Well, if we seemed to be a strange inhuman thing, some strange EDE-spawned being that potentially gains power from eating bodies and is *gasp* Hindu and had a highly Trad-like Awakening...that'd probably be enough for a first bout of panic.

And then after they've fed Meg human flesh once or twice, well...they've kinda committed, haven't they?

I mean, literally the first thing they did was find a way to feed us long pork. Once they've done that, it gets harder and harder to actually back out of this shit.
Again, you are just seeing the result. You are not seeing, which we don't even know, the why, which might just reveal even more terrible shit.

Like I am reminded of Gunnerkrigg Court where Tom managed to play everyone like the world greatest violinist when it came to Anthony, where people just assumed that the most evident and right answer was that he was just an shitty and abusive dad. And then it turns out that the actual reasons and events are just so much worse for everyone. It doesn't make him less shitty, but it made things that much more complicated.

And I think it's the same here. Where the why, how and what doesn't excuse the shitty things, but it does make things far more complicated.
 
To touch on the brainwashing a bit it's...enh.

As I understand it and sorta branching off of what @Revlid said the Union likes to portray itself as Big Brother's big brother, they are in every smoky backroom, every shadowy server farm, every darkened alley. Always watching and always waiting.

The extent to which they can actually do that depends on what kind of game you're running but even in Revised it's acknowledged that this is sorta propaganda. The Union has finite resources and finite personnel and was badly taxed by the Anomaly/Avatar Storm. And brainwashing fits into that because it's entirely to the Union's advantage to have all the Trads and Vampires and wuffs thinking that they can mindfuck you into axemurdering your family with but a glance of their mirrorshades. But like...

In practice intense brainwashing is something that they can do (and do utilize for the ATLAS program) but it's complex and invasive and long term and involves basically breaking down the brain and building up something new. Disassembling your essential self is not something that's quick or convenient. They can do subtler things to be sure but that's usually hard to distinguish from "just makes a really really persuasive argument that appeals to you" with the way the NWO works.

Honestly it's more likely that they'll just...make Lakshmi feel like she belongs heh. And that's all they'll have to do.



go down

well

if you insist~



i mean

we put a fucking crater in reinforced (probably primium laced) stone and didn't even shatter our hand

Even more evidence that we're dangerous and have to be locked up!

Next they'll poke us with sticks and then when we yell at them, that'll be proof of a "Hostile Temperment." :V

(More seriously, when left alone to his own devices, Meg watched Netflix and maybe played video games. Dangerous future reality-terrorist monster trying to burn down civilization he ain't.)
 
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(More seriously, when left alone to his own devices, Meg watched Netflix and maybe played video games. Dangerous future reality-terrorist monster trying to burn down civilization he ain't.)
I mean, again, Mages can literally see/predict the future. It's very possible that they got an forecasts that says that Meg is going to be involved in some big shit and now they are trying to figure out how it could happen and how to prevent it/change it for the better.
 
I mean, again Mages can literally see/predict the future. It's very possible that they got an forecasts that says that Meg is going to be involved in some big shit and now they are trying to figure out how it could happen and how to prevent it/change it for the better.

Put simply, that seems like a cheap plot point at best.

Like, maybe this should go into a cliche's you can't stand, but while seeing the future/having visions of the future can make for an interesting narrative at times, this tendency for authors to retroactively justify everything with prophecy or 'they saw in the future and knew' is sorta stupid, and so I suspect that Zerban wouldn't do that.[1]

It's also why I never could get into the Foundation stuff, because his Psychohistory (it's not called that) is that same sort of shit.

[1] I say this as a slight hypocrite, having actually used future-vision in one of my own Quests in a certain way, but it is still something I don't think would work too well here, in a world where the Technocracy already has a long list of self-justification already present.
 
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Honestly it's more likely that they'll just...make Lakshmi feel like she belongs heh. And that's all they'll have to do.

I'm more worried about what happens after we leave. As far as Lakshmi knows, we were in quarantine in a pretty nice room. Then suddenly we're a violent man-eating monster who's escaped containment. I doubt the Technocracy is going to tell her "Yeah Meg was totally fine until we force fed him human meat and drugs. Then your dad helped him escape when it got worse. Our bad." More likely "Your brother was infected by the crazy mutants and we definitely were trying to cure him until he escaped."
 
Put simply, that seems like a cheap plot point at best.

Like, maybe this should go into a cliche's you can't stand, but while seeing the future/having visions of the future can make for an interesting narrative at times, this tendency for authors to retroactively justify everything with prophecy or 'they saw in the future and knew' is sorta stupid, and so I suspect that Zerban wouldn't do that.

It's also why I never could get into the Foundation stuff, because his Psychohistory (it's not called that) is that same sort of shit.
Yes but again, it is well established in the setting that Mages can see the future. That's literally how it works. It's how the Golden Chalice can track down reincarnated Nephandus and kill them before they can do much harm. It's how Mages prevent each other from enacting rituals that would end the world. It's why Mages are Infowar gods.

Like it's not 100% reliable, as can be seen by how the Avatar Storm caught everyone with their pants down, but it is an ability that Mages have.

Cheap plot point or not, them not being able to do so would be a huge plot hole. And frankly I trust Zerban to be a good enough writer to make it work.
 
To go back to this: a) no he wasn't, and b) what makes you think he has a choice?

Remember how dad told the Technocracy literally nothing about us and vice versa because he didn't want them finding out about either of us? Remember how he burned significant resources on keeping us safe without letting the Technocracy have so much as casual contact with us? Remember how uncomfortable he was with how enthusiastic Lakshmi was being about her new "opportunities"? Remember how he only called in Technocracy support when it became clear that it was that or let us get eaten by werewolves?

Yes, and that implies that joining the Technocracy, as bad as it might be, is considered less awful than death. Incidentally, you're forgetting the other thing. Given that mom is clearly not a Technocrat, they probably didn't want us in the Ascension War at all. So Lakshmi being an enthusiastic Technocrat is probably making him feel guilty at least in part because of that. He might not have betrayed her, but he certainly betrayed her mother.

Remember how he refused to so much as meet our eye since we entered Technocracy custody?

These are not the actions of a man who trusts his bosses to do right by his kids.

Yes, and he still said that they'd end up together again and he'd explain everything then. Either he's lying on the Technocracy's behalf-because he certainly didn't need to say that-or things escalated from here. I think the very fact that this is not only a huge betrayal of the love of his life but creates a chance, however small, that his kids are going to die in combat is more than enough to make him concerned about his kids getting found out. Like, the theory that he knew exactly what was going to happen, rather than this entire thing escalating far beyond everything and anything he expected, requires him to be actively lying on behalf of the Technocracy.

In fact, here's another question. How the fuck does he even know we're here? Or what we are? If he had known at birth, I think he'd have kept us even farther away from the Technocracy. I suspect they're still telling him what his son is, and on the counterpart that means he has some influence there. Clearly not enough to go through official channels and let us go, but definitely some.

Dad knew exactly what would happen to us both the moment the Technocracy found us. Lakshmi pulled out of school and conscripted. Meghanda shoved in a cell and vivisected until they can safely discard him. He knew all of that, and it terrified and disgusted him. He's still with the Technocracy because what the fuck else is he going to do, bust out that sick magic-accountant kung fu and run off with us both into the outback?

As of Revised? Yes. People switch sides. It happens when the sides are more "unfriendly business rivals" than "actual opposing ideologies in a war." Iteration X is infamously a revolving door leading to the Virtual Adepts and the Virtual Adepts are a revolving door leading to Iteration X. He's the kind of guy who could walk away, has the resources to walk away, and if they're locking Meg up that means they're so scared of us that this is like, not high on their priorities list.

Even more evidence that we're dangerous and have to be locked up!

Next they'll poke us with sticks and then when we yell at them, that'll be proof of a "Hostile Temperment." :V

(More seriously, when left alone to his own devices, Meg watched Netflix and maybe played video games. Dangerous future reality-terrorist monster trying to burn down civilization he ain't.)

I guess we're going to be assuming that the Technocracy are just the 1E Technocracy and are stupid evil and do everything for bad reasons, and everything should be read in the most damaging light possible, right?
 
(More seriously, when left alone to his own devices, Meg watched Netflix and maybe played video games. Dangerous future reality-terrorist monster trying to burn down civilization he ain't.)

And in the more secure cell they're giving him that long pork (which seems to have a mildly narcotic effect) and a fuckload of sedatives. They're still trying to keep him docile albeit in significantly more extreme measure and it seems like they want him actually awake as little as possible.

[1] I say this as a slight hypocrite, having actually used future-vision in one of my own Quests in a certain way, but it is still something I don't think would work too well here, in a world where the Technocracy already has a long list of self-justification already present.

Yeah like @Deadly Snark says it's something that Mages can canonically do. The issue is that like...there are ways to subvert and obfuscate still and major Mage-on-Mage conflicts tend to have a lot of temporal jamming and wards around them.
 
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I guess we're going to be assuming that the Technocracy are just the 1E Technocracy and are stupid evil and do everything for bad reasons, and everything should be read in the most damaging light possible, right?

Dude, I made multiple posts explaining the logic of how this overreaction would take place. Unless it's your claim that authoritarians can't overreact and then stick to their guns?

Or, being blunt, that humans in general can't overreact and then stick to their guns?

Is me literally saying that the Technocracy is composed of humans who can make mistakes now some vile attack on your beloved Technocracy?
 
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Dude, I made multiple posts explaining the logic of how this overreaction would take place. Unless it's your claim that authoritarians can't overreact and then stick to their guns?

Or, being blunt, that humans in general can't overreact and then stick to their guns?
And again, Overreaction in hindsight does not happen without a good reason behind it.
 
I'm more worried about what happens after we leave. As far as Lakshmi knows, we were in quarantine in a pretty nice room. Then suddenly we're a violent man-eating monster who's escaped containment. I doubt the Technocracy is going to tell her "Yeah Meg was totally fine until we force fed him human meat and drugs. Then your dad helped him escape when it got worse. Our bad." More likely "Your brother was infected by the crazy mutants and we definitely were trying to cure him until he escaped."

The thing is, Meg started having those angry dreams and punching concrete when he stopped eating human flesh. Not when he was, at which point he was fine and not flipping out.
 
In fact, here's another question. How the fuck does he even know we're here? Or what we are? If he had known at birth, I think he'd have kept us even farther away from the Technocracy. I suspect they're still telling him what his son is, and on the counterpart that means he has some influence there. Clearly not enough to go through official channels and let us go, but definitely some.
Plus, as I have argued over and over, if our parents knew and they still decided that sticking us close to the Technocracy was the safest thing for us, just the implications are astounding.
 
And again, Overreaction in hindsight does not happen without a good reason behind it.

And I listed what might seem like a whole host of perfectly good reasons with the possibility that they weren't actually good reasons.

Also you're kinda wrong.

Overreaction happens all the time without a good reason behind it.

There's usually a reason behind it, or at least something that causes it, but that's just blatantly false.

The thing is, Meg started having those angry dreams and punching concrete when he stopped eating human flesh. Not when he was, at which point he was fine and not flipping out.

Dude. You're actually factually wrong. He never stopped eating flesh. He stopped willingly eating flesh...and so they force-fed it to him.

He'd wake up time and again with the taste of the pork in his mouth. I could quote the actual update.

I think?

Reading it again, it's not entirely clear, but I'd also be confused if they weren't force-feeding him because that's what it sounds like with all of the IV and experimental stuff.
 
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And I listed what might seem like a whole host of perfectly good reasons with the possibility that they weren't actually good reasons.

Also you're kinda wrong.

Overreaction happens all the time without a good reason behind it.
And as I have argued, those could actually be good reasons depending on what we find down the rabbit hole.

Overreaction from organisations happen for reasons that makes sense for the people making it. They don't necessarily have to make sense for the people that are not in the organisation, so long as they are good reasons to the ones making the decision.

And again, Overreaction by the world dominating shadow conspiracy that can see the future is not something that just happens willy nilly, because they have a shitton of resources and the ability to see the future, so whatever it is that provoked such actions from them is probably something really big.
 
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If he had known at birth, I think he'd have kept us even farther away from the Technocracy.

Maybe-so maybe-no I mean he still wanted to be a part of their life. He transferred to a part of the Union that didn't have him jetting across the world every weekend and let him give the kids a stable life, let them still see their mother. Honestly if he's a Re-Org guy (who are, incidentally, not well loved among non-Syndics) he's probably gotten an eyeful of Syndics who leave their kids with the nanny in some bunker or force their kids through sci-fi hell-Hogwarts and he...honestly just seems like the kind of guy who wouldn't want that for his family.

He still loves his wife and he loves us and probably thought that, y'know, as long as we didn't Awaken that everything would be fine.

Keep in mind too, Dad's an implied combat veteran. He was working in Bangladesh, as an Enforcer in the field (not!Tobin Bell said "operational capacity" which is just loaded with innuendo), during the Ravnos/Kuei-jin War. He's probably seen some shit and would probably rather his family be close than in some suburbia in Smalltown USA.

The thing is, Meg started having those angry dreams and punching concrete when he stopped eating human flesh. Not when he was, at which point he was fine and not flipping out.

Narcotic does sorta seem like a good equivalency. It's good. It makes us happy. It's probably loaded with other benefits too.

We don't have to but like @Havocfett said...we're gonna want to.
 
And as I have argued, those could actually be good reasons depending on what we find down the rabbit hole.

Overreaction from organisations happen for reasons that makes sense for the people making it. They don't necessarily have to make sense for the people that are not in the organisation, so long as they are good reasons for the ones making the decision.

And again, Overreaction by the world dominating shadow conspiracy that can see the future is not something that just happens willy nilly, because they have a shitton of resources and the ability to see the future, so whatever it is that provoke such actions from them is probably something really big.

Except the world dominating shadow conspiracy is made up of parts.

Cogs in the machine.

The actual, like, Technocracy in the sense of the people in charge don't know we even exist, probably.

The overreaction is coming not from the entire shadow conspiracy, but from whatever cog/branch is in charge of this part of it. Their threshold of panic is, you know, a little lower.

If we were actually panicking the world dominating shadow conspiracy (like the whole thing) we'd be an actual God about to destroy a country or something.
 
I think the obvious answer here as to why the TU is doing this is to provoke a response. We'd have been kept in a very nice secure room with plenty of entertainment and reasons for us to not Hulk out otherwise. They want to see what we, our father, and our sister all do with the whole "Meg is trapped in a cage." Can we control ourselves or are we going to go psycho on our dad?

No vote as of yet for me though, need to mull this over. I'm leaning towards the "force" option because it's in character but it's definitely the bad option
 
I think the obvious answer here as to why the TU is doing this is to provoke a response. We'd have been kept in a very nice secure room with plenty of entertainment and reasons for us to not Hulk out otherwise. They want to see what we, our father, and our sister all do with the whole "Meg is trapped in a cage." Can we control ourselves or are we going to go psycho on our dad?

No vote as of yet for me though, need to mull this over. I'm leaning towards the "force" option because it's in character but it's definitely the bad option

I don't really know that it's the bad option. I mean, other options include saying nothing and ignoring our Dad...

And breaking out of there and going on the run (which might be better, maybe, but certainly puts us at long odds of escaping.)

Compared to that, trying to force our father to just tell us the truth is not that bad.
 
Dude, I made multiple posts explaining the logic of how this overreaction would take place. Unless it's your claim that authoritarians can't overreact and then stick to their guns?

Or, being blunt, that humans in general can't overreact and then stick to their guns?

Is me literally saying that the Technocracy is composed of humans who can make mistakes now some vile attack on your beloved Technocracy?

The logic you're making is literally "this is some creature which gains superpowers and is super angry after eating human flesh."

"LET'S FEED HIM BOBS."

"BRILLIANT IDEA PIP PIP OLD CHAP."

Literally the 1E Technocracy here. Like, this isn't an overreaction because an overreaction would be "This guy is dangerous." "Oh god keep him away from us."

I think they were feeding us people to keep us sedated while they figured out what the fuck they were going to do with us. Notice the angry dreams and rages started coming after we stopped eating people. The stuff calms him down. So I don't think the logic which is "this guy becomes powerful when eating human flesh" is sensible. I think it's the opposite. Meg is dangerous when he's not being fed people, and Meg's hunger for it is not going to abate.

Which, incidentally, is pretty good reason to keep someone locked up. :V

I mean, it's not exactly fair to him because he never asked for this, but I think "this guy gets angry when denied human bits to eat" is not a bad reason to keep someone away from people.
 
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Except the world dominating shadow conspiracy is made up of parts.

Cogs in the machine.

The actual, like, Technocracy in the sense of the people in charge don't know we even exist, probably.

The overreaction is coming not from the entire shadow conspiracy, but from whatever cog/branch is in charge of this part of it. Their threshold of panic is, you know, a little lower.

If we were actually panicking the world dominating shadow conspiracy (like the whole thing) we'd be an actual God about to destroy a country or something.
That doesn't address my point you know.

Those cogs still have access to an immense amount of resources/connections and can still see the future. My point still stands that whatever can make a group/organisation of technocrats overreact when Post-Avatar Storm they make it a point of going for a softer touch is going to be something big.

Dude. You're actually factually wrong. He never stopped eating flesh. He stopped willingly eating flesh...and so they force-fed it to him.

He'd wake up time and again with the taste of the pork in his mouth. I could quote the actual update.

I think?

Reading it again, it's not entirely clear, but I'd also be confused if they weren't force-feeding him because that's what it sounds like with all of the IV and experimental stuff.
One of my other points. We don't know. Things are messy and confusing and we don't know what is going on. It is tempting to assume the worst and automatically make their moves seem even worse like you are doing right now, and maybe your assumptions are correct. But we don't know, we lack too much information.

In this sort of situation the worst thing we can do is to jump to conclusions.
Ya know, speaking of mum. If Lak's a Demi-god and we're a Hindu Demon dude, what the hell is she?
She's obviously Hindu Boss.

Would that make us Hindu Demon Big Boss?
 
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The logic you're making is literally "this is some creature which gains superpowers and is super angry after eating human flesh."

"LET'S FEED HIM BOBS."

"BRILLIANT IDEA PIP PIP OLD CHAP."

Literally the 1E Technocracy here. Like, this isn't an overreaction because an overreaction would be "This guy is dangerous." "Oh god keep him away from us."

I think they were feeding us people to keep us sedated while they figured out what the fuck they were going to do with us. Notice the angry dreams and rages started coming after we stopped eating people. So I don't think the logic which is "this guy becomes powerful when eating human flesh" is sensible. I think it's the opposite. Meg is dangerous when he's not being fed people, and Meg's hunger for it is not going to abate.

Says the person who literally sees nothing wrong with what they've done so far.

Like, if that's actually how it worked and we needed to eat human flesh to keep from going stir crazy, then they could have, you know, put us in a normal room, fed us, and then, you know, actually told us literally anything at all before starting to experiment on us and keeping us in a box.

Like, you don't even seem capable of acknowledging they might have made a mistake.

That doesn't address my point you know.

Those cogs still have access to an immense amount of resources/connections and can still see the future. My point still stands that whatever can make a group/organisation of technocrats overreact when Post-Avatar Storm they make it a point of going for a softer touch is going to be something big.


One of my other points. We don't know. Things are messy and confusing and we don't know what is going on. It is tempting to assume the worst and automatically make their moves seem even worse like you are doing right now, and maybe your assumptions are correct. But we don't know, we lack too much information.

In this sort of situation the worst thing we can do is to jump to conclusions.

They are torturing us and experimenting on us. Like, even if they have the best reasons in the world[1], Meg also has the best reasons in the world to want absolutely nothing to do with them ever again.

I'm going to, you know, play IC instead of speculating that surely there's a great reason why they're doing all this.

[1] I'm sure they have what they think are decent reasons.
 
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I don't really know that it's the bad option. I mean, other options include saying nothing and ignoring our Dad...

And breaking out of there and going on the run (which might be better, maybe, but certainly puts us at long odds of escaping.)

Compared to that, trying to force our father to just tell us the truth is not that bad.
This situation is screaming "engineered" to me. Team "put him in the ground" is watching us in the cameras, hoping that we try something so they can utilize extreme prejudice.

Like, I'm not going to defend then Gitmoing us, but lashing out feels like an obvious trap
 
They are torturing us and experimenting on us. Like, even if they have the best reasons in the world, Meg also has the best reasons in the world to want absolutely nothing to do with them ever again.
I'm not saying that he doesn't. I am saying that's exactly why he can't jump to conclusions right now, because one wrong move could lead him either to death or down a path where he becomes something the current him would rather die than to become.
 
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