E.L.F, Extraterrestrial Lifeform

Reader mode
Pax_Empyrean said:
Yes, the Imperium is hugely trigger-happy and would kill probably anybody even if they were peaceful, friendly, and trustworthy, but I don't think the 40k setting even has anybody like that, so it's kind of a moot point. I'm given to understand that humanity thought they had some alien buddies like that before the Age of Strife, right up until they got backstabbed and decided not to trust anybody ever.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Tau from a few versions ago wanted to have words with you, but then the Games Workshop shoved the ethereals up their collective ass(because WarHammer 40K isn't allowed to have nice things).
 
If I recall the discussions at the time, that was indeed the literal and explicitly stated reason they shat up the Tau, they were too noblebright for the setting.

As for the Orks though; they wanna scrap, da rest a da gits scrap wit 'em, wut cud be betta, govnah? Obviously this is not such an ideal relationship from everyone else's point of view, they are perhaps the only bunch in the galaxy that are overall happy or at least satisfied, so they're ahead by that much.
 
Yah, Eldar are the distilled version of fantasy Elfynes.

They are long lived, but do nothing of significance with their time;
They act all acetic and shit, but aren't,
They talk mad shit but can't back it up,
They are all about 'Out ancient ways are superior hon hon hon' and then get shit armor saves like really bruh

really


Eldar are the epitome of "Bitch, why you acting like you won when you lost!"

I
 
Shujin said:
The first hint that I may have pushed too hard was when her jaw clenched a little. Then next was when she dropped her arms, picked up her spear and stood up. She bowed almost respectfully, but the slight sneer of disfavor on her face contradicted it. I snarled back. She was just like the others. I'd almost bought it. Her eyes rolled, and she started to walk away.

I watched her go, feeling the squirming in my gut get worse. I didn't want to stay here. I couldn't stay here. What was happening with my body? With the PRT, with Dad?

"Wait," I called after her. She didn't stop and I bit my lip. "Please," I whispered. That was when she stopped and turned to look at me. If she could get me out of here, then I could afford to give a little. "I'm sorry. Can you get me out of here?"

She was still, looking over me for up to half a minute before she walked back. I expected her to sit down again, but this time she kept walking past me with a beckoning motion with her spear. I got up and walked after her.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ok, so no help from the past lives of the Eldar. Though I'm unsure whether this entire scene is meant to demonstrate that the entire Eldar race is dead and currently residing in the Infinity Circuit or whether Taylor accidentally stumbled into an inhabited Craftworld's circuit and the solid Eldar projections are living Eldar watching over their dead. Or it could be that they're Avatar's of the Eldar pantheon. Though what with only Cegorach and Isha being the only intact remaining gods, I somewhat doubt it.

At least this sets a different tone for the story; no training montage for this Taylor. Which is not to say that I don't think that the Eldar spirits or what have you won't return in some capacity, but its refreshing to see that Taylor won't just be given five minutes of training in which to become a master of her craft.

What it does mean is that its seems Taylor will probably undergo a more trial and error approach to discovering her powers. Along with all the ensuing hassle such a method brings with it.
 
Robo Jesus said:
Shujin, you know how I've stated when we were writing that the best lies are those that utilize the "Truth"?

Look at things from that perspective. Chaos manipulated Horus via a self-fulfilled prophecy that used a "Truth" without context. The IoM's xenophobia? Based on the fact that 98%-99.5% of the other races have fucked them over in various ways.

One or two examples of races that haven't fucked humanity over just because they could does not mean that the other ninety-eight are comparable to those two. Given that, it becomes easy to see how those contexts could shape things.

And as Pax_Empyrean pointed out, all the races in 40K are terrible. The Tau tend to sterilize the populations they conquer. The IoM is (somewhat justifiably) paranoid, schizophrenic, imperialistic, genocidal, disfunctional, and composed of a lot of different groups that would be fighting eachother if they didn't have everything else to worry about and fight against. The Eldar have fucked everyone over, and their messes are finally catching up with them. The Tyranids want as much biomass as possible to put between themselves and whatever they're (apparently?) running from. Chaos is Chaos. The Necrons/Newcrons are various bags of assholishness, omnicidal, isolationist, imperialistic, and trollish. The Orks just want to have a good scrap.

Out of all those groups, the group(s?) that is the 'least' evil are either the Orks who just want to fight, or the Tyranids, and that's just because all they want to do is eat you (and even then they too will use a lot of subterfuge and manipulation and mindfuckery and body-horror to accomplish that goal). :shrugs:

All of 40K's groups are terrible. And while not everything they say is truth, not everything they say is a lie either.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Or its a self-fulfilling prophecy that GW canon is also fond of, in which the only aliens left are the assholes because the good ones got killed by any one of the asshole groups including IoM. And when the only ones left are assholes, naturally that justifies being an asshole to everyone because there is no good option left and miscommunication kills.
 
theM said:
So, to recap, Eldrad missed a very important detail and because he didn't stop to think, got his ass kicked by a Primarch, any trust for the Eldar ruined, a bunch of Eldar worlds turned to scrap, and had the Primarch fall to Chaos.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Eldrad did a horrible job of warning Fulgrim, all he did say was, "Horus is dying somewhere and I'm glad that he is".
 
Shujin said:
The teeth creature hadn't shown up until after I relaxed the barriers on my mind, and it had kept it out. As long as I never did anything like that again, maybe I would be alright?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Wow, she can be very good at fooling herself that all is well :) I mean, someone's offering to teach her how to control her power, something that is unique in Earth Bet, and she's refusing even after seeing examples of what happened to untrained psykers. That's not going to come back to bite her in the rear end. Of course, she doesn't know enough to be wary of the hidden barbs in what's being offered, she's just instinctively distrustful so it might work out, somewhat.
 
Shujin said:
Or its a self-fulfilling prophecy that GW canon is also fond of, in which the only aliens left are the assholes because the good ones got killed by any one of the asshole groups including IoM. And when the only ones left are assholes, naturally that justifies being an asshole to everyone because there is no good option left and miscommunication kills.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Tau of older editions were nice happy aliens. Human worlds were EXTERMINATED for simply siding with Tau.
I liked that contrast with Eldar, who were fucked up or very fucked up, Orks who were adoryfing and keep being scary(I am so fucking glad they didn't grimderp Orks), Chaos becoming completely two-bit cartoonish villains, IoM ... truthfully they changed little just added more rot, decay and hate over editions. 'nids never changed, but they are Aliens expies anyway.
Necrons turned worse. I liked them better as alien semi-undead working on inscrutable goals of alien intelligences. How Necrons were fucked up shown that they really went over the top with War in Heavens. Newcrons? I dislike them.
 
It is likely that the Emperor condoned or encouraged the already present xenophobia of humanity during the Great Crusade to make his plan of having mankind remain ignorant of the Chaos Gods work, at least until his web-way project was finished. I take it that races that were out of the way of the Great Crusade's conquest were largely ignored, and that the mentality of being besieged on all sides was solidified by both the Horus Heresy and the Waaaghhh! of the Beast. The Imperium's reprehensible genocides are indeed bad, but their executions were the result of numerous factors over thousands of years. In any case, the Imperium's policy in general is to fight the powerful races and ignore the minor ones -- unless they get unlucky and find themselves in between a larger conflict or colonization campaign. In the modern Imperium, they're usually seen as an endless tide of heathens one step away from wrecking humanity.

Regarding the Eldar, it's just that their far-seers make for bad diplomats, given that they have the constant mentality of being one step away from destruction, and requiring thus endless maneuverings that may seem incomprehensible or treacherous to laymen onlookers. Their disrespect of the human species is just an antagonism born out of assumptions fermented during the pandemonium, and of-course their elder arrogance. Because they're Eldar.


Just to make a point, The Sons of Horus destroyed the Interex out of a plot engineered by Erebus to corrupt Horus.
 
Czlyydwr Llrngwl said:
As for the Orks though; they wanna scrap, da rest a da gits scrap wit 'em, wut cud be betta, govnah? Obviously this is not such an ideal relationship from everyone else's point of view, they are perhaps the only bunch in the galaxy that are overall happy or at least satisfied, so they're ahead by that much.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Reminded me of that quote from one of the codexes:

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.
—Uthan the Perverse, Eldar philosopher, Warhammer40000
 
Czlyydwr Llrngwl said:
If I recall the discussions at the time, that was indeed the literal and explicitly stated reason they shat up the Tau, they were too noblebright for the setting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... This is stupid. If you have a less advanced, more idealistic race and you think they're too bright for the setting, you let the setting do the shitting on them- let their idealism be destroyed under the weight of grimderp.

OR, or, just... just hear me out- don't introduce the spot of hope if you're going to pretend you didn't, later. Snuff it out all you like, but snuff it out in universe, for ethereals' sake.
 
I fervently agree. That was when I lost any more than casual curiosity about 40K.
 
CaesriusPolybius said:
... This is stupid. If you have a less advanced, more idealistic race and you think they're too bright for the setting, you let the setting do the shitting on them- let their idealism be destroyed under the weight of grimderp.

OR, or, just... just hear me out- don't introduce the spot of hope if you're going to pretend you didn't, later. Snuff it out all you like, but snuff it out in universe, for ethereals' sake.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Except GW's version of 'snuff the hope spot out in-universe' apparently gets us stuff like Death Masque, in which the hope spot is snuffed through a comedy of errors, except its black comedy bordering on fucking tragic.
 
Shujin said:
Or its a self-fulfilling prophecy that GW canon is also fond of, in which the only aliens left are the assholes because the good ones got killed by any one of the asshole groups including IoM. And when the only ones left are assholes, naturally that justifies being an asshole to everyone because there is no good option left and miscommunication kills.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I got that impression myself from the setting. That inquisitor who fought the Tyranids (whatever his name was) discovered dozens of sentient alien races in the early part of his career and had every single one of them genocided as a threat to the Imperium. If the IoM exterminates every species it encounters as standard practice, then by sheer natural selection the only ones left will be the brutal, powerful and dangerous ones.
 
Sweece said:
I got that impression myself from the setting. That inquisitor who fought the Tyranids (whatever his name was) discovered dozens of sentient alien races in the early part of his career and had every single one of them genocided as a threat to the Imperium. If the IoM exterminates every species it encounters as standard practice, then by sheer natural selection the only ones left will be the brutal, powerful and dangerous ones.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Aaand now every time I think of the Imperium, it'll be with a 'kills 99.9% of Xenos!' sticker right beneath it. Thank you so much for that.:)
 
Shujin said:
That is what the Imperium says happened. However, we know of 2 civilizations in canon where humans lived completely at peace with xeno that were genocided by the Imperium during the Great Crusade that took place right after the Age of Strife. And Eldrad Ulthran was the one who warned Emps about Horus and Chaos. So something about that line smells a lot like propaganda and self-justification after the fact. Much like 'No religion' -> 'Worship the Emprah.'
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Actually, this is GW canon, not just in-universe propaganda/justification. Basically, when Big E was leading the Crusades, he came across world after world where the aliens had either wiped out, enslaved, or generally been assholes to the human survivors. So, of course, he went 'kill 'em all' on their asses.

However, he was already being worshipped in secret by his subordinates, so they went all 'our god says aliens are evil!', something even the Primarchs started to believe. When the crusades broke up to cover more ground, they took that religious fervour with them.

Doesn't hurt that Emps got jaded after a while and just started burning alien worlds without ever checking the native's stance on humans.
Shujin said:
Except GW's version of 'snuff the hope spot out in-universe' apparently gets us stuff like Death Masque, in which the hope spot is snuffed through a comedy of errors, except its black comedy bordering on fucking tragic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
W40k was always meant to be a tragic, black comedy. So when that happens, it is a rare moment that GW is being true to its original source.
 
Mgunh1 said:
W40k was always meant to be a tragic, black comedy. So when that happens, it is a rare moment that GW is being true to its original source.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I agree on the black comedy part. Tragic? It's fucked up, there is no noble ideals falling or people not rising up to the occassion. It's failures piled upon failures, followed by despicable asshats shitting on top. That's why it is grimderp when treated seriously.

GW ret-conning all the not-fucked up things is what takes the tragedy out of equation. Tau as optimistic and genuinely decent guys? Tragic, because Imperium of Man will CRUSH them mercilessly for showing the error of Imperium's ways. Tau who are same old bag of dicks and asshats as Imperium? Only validates the monstrousness that Imperium is. No tragedy and no fun, outside of Orks.

And Orks are funny mostly because they are largerly untouched from the get-go. Everything else was grim-derped beyond funny.
Except 'nids. They were only added some body-horror for extra visceral bullshit.
 
Shujin said:
That is what the Imperium says happened. However, we know of 2 civilizations in canon where humans lived completely at peace with xeno that were genocided by the Imperium during the Great Crusade that took place right after the Age of Strife. And Eldrad Ulthran was the one who warned Emps about Horus and Chaos. So something about that line smells a lot like propaganda and self-justification after the fact. Much like 'No religion' -> 'Worship the Emprah.'
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Okay, that's false. The one with the simian xenos (Kinebrach) had a nurgle weapon. And the simian were scuicidal. Given that sadness is the domain of nurgle, I am pretty sure that it's the proof that they were corrupted (or at least the equivalent of dark eldars, but for nurgle). And the second one was peaceful by dark eldars standards which mean pretty much nothing.

Killing the xenos is a logical move.
 
Last edited:
...also weren't there a bunch of Xeno allies during the DaoT and then MoI happened and then the Xenos went all "We is raiding your shit as you fall apart instead of being halfway decent people and at worst not helping."
 
Amusement: Everything above is why we Don't play tabletop. Casual gaming, if anything.
Offhand: Big brother likes 40k more than we do. Personally, we liked fantasy better. Less linear downward spiral.
 
Kindfragen said:
Amusement: Everything above is why we Don't play tabletop. Casual gaming, if anything.
Offhand: Big brother likes 40k more than we do. Personally, we liked fantasy better. Less linear downward spiral.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm discovering that tabletop has the dumbest rules for Eldar Farseers that make no sense whatsoever and are better off being ignored. Like that apparently Farseers don't have telekinesis as a psychic discipline.
 
Robo Jesus said:
The Tau tend to sterilize the populations they conquer.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Going by the Tau codexs? codexes? codii?, not really... the humans who end up in the Tau Empire actually get treated BETTER than they would in the Imperium, complete with the ability to worship the Emperor (minus the super Anti-Alien Fanatic parts).

The sterilizing is specficically from the Dawn of War/Dark Crusade (Tau Scenario), and was done to rebellious humans. What happens to rebellious humans in the IoM is definitely worse.
 
Shujin said:
I'm discovering that tabletop has the dumbest rules for Eldar Farseers that make no sense whatsoever and are better off being ignored. Like that apparently Farseers don't have telekinesis as a psychic discipline.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Acknowledgment: How sad.


Reluctance: The only regular interaction we have with the tabletop WH40k is painting miniatures. We can't offer any insight such as what you have provided.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Back
Top