Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

Kaelor said:
PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.
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(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)
 
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[X] Plan the Moment of Truth
-[X] (TRUTH-LUNA)
-[X] (TRUTH-LORES)
-[X] (TRUTH-WORMS)
-[X] (TRUTH-CULT)
-[X] (TRUTH-COMPROMISE)
-[X] (CONVINCEMENT-LUNA)
-[X] (CONVINCEMENT-CULT)

The whole truth, but he supports the Luna's healing, even if losing Convincement-Lores kind of hurts, the problems with Luna's recovery, I believe, will hurt more.
 
[X] Plan Luna and Lores
-[X] (TRUTH-LUNA)
-[X] (TRUTH-LORES)
-[X] (TRUTH-WORMS)
-[X] (TRUTH-CULT)
-[X] (TRUTH-COMPROMISE)
-[X] (CONVINCEMENT-LUNA)
-[X] (CONVINCEMENT-LORES)

Gonna toss this out. I think convincing on Luna is probably important, since just about everything hinges on restoring Luna. I like the idea of convincing on lores so we can start using the lores to help protect our family.
 
We can still teach her the lores if we convince him to let us teach the family the lores. And we can take more steps to keep our whole family safe in the interim.

Is it really wise to future proof something five turns hence?
 
[X] Plan Veritas

Ah, honesty. One of the virtues of Harmony, if I recall. And I am okay with Stormchaser not being okay with poking the alicorn filly with eldritch rituals. Especially if it leaves him okay with open Lore use to protect the family and does fast forward our trigger clock.
 
Ericwinter said:
Sort of. What I meant was that Bird mentioned it as something Stormchaser might suggest. I looked at it and said "we'll what if we suggested it" and considered what would likely happen if we brought Selene to Celestia and explained everything. Which wouldn't end so much with Celestia convincing Stormchaser that we're right as her just deciding to go with the most immediate option for getting her sister back, whether she thinks we know what we're doing or not and basically decreeing that we carry out the ritual, regardless of what Stormchaser would think. After all, by that point it would be up to her, and not either ourselves or our husband.
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I think there is problem with such plan. Let's say Velvet and Stormchaser go to Celestia and inform her of ritual. Wouldn't she see that Stormchaser visibly against it and will ask him why it is so? Then learn about our involvement in nightmare ritual and throw us in dungeon, choosing to use her own means to restore Luna, probably something Harmony related.

It would be much easier to admit our involvement after restoring Luna. I think there were plans suggested in such vein.

[X] Plan Most of It, Cult Version
-[X] (TRUTH-LORES)
-[X] (TRUTH-WORMS)
-[X] (TRUTH-CULT)
-[X] (TRUTH-COMPROMISE)
-[X] (CONVINCEMENT-LORES)
-[X] (CONVINCEMENT-CULT)




As for ideas that involve Stormchaser telling Dull Grass about cult, I am not strictly against it but it should be clear that it is choosing chaos and destruction approach instead of slow and steady. In that case I would want additional safety net in the form of Stormchaser 100% on our side, even when it comes to murder. Because the faster clock would be ticking the more desperate situation will become and the harder would be decisions we would need to take. Like burn cult headquarters and there is still cult ponies inside, or storm Twilight prison with cultist members ending up being killed. We can't just start it and then get cold hoofs in the middle of way.

[] Plan Any means necessary
-[] (TRUTH-LUNA)
-[] (TRUTH-LORES)
-[] (TRUTH-WORMS)
-[] (TRUTH-CULT)
-[] (TRUTH-COMPROMISE)
-[] (CONVINCEMENT- LORES)
-[] (CONVINCEMENT-COMPROMISE)


Edit: Let's not involve Dull Glass since it does not work like this then
 
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Alex Sol said:
I think there is problem with such plan. Let's say Velvet and Stormchaser go to Celestia and inform her of ritual. Wouldn't she see that Stormchaser visibly against it and will ask him why it is so? Then learn about our involvement in nightmare ritual and throw us in dungeon, choosing to use her own means to restore Luna, probably something Harmony related.
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Not really? Keep in mind that the issue Stormchaser has isn't that we used a Lore ritual against Luna—I doubt he would mention our explicit participation, and if he did it would be in the context of his understanding that we were forced into it—but rather that a Lore ritual in general was responsible, and so he doesn't trust that another Lore ritual would fix her. That's what would be shared, even if your worry here came to fruition. Celestia, however, is probably more capable of recognizing that poison and medicine usually come from the same place, so unless she already had some method immediately available, would focus on the shortest route to having her sister back.
 
Ericwinter said:
Not really? Keep in mind that the issue Stormchaser has isn't that we used a Lore ritual against Luna—I doubt he would mention our explicit participation, and if he did it would be in the context of his understanding that we were forced into it—but rather that a Lore ritual in general was responsible, and so he doesn't trust that another Lore ritual would fix her. That's what would be shared, even if your worry here came to fruition. Celestia, however, is probably more capable of recognizing that poison and medicine usually come from the same place, so unless she already had some method immediately available, would focus on the shortest route to having her sister back.
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I'm not sure that this Celestia would be willing to give Lore ritual a try; because we know that she has a working method of her own, and I doubt that she'd be willing to risk additional danger to her sister just to get her earlier.

Besides, it's a very good question, which method would be actually faster in the end.
 
Ericwinter said:
Not really? Keep in mind that the issue Stormchaser has isn't that we used a Lore ritual against Luna—I doubt he would mention our explicit participation, and if he did it would be in the context of his understanding that we were forced into it—but rather that a Lore ritual in general was responsible, and so he doesn't trust that another Lore ritual would fix her. That's what would be shared, even if your worry here came to fruition. Celestia, however, is probably more capable of recognizing that poison and medicine usually come from the same place, so unless she already had some method immediately available, would focus on the shortest route to having her sister back.
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If Celestia does not know about Lores I don't see how she would be able to tell one way or another without months of studies. Plus if ritual to restore Luna involve dice rolls then it can fail and affect Luna, it is not like Stormchaser is completely in the wrong here.
 
Starlit Horizon said:
I'm not sure that this Celestia would be willing to give Lore ritual a try; because we know that she has a working method of her own, and I doubt that she'd be willing to risk additional danger to her sister just to get her earlier.

Besides, it's a very good question, which method would be actually faster in the end.
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Do you mean the Elements? It's a possibility, but considering the state Twilight would be in, even if we do manage to have her free by this point, I'm not sure they would be an option. And I've got the impression that Celestia is more concerned with getting her sister back as soon as possible, though that may just be me.
Alex Sol said:
If Celestia does not know about Lores I don't see how she would be able to tell one way or another without months of studies. Plus if ritual to restore Luna involve dice rolls then it can fail and affect Luna, it is not like Stormchaser is completely in the wrong here.
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Oh, I didn't mean the Lores specifically just that in general, antidotes are usually made from the same poison they cure, or that magic is usually the best way to cure magical ailments or curses. Celestia is old and experienced enough to know that to heal unnatural harm, you need unnatural means. And while the ritual can be dangerous, Celestia has the resources to very easily make it a certain victory. A Level Five Artifact—which we could have asked for as a reward for any Lore, so she's probably got a few in her vaults or easily gathered—and the basic +50 magic of an Alicorn would easily be enough if we guided her through the ritual. Or if we can get Heart and Forge both up to Four before then, the Artifact, a Level Four reagent, and our own magic score, again, garuntees success.
 
Alex Sol said:
If Celestia does not know about Lores I don't see how she would be able to tell one way or another without months of studies. Plus if ritual to restore Luna involve dice rolls then it can fail and affect Luna, it is not like Stormchaser is completely in the wrong here.
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And on that note, I realized recently that if we can't use Jade's Cadre then the best we can do on The Incision of the Heart is
13 (Magic) + 40 (Edge 4) = 53 vs DC 60
13 (Magic) + 40 (Heart 4) + 40 (Heart 4 reagent) = 93 vs DC 100
assuming we get Heart, Edge, and Forge to level 4 (Forge can be replaced with sacrificing a level 4 artifact, but we've never even seen one of those)

Though the level 4 re-rolls help here, reducing what would be a 13.51% failure rate to 0.98%

My conclusion here is mostly that we need to train some trustworthy assistants (or delegate this to Jade), or do some really impressive grinding.
 
Ericwinter said:
Do you mean the Elements? It's a possibility, but considering the state Twilight would be in, even if we do manage to have her free by this point, I'm not sure they would be an option. And I've got the impression that Celestia is more concerned with getting her sister back as soon as possible, though that may just be me.
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Ok, apparently I am misremembering things; I've wanted to point back to "the Course of the Moon", but it actually says that Velvet was not sure if Celestia had anything.

As for "as soon as possible" - to the degree helps Luna, sure. She is not willing to let anyone possibly harm her sister, that is without doubt.

But Celestia doesn't mind her own suffering, and if she judges that she has a safe but somewhat long term plan of restoring Selene to Luna (while keeping her under all protection she can muster), or less safe but fast plan... Well, I'm not sure which she'll bring, but personally I have an impression that she'll optimize for safety.
 
In the end, the WHY of Luna does not matter, so I think we can do as follows:
[X] Plan Most of It, Cult Version
-[X] (TRUTH-LORES)
-[X] (TRUTH-WORMS)
-[X] (TRUTH-CULT)
-[X] (TRUTH-COMPROMISE)
-[X] (CONVINCEMENT-LORES)
-[X] (CONVINCEMENT-CULT)
 
Ericwinter said:
Oh, I didn't mean the Lores specifically just that in general, antidotes are usually made from the same poison they cure, or that magic is usually the best way to cure magical ailments or curses. Celestia is old and experienced enough to know that to heal unnatural harm, you need unnatural means. And while the ritual can be dangerous, Celestia has the resources to very easily make it a certain victory. A Level Five Artifact—which we could have asked for as a reward for any Lore, so she's probably got a few in her vaults or easily gathered—and the basic +50 magic of an Alicorn would easily be enough if we guided her through the ritual. Or if we can get Heart and Forge both up to Four before then, the Artifact, a Level Four reagent, and our own magic score, again, garuntees success.
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I attacked Luna and turned her into filly. Now give me all yours artifacts so I can finish ritual and restore her back to full strength but loyal to me. Also sell me your royal castle while we are at it.

I think our Grail is nowhere near enough for something like this
 
Skelm said:
My conclusion here is mostly that we need to train some trustworthy assistants (or delegate this to Jade), or do some really impressive grinding.
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You know, if we get the Lore embargo lifted, we could maybe get our most loyal maids trained up. Maybe. They don't even have to meet the Cult's current standards, just a simple +10 would do. Then again we would probably have to excuse it as different rituals, which is… well. We don't have many of those that aren't bad, except maybe Influences. Or we could say we want help fixing our leg and frightened trait.

Honestly though, those numbers are just ridiculous. We can almost carry out a full garunteed ritual all by ourselves.
Alex Sol said:
I attacked Luna and turned her into filly. Now give me all yours artifacts so I can finish ritual and restore her back to full strength but loyal to me. Also sell me your royal castle while we are at it.

I think our Grail is nowhere near enough for something like this
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…What the actual fuck? I just… I'm sorry, this is so completely not what would happen, and completely ignoring everything else that I've said, that I have to assume you're joking.

On the off chance you're not, however… no we wouldn't state our part in the Nightmare ritual, we're asking to use the Artifacts, or even just show her how to use them so she can do it herself, would obviously not be saying anything about having Luna loyal to us, and I don't even know where you got the thing about the castle. I assume you're being facetious.
 
Ericwinter said:
On the off chance you're not, however… no we wouldn't state our part in the Nightmare ritual, we're asking to use the Artifacts, or even just show her how to use them so she can do it herself, would obviously not be saying anything about having Luna loyal to us, and I don't even know where you got the thing about the castle. I assume you're being facetious.
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Not mentioning our part in Luna ritual or that we do it with the hopes that Luna will hold onto memories with our family is basically lying to Celestia, when we ask for her permission to conduct ritual. Which would not fly with Stormchaser, because I assume that we go to Celestia so she can support our decision and outweigh Stormchaser opposition to it and in this case he would be perfectly aware that we got this permission through obscuring truth. In that case we can as well skip on all this Celestia involvement and conduct ritual without consulting with Stormchaser there is no differences between two.
 
[X] Plan Veritas

Ugh. It hurts to lose his acceptance on how to help Luna, but I think that keeping the family alive is more important. Hopefully later on we can spend actions on convincing him that the Lores are the best way to help Selene, especially if Selene herself can remember being Luna and tells him that this is what she wants.
 
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