Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

BirdBodhisattva · Jul 9, 2021

Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

Kaelor said:
PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.

(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)

Pittauro · Feb 7, 2021

reborn214 said:
Do you think we should mention the too much lore == you stop being a pony. Even just a moderate amount makes your relationship to the noun pony a bit nebulous. We may have knew, but never really understood what that was about; since, Master never cared to elaborate much. I am wondering if we need to give Twilight and Rarity the choice or the warning to you know either mitigate their lore intact a lot at the beginning, or be fine turning into like some not pony creature.

In many ways, I feel that this warning would benefit Twilight a lot; since, she has the sort of obsessive personality that delves really hard into these things.

From phone in bed, so quick answer (might write more tomorrow)

We are going to always be above our confidants/students in lore, so we can simply warn them of what the next step does/mean.

The truly unnatural bits are probably lvl 5+,and you only really stop being a pony if you pursue ascension, which is completely different and much more difficult that simply learning the lores.

Still, a warning on what they might find in the Mansus if they risk exploring it is something we should consider. Again, one step at a time.
They don't need to know about the stag door if they never even faced the Blank Door, but knowledge of the Woods would certainly be useful IF they actually decide to explore it.

Then again, they probably won't. You don't really enter into the Mansus by accident without knock 3 apparently, so they likely would simply NOT go there. Especially if we don't teach them the trick (cutting a lock of hair) to go there in your sleep.
Probably better that way, I'm not sure what are the chances of theaster finding them there but better not to risk it.

Going back to the actual lores

Example: to Twilight we can explain about lantern-touch. We can even ask jade if she actually has the same "gift", or something similar but different.

Actually, @BirdBodhisattva does jade have the same lantern touch we have, or is her gift different?

When we get grail 3, we can do the same for Rarity.

BirdBodhisattva · Feb 7, 2021

Pittauro said:
Actually, @BirdBodhisattva does jade have the same lantern touch we have, or is her gift different?

There has never been any evidence whatsoever that Realizations (Level 3 threshold) affects ponies the same way.

That is to say, Jade has very good eyes for her level of Lantern. And I think you recall something about Copper saying she felt your attention on her?

jason1stlegion · Feb 7, 2021

[X] Plan Cooling Down plus family and rituals V2
Switching votes.

Also, @BirdBodhisattva, what happens when we sleep, if we don't add the Mansus to our 5+1 actions that turn? Do we still dream? Do we just sit in the Crossroads planning our day? Do we go into a trance where Velvet better aligns herself with the will of holy SV?

Ericwinter · Feb 8, 2021

jason1stlegion said:
[X] Plan Cooling Down plus family and rituals V2
Switching votes.

Also, @BirdBodhisattva, what happens when we sleep, if we don't add the Mansus to our 5+1 actions that turn? Do we still dream? Do we just sit in the Crossroads planning our day? Do we go into a trance where Velvet better aligns herself with the will of holy SV?

Honestly, we probably figured out how to stop it by now, it just takes effort, compared to before where it takes effort to go.

Pittauro · Feb 8, 2021

BirdBodhisattva said:
It will be more expensive, not necessarily doubled.

...what I'm hearing here is that it COULD be double though

Eh, hopefully we'll be lucky. Maybe there will be some kind of negotiation roll.

BirdBodhisattva said:
I will remind you that around 70 to 90 bits is what a regular pony is paid in a full month of work. Expecting Rarity to give you more money than a pony would earn in a full month is way beyond what she can currently do, especially considering that she is only going to give you a percentage of her earnings. She closed her boutique in order to dedicate herself to this contracting, so she... well, she needs money for herself as well.

Expect something between 20 and 40 bits for your extra monthly income. I can tell you this because your character is business-savvy, and because you have already talked to her a bit about this.

ok, I definitely overestimated both what Rarity would earn, and what she'd offer us.

Still, if it's a share that possibly means that, as she starts to get better and earn more, we might slowly earn more as well.

We'll see how it goes, basically.

Still, with this revised estimate, spending a LOT in artifacts has become... not necessarily a bad idea, but something we should be VERY careful about.

Right now a SH 3 artifact for Jade is probably our best investment actually. Then we can have Jade simply use her confidant action to find most other things we want/need, lice expedition sites, high level books/lost libraries, artifacts, potentially friendly occultists willing to share knowledge... the elements of harmony/the Crystal Heart if we somehow get involved in the Discord/Sombra events...

BirdBodhisattva said:
She most definitely wont.

My bad, I misremembered. I thought our servants were getting to use the bonus in their search, but then I checked and they don't.

BirdBodhisattva said:
"Twilight darling, don't worry. Me and Velvet will give you something to think about."

(Laughs in Phrygian)

..any time I read these things, I regret not going with a Grail cult

I'd probably change my mind once we reach the cannibal parts, but until then...

BirdBodhisattva said:
Heavens. Every time I see the current situation of the Bright Library I think how much we need to get a hoof on the Outer Circle...

seriously, next turn we HAVE to start gathering some minions. Maybe use Jade's action on that as well, have her point out possible good additions to our faction and such.

reborn214 said:
Do you think we should mention the too much lore == you stop being a pony. Even just a moderate amount makes your relationship to the noun pony a bit nebulous. We may have knew, but never really understood what that was about; since, Master never cared to elaborate much. I am wondering if we need to give Twilight and Rarity the choice or the warning to you know either mitigate their lore intact a lot at the beginning, or be fine turning into like some not pony creature.

In many ways, I feel that this warning would benefit Twilight a lot; since, she has the sort of obsessive personality that delves really hard into these things.

ok, Bird confirmed level 3 realizations are different for each pony. Still, I imagine part of our teaching someone to reach lvl3 would include a warning/preparing them for the "skill" they'd acquire.

We can't tell them WHAT it would be, but we can at least warn them by using us as an example.

Twilight actually saw us use TWO of our "skills". Walking around with our eyes closed, and opening her locked door. We just have to make it clear that they actually go further than that.

It's, quite literally, gaining an extra sense. Sometime a very alien one, sometime one that you instinctively trust and have no doubt about (and isn't that, in some ways, even MORE concerning?), and you CAN'T turn them off.

They're usually worth the price and side-effects.. but there's no going back. If you decide to unlock them, you HAVE to be ready to accept them.

Still, we mostly had problems with them because we unlocked 4, and 2 of these were pretty extreme (SH and knock). THey'd only have one to worry about one, and it would probably be pretty well suited to them (Twilight would definitely be jealous of our touch-reading, for example. She could read in bed in the dark! She could cradle a book to sleep while continuing reading it! and Rarity... well, most Grail abilities I can think of I think she'd like)

The "not be a pony any longer" is really only an ascension thing, and doesn't have anything to do with the level 3 skills. Velvet was exaggerating due to her past trauma and fast progression, in addition to all her other sources of stress.

Ericwinter said:
Honestly, we probably figured out how to stop it by now, it just takes effort, compared to before where it takes effort to go.

I don't know, it kinda sounded like we kinda lost the ability to dream normally.

Suneagle · Feb 8, 2021

[X] Plan Cooling Down plus family and rituals V2

Pittauro said:
Especially if we don't teach them the trick (cutting a lock of hair) to go there in your sleep.

There are at least two other ways to get there in CS, and as I recall more have been mentioned here. While sleeping in a white room is unlikely, a snakebite to the hoof is possible if rare.

Pittauro said:
lice expedition sites

Lice... you mean Changelings? I suppose that'd give a decent Moth bonus, but having a whole Changeling colony in the back yard might be a mite inconvenient.

Bakkasama · Feb 8, 2021

Pittauro said:
ok, I definitely overestimated both what Rarity would earn, and what she'd offer us.

Still, if it's a share that possibly means that, as she starts to get better and earn more, we might slowly earn more as well.

We'll see how it goes, basically.

From the last update, it sounds like she will only pay us until we get back the 300 bits we spent in the first place.

Ericwinter · Feb 8, 2021

Suneagle said:
Lice... you mean Changelings? I suppose that'd give a decent Moth bonus, but having a whole Changeling colony in the back yard might be a mite inconvenient.

Unless you kill their evil queen and take over the colony, anyways.

Bakkasama said:
From the last update, it sounds like she will only pay us until we get back the 300 bits we spent in the first place.

It specifically mentions that Jade is pretty sure she won't stop there.

Skelm · Feb 8, 2021

Why does the leading plan have Rarity doing a generic artifact search instead of talking to the merchants guild? AFAIK we don't have any use for artifacts of most Aspects, so a generic search has a high chance of effective failure even on a good roll. Also, why search in Canterlot? Lantern and Grail seem useless to us, and Secret Histories is only marginally valuable compared to Heart (Ponyville) or Edge (Manehatten).

[X] Plan Cooling Down plus family and rituals V2

@Ericwinter

Pittauro said:
We'd then have to play mediator between Luna, Celestia and the Master, but it's a possible route, if a risky one.

Aren't we already basically committed to that?

Ericwinter · Feb 8, 2021

Skelm said:
Why does the leading plan have Rarity doing a generic artifact search instead of talking to the merchants guild? AFAIK we don't have any use for artifacts of most Aspects, so a generic search has a high chance of effective failure even on a good roll. Also, why search in Canterlot? Lantern and Grail seem useless to us, and Secret Histories is only marginally valuable compared to Heart (Ponyville) or Edge (Manehatten).

Well one, the location no longer matter and has, in fact, been removed, but I originally chose Canterlot because I really wanted Secret Histories to help with Jade doing rituals, and with how much we study and social people, I figured a Grail or Lantern artifact couldn't hurt. As for why not taking the merchant's guild, it was pointed out that they are more expensive than usual—and we're not exactly rich enough to afford a lot of upmarks—and others also wouldn't mind having another Lore to make use of.
EDIT: sorry, apparently it hadn't been removed, and I was looking in the wrong place. Which his weird. Anywho, fixed now.

Pittauro · Feb 8, 2021

Suneagle said:
There are at least two other ways to get there in CS, and as I recall more have been mentioned here. While sleeping in a white room is unlikely, a snakebite to the hoof is possible if rare.

sure, but WE don't know of such methods (or at least, Velvet didn't know of them before. Lore knowledge might or might not include them), and it's unlikely they'd learn them by chance.

Suneagle said:
Lice... you mean Changelings? I suppose that'd give a decent Moth bonus, but having a whole Changeling colony in the back yard might be a mite inconvenient.

you know what I meant 😅

Bakkasama said:
From the last update, it sounds like she will only pay us until we get back the 300 bits we spent in the first place.

Except Velvet said she was sure Rarity would try and continue to repay us even AFTER that.

But really, Once we get that damn payraise from our father we can probably be more firm and tell her it's unnecessary. After all the deal we made for her is bringing probably thousands, if not more, of bits to our family.

And I DEFINITELY want to get a share of that. Our father quite literally CAN'T deny we deserve it.

Ericwinter said:
It specifically mentions that Jade is pretty sure she won't stop there.

I think you meant Velvet

Skelm said:
Why does the leading plan have Rarity doing a generic artifact search instead of talking to the merchants guild? AFAIK we don't have any use for artifacts of most Aspects, so a generic search has a high chance of effective failure even on a good roll. Also, why search in Canterlot? Lantern and Grail seem useless to us, and Secret Histories is only marginally valuable compared to Heart (Ponyville) or Edge (Manehatten).

Not really true. Secret History allows Jade to use the scrying ritual on her own (higher level is better obviously), Heart and Forge of at least lvl 2 are useful both to study and as sacrifices to boost mind and body healing rituals, We can obviously study all lvl 3 artifacts and most about half of the lvl 2, and we can give redundant artifacts to our confidants to support them.

And, obviously, every artifact comes with a special ability. The ONLY ONE we studied allowed for improved healing, and it proved its worth in healing Rarity after the expedition. We really don't know what other kind of effects they might have, but most are likely to be useful if used correctly.

Generally speaking any lvl 3 artifact would probably be worth buying IF we can afford it, and there's a decent argument to be made for lvl 2 artifacts, ESPECIALLY if they give us scraps.

I don't disagree with using her to talk to the merchant in place of that, though. That's also a good use of her. And I already mentioned being interested in having her gather gossip about the Rich Family, or even for rumors of interesting expedition sites. (like... maybe the castle in the everfree? It's dangerous, but it's also pretty close, and the castle came with a full library! She's even been there before!)

Skelm said:
Aren't we already basically committed to that?

sort of. We technically could leave the cult for Luna's and Celestia's faction instead.

The point is that THE WAY we try to mediate matters.

Like, we could use the cult's cadre for the ritual, and then rely on the shock factor to basically surprise everyone and go all "here is the princess, now we can call the MAster and have them talk", or we could heal her in secret and take our time to instruct and prepare her before a meeting, or we could have her teleport the both of us to Celestia in secret, talk, make plans, prepare for a meeting from a position of strenght, or even betray the cult outright...

Or we could be discovered before the ritual, and end up having to escape like in that past omake.

Ericwinter said:
Well one, the location no longer matter and has, in fact, been removed, but I originally chose Canterlot because I really wanted Secret Histories to help with Jade doing rituals, and with how much we study and social people, I figured a Grail or Lantern artifact couldn't hurt. As for why not taking the merchant's guild, it was pointed out that they are more expensive than usual—and we're not exactly rich enough to afford a lot of upmarks—and others also wouldn't mind having another Lore to make use of.
EDIT: sorry, apparently it hadn't been removed, and I was looking in the wrong place. Which his weird. Anywho, fixed now.

on second thought I'm not exactly against using the merchants to find a specific artifact... as long as it's one we NEED. that is WORTH the price.

For example, a SH 3 artifact would probably repay itself pretty soon in free scrying rituals from Jade, or we could loan it to Twilight to have her search books for us later on, if/when she becomes a confidant if SH is not one of her lores.

Edge is good both for learning and probably to defend ourselves. Grail both for learning, for its effects, and possibly to boost Jade's socials/having her recruit people for us with her actions.

Forge... well, learning, possible effects, and in the end as a sacrifice to heal our leg... but I don't think we're going to use it any time soon, so I'd be against it.

Basically, if we pay 200+ bits for an artifact, we better extract at least that much value out of it!

Ericwinter · Feb 8, 2021

Pittauro said:
I don't disagree with using her to talk to the merchant in place of that, though.

Hold on, you're the one who convinced me not to use the merchants! Which is it then? Anyone else voting for my plan want to weigh in?

Pittauro · Feb 8, 2021

Ericwinter said:
Hold on, you're the one who convinced me not to use the merchants! Which is it then? Anyone else voting for my plan want to weigh in?

I'm allowed to change my mind!

Seriously though, it depends a lot on the specific artifact we'd be searching. Also, by choosing this, we're basically removing the chance of spending our bits in other ways, at least in the next turn (and I was hoping for a Rich-Apple trading deal, as a follow-up to our investment in Rarity... but that can probably wait a turn or two, while we gather informations and maybe get introduced to Applejack first)

My favourite is probably a SH 3 artifact right now. Depending on the effect, we'd then give it to Jade for the rituals, and possibly to Twilight to help her studies (though it also depends on her specific affinities).

I don't think we should buy another Heart 3. I wouldn't buy a Heart artifact until we actually decide to heal either ourselves or Selene.

..I could also be convinced for a Forge artifact, actually. We can give it to Rarity for now in case the effect is not that useful, and she'd probably get a bonus to her career. Not sure if she'd enjoy having to rely on an artifact for her work, though. It could help, but then there's the problem that, once we take it away, her work would obviously drop in quality...

EDIT: wait, in case you meant merchant to recruit them, I'm fine with that too I suppose.

I mostly want her to do something that doesn't make me feel like we're wasting her action. At this point I'm fine with mostly everything between artifacts, SPECIFIC artifact, merchants, Rich gossip, Twilight help and... I'm actually mostly fine with books too, just because I REALLY want more Edge/Grail/Heart/Forge books to reach lvl 3 soon

Pittauro · Feb 8, 2021

just thought about it, but.. would studying the Edge 3 book be enough to bring the cult's EDGE to lvl 1?

It's currently to -2

Usually we'd get 3/1 lvl 1 scraps of lore. It really depends on how that -2 is counted.

@BirdBodhisattva what would be needed to reach lvl 0 and lvl 1 edge? number of books and of what level? Is each book capable of removing only a -1, or can the edge 3 book bring us all the way to lvl 0 or 1?

PrimalShadow · Feb 8, 2021

Pittauro said:
just thought about it, but.. would studying the Edge 3 book be enough to bring the cult's EDGE to lvl 1?

It's currently to -2

Usually we'd get 3/1 lvl 1 scraps of lore. It really depends on how that -2 is counted.

@BirdBodhisattva what would be needed to reach lvl 0 and lvl 1 edge? number of books and of what level? Is each book capable of removing only a -1, or can the edge 3 book bring us all the way to lvl 0 or 1?

Bird previously stated that the -2 bonusis applied after everything else. So to get the cult Edge 1, we would need to reach level 3 by normal accounting.

A single level 3 book gets us to lvl1 lore (since books don't get split up), which means the cult will still have a negative edge level after we read it.

PrimalShadow · Feb 8, 2021

Ericwinter said:
Hold on, you're the one who convinced me not to use the merchants! Which is it then? Anyone else voting for my plan want to weigh in?

I feel like deciding to look for a specific Artifact is something that should be discussed in depth, not edited into a plan a decent duration into the vote.

Ericwinter · Feb 8, 2021

PrimalShadow said:
I feel like deciding to look for a specific Artifact is something that should be discussed in depth, not edited into a plan a decent duration into the vote.

I was actually going to create a secondary version of the plan if enough people were interested, but didn't want to put unnecessary effort in if not, since I'm currently doing things from my phone.

Well, technically Tertiary, but you get the idea.

Pittauro · Feb 8, 2021

PrimalShadow said:
Bird previously stated that the -2 bonusis applied after everything else. So to get the cult Edge 1, we would need to reach level 3 by normal accounting.

A single level 3 book gets us to lvl1 lore (since books don't get split up), which means the cult will still have a negative edge level after we read it.

Ok, I didn't remember how it worked, but now that you mention it I do.

Ericwinter said:
I was actually going to create a secondary version of the plan if enough people were interested, but didn't want to put unnecessary effort in if not, since I'm currently doing things from my phone.

Well, technically Tertiary, but you get the idea.

eh.. I might as well make my own plan at this point. Possibly introduce a couple small changes

[X] Plan Cooling Down plus family and rituals, SH artifact edition
-[X] The Attention of the Laws [Secret Histories] for the Mansus Ascension
-[X] Number of actions
--[X] 5+1
-[X] Buy Books
--[X] EDGE 3
--[X] KNOCK 2
--[X] WINTER 2
-[X] Rarity
--[X] Act as your emissary.
---[X]Ask for specific Lore artifact. (Secret History 3)
-[X] Jade Whistle
--[X] As per orders. (Perform her cult assignment)
-[X] Selene
--[X] Knock.
-[X] A fleeting opportunity
--[X] Tutoring Twilight
--[X] Deliver Comet Feet's letter
--[X] "Those damn Needles!"
---[X] Ask your uncle
-[X] Personal life
--[X] Family
---[X] Invite and introduce Uncle Steppes to everyone, have a nice family gathering.
-[X] On furthering your knowledge
--[X] Read book (write in which)
---[X] Winter 2, Heart 2, Moth 1
-[X] Mission
--[X] Go higher in the Mansus
--[X] If next Door is not reached, attempt again, if full success has been achieved explore past it else explore past the Blank Door
-[X] Shopping
--[X] Books
---[X] In Ponyville. (servant action)
----[x] ask Twilight for help in finding good books. That's her job after all, isn't it? ~~(preference: Heart lvl2+, expedition sites, Edge lvl2+, in THAT order, if it matters).~~ If it improves the action offer a tip/donation to the library to improve the results.

what I changed is bolded. I considered changing Edge for Moth, but then again it doesn't really matter that much and with this the cult will have everything except Moth at lvl 1. If we then add the edge book next turn (useful for at least the Manehattan cultits) we have everything at 1 minimum. At this point we're still mostly loyal to the cult, so I suppose it makes sense for us to follow through on our duty, especially if we actually want to negotiate/mediate with the master later on about Luna and Celestia.

I changed Rarity from random artifact search to Secret History artifact. After that we can, from the next turn, use the ritual with Jade to start searching for expedition sites and/or books/artifacts of higher levels. Or even lost treasures, really, if we just wanted bits. And we can do it on our own, without involving the cult, if we want to (for example to keep any artifact we find completely in our own control).

If all goes well, this might actually be the last artifact we actually need to buy.

Next turn I'll probably want to study the artifact AND books for Heart 3. Also possibly searching for minions in the cult, possibly with Jade's help if we're not doing the ritual immediately.

Rarity I'd either ask to support us, or have her use her action to search for information/gossip about the Rich (or other ideas, if we can think of any good one. Maybe simply introduce us to the Apples for business?)

about Plan Cooling Down plus family and rituals, if Jade is doing the ritual on her own, wouldn't she use her own SH score? that means she has to pass a DC 60 with no bonuses, right?

About the v2 plan (and actually also Plan cooling down)... let's consider this: do we want artifacts, or do we want A SPECIFIC artifact (like SH 3)?

If we want a specific one, than it might be worth it to give up a few more bits for the certainty of finding it. Otherwise, if we're fine with any artifact, than the normal search makes sense. I'm hoping Rarity might negotiate the price down with her good diplo+grail.

ok, anything I'm wrong with/you disagree with? (Winter to lvl3 is not negotiable to me, btw. Just a quick reminder

)

EDIT: added a write-in about asking Twilight to help with the book search. also added preferences for books if that helps, and the possibility of a tip/donation to the library.

I have no idea if the tip/donation is necessary. I was thinking of the Rarity social actions, in which we improved the result by spending bits to buy one of her dresses. If it doesn't fit I imagine Bird will ignore it.

Ericwinter · Feb 8, 2021

Pittauro said:
what I changed is bolded. I considered changing Edge for Moth, but then again it doesn't really matter that much and with this the cult will have everything except Moth at lvl 1.

Actually, we would still be missing Lantern, as well.

Pittauro said:
that means she has to pass a DC 60 with no bonuses, right?

Well, she would also have her own magic and the cadre, presumably, so it would look more like a DC 40, but yeah, it's not super easy. Still better than a fifty/fifty chance though.

[X] Plan Cooling Down plus family and rituals, SH artifact edition

[X] Plan Cooling Down plus family and rituals V2

Pittauro · Feb 8, 2021

Ericwinter said:
Actually, we would still be missing Lantern, as well.

I'm ALWAYS forgetting something, even RIGHT AFTER CHECKING...

Ericwinter said:
Well, she would also have her own magic and the cadre, presumably, so it would look more like a DC 40, but yeah, it's not super easy. Still better than a fifty/fifty chance though.

Fair point. Definitely better, though still not really good odds on which to bet an action slot.

So an artifact would bring it to a dc 10 or so basically, which definitely sounds much better, with the lantern roll determining how much info we get.

by the way, what kind of artifacts would we have search for? By the way one of the possible rewards we could ask from Celestia was a lvl 5 artifact, and I suspect anything higher than that is probably too risky to get.

Edge 4 is certainly a good choice. Enough scraps to reach Edge 3, AND it can help us with rituals and self-defense (and whatever effects it has). It might EVEN help Comet to reach lvl 5 Edge, potentially, though there's obviously the matter of him needing some kind of special push.

Forge or Heart 4 might also be good options. or a Grail artifact. not that useful to us directly, but we can give it to Jade to help with her actions, or to Rarity until we can get her to the next level.

Alternatively, we could use the ritual to scout places we suspect might have interesting objects, but of which we're not sure.

My immediate first thought would be the Castle of the two sisters in the everfree, if Velvet knows of its existence. The ritual could give us an idea of the difficulty level and potential rewards.. though I suppose Rarity and Twilight could as well, if we asked them.

Then again the dangers of the forest when Nightmare Moon was around might not be the same there would be right now.

Other possible places Velvet could know of... I suppose she might use it on historical and/or legendary ruins, possibly to learn WHERE they are starting from the name. Or we could use an action to look for interesting legends in books, and then decide on the most interesting ancient lost artifacts the books talk about.

For example, if we find just a mention of the Alicorn Amulet, we could then try and scry for it.

Ericwinter · Feb 8, 2021

Pittauro said:
Edge 4 is certainly a good choice. Enough scraps to reach Edge 3, AND it can help us with rituals and self-defense (and whatever effects it has). It might EVEN help Comet to reach lvl 5 Edge, potentially, though there's obviously the matter of him needing some kind of special push.

Eh, Bird already stated that he's right on the Edge of Five, and the only thing holding him back is the Sacrament. Once he figures that out, chances are he'll go right over. But, yeah, Edge 4 is pretty good. Same with Forge and Heart, though personally I prefer Heart since that's a more pressing concern.

I also definitely wouldn't mind looting the Castle as well. IIRC, the Mane Six went there a few times without much trouble at all after Nightmare Moon was gone, though we should definitely probably have an Edge artifact first, just in case.

Pittauro · Feb 8, 2021

Ericwinter said:
Eh, Bird already stated that he's right on the Edge of Five, and the only thing holding him back is the Sacrament. Once he figures that out, chances are he'll go right over. But, yeah, Edge 4 is pretty good. Same with Forge and Heart, though personally I prefer Heart since that's a more pressing concern.

Heart is probably the best choice IF we don't find Heart books (or only find one lvl 2). That way we can get 2 scraps from it as well.

About it being pressing, that's only true if we actually plan for IMMEDIATELY sacrificing our heartifact for the ritual on ourselves. For Selene after all it wil still be quite some time, so it can wait.

If we go for it though, yeah, we could use the heart 3 on us, then keep the heart 4 until Selene's ritual.

On the other end, though, we need edge 3 for Selene's lessons, and we need it by the start of turn 13 if we want to keep to a balanced progression and avoid the edge roll to teach. And we currently need 2 scraps more worth of books and/or artifacts in addition to the edge 3 book we already have.

If we're willing to roll, or to teach other lores first, that need for Edge can be delayed, but it's suboptimal.

..you know, from the sacrifice bonuses, we gather that a pony life isn't really worth that much.

+ 10 to both rolls is more or less equivalent to +20 on a single one (with the +20 being actually slightly better as one DC is usually much higher than the other), and the price of a lvl 2 artifact is 100 bits.

So, for a ritual sacrifice, a pony is worth about the same as a lvl 2 artifact, which is 100 bits.

That's.. a bit sad.

Ericwinter · Feb 8, 2021

Pittauro said:
About it being pressing, that's only true if we actually plan for IMMEDIATELY sacrificing our heartifact for the ritual on ourselves. For Selene after all it wil still be quite some time, so it can wait.

I meant as opposed to Forge. I would personally prefer to heal our Frightened before we heal our scar, since a -10 to combat can do a lot more damage than just one less health, especially since it basically nullifies our current Edge bonus. Two whole Levels, for nothing.

Pittauro said:
..you know, from the sacrifice bonuses, we gather that a pony life isn't really worth that much.

+ 10 to both rolls is more or less equivalent to +20 on a single one (with the +20 being actually slightly better as one DC is usually much higher than the other), and the price of a lvl 2 artifact is 100 bits.

So, for a ritual sacrifice, a pony is worth about the same as a lvl 2 artifact, which is 100 bits.

That's.. a bit sad.

Eh~... sort of. Functionally, yeah, we don't get much bonus out of it right now, but in reality the problem is more that we can't use it's full worth, rather than it not actually being worth much. Remember that it gives +10 to every Lore. That's including the ones we're not invoking, and comes out to +90 total. Which is quite a lot. The only problem is that +70 of that goes to waste.

Pittauro · Feb 8, 2021

oh, I just realized WHAT could be a few potentially useful artifacts

Before the Elements of Harmony, there were the PILLARS of Harmony. and each of them left an artifact behind.

Rockhoof's shovel
Netitus, Flash Magnus' fireproof shield
Somnambula's blindfold.
Mistmane's everlasting flower
Mage Meadowbrook's healer mask
Starswirl... diary? Honestly, he had quite a few books, and there's also the magic mirror, but that's in Celestia's possession.

Of course they might not count as lore artifacts, and instead be some kind of harmony artifact... but we really don't know if that's the case, or how it would work.

Ericwinter said:
I meant as opposed to Forge. I would personally prefer to heal our Frightened before we heal our scar, since a -10 to combat can do a lot more damage than just one less health, especially since it basically nullifies our current Edge bonus. Two whole Levels, for nothing.

Don't forget the narrative effects. Velvet's bad leg is brought up quite a bit, so we remember it more easily (and it would also be the more suspicious bit to heal), but it's been at least implied that part of our Knock freakout was due to the Frightened malus we want to heal with the ritual.

It's NOT just about removing the mechanical penalty.

but my main point is simply that we only need to get the artifact 2/1 turn before we actually do the ritual, so if we only intend to do it much later than that, it becomes less urgent.

Personally, to be clear, I'd like to do it as soon as possible. But we DO already have a Heartifact for that! A heart 4 artifact would give us another +10 on the ritual, but it's not strictly necessary, and technically I suppose we could ask the Master to use the ritual on us, if we trust him to actually heal us properly. He basically can't fail the ritual I think, not with the artifact sacrifice as well.

Ericwinter said:
Eh~... sort of. Functionally, yeah, we don't get much bonus out of it right now, but in reality the problem is more that we can't use it's full worth, rather than it not actually being worth much. Remember that it gives +10 to every Lore. That's including the ones we're not invoking, and comes out to +90 total. Which is quite a lot. The only problem is that +70 of that goes to waste.

that's assuming there ARE rituals that can potentially use all 9 lores. Right now we're limited to 2, and are close to finding the ones with 3. going all the way up to 9... it might require us to basically reach the Glory itself to be possible, and I'd be surprised if it's something anyone below a Name, or maybe even an Hour, could do.

I honestly expect us not to ever find rituals beyond 5 circles. one for each hurdle basically. Maybe 6 if we can get the knowledge from a Name or a Hours somehow.

9 sounds just too much.

Ericwinter · Feb 8, 2021

Pittauro said:
Personally, to be clear, I'd like to do it as soon as possible. But we DO already have a Heartifact for that! A heart 4 artifact would give us another +10 on the ritual, but it's not strictly necessary, and technically I suppose we could ask the Master to use the ritual on us, if we trust him to actually heal us properly. He basically can't fail the ritual I think, not with the artifact sacrifice as well.

You're forgetting that we can use an Artifact as a focus, as well. A Level Four Artifact would let us act as we had Level Four, as well as sacrifice the Level Three, which together would create a base of +70. Add Jade's cadre for +10 and whoever is providing the magic score—which should probably be at least +10– and we'll have at least a +90. More if Jade actually does improve her cadre. Meanwhile a Level Four Edge focus would just give us a straight Sixty, no sacrifice required.

Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

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