The Lonely Lioness - Cersei Lannister Quest

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BoSPaladin said:
You named Edmure hand. Offer him a hand. Offer to betroth Myrcella to Robb and Cersei to Edmure. If we can get them that's two entire armies.
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Sorry, but i don't see much value in marrying Edmure. We already gave him the title of hand of the king, if that isn't enough to gain his loyalty, nothing will.
On the matter of Robb and Myrcella, i don't see him ever accepting it. A wife, even a king's daughter won't clean the bad blood between us.

Parzival95 said:
Well I'll drop my Kingsguard actions then, and just hope Joffery appoints some people.

Edit: Actually, how about this letter guys?

-[] Write to your son, King Joffery of the marriage alliance you've brokered with the Tyells and the small council position you've offered. Ask him to keep an eye for talented knights to shore up his Kingsguard while he's on campaign, especially considering Blounts cowardice. Advise that Boros should be sent to the wall and replaced - ideally Riverlander and Reach knights should be considered as those kingdoms will be vital to the Realms stability in the coming years. Finally, advise your son that you expect his grandfather really will try to take either the Handship or Regency for himself. Father always was too proud for his own good, and desires control more than anything, increasingly to the point of self sabotage. You do not believe he was behind the assassination, but nor do you believe it was Stark or Tully. We already have enough enemies without inviting more. Nonetheless, you're proud of him, and believe he has what it takes to reunite the realm and expel the invaders.
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Sounds good, but i think we should open with being pround of him instead of leaving it at the end, and also add our relief that he's well and survived the assassination atempt. You know, to show the mother's love and all. It was pointed out that he and Cersei have grown distant, and we haven't done much to fix that yet.
 
Metalbard said:
Sorry, but i don't see much value in marrying Edmure. We already gave him the title of hand of the king, if that isn't enough to gain his loyalty, nothing will.
On the matter of Robb and Myrcella, i don't see him ever accepting it. A wife, even a king's daughter won't clean the bad blood between us.
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I'm honestly asking. Are you roleplaying Cersei here?

Because to say you don't see the value in locking in an Alliance with one of the seven kingdoms? That just seems strange to me.

As for the office of hand being enough to gain his loyalty... I'm uhh. Pretty sure he Waved at the previous hand whom we sent to the wall as he passed him on the road.

Naming someone Hand is no great boon when we sit the Iron Throne ourselves as Queen Regent. And again, what do we do when he comes to take his place as hand? Stand meekly aside? Strip the office from him as we did his sisters husband?

Half the crownlands are burning. Storms End is already a burned wreck. And we need solid allies.

That means Real, actual concessions.

And yes. It is also entirely Possible that Robb refuses any match with Myrcella. Thus the plan to more securely tie the Tully/Stark/Arryn Alliance to us by marraige and blood.
 
I'm not actually sure Azel would let us marry Edmure? Theoretically, we are playing her, so we can make her do things she wouldn't normally do. But at the same time, it's still Cersei, her character comes through in the narrative.

My current thinking is that if we tried it'd be a disaster. Maybe Cersei would have a mental breakdown if we tried to have her do it of her own voilition. Maybe she'd be so fucked up about it she's make it as miserable and awful for herself and Edmure as possible. Or maybe she just wouldn't do it, write it off within her mind.

I can't imagine trying wouldn't be penalized.
 
Yeah, I agree with you, especially when Jaime's death is still fresh in her mind. I don't think Cersei can handle a marriage with anyone right now without coming to despise the other person for not being Jaime.
 
I think with Jaime dead, Cersei will eventually be ready to move on, but probably only to someone she's genuinely interested in. Who that person could be, I have no idea, but I think it's fairly settled canon that she resents being used as a bargaining chip.

It's slightly more likely than her sending her children away (the situation with Joffery is different, though I'm sure that stresses her out as well), but probably not for anything less than dire necessity.
 
The moment for the pardon has passed. Going back now would be a sign of weakness, but there may be further opportunities to convince Renly to bend in the future as circumstances permit.
 
[X] Plan: Consolidation of Power

Parzival95 said:
[X] Plan: Consolidation of Power
-[X] [Pycelle] Force him to volunteer to the Nights Watch.
-[X] [Replacement] Let the Citadel assign a new Grand Maester as it is custom. (Free)
-[X] Try to recruit some trusted informants of your own.
-[X] Speak with the Tyrell household. You will soon be family, so it is a good moment to learn more about Olenna and Margaery.
-[X] Write to your son, King Joffery, of the marriage alliance you've brokered with the Tyells and the small council position you've offered. Ask him to keep an eye for talented knights to shore up his Kingsguard while he's on campaign, especially considering Blounts cowardice. Advise that Boros should be sent to the wall and replaced - ideally Riverlander and Reach knights should be considered as those kingdoms will be vital to the Realms stability in the coming years. Finally, advise your son that you expect his grandfather really will try to take either the Handship or Regency for himself. Father always was too proud for his own good, and desires control more than anything, increasingly to the point of self sabotage. You do not believe he was behind the assassination, but nor do you believe it was Stark or Tully. We already have enough enemies without inviting more. Nonetheless, you're proud of him, and believe he has what it takes to reunite the realm and expel the invaders. He's growing into a fine young man, and a good king.
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I wish we have more actions to do something with Velaryon with their Navy. Maybe a letter or something for the recently deceased Monford. We don't really have a lot of options right now and Essos is experiencing a Second Century of Blood Targ Edition.
 
[X]Plan: Pardons, Weddings and Bloodlines
-[X] [Pycelle] Quietly sweep the treason under the rug. Fear and a guard detail will keep him in line.
-[X] Hold court. Speak judgements and hear the complaints of the people.
-[X] Speak with local traders to organise better food supplies for the city.
--[X]Letters
--[X]Send Ravens in a general proclamation that in the name of King Joffrey (titles titles titles) Any Prince, Lord, Lady, Knight, Sworn sword, freerider, or Common man-at-arms of Westeros whom Swears loyalty to King Joffrey shall henceforth be forgiven crimes carried out during the course of the war. So that the loyal Nobles of Westeros might defeat the invaders who claim descent from the Mad King.
-[X]Send a letter to Darry where Robb Stark was seen headed last. Offering to renew the betrothal between House Stark and House Baratheon. Robb may choose From Myrcella Baratheon or any of her Lannister cousins or any other Unwed Lannister Lady not already spoke for whom he might desire in a match.
-[X]Send a letter to Duskendale to Edmure Tully, Loyal Hand of King Joffrey, protector of the realm. Pronounce him innocent of the attempted assassination aimed at King Joffrey and invite him to Kings Landing to take his place as Hand. Further, he shall be offered his choice in betrothal of any unwed Lannister Lady not already spoken for that he might desire to seal the crowns Alliance with House Tully.
-[X]Write a Letter to Dragonstone. Queen Cersei accepts the ransom of her Niece Shireen Baratheon and the princesses mother Lady Selyse Florent. *On condition* that they be delivered safe and unharmed to the Mud Gate Gatehouse and into the custody of a captain of the gold cloaks and their identities confirmed. Thence, the full ransom shall be paid to their captors. This letter promises safe passage to the bearer and those who accompany them, and we swear by the Seven that upon delivery of the hostages their erstwhile captors shall be permitted to leave, unharmed, and with the ransom in hand.
-[X]Write to Maidenpool and Joffrey. We are proud of him for his actions in the war, and as regent we humbly request that he return to Kings landing to join his forces with the Tyrells and marry his bride to cement our Alliance with House Tyrell, thereafter he may either return to the field at the head of a Tyrell-Baratheon Army. Or to stay in Kings landing to defend it and rule.

Fine. You don't like Cersei's own hand. There we go, there's Myrcella, and if they don't want her they can have their pick of any Lannister Lady they so choose.

I do think we need to remove some of the claimants. And since we can't be sure of defeating Stannis in the Field our best chance is to gain custody of his wife and child. They're our best chance to get him to bend the knee. And if Renly doesn't accept our general offer of amnesty there is Myrcella who we can install as Lady Paramount of the stormlands.

Also important is Joffrey. We need to get him wed and get this Alliance with the Tyrells nailed down. We're lucky they're still on board with the Tyrell-Baratheon match so we should tie up the loose end before they change their mind.

If we're lucky the offer of pardons will calm down the Tyrell split with Loras and bring in Renly. Beyond that, there are far too many targaryens returning to westeros. They need to be treated as invaders and defeated.
 
I don't think we have the authority to offer marriages to any Lannister? Tywin is very pissed ant Cersei right now, those are his vassals. And Joffrey and Edmure can't return for the Tyrell wedding, they're fighting Targs in the crownlands.
 
Tywin is openly defying the Regents orders and it's not entirely clear to me why you think the Starks and Tullys would even want dynastic ties to House Lannister when Tywin is very likely opposed to them in the Riverlands/North civil war.
 
Parzival95 said:
I don't think we have the authority to offer marriages to any Lannister? Tywin is very pissed ant Cersei right now, those are his vassals. And Joffrey and Edmure can't return for the Tyrell wedding, they're fighting Targs in the crownlands.
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Cersei is Queen Regent. Joffrey is king. Plenty of Authority. Beyond that. If we get lord paramountcy matches for Minor Lannister cousins they will absolutely jump on the chance for that. Not to mention. Jaime is dead, Tywin will likely never make Tyrion Lord of Casterly Rock. Simplest and easiest line of Inheritance to the Rock is from Tywin to Cersei, or maybe skipping her straight to Tommen. Either way, Either Cersei or Cersei's son is likely to be the next ruler of the westerlands unless Tywin wants to name his brother his heir or let a minor Lannister Cadet Branch Inherit. Unlikely.

Yes, they're fighting. *points at dead Jaime. Thus, A, we need to get Joffrey to safety and married before that Alliance dies in the cradle. And B, rather than trying to fight the invaders piecemeal they can regroup with a larger force and take enough numbers to safely crush the uprisings in the northern crownlands. Beyond that, with multiple figures making moves it's a good idea to increase the defenses of Kings landing with actual quality troops so we can actually defend and hold the city.

Azel said:
Tywin is openly defying the Regents orders and it's not entirely clear to me why you think the Starks and Tullys would even want dynastic ties to House Lannister when Tywin is very likely opposed to them in the Riverlands/North civil war.
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The ties to House Lannister are a peace offering. And a way to Guarantee Edmure's safety in the capital as Hand. As I've already said. When Ned was hand he left the city as a prisoner for the Wall. I don't think it unlikely that Edmure might want some guarantee's about his own safety and his position.

Quite apart from that Marraiges are one of the best tools for Alliances and I want to pick up some major players apart from just the Tyrells, to make it harder for these pretender kings to gain westerosi support with a match the the North and Riverlands.
 
BoSPaladin said:
The ties to House Lannister are a peace offering.
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You are not in a position to make peace in Tywins name. He's rejecting your authority openly and it's getting increasingly obvious to everyone that the throne has no power.

I'm not sure all of you really realise that the situation is incredible dire and Olenna is basically your only real ally left. An arrangement entirely contingent on you being able to dangle access to Joffrey in front of them since he's their way to legitimise Tyrell control of the Iron Throne.
 
I was thinking that if we can get them to agree to it, then we can sort the actual marraiges after we stop the fighting between the north,riverlands,westerlands and crown, and are able to start removing other players from the game.

Or even without Tywin. If we can get the crownlands, reach, riverlands and north together then Tywin should see the writing on the wall and come on side.

Beyond that, that's useful info to know and I feel vindicated in my write in to try and bring Joffrey to Kings landing to lock in that marraige to Margaery asap.

Edit:
That's also another reason why I was trying to get Cersei a powerful marraige. The Tyrells are going to want power and would likely try to influence Joffrey to remove Edmure as Hand quickly, and especially shuffle his mother the Queen Regent away from the levers of power. Thus, trying to get her a husband so she's not Reliant on either Joffrey (and Margaery's) good graces to stay as a Guest in Kings landing, or to be shuffled off to Tywin for him to choose a husband for her.
 
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BoSPaladin said:
I was thinking that if we can get them to agree to it, then we can sort the actual marraiges after we stop the fighting between the north,riverlands,westerlands and crown, and are able to start removing other players from the game.
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How to you intend to achieve that though? Tywin does not care about your orders and everyone else in the area can safely ignore you.

You all need to move against Tywin, openly and decisively, or his soldiers trump your letters in diplomatic matters.
 
A difficult thing to do considering he has all the money, Prestige and troops

I mean we probably need to do it but how is sticky
 
Perhaps an open display of force combined with an assassination?

Tywin will never cooperate with Cersei, and Tywin's very presence is undermining royal authority. He needs to be eliminated.
 
Fun as all this is, Stannis is attacking King's Landing next season. Cearn Targaryen could also potentially break siege and go for us, though that would likely be disastrous. Regardless, holding the capitol is our is our predominant and current concern.

The ransom thing is done now. It didn't work, that's just how it is. Stannis is kind of insane, so I wouldn't expect hostages to ward him off anyway. This marriage plot that's been happening the last few turns really isn't how this all works. Marriages don't end wars, they cement pre-existing alliances. And yes, we have no authority to give Lannister betrothals to anyone so long as Tywin is still alive, even putting aside that Cersei would never send her daughter to the Starks.
 
With the treasury's current state being what it is, Cersei could hardly afford the Faceless Men. However, they are not the only capable assassins. There are viable, cheaper options.
 
Azel said:
I'm not sure all of you really realise that the situation is incredible dire and Olenna is basically your only real ally left. An arrangement entirely contingent on you being able to dangle access to Joffrey in front of them since he's their way to legitimise Tyrell control of the Iron Throne.
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Pretty sure the Cersei thing to do at the point where she can't win is to make life miserable for everyone else.
 
We could always hurt Tywin where he feel the most: "the reputation of House Lannister". Make It seem that he has gone mad and paranoid in his old age, not listening to his grandson reasonable request to give up the custody of the Mountain - a man who was running around burning the lands of other Lord Paramount, is now a known kinslayer, rapist and other crimes - has activaly conspired against his daugther by bribing the Maester and is paranoid accusing Edmure Tully of all people of assasination.
 
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