Actually I suspect we'll get tons of issues from this option. The new god might turn out favoring Stalinist control over economic growth for example. Navigating the development of mainstream economic theory could be fun.

I'm not really seeing Stalinist. The central government gives too much power and autonomy to the local authorities from what I know of Stalinist.

Which really makes sense since for Arthwyd everything is delegated by the state, all metal products are created for state needs, any luxury artifacts are created for the priesthood needs, or royalty as simbol of status but even then i assume are property od the community. The way things are run community dictates how much you can get day by day. It at least impression i get.

Pretty much the case except the Arthwydysh people are still people and they like their luxuries. Actually, the average people of the Arthwyd Empire have more luxuries than their counterparts in other civs as the Arthwyd Empire is not wealthier than all of its neighbours, but the society does its best to evenly and fairly distribute luxuries to everyone.

In fact, the Arthwyd are very fond of their luxuries and most of their trade consists of providing practical goods in exchange for luxury goods.

@Oshha Where are the nearest kulaks?

Forluc Kingdom without double checking.
 
In fact, the Arthwyd are very fond of their luxuries and most of their trade consists of providing practical goods in exchange for luxury goods.

Which will generally be a problem when we base our money on the word.
Basically no one is going to sell high quality products for entire population worth for what they basically see as paper.

Though in case of Arthwyd they really need to transition from state controlled model, only saving grace for them is the fact that they have technical edge over the others, a fact that won't keep forever. After that happens they will be faced with crisis similar to USSR when oil prices dropped.
 
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I will also like to state that the Arthwyd Empire doesn't intend to use currency internally as their economy isn't set up for that. It will be something they used to interact with other members of the Caermyr Union.

Also as of right now, the currency isn't intend to be used outside of the Caermyr Union and only with the Caermyr Union amongst its member states.

Basically no one is going to see high quality products that are entire population worth for what they basically see as paper.

First of all, paper isn't a thing that the Caermyr Union uses. Secondly, if a priestess says that goddesses say this thing is worth such and such, then the average person will believe it is worth such and such as the Caermyr Union is fundamentally theocratic in its social structure and beliefs.
 
I will also like to state that the Arthwyd Empire doesn't intend to use currency internally as their economy isn't set up for that. It will be something they used to interact with other members of the Caermyr Union.

Also as of right now, the currency isn't intend to be used outside of the Caermyr Union and only with the Caermyr Union amongst its member states.



First of all, paper isn't a thing that the Caermyr Union uses. Secondly, if a priestess says that goddesses say this thing is worth such and such, then the average person will believe it is worth such and such as the Caermyr Union is fundamentally theocratic in its social structure and beliefs.

I mean when it comes to trade with wider world.

But we also must take into consideration diversety of social structure in the Union. Basically one one side we have Arthwyd empire with it's own set of values and on other rest of the union.

Basically if something is valued in Furloc kingdom but not in Arthwyd empire if priests say that that thing isn't valuable lot of people in rest of the Union will be left out of Business.
 
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An Arthrynite deity born from fiat money controlled by the Arthrynite priesthood is going to be different to a Forlucan deity born from currency that is based off of the value of the material used in its momentary units.
Tying money to gold has the potential to fuel greedy hoarding practices though, so I'm iffy in spite of the relative ease of implementation.

If we pick a monetary standard tied to Gold, then we get a Forlucan diety looking over it. The Forlucan pantheon believes in hierarchies, they enforce a system where some people are inherently better and more powerful than others.

If we pick a Forlucan diety, then greedy hoarding practices won't be a failure mode. It will be the intention of the design.
The Forlucan pantheon was created and enforces a system where you have a superior rich upper class and an inferior impoverished underclass.
 
Why do we even want more gods anyway?
Forluc Kingdom without double checking.


Well, I know what my new goal is!
Which will generally be a problem when we base our money on the word.
Basically no one is going to sell high quality products for entire population worth for what they basically see as paper.

Though in case of Arthwyd they really need to transition from state controlled model, only saving grace for them is the fact that they have technical edge over the others, a fact that won't keep forever. After that happens they will be faced with crisis similar to USSR when oil prices dropped.
All wealth is an illusion. The only difference is that instead of capitalist trickery, the Arthwyd will rely on literal divine intervention to prop up their economy. :rolleyes:
 
Though in case of Arthwyd they really need to transition from state controlled model, only saving grace for them is the fact that they have technical edge over the others, a fact that won't keep forever. After that happens they will be faced with crisis similar to USSR when oil prices dropped.

Not really.

All the failures of the state controlled model are eliminated through divine intervention. Given that, the state controlled model is likely more productive and stable than free market based systems.
 
If we pick a monetary standard tied to Gold, then we get a Forlucan diety looking over it. The Forlucan pantheon believes in hierarchies, they enforce a system where some people are inherently better and more powerful than others.

If we pick a Forlucan diety, then greedy hoarding practices won't be a failure mode. It will be the intention of the design.
The Forlucan pantheon was created and enforces a system where you have a superior rich upper class and an inferior impoverished underclass.
The "gold standard" is supported by the Urthdysh, not the Forlucans.
 
Not really.

All the failures of the state controlled model are eliminated through divine intervention. Given that, the state controlled model is likely more productive and stable than free market based systems.
Ah yes, the wonders of "divine intervention" make it so that SV can both have its cake and eat it too. :rolleyes:
 
Not really.

All the failures of the state controlled model are eliminated through divine intervention. Given that, the state controlled model is likely more productive and stable than free market based systems.

If that is true than we wouldn't be completely trashed in this war and wouldn't have to worry about any our decision because divine intervention would solved it all.

And no state controlled model isn't efficient, it's probe to stagnation, ignores consumer needs and marketing. Plus this goes beyond state controlled model, it literally based our entire economy around the word of the priestess.

It literally ignores the fact that if it happens many businesses in Union will be hit first because suddenly they will need to base their value on what Arthwyd consider is right instead of taking into consideration universal value of gods.
 
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If that is true than we wouldn't be completely trashed in this war and wouldn't have to worry about any our decision because divine intervention would solved it all.

And no state controlled model isn't efficient, it's probe to stagnation, ignores consumer needs and marketing. Plus this goes beyond state controlled model, it literally based our entire economy around the word of the priestess.

It literally ignores the fact that if it happens many businesses in Union will be hit first because suddenly they will need to base their value on what Arthwyd consider is right instead of taking into consideration universal value of gods.
I'm just going to point out that it's the State Controlled Economy which is the only one still in the fight. The other two are broken. So, using the war as an example kinda blows up your own point.

The loss of efficiency is the result of communication failures and the complexity of managing an economy. Divine intervention resolves these issues. With a central, magical coordination system there is no issue matching production to demand. Similarly, the ignoring of consumer needs is impossible thanks to Empathy generating magic and all that. Marketing meanwhile isn't needed for an economy, in fact it just exists to encourage waste by distorting information on what consumers actually need, in favor of what the companies want to sell.

Basically, I think you're trying to argue against a strawman of my point. I'm not saying that divine intervention will solve every issue. I'm saying that divine intervention has solved the primary issues you see with planned economies.

Edit: Also, you seem to be confused on what we're actually voting for. We're not voting for someone to decide what each thing is worth. We're voting for someone to be steward of the currency and set monetary policy.
 
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I'm just going to point out that it's the State Controlled Economy which is the only one still in the fight. The other two are broken.

The loss of efficiency is the result of communication failures and the complexity of managing an economy. Divine intervention resolves these issues. With a central, magical coordination system there is no issue. Similarly, the ignoring of consumer needs is impossible thanks to Empathy generating magic and all that. Marketting meanwhile isn't needed for an economy, in fact it just exists to encourage waste by distorting information on what consumers actually need, in favor of what the companies want to sell.

We cannot base our entire system around divine intervention. There's a limit to that, there are the real consequences of our decisions.

You are literally ignoring the fact that rest of the union aren't state economies and the consequences this will create for them.
 
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[X] Currency that is backed by the word and goddesses of the Arthwyd Empire.

Voting this way to avoid a new Forluc god from popping up. Especially one that will become integral to the economy of three major civilisations.
 
Edit: Also, you seem to be confused on what we're actually voting for. We're not voting for someone to decide what each thing is worth. We're voting for someone to be steward of the currency and set monetary policy.

Yes and we are not voting on new God as well which from the looks of it is the thing here.

Basically we are literally giving one member state power to control our entire finances, ignore all the consequences. Ignore the fact how rest of the world will set it's own monetary policy and how it will mess with ours.
 
We cannot base our entire system around divine intervention. There's a limit to that, there are the real consequences of our decisions.

You are literally ignoring the fact that rest of the union aren't state economies and the consequences this will create for them.
Sure, and neither are the rest of the union all market economies, or whatever weirdness the Urthrynites are doing.

There's always going to be an issue with using 1 policy for 3 radically different economic strategies. But given the choice between 1 God who'll try to go for balance and another who likes the idea of a hierarchy where you have a rich upper class and an impoverished lower class, I'm going for the former.
 
Sure, and neither are the rest of the union all market economies, or whatever weirdness the Urthrynites are doing.

There's always going to be an issue with using 1 policy for 3 radically different economic strategies. But given the choice between 1 God who'll try to go for balance and another who likes the idea of a hierarchy where you have a rich upper class and an impoverished lower class, I'm going for the former.

Yup, I'm sure that that Furloc goddess that was Arthyrn's champion is 100% evil deity.

The point here is literally on what we base our fiscal policy, both Furloc and Urthydish system base it around something while we base it around will of the gods! And the fact that priests told us it's so.
 
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Yup, I'm sure that that Furloc goddess that was Arthyrn's champion is 100% evil deity.

The point here is literally on what we base our fiscal policy, both Furloc and Urthydish system base it around something while we base it around will of the gods! And the fact that priests told us it's so.
To be fair, in Chronicles of Nations, the will of the gods is definitely a something.
 
If we pick a Forlucan diety, then greedy hoarding practices won't be a failure mode. It will be the intention of the design.
The Forlucan pantheon was created and enforces a system where you have a superior rich upper class and an inferior impoverished underclass.

Actually, the Forluc consider an impoverished underclass to be undesirable and a sign of failure. It is a point of superiority that a noble is able to ensure that their peasants are doing well if your peasants are doing poorly, your rivals will leap at the chance to point out how you are a failure compared to them with their non-impoverished peasants. The Forlucan upper class consider making things worst for your inferiors to be a sign of your own inferiority as you are unable to maintain your own superiority except relative to others. They desire to be giants amongst men not men amongst dwarves.

As a result, the Forluc upper classes are incentised to avoid an impoverished underclass because it makes them looks bad and exposes a weakness to their rivals. That isn't to say that it doesn't happen, but it isn't considered desirable by the Forluc under their system.

All the failures of the state controlled model are eliminated through divine intervention. Given that, the state controlled model is likely more productive and stable than free market based systems.

I wouldn't say that it is divine intervention. While religion is very important to pretty much any society in this era, it more due to economic and social factors than any deities directly intervening. First of all, the Arthwyd are built around a communal social unit and while that is arguably the result of divine intervention, I consider it to be important as the Arthwyd are built around a group calling the shots compared to individuals. This has also resulted in the Arthwyd only having a state controlled economy as

Secondly, the Arthwyd are rich and haven't had a shortage of resources. This has allowed to be inefficient in their resources usage because they got enough resources to make up for wasting some.

Third, the Arthwyd have different priorities. Their economy is built around their community providing for the individuals that make it up and not about procuring the most resources or acquiring as much wealth as possible. So while their economy could be more efficient at maximising resource production and allocation to get the maximum amount of resources in play, the Arthwyd consider that undesirable as they want to make sure that everyone is looked after. So as long as everyone has their basic needs met, the Arthwyd consider being inefficient with their resources to be acceptable trade-off.

Fourthly, the Arthwyd are only nominally/de jure centralised. In practice, they are de facto decentralised with vast amounts of power being given to the local authorities in settlements of which most are self-sufficient. Their centralisation government works due to it being an honour system that everyone believes in due to wanting to help the overall community that they are a part of. Each local authority gets to decide how things are done locally, how the resources are distributed and produced along with what resources to send further up the government chain.

The Arthwyd state-controlled models still has its inefficiencies and failures, but they are considered acceptable trade-offs by Arthwydsh society and the vast wealth of the Arthwyd Empire lets it migrate the problems of its plan economy due to having enough resources to allow for being inefficient with resource output and usage.
 
To be fair, in Chronicles of Nations, the will of the gods is definitely a something.

Arthwyd are literally able to do what they can do because they have lot of resources, as their population grows they will have less which means that they will need to trade with rest of the world more, as that happens they will one day offer them their currency which will btw consists from word of the god which other civs don't recognise.

After that happens all the failures of Arthwyd system will come to light population which was once rich will become poor.

You can't base you policy on the word of the God because everyone have a word of the Gods.

We can either take option that helps us coexist with rest of the world, or we can don't and burn that bridge down. So let's keep gods out of the economy.
 
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Actually, the Forluc consider an impoverished underclass to be undesirable and a sign of failure. It is a point of superiority that a noble is able to ensure that their peasants are doing well if your peasants are doing poorly, your rivals will leap at the chance to point out how you are a failure compared to them with their non-impoverished peasants. The Forlucan upper class consider making things worst for your inferiors to be a sign of your own inferiority as you are unable to maintain your own superiority except relative to others. They desire to be giants amongst men not men amongst dwarves.

As a result, the Forluc upper classes are incentised to avoid an impoverished underclass because it makes them looks bad and exposes a weakness to their rivals. That isn't to say that it doesn't happen, but it isn't considered desirable by the Forluc under their system.

There's only a limited amount of resources to go around. That means that de facto, the creation of an enriched and much more prosperous upper class must come from the creation of an impoverished lower class. Now, social competition may set a lower boundary on just how impoverished you can make your impoverished lower class, but all that means is that the entirety of the society will have the same shitty situation.
 
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There's only a limited amount of resources to go around. That means that de facto, the creation of an enriched and much more prosperous upper class must come from the creation of an impoverished lower class.

Except the fact that you are ignoring that Arthwyd are literally communal based society, other civs are family based.

You will not eliminate class difference by doing this, you will just make upper classes change their priorities. Upper classes in Furloc, or Urthydish will still exist, they will just exploit the population for the new values.

Fact is Arthwyd nee to reform their economy, they will need to set gold standard, or some other kind of standard down the line.
 
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We cannot base our entire system around divine intervention. There's a limit to that, there are the real consequences of our decisions.
This! I've been saying this for a while, but people have proven that they would again and again rather trust in "the gods" to paper over our issues. Which is why I think this:
I am going to say yes, that giving responsibility to the Arthwyd will give them a goddess with a wealth domain though not necessarily Arthryn. Actually, I'm going to say that it would give them a new deity of wealth or trade or something along those lines.
This is going to be the case. Either Arthryn adopts a new kid for the Arthrynite pantheon or the Forluc Kingdom adds a new deity to their pantheon.
Was a mistake. Besides the fact that getting a new god was supposed to be much harder now, it turns what should've been a discussion about "what economic/monetary system do you think is better/would you like to see?" into "who do you want to have a new god?", to which SV's response is of course going to be "us, because other people can't be trusted".
 
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