't fully transfer to the rest of the Lannisters but the hatred did. Tywin is a terrible model to follow for several reasons.

I know that these are not 100% certain ways to spend cash. But bluntly, we will not gain 100% certainty in any way, shape, or form. Nothing is certain. The outcome of battles is not certain. The outcome of intrigues is not certain. The intentions of our opponents is not certain.
And my point is that's a lot of cash to risk turn 1. Attacking Southern Gaul will give us both a base of operations safely away from Aurelian and give us a chance to intervene in Spain should things go wrong. While every plan has risks I feel like yours is pretty big gambit where as with mine I'm aiming for gaining a lot for a low amount of risk.
 
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