Let It Be Written, Let It Be Done (Tomb Kings Quest)

[ganonso]

I fail to see how this is something particular to Nurgle. Khorne turned Angron into a Daemon Prince via Lorgar performing a ritual on him, even though he didn't want it, but he was too consumed by the Nails to realize what was happening and that Lorgar was condemning him to an eternal life that he did not want. Tzeentch got Magnus by manipulating him with the Flesh Change, Tutelaries, and Horus' corruption. Slaanesh got Fulgrim by straight-up mind controlling him without him ever realizing it. Hell, look at Archaon: he was utterly weak in character to the point that once he learned about the prophecy he was intended to fulfill, a lack of answer from Sigmar led to him immediately going "well shit I guess I better do exactly what the Dark Gods said I should do" rather than just... not doing that. The greatest hero of Chaos, ladies and gentlemen. Chaos, in general, preys upon some form of weakness, and so Chaos Champions who aren't raised in it like the Norscans will tend to not be people who have strong spirits and hearts. Unfettered ambition, uncontrollable rage, endless despair, insatiable addiction, all flaws. There are exceptions of course, but to say that weakness tends to be absent from others that Chaos corrupted just... leaves me befuddled.

Click to shrink...

How can I explain?

Angron and Fulgrim in the modern interpretation of their falls are also victims, notably Angron for which moral responsibility may be seriously argued. But both were already walking their gods's paths without realizing it. Of course they were tempted and manipulated but the steps were theirs. Angron did not struggle against the fury of the Nails but embraced it and condemned his legion to share in his agony. Fulgrim was tempted by the Laer sword but was only truly gone when he gave his body to the daemon.

Magnus had numerous occasions to turn away from the path and did not take them. Pride, ambition, forlorn hope he would be able to turn everything around were his masters.

Mortarion canon corruption story is: "When the Death Guard traveled to Terra, they were becalmed in the Warp and infected with disease. Their legendary endurance failing even their Primarch, Mortarion begged for release and was answered by Nurgle."

For me that's a shit corruption story because at no moment it plays on the faults of Mortarion and the Death Guard. On the contrary, it's a breach of character for them and their Primarch that brings them to the embrace of the Grandfather. Typhus just puts a metaphorical gun to his legion's head and they just give in.

Contrast with the World Eaters' savagery paving the way to the worship of Khorne, the Emperor's Children perfectionist nature being the gateway to Slaanesh's desires, the Thousand Sons' hubris allowing for a smooth transition to Tzeentch's worship. *

In my version of the Death Guard's corruption, there is just one narrative change I make. Mortarion and his Marines did not pray "Make the pain stop. Let it end.". Mortarion considered the situation, the price of allying with the powers of darkness. And even seeing the horrors the Warp wrought on his sons, he and them said to themselves: "We have gone too far to withdraw. We will follow the path to the end, whatever the cost."

And so their greatest strength, their greatest weakness, their insistence on tanking damage, their pig-headed determination and refusal to consider another path when decided, turned into their damnation.

They could have chosen death. They could have called to other Warp powers. They could have tried to adapt and change their ways even before arriving to this point. Like Magnus hilariously, they ignored every chance of redemption, every opportunity of turning back, of understanding they were betraying everything they once stood for on Barbarus.

But when Mortarion decided on a course of action, nothing could make him change course. Once taken, the decision was to pursued to the inexorable end.

I know that may make parallels between Mortarion and Perturabo but there were differences. Perturabo was also determined but confronted with Nurgle's Rot, he would have done everything in his power to find a solution even including cybernetic replacement of the infected parts. He would have tried sorcery, every trick conjured in his vast intelligence to escape from the trap he was in. And in the end perhaps he would have chosen suicide just to spite the powers who ravaged his body.

Because Perturabo like Magnus thinks there is always a solution, Mortarion did not care he did not saw a solution but continued nonetheless.

 

[Shane_357]

Perturabo is my favourite Primarch because he has the seeds of being the best in him. If only poor boy wasn't dumped on a literally fascist world and got indoctrinated into it's way of perceiving problems and solutions.

 

[Nicholas Brooks]

How can I explain?

Angron and Fulgrim in the modern interpretation of their falls are also victims, notably Angron for which moral responsibility may be seriously argued. But both were already walking their gods's paths without realizing it. Of course they were tempted and manipulated but the steps were theirs. Angron did not struggle against the fury of the Nails but embraced it and condemned his legion to share in his agony. Fulgrim was tempted by the Laer sword but was only truly gone when he gave his body to the daemon.

Magnus had numerous occasions to turn away from the path and did not take them. Pride, ambition, forlorn hope he would be able to turn everything around were his masters.

Mortarion canon corruption story is: "When the Death Guard traveled to Terra, they were becalmed in the Warp and infected with disease. Their legendary endurance failing even their Primarch, Mortarion begged for release and was answered by Nurgle."

For me that's a shit corruption story because at no moment it plays on the faults of Mortarion and the Death Guard. On the contrary, it's a breach of character for them and their Primarch that brings them to the embrace of the Grandfather. Typhus just puts a metaphorical gun to his legion's head and they just give in.

Contrast with the World Eaters' savagery paving the way to the worship of Khorne, the Emperor's Children perfectionist nature being the gateway to Slaanesh's desires, the Thousand Sons' hubris allowing for a smooth transition to Tzeentch's worship. *

Click to shrink...

Angron did struggle against them though. Early on in the Great Crusade he tried to abandon it all and go live out the rest of his days on a random planet, and he had to be convinced or coerced to return to the fleet and carry on multiple times. However this was a struggle that he was losing, and his condition continued to deteriorate. Yes, he and his Legion were definitely easy fits for Khorne, but for Angron himself, he was undoubtedly the Primarch that put up the most fight against what he would later end up becoming.

Fulgrim we are in agreement on more or less.

Magnus is something of an odd one in that his Legion at minimum was fucked from the get-go. They were afflicted by the Flesh Change thanks to Tzeentch and were dying in agony constantly, and Tzeentch had the ability to reactivate the curse whenever he wanted to, even after Magnus lost his eye for the cure. From then on, it was a constant series of events feeding into Magnus' pride and most of all his boundless curiosity, with Tzeentch even allowing the Thousand Sons to have Daemons of his as pets without harm, just to further push the "Hey the Warp's actually quite alright" idea. Pretty much right up until the point that the Thousand Sons officially joined the traitors, nobody had even the slightest clue how thoroughly they had been played. This is tragic, but it is tragic in the sense that it feels unavoidable with how everything had been so neatly planned, even if in the technical sense this could have been avoided if different decisions were made.

Mortarion I think is actually a misunderstanding. You see, Mortarion liked to play himself up as being mentally invincible and utterly unshakeable, but deep down he loved his sons deeply, and that was his achilles' heel. He could hide that very well with how he would use them in attrition warfare and with how he would kill them without hesitation if he needed to like what happened with Isstvan III, but in his heart of hearts, they were of unfathomable importance. The irony in what happened to the Death Guard was that the toughness Mortarion had instilled into them was turned into a weakness when Nurgle was able to tailor an even more powerful disease to be used against them because they were resilient enough to take it and not be overwhelmed and die. Mortarion could endure this pain, surely, but what brought him down was that he couldn't stand to live for eternity surrounded by the agonized wailing of his Legion for whom he could not offer the release of death. Mortarion succumbed to his own lack of self-awareness, his hypocrisy, and his very human feelings, not simply to the direct harm of Nurgle's plagues. For all that the XIVth didn't fear dying, suffering was unbearable, and Nurgle offered an out to that.

Edit:

Perturabo is my favourite Primarch because he has the seeds of being the best in him. If only poor boy wasn't dumped on a literally fascist world and got indoctrinated into it's way of perceiving problems and solutions.

Click to shrink...

Perturabo's way of perceiving problems and solutions were all his own, no "fascism" needed. He was a radical rationalist who had a heart that demanded to be heard, and that contradiction destroyed him. What he needed was someone that could see through his bullshit facade and get him to be honest about how he feels, because for all that he may like them, Perturabo is not a robot, and he cannot be fully logical and practical all the fucking time without expressing any wants for himself.

 

[Shane_357]

Perturabo's way of perceiving problems and solutions were all his own, no "fascism" needed. He was a radical rationalist who had a heart that demanded to be heard, and that contradiction destroyed him. What he needed was someone that could see through his bullshit facade and get him to be honest about how he feels, because for all that he may like them, Perturabo is not a robot, and he cannot be fully logical and practical all the fucking time without expressing any wants for himself.

Click to shrink...

Not at all, his actions from meeting his Legion onward are in direct continuity from what he learned from his homeworld. Go have a read on what Olympia was like if you don't believe me; a pack of backstabbing city-states ruled by absolute dictators concerned only with power and domination. Where do you think his fear of treachery came from that leads him to tell no one his thoughts? His constant resorting to senseless brutality as a tool to enforce compliance and obedience? They are the products of culture.

 

[Nicholas Brooks]

Not at all, his actions from meeting his Legion onward are in direct continuity from what he learned from his homeworld. Go have a read on what Olympia was like if you don't believe me; a pack of backstabbing city-states ruled by absolute dictators concerned only with power and domination. Where do you think his fear of treachery came from that leads him to tell no one his thoughts? His constant resorting to senseless brutality as a tool to enforce compliance and obedience? They are the products of culture.

Click to shrink...

Nah. I know what Olympia is like and I can tell you that Perturabo would have had a similar problem if he was raised on Macragge and nobody saw through his mask. Perturabo, when he got to conquering, went with the process of "Offer surrender first, then if rejected proceed to conquer completely even if they wave the white flag" not because he was advised to by Dammekos or anyone in his court, but because he logically deduced "Okay, looking at the unification of Olympia as a math problem, this way gets it done the fastest, with the least total damage done". He didn't fear treachery and I have no idea where you got the idea that this is the cause of him not telling anything to anyone. He didn't tell anyone shit because he could see the Eye of Terror from any location and nobody else could, and that made him feel totally disconnected from others, because he didn't want to be considered crazy for saying "Hey there's a giant hole leading straight into Hell right there in the sky, don't you see it?" His use of violence isn't that complicated either: when he was younger he tried getting people to do as he said or change their minds with words but that simply wouldn't work because the Olympian people were far too rooted in superstition and dogma. But when he got to taking over cities with his magnificent new machines, then people started listening to a great many things from him. It wasn't that Olympia itself was that way, it was that Perturabo only got results he wanted when he started cracking skulls.

 

[Shane_357]

Nah. I know what Olympia is like and I can tell you that Perturabo would have had a similar problem if he was raised on Macragge and nobody saw through his mask. Perturabo, when he got to conquering, went with the process of "Offer surrender first, then if rejected proceed to conquer completely even if they wave the white flag" not because he was advised to by Dammekos or anyone in his court, but because he logically deduced "Okay, looking at the unification of Olympia as a math problem, this way gets it done the fastest, with the least total damage done". He didn't fear treachery and I have no idea where you got the idea that this is the cause of him not telling anything to anyone. He didn't tell anyone shit because he could see the Eye of Terror from any location and nobody else could, and that made him feel totally disconnected from others, because he didn't want to be considered crazy for saying "Hey there's a giant hole leading straight into Hell right there in the sky, don't you see it?" His use of violence isn't that complicated either: when he was younger he tried getting people to do as he said or change their minds with words but that simply wouldn't work because the Olympian people were far too rooted in superstition and dogma. But when he got to taking over cities with his magnificent new machines, then people started listening to a great many things from him. It wasn't that Olympia itself was that way, it was that Perturabo only got results he wanted when he started cracking skulls.

Click to shrink...

...okay the stuff you're saying is just... completely out of line with canon, so I'm gonna stop engaging with you now.