Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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Let's look on the bright side after this alright guys? Bending Frederick's ass to be metaphorically dicked down by religious cults is a Cliché at this point. Besides, he has experienced worse stuff than this. :V

Once this event is done, we know that the biggest Beastmen Invasion will commence and fuck up at least 60% of the entirety of the Empire. So we can work on that later on once it happens. Bad blood with the Mannan cult will be the less of our problems later.

And I must say that I'm quite exited to see what the QM has in store for us in the next few updates! I'm shaking in apprehension and excitement over the eventual invasion! It's gonna be pretty darn awesome to witness such a gargantuan event!

Well get to see Frederick and Urgdug smash a lot of Beastmen together too!
 
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Reading this I have to say. I'd be careful with the whole keel hauling stuff. There is no safe way to do this. Yes she'd like to avoid killing Frederick I'm sure. We have the necklace and fate points. Also the healer.

However, this isn't a narrative. Torroar rolls and we've rolled bad before. Dudes fair on rolls. So if the dice are bad, he will kill Freddy.
 
It's time for Freddy to get naked again. Or, at the very least get his apparel shredded again.
 
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I have seen some new 'why do we care' posts. I will quote myself again, ironically the one where I said I would be saying it 'one last time'.

But here we go again.

torroar said:
I'll say this one last time.

It's not about Manann sending a storm to destroy your ships. That is a potential thing, but not the main thing. The main thing is the fear of all the faithful on the coasts and rivers of his potential wrath. It's these people, who do your fishing, who do your naval trading, who could come to or leave Ostland by boat, that are the main thing. And their fear of that wrath will, as I have stated previously in a much larger and angrier post than this one, will drive them to run from the waters. Your trade will dry up, because people will be afraid and will not come to Ostland, or set sail from Ostland. Your fishing boats will not sail. Your coastal settlements will wither and die, and it won't matter how many Greatships you try to build, the Cult won't bless them forth from the docks, and the crews won't crew them. Because they are afraid of pissing off Manann. That is what Maghda is trying to get going here. For all affected peoples across Ostland, and further beyond who care, to see and think and say 'Ah, Manann has been appeased, thus we can and should sail our boats and fish our fish and so on and so forth'.

The People. Of. Ostland's. Coasts. And. Rivers. Are. Afraid. Of. Manann. They also worship him, because fearing and respecting him is literally the whole deal of the faith, placating him and very occasionally getting spiffy rewards. Spitting on their faith, stomping on it and saying 'it doesn't matter, shut the fuck up about Manann it doesn't matter his desires don't matter' will quite simply not work.
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Furthermore:

torroar said:
There's a reason I explicitly pointed out Salkalten being a point of holy wrath in defense of the people by Manann in my angry post a short while ago. And why I've characterized Maghda as caring deeply for the Faithful of Manann explicitly in these past two updates, focusing explicitly on 'how can we make things better for them/reassure them'. Because she really cares about them! And, like, yes, the Greatships would not be under Ostland control, but my god, why would you think she would want to explicitly harm the Faithful of Ostland. The point is for Frederick to make the sacrifice because of the pride and money put in them, not anyone else. Otherwise, she would have been like 'hey, yeah, let's do some penance for the wife and the ogre and all the Greatswords and so on and so forth'. The punishment is for Frederick, no one else's. She also sneered on the tendency for there to be collateral damage when the Sigmarites go a-bashing. So why...why...why...would you think she'd accept causing collateral damage to Manann's Faithful in Ostland in the course of this?

It was supposed to come up organically next update, as the levels of appeasement could improve Maghda's level of authority amongst the Cult, meaning she could allocate more funds and effort to protecting the holy site of Salkalten's temple or things like that, but I didn't want to explicitly spell that out here, because its supposed to be a personal vote of thought not something that metagames on the potential offerings afterwards.

She would never, ever, ever countenance an act that would cause more harm to Ostland's faithful to the Cult, especially when she's made it clear how this is supposed to help them spiritually and mentally so that they can go out and do stuff physically.

Just...try to consider the subtext and extrapolate, please? I'm sorry if it was too obscure, if it was, that's on me, but...just...yeah.
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Causing Ostland's coastal defenses to weaken, and thus bring harm to Manann's Faithful? Is explicitly anathema to her.

She is Sea-Born. She has not been involved in the political infighting of the Empire, or even the Empire in general for her entire life. What she cares about is Manann's Faithful, and reassuring and protecting and aiding them how she can. She has explicitly spat on her predecessor's policies and political acting, and made sure to read up on Frederick as best she could before he got to Marienburg, and I noted in the update how she's pleased that he's proving some of the stories told about him right, and some of them wrong.

The point, again, is not, under any measure, for the Faithful of Ostland to suffer because of this, but in fact to be reassured and revitalized. Which is why Frederick is doing the penances, because to them, a significant portion of the province's population, 'They Don't Like That Thing That Happened'. These aren't thousands upon thousands of priests, these are thousands and thousands of sailors, fishermen, stevadores, and so on, who are scared shitless that something is going to happen if Manann is never placated, or even a gesture made towards said stuff. Faithful of Manann are noted to be the outright most absurdly superstitious in the bevy of the Empire. They basically have an endless stream of weird gestures, rituals, mutters, prayers, stances, acts, etc. the moment they hit open water to when they hit shore. Even if Manann never does anything, well neither will they out of fear of the day that 'nothing' becomes 'something', and are trending towards doing 'nothing' themselves because of said fear.

You can, I suppose, treat that swathe of Ostland's population like hostile dirt. I just...don't think that seems in-character, at the very least.

SuperSonicSound said:
If anything the only thing I would say is that the Matriarch of the Mannanites feels like she's being to reasonable, I can only imagine it's because she's read up so extensively on Fredrick that she does actually respect his deeds and accomplishments even as she's disgusted with what the witch hunters did.
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Ironically, I thought it would be an interesting subversion for her to be extensively more reasonable than most normal religious authorities in the Empire by virtue of her spending her life at sea separate from the politics and infighting of the Empire. She's a Priestess-Captain turned Matriarch of the Cult, and by that virtue alone she's already begun to have friction with certain elements who had gotten used to a leader who was far less willing to utilize the wealth of the Cult for other measures, and more willing to use its influence on other matters than she feels they should have.

But here we are, regardless.

----------------------------------------------------

Vote's open.
 
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[X] Freddy's Established Response To Performing Public Penances
- [X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
--[X] 3, including Oskar's Omen
[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
-[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
 
[X] Plan: All In, As Usual
-[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (All 5) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
 
[X] Plan Not all the Great Ships
-[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
---[X] Frederick's Fist and Oskar's Omen
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
 
[X] Plan: All In, As Usual
-[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (All 5) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
 
[X] Plan Not all the Great Ships
- [X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
--[X] 2, The two named after Fred and Natasha because having a ship named after you is all about pride.
[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
-[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
 
Plan Doing it right the first time Mk1b
[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
-[X] 'Fist of Frederick, Natasha's Grace, and Oskar's Omen
[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
-[X] Five-Tined Hunter: A wolf ship of the Cult of Manann that sails regularly against corsairs, pirates, worshippers of Stromfels, Druchii, and so on. [Dangerous/Appeasement/Approval Gain]

I am honestly both amazed and dismayed that people are voting to go for the extreme option in keelhauiling which has the most chances of him dying.
 
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[X] Plan: All In, As Usual
-[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (All 5) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]

Damn, ninja'd. I'll just quote my original argument for going all in here since there's apparently been quite a bit of discussion since then.

spudman said:
Finally found some time to catch up on reading and the discussion.

The greatships are meant to satisfy the priesthood of the cult that think long term.

Giving away all our greatships will hurt our defenses, but not cripple them. We still have a lot of ships, mercenaries, and shore defenses. And we can focus on building more greatships in the years to come. As far as weregild goes, this is fairly cheap considering what we cost the cult.

And if we make a big statement by entrusting all our greatships to the Cult of Manann, then I do not doubt that Maghda could and would devote some or even most of them to defending the Empire's northern shores. She wants to HELP all of Manann's faithful, including those in Ostland.

If we trust her with all our greatships it's the best possible feather in her cap. One she will use for greater influence in the cult and she won't let our people be defenseless.

It's also on par with us paying off the weregild to Talabacland after the vampire war. A reconciliation gift of such magnitude may well get Frederick another NAME, a positive one.

Plus, the more people see the greatships in action, the more popular they'll be. Which is good for our shipbuilding business and the Empire.


We should also go all in on the keelhauling. The zealot priests and the masses want blood, and so this is something we don't want to half ass and leave them only partially satisfied. Stun them with our own audacity in taking the harshest punishment (while also giving the most ships).

Not even the zealots will be able to question Frederick paid his dues with the harshest option.

And again, the less grumbling from any faction and the more satisfied they are...the more influence Sprenger has. Which is also good for us because an important priest of the mercantile faction is of a family that opposes Frederick.

It also gets us the most reputation boost for accepting the harshest punishment. It could be taken positively as showing personal humility, deference to Manann, as well as toughness depending on who you ask.

We have the light of summer during the process. We also have Adira to heal us afterward if needed. We also have a Fortune Point and Fate Point if it comes down to it.

We can survive it, I'm very confident of that.

And let's not forget the most for both options in appeasing the god of oceans and rivers Will do the most to appease the actual god of oceans and rivers. Because he's a real thing here with real influence and that matters. Because his followers will recognize that and be less wary of Ostland, of course, but also metaphysical boons perhaps even blessings.

In summation: no more half measures.
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We want to be damn sure this is entirely settled and not going to hurt us in the future. The best way to do that, to empower Maghda to be a positive influence on the cult (and in how the aftermath effects us as far as our ships being used and politics in the cult) and even perhaps come out in the positive as far as reputation (with the cult, Manann specifically, and the Empire at large) is to go all the way.

We can build more great ships, but let's not half ass this right now.
 
[X] Plan Not all the Great Ships

Ooh! I'm cool with giving out two of our Greatships. That seems sufficient enough, and I don't really see Frederick giving out all of them with his cannon attitude and actions to this sort of stuff.

Can someone give a proper explanation on why Frederick would agree on giving them all 5 of our best ships? Maybe then I would potentially change my votes. If only someone can explain that sort of action.
 
[X] Plan: All In, As Usual
-[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (All 5) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
 
[X] Plan Two Proper
-[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
-[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
--[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
---[X] 2 Greatships. Fist of Frederick and Natasha's Grace
-[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
--[X] Marvelous Maisel: An extremely large supply ship, apparently used to confer certain supplies to Sea-Born vessels out on the ocean such as medicines that cannot be sourced out on the ocean. Has not been cleaned at all. [More Dangerous/Major Appeasement/Approval Gain]
---[X] Volunteer to go twice. Get healed between bouts.
---[X] Don't wear the Light of Summer during the keelhauling.

Let's not sacrifice the ships named after our kids.
Option four done twice. Heavy penace without the message of being strung across the length of a temple.

For the people who absolutely want to sacrifice a third Greatship? Consider Alexandra's Hammer. It's the oldest after the Fist of Freddy and Natasha's Grace. And Alexandra is the only one of our kids actually responsible for sending secret police after the Manannites suspected of being Holders(in Kislev).
 
VexMasterTyrant said:
[X] Plan Not all the Great Ships

Ooh! I'm cool with giving out two of our Greatships. That seems sufficient enough, and I don't really see Frederick giving out all of them with his cannon attitude and actions to this sort of stuff.

Can someone give a proper explanation on why Frederick would agree on giving them all 5 of our best ships? Maybe then I would potentially change my votes. If only someone can explain that sort of action.
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We can afford it. We can build more ships and we do have lots of other defenses. Consider the greatships the weregild part of recompense. Though it's a lot less in cost then what we'd actually have to pay if we were doing actual weregild for all the priests. Five greatships is actually cheap.

When it comes to apologies, Frederick doesn't do half measures. He paid back Talabacland and did so quickly and got a name for it, restoring some of his rep there and in the Empire in general.

I would hope we've learned that Manann, his cult, and his followers MATTER to the well being of our province and people. We want him appeased and we want everyone to know it.

Frederick has gotten Maghda's measure. She is in this for Manann and the welfare of his followers. So see my above argument for how he can know that she will not leave Ostland defenseless. That she is also a political enemy of the Rutger priest and that the more influence she has (from the greater amount of ships), the better.

Plus, the use of our greatships by the cult is advertising and the greatships are still used to defend the Empire in general and at least some of them will be used to defend Ostland in particular if Maghda has anything to say about it. Which she will if we don't half-ass this.

So as far as the great ships go, it's nothing we can't replace, benefits the cult and the Empire as a whole, and the current greatships are not truly lost to Ostland, just Frederick's direct control.
More genuine sacrifice>greater influence for a fair leader of the cult of Manann, and more approval/appeasement in general, and that includes the cult itself and Manann.
 
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[X]Plan No crippling our defence.

Druchii Ships

[X] Something Else: (Write-In)-gave them to the cult of Manaan to be used as they say fit.

Actual Sacrifice

[X] Refusal: Perhaps you can negotiate for other ships, other tasks? Repeated keelhaulings or something? (Write-In)
-Dedicate the lighthouse you are building to the manaan,as a temple or simbol of his might,gave them the secrets to the wing suits for the sea born and pledge your help and that of the ostland navy for either a expedition organized by the cult or a policy they wanted adopted,as long as the safety of your province or the empire is not threatened.Also pledge to build more shrines to manaan in the province plus funding a number of priest for the cult training.

Keelhauling

[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)

-[X] Marvelous Maisel: An extremely large supply ship, apparently used to confer certain supplies to Sea-Born vessels out on the ocean such as medicines that cannot be sourced out on the ocean. Has not been cleaned at all. [More Dangerous/Major Appeasement/Approval Gain]
 
VexMasterTyrant said:
[X] Plan Not all the Great Ships

Ooh! I'm cool with giving out two of our Greatships. That seems sufficient enough, and I don't really see Frederick giving out all of them with his cannon attitude and actions to this sort of stuff.

Can someone give a proper explanation on why Frederick would agree on giving them all 5 of our best ships? Maybe then I would potentially change my votes. If only someone can explain that sort of action.
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My understanding of the argument goes like this:

Whatever greatships are given to the Cult are not going to just sit in port somewhere as trophies.
Instead, they'll be actively used and sent wherever the need is greatest, including Ostland.
Every greatship we donate/sacrifice is going to be both a bonus to the Empire's defenses as a whole and free advertisement.
Finally, we have been promised we will be able to build two greatships at once in the future in order to replenish our personal fleet quickly.

Finally, as an aside, I personally expect that between our relatively week navy and expected high approval, most of the greatships will be sticking around our coast anyway.
 
[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way

Druchii Ships
[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]

Actual Sacrifice
[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
-[X] Fist of Frederick
-[X] Natasha's Grace
-[X] Oskar's Omen

Keelhauling
[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
-[X] Marvelous Maisel: An extremely large supply ship, apparently used to confer certain supplies to Sea-Born vessels out on the ocean such as medicines that cannot be sourced out on the ocean. Has not been cleaned at all. [More Dangerous/Major Appeasement/Approval Gain]
 
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