I feel like the Shinma are too...big to have been creations of the Rakasha.

[X]Ask about the Dragon that Ends the World. What Direction is that in?
The shinma are effigies that represent existing ideas about how the world works, have no well-defined origin, and exist inside the Wyld. All three of those things match up with how raksha work pretty well, and any discussion of them to the contrary has been the result of @Omicron or @EarthScorpion making up their own ideas for how they work.

I'd personally assume they're powerful Wyld entities that have been further bolstered by the efforts of Unshaped & raksha lords to try and match the accomplishments of the Primordials. The issue here is that this doesn't change the fact that they're insanely powerful knockoff Primordials that specialize in wide-range AoE Shaping effects that they spam every tick.
 
The shinma are effigies that represent existing ideas about how the world works, have no well-defined origin, and exist inside the Wyld. All three of those things match up with how raksha work pretty well, and any discussion of them to the contrary has been the result of @Omicron or @EarthScorpion making up their own ideas for how they work.

I'd personally assume they're powerful Wyld entities that have been further bolstered by the efforts of Unshaped & raksha lords to try and match the accomplishments of the Primordials. The issue here is that this doesn't change the fact that they're insanely powerful knockoff Primordials that specialize in wide-range AoE Shaping effects that they spam every tick.
what is this thread and have i ever actually even talked about the shinma
 
what is this thread and have i ever actually even talked about the shinma
Shit, sorry - I just sort of reflexively use the "@" when mentioning other users by name.

Also, you did use one of the shinma to help explain how The Thing Below exists - which is actually really really good, by the way, don't take this as me bashing your work.

The thread is basically an Exalted quest?
 
Shit, sorry - I just sort of reflexively use the "@" when mentioning other users by name.

Also, you did use one of the shinma to help explain how The Thing Below exists - which is actually really really good, by the way, don't take this as me bashing your work.

The thread is basically an Exalted quest?
Oh, that was one of my player's pet theories. It was close enough to true that I threw it around talking about the game, but it wasn't really about the Shinma themselves, more about "existence before time and identity came to define the universe." It didn't particularly ewe to any given conception of the Shinma.
 
The Dragon that Ends the World is likely a neverborn Oramus.

@#$%, we need to get the Eye of Autochthon quickly.
 
Goddammit now I'm imagining TED Talks in an entirely different light.
Who gave the Dragons Shadows Final Form time on a largely educational talk platform?
 
when did the primordials make creation? when they started existing? or later on? oramos came before existance came about from the wyld or before anything was? i wonder what oramos was doing with the raksha in that case, given that they didn't hate the primordials until they made a fixed point in the wyld known as creation?
 
when did the primordials make creation? when they started existing? or later on? oramos came before existance came about from the wyld or before anything was? i wonder what oramos was doing with the raksha in that case, given that they didn't hate the primordials until they made a fixed point in the wyld known as creation?

The Primordial actually made many prototypes before Creation. But Oramus was the first / zeroth Primordial. Depending on how one looks at it, he is both the brother/father to all Primordial.
 
Goddammit now I'm imagining TED Talks in an entirely different light.
Who gave the Dragons Shadows Final Form time on a largely educational talk platform?

The question you should be asking is: why did it take so long to realize TED would be the perfect person to give a TED talk? I mean, just talking to him would probably raise a person's IQ by 10 points. Or you die horribly but then we must all make sacrifices for the sake of evolution.
 
The Primordials first gathered together, and their combined metaphysical might calcified the Pure Chaos around them, forming Zen-Mu. Time as we understand it did not exist back then. At some point, the Dreamers set out in search of the "Shining Answer". Autochthon built a Bridge to Nowhere; as long as the Dreamers did not follow the path of the Bridge, they would not go Nowhere, and would therefore be going Somewhere. Eventually, they found a decent spot and went about building what is now known as Creation. The passage of the Dreamers calcified a trail through Chaos from Zen-Mu to Creation; this is the Faraway, which is even more weird than the weirdest non-Faraway parts of the Wyld.
 
how long would it take to get to zen-mu from creation using auto-kuns help? also what is gaia looking for again?
 
how long would it take to get to zen-mu from creation using auto-kuns help? also what is gaia looking for again?
It's unknown if Zen-Mu even still exists. It existed and expanded because the Primordial King at the time, Mardukth, could not otherwise conceive of a world that could contain him. Much like he could not conceive that he was a single being, for he was so huge. Mardukth's constant expansion and questioning of identity ("Am I Mardukth?") lead to the oft used demonic swear of;

"My Mardukth's ever-expanding arse!"

As for Gaia, she is searching for the Shining Answer. Basically, it's meaning. 42. Or possibly the Ultimate Question. We're currently unsure.
 
when did the primordials make creation? when they started existing? or later on? oramos came before existance came about from the wyld or before anything was? i wonder what oramos was doing with the raksha in that case, given that they didn't hate the primordials until they made a fixed point in the wyld known as creation?
So, Creation was made 5000+ years ago. After it was created, there was an indeterminate amount of time referred to as the "Time of Primordial Glories" where the Primordials were in charge of shit. It was during this time the Incarnae were created, the varied races were made, Yu Shan was built, etc. The Primordial War ended about 5000 years ago. Whether or not the Time of Primordial Glories is longer than everything since is up to the ST to decide.
 
how would the free folk treat the primordials before they made creation?
When the Primordials appeared and solidified their identities, this caused time to come into being.

The Raksha didn't like that, because that meant their actions had consequences. So from day one, it's been full on hate from the Raksha, while the Primordials find them annoying.

Releasing Oramus into the Wyld will occupy the Raksha to an amazing degree, because he is so far beyond their power that it is hilarious. 'The child of 4 chan and Mardi Gras' is an accurate assessment.
 
When the Primordials appeared and solidified their identities, this caused time to come into being.

The Raksha didn't like that, because that meant their actions had consequences. So from day one, it's been full on hate from the Raksha, while the Primordials find them annoying.

Releasing Oramus into the Wyld will occupy the Raksha to an amazing degree, because he is so far beyond their power that it is hilarious. 'The child of 4 chan and Mardi Gras' is an accurate assessment.
The point I always like to remind people of is that for all the raksha who hate the Primordials for what they did, you've got ones who actually like it.

The good part about things like Time and Permanence is that what you accomplish matters, the people you don't like can be made to go away forever, and sometimes your efforts can yield results that are legitimately surprising. There are totally raksha who hoard everything from old shoes to gold bullion and constantly build giant gaudy statues of themselves because IT'S ALL REAL MOTHERFUCKERS, COME OVER HERE AND TELL ME HOW UNORIGINAL MY STORIES ARE, OH WAIT YOU CAN'T BECAUSE I HAD MY SLAVES IMPALE YOU ON IRON STAKES AND MADE YOUR CORPSES INTO JEWELRY, WHO'S LAUGHING NOW!?

Raksha. They can be unspeakably petty or so ideologically dedicated they'll die just to make a story better, and you never know which kind you're dealing with until it's too late to back out.
 
That's a Bad Dragon
[X]Ask about the Dragon that Ends the World. What Direction is that in?


"The Dragon that Ends the World. Where is that? What Direction?"

You fold your arms, furrowing your brow. Is that Oramus? Or the Ebon Dragon? No, because Hunhow is in Creation, and the Yozi are in Malfeas. This is a Dragon in Creation. You rub the bridge of your nose and turn to Mara.

"What about the other servants? Does it know where they are?"

"No," Mara says, "Or at least, it's not compelled to say."

"Do you think the Ebon Dragon could compel an answer?"

Mara tches. "Grandfather could compel an answer, but would you trust an answer from him?"

"Fair point." You pace back and forth, pace around the circle. The rest of the group are inside- it is late, and this was a demonology thing so you left it in your and Mara's hands. "So where are they?"

"Sand, Earth, Water, Snow or Wood, shadow?"

We travel water.

(Int+Lore, 12 dice +6 autosuccesses, 13 successes)

Water? That implies West. Traveling through the West. The Dragon that Ends the World, in the West. What dragon could they mean?

Oh.

Oh dear. You have a very good idea what that means.

You turn to Mara. Elementals aren't your specialty, but you made it a point to study the summoning of Elementals with Peak. You did come across the concept of the Greater Elemental Dragons, and in particular one elemental dragon- one sleeping in the distant west.

"Oh gods."

The End Dragon. The Roll of Glorious Divinity in Yu Shan told the tale of four thousand years ago, when the Unconquered Sun bound a great beast beneath the West, appointing twelve hardened elementals to watch it until the day that civilization itself was no more. Then, it would rise and scour the land. From its wake, new growth would emerge, fresh and vibrant that neither death or chaos could find purchase upon.

"The Kukla."

Mara dismisses the Shadow. "That's bad. That's, 'Grandfather has an actual plan' bad."

You quickly nod. "Awakening the Kukla pretty much destroys Creation. From what Hunhow said, that's the plan. Thankfully, first he would have to get past the Kukla's twelve guardians."

"He's a Divine Minister infected with Void Cancer, who's apparently bound to a servant with Sidereal Martial Arts. That sounds like odds I wouldn't bet against."

You suck your teeth with a nod. "Okay. We need to figure out a plan."



You quickly told your Circle of what you figured out- Hunhow, or at least the part of him you stole the shadow of, was heading for the Kukla. The problem was, the Kukla's location was secret. Finding where it was would be one thing. Getting there in time, before Hunhow attempted to awaken it was another, and that wasn't counting what other plans he had in motion.

The skyship continues traveling westward- having entered Creation in the North, it begins to pass over Gethamane, heading towards Whitewall.

"So, options?"

"Send prayer missives to the Bureau of Seasons," Ray observes, "Explain the situation. They're in charge of elementals and they'd know where Kukla is."

You nod. "If we're passing Whitewall, we could pick up reinforcements. Matcha could be very helpful," Sky adds, "They do owe us favors for helping fix the city."

A brass, low cough. You turn, and see Autochthon has exited Elsewhere.

"If I may. I do believe we are near the Eye."

You blink. "Seriously?"

You stand up, and point to the map table. The encounter suit walks over, and points to a spot. A spot about fifty miles northwest of Whitewall.

"So that's where the Pearl Court was before Ray fucked them up," you observe, "Some other Raksha might've moved in."

"We could definitely use the Eye," Ray observes, "I mean, if we have to choose between using the Eye and letting the Kukla loose, it's not exactly a good choice, buuuut-"

"Why don't we ask Gaia?"

Everyone turns to Shell.

"I'm sorry?" you ask. Autochthon vanishes back into Elsewhere.

"Why don't we ask Gaia?" Shell repeats, "Isn't she in charge of all Elementals? Can't we ask her to make sure the Kukla doesn't wake up?"

Huh. That's a good point.

[ ]Find the Eye. You're close, it could be useful.

[ ]Pray to the Bureau of Seasons about the situation and see if they can send reinforcements or blessings, or possibly the location of the Kukla.

[ ]Pray to Gaia. Plus side: Best wealth of information. Negative side: You have Gaia's Attention.

[ ]Write in.
 
On another note: IT TOOK ME FAR TOO FUCKING LONG to do this because for some reason, SV no longer works with Chrome. Does anyone know WHY?
 
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