Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

BirdBodhisattva · Jul 9, 2021

Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

Kaelor said:
PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.

(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)

Bakkasama · Dec 4, 2020

permeakra said:
Selene isn't normal in any sense, and giving her someone to care for would be quite a good lesson in responsibility. This nicely solves two problems: we give Jade a reason to live and we give Selene a person to talk to that isn't us and is in the know of occult, so in my opinion is an option to look into.

Selene is mentally a filly; her circumstances may be special but we took her in to give her a chance to be happy while she healed.

There used to be a tradition in some parts of my family that luckily faded before I was born. They would gift children of a certain age chicks as a pet at the begining of the year so that they could raise them and learn responsability, as well as keep them entertained. Then they would cook it for dinner on christmass. It did teach a lesson but I am not sure it was one we would agree with today.

This is that but a thousand times worse. A child should not be responsible for another person's life or mental well being.

Emissary · Dec 4, 2020

SmashQueen said:
A thought.
>Jade sees Selene by chance.
>Jade sees who this is.
>Silky rushes in, tagging her and calling her sister.
>They rush off to play.

"You're not going to say anything?"
"No."
"Why...?"
"Because you...you cared when no one else did."

Alternatively she see Selene by chance, realizes who she is, and realizes that we were planning on undermining what little purpose she has left.

jason1stlegion said:
I don't agree with the bolded part. I explicitly think that both friendship options have the potential to help her stand on her own, if in different ways (giving her strength vs cutting her chains). If we just try to fill the emptiness with our own Purpose, it will still be there. From personal experience the Purpose(s) of others is at most a medium-term solution to this kind of hollowness. Really a LANTERN/WINTER/maybe-Grail?/maybe-Moth? path is the only route I see actually working to help her find a Self to be.

Speaking from personal experience, festering suicidal depression is not easily fixed and none of the given options approach anything that I see as a long-term solution. Right now, her place in the cult is a major contributing factor. The friendship option doesn't fix that, it is a stop-gap for immediate situation of Jade being sad at this current moment. The minion option is fixing that problem without addressing the underlying mental issues that caused it to become a major contributing factor. The assisted-suicide option is replacing the problem of suicidal depression with the problem of her being dead, which is less a problem for her and more for the thread.

Xantalos · Dec 4, 2020

jason1stlegion said:
Velvet closed the door and silently walked away. Another thing that should have told him what she was hiding; nobody normal could walk that quietly...

Stormchaser shook his head and turned to the earth pony that he had found sleeping in the guest bedroom. A member of the... group his wi— Velvet had bee— was in.

"Your name was Jade Whistle, wasn't it?"

"...Yes." Her voice was dull, lifeless, as he would expect if he trusted Velvet to tell the truth. But he wasn't sure of anything at the moment.

He asked to be alone with her to learn about her, but he might as well clear two clouds with one kick. "Tell me what you think about Velvet."

"She's... wonderful. She understands, and she cares. She saved me." As she spoke, her voice gained a bit of a cadence, leaving the monotone it had been. When he turned around he saw a small smile on her face.

A terrible suspicion began to form in his mind. He had thought this cult was all she was hiding from him, but...

"...Do you love her?"

The earth pony tilted her head a bit, visibly thinking it over. "...I suppose I do, yes."

(I know Jade isn't actually in love with us. But devoted friendship is also a kind of love, and LANTERN is not the Lore of carefully worded truths...)

Oooooh man that's one way to have that happen. I admit, it would be hilarious, and oddly sweet in a certain sense.

Emissary said:
C) None of the options are healthy and even though it's labelled as unhealthy, the minion option is the one that directly addresses the cause of the problem instead of patting her on the back before throwing her back into the grinder. It's also the option that gives us the best chance to protect her, either from outside threats or herself. We are doing more for her by taking her as a minion that we are by just making sure she is semi-okay after a few days.

None of them are outright healthy, sure, but the minion option to me (and by Bird's admission that it is outright unhealthy) does the exact opposite of addressing the emotional void inside Velvet. It does cover it up and negate its effects by having her devote herself to us, sure, but ... it's still there, gnawing at her, and it'll express itself worse later on.

The friendship options only offer temporary relief, sure, but that's a base off of which we can build into something actually beneficial, assuming we keep devoting effort towards her. If we didn't, she'd almost certainly end up regressing again since we'd have proved to her that no one really cares or is capable of doing so. But knowing SV, I highly suspect we won't be neglecting her unless we have no other option.

jason1stlegion · Dec 4, 2020

Emissary said:
Speaking from personal experience, festering suicidal depression is not easily fixed and none of the given options approach anything that I see as a long-term solution. Right now, her place in the cult is a major contributing factor. The friendship option doesn't fix that, it is a stop-gap for immediate situation of Jade being sad at this current moment. The minion option is fixing that problem without addressing the underlying mental issues that caused it to become a major contributing factor. The assisted-suicide option is replacing the problem of suicidal depression with the problem of her being dead, which is less a problem for her and more for the thread.

Pretty much the perspective I was taking, but in the long term the friendship option has potential to lead to a solution, and is the only one I can see doing so.

Ripples and eddies from the edge of the water may eventually deposit sediment into a hill, if carefully controlled. But if you build a dam around the center, it won't help her get the island of stability she wants.
The friendship option is currently a temporary band-aid, but the Minion option is just a temporary band-aid, with little potential to ever grow into an actual solution and the added difficulty of taking it off before we can apply any such solution

DawnOfBoom · Dec 4, 2020

Yeah, I won't lie.

Playing Cultist Sim these last couple of days influenced my vote 100%.

It can be so damn hard sometimes to find the good minions, you know?

5 Hanger-ons in a row. 5.

[X] Become her new reason to live. She needs something to focus her energy on, somepony who will give her a purpose, and the Master lacked the necessary empathy to do that. You will not commit the same mistake. (Jade Whistle will immediately become your Minion. A Minion is a Confidant who will never betray you, and will always obey your every command. This will not be healthy.)

Xantalos · Dec 4, 2020

DawnOfBoom said:
Yeah, I won't lie.

Playing Cultist Sim these last couple of days influenced my vote 100%.

It can be so damn hard sometimes to find the good minions, you know?

5 Hanger-ons in a row. 5.

[X] Become her new reason to live. She needs something to focus her energy on, somepony who will give her a purpose, and the Master lacked the necessary empathy to do that. You will not commit the same mistake. (Jade Whistle will immediately become your Minion. A Minion is a Confidant who will never betray you, and will always obey your every command. This will not be healthy.)

If it helps influence you otherwise, I'm pretty sure that option is effectively turning her into a jumped-up Pawn, what with the explicit mention of 'always follows your every order'. That doesn't scream autonomy or initiative to me.

DawnOfBoom · Dec 4, 2020

Xantalos said:
If it helps influence you otherwise, I'm pretty sure that option is effectively turning her into a jumped-up Pawn, what with the explicit mention of 'always follows your every order'. That doesn't scream autonomy or initiative to me.

5 thrice-damned hanger-ons.

Your argument is officially chucked into the Malleary.

Edit: plus, we're cultists. Mental health has always been a suggestion, at best.

Edit #2: not that it's an excuse, but Lore-dammit, 5 hanger-ons!!!!

Edit #3: Yes, it's an overreaction. So?

Bakkasama · Dec 4, 2020

That said, I am not sure your regular ol' friendship will cut it here, so we might want to plan how to handle it. As callous as it sounds... we probably have to replace her brother. Just placing a filly in front of her won't help since she is not in a mental space to care for random infant #3, including our daughter.

I will be honest, I have very little idea about how to go about fixing her. The first idea that came to mind was "Have you tried alcohol/drugs/sex/hedonism yet?" and the second was "Get pregnant. You really have to fuck up for the child not to love you and they kind of grow on you during the pregnancy so you will have reason to care". Both options are terrible in that they don't work; if you are depressed and have a child you will likely just be depressed with a child instead of magically fixed.

DawnOfBoom said:
5 Hanger-ons in a row. 5.

Well, there are only 8 of those but yeah, they do tend to come up all together. The first time I got around that was by "I will literally draw every acquaintance card that it is possible to draw before founding the cult"

Emissary · Dec 4, 2020

jason1stlegion said:
Pretty much the perspective I was taking, but in the long term the friendship option has potential to lead to a solution, and is the only one I can see doing so.

Ripples and eddies from the edge of the water may eventually deposit sediment into a hill, if carefully controlled. But if you build a dam around the center, it won't help her get the island of stability she wants.
The friendship option is currently a temporary band-aid, but the Minion option is just a temporary band-aid, with little potential to ever grow into an actual solution and the added difficulty of taking it off before we can apply any such solution

I wouldn't call the minion option a temporary band-aid, that implies that it is both temporary and a band-aid. It is a more permanent and comprehensive solution that will have side-effects down the line; but I don't foresee the friendship option as leading to a solution within a reasonable amount of time for her or us (and I use that order specifically).

Xantalos said:
If it helps influence you otherwise, I'm pretty sure that option is effectively turning her into a jumped-up Pawn, what with the explicit mention of 'always follows your every order'. That doesn't scream autonomy or initiative to me.

Every member of your cult follows your every order. Unless you build enough resentment in them to turn against you, which is surprisingly difficult given the many nigh-impossible and life-threatening tasks you can give them, they will risk life-limb-sanity-and-existence for you with no benefit to themselves.
EDIT:

DawnOfBoom said:
I figured they were in limited numbers, but huh, only 8? Damn, then.

It's really 7, because the only thing the Moth Pawn is good for is being sent off to Poppy.

DawnOfBoom · Dec 4, 2020

Bakkasama said:
Well, there are only 8 of those but yeah, they do tend to come up all together. The first time I got around that was by "I will literally draw every acquaintance card that it is possible to draw before founding the cult"

I figured they were in limited numbers, but huh, only 8? Damn, then.

But yeah, I anyways don't see much of a chance in the nice-pony option losing, so I'll still keep to my vote.

If only because I still would like Jade as my minion. She's competent.

Bakkasama said:
That said, I am not sure your regular ol' friendship will cut it here, so we might want to plan how to handle it. As callous as it sounds... we probably have to replace her brother. Just placing a filly in front of her won't help since she is not in a mental space to care for random infant #3, including our daughter.

I mean, we got our own adventuring brother we could loan out!

What could possibly go wrong?

Skelm · Dec 4, 2020

DawnOfBoom said:
If only because I still would like Jade as my minion. She's competent.

Part of being a competent minion is thinking for yourself! If you want that, you need to do more then just prey on them in a time of need.

Xantalos · Dec 4, 2020

Bakkasama said:
That said, I am not sure your regular ol' friendship will cut it here, so we might want to plan how to handle it. As callous as it sounds... we probably have to replace her brother. Just placing a filly in front of her won't help since she is not in a mental space to care for random infant #3, including our daughter.

I will be honest, I have very little idea about how to go about fixing her. The first idea that came to mind was "Have you tried alcohol/drugs/sex/hedonism yet?" and the second was "Get pregnant. You really have to fuck up for the child not to love you and they kind of grow on you during the pregnancy so you will have reason to care". Both options are terrible in that they don't work; if you are depressed and have a child you will likely just be depressed with a child instead of magically fixed.

DawnOfBoom said:
I mean, we got our own adventuring brother we could loan out!

What could possibly go wrong?

...
I just had a horrible, awful, diabolical idea that's very likely not to be workable, but would be so, so sweet if it did.
Velvet Hill is an open unicorn supremacist, and having cut both us and our pegasus brother out of the line of succession.

We have the option of trying to meet our other brother, Velvet Pride. If we manage that and he doesn't turn out to be a dick, how much of a slap in Hill's face would it be if we played matchmaker between him and a commoner earth pony?

This is of course such a long shot that it's likely impractical to even try and hope for a good ending (there's no guarantee that that sort of thing would help Jade at all, for one, which should be the primary point of concern), but ... think of the look on Hill's face if Velvet Covers manages to ruin his last hope for a continued 'pure' bloodline by engineering a scenario like what happened to her, only worse because Velvet Pride wouldn't even be marrying another noble!

Oh the glee if we could pull that off

Ericwinter · Dec 4, 2020

Xantalos said:
...
I just had a horrible, awful, diabolical idea that's very likely not to be workable, but would be so, so sweet if it did.
Velvet Hill is an open unicorn supremacist, and having cut both us and our pegasus brother out of the line of succession.

We have the option of trying to meet our other brother, Velvet Pride. If we manage that and he doesn't turn out to be a dick, how much of a slap in Hill's face would it be if we played matchmaker between him and a commoner earth pony?

This is of course such a long shot that it's likely impractical to even try and hope for a good ending (there's no guarantee that that sort of thing would help Jade at all, for one, which should be the primary point of concern), but ... think of the look on Hill's face if Velvet Covers manages to ruin his last hope for a continued 'pure' bloodline by engineering a scenario like what happened to her, only worse because Velvet Pride wouldn't even be marrying another noble!

Oh the glee if we could pull that off

Eh, I'm pretty sure that Velvet Pride is still a kid, or at least a teenager of some kind, and not quite adulthood. I doubt we could get him involved with Jade Whistle. On the other hand, depending on just how old he actually is and how old some other ponies are, I could maybe see it happening. We are bound to be interested in a particular farm pony eventually...

DawnOfBoom · Dec 4, 2020

Skelm said:
Part of being a competent minion is thinking for yourself! If you want that, you need to do more then just prey on them in a time of need.

Haaaah.

Yeah, you don't get it.

It's a cultist thing. /s

Xantalos said:
Oh the glee if we could pull that off

Jade would need to lose a couple of years, but hey, we're the moth cultist, so at least kidnapping our little brother is likely to succeed!

Now, for steps 2-10...

Xantalos · Dec 4, 2020

Ericwinter said:
Eh, I'm pretty sure that Velvet Pride is still a kid, or at least a teenager of some kind, and not quite adulthood. I doubt we could get him involved with Jade Whistle. On the other hand, depending on just how old he actually is and how old some other ponies are, I could maybe see it happening. We are bound to be interested in a particular farm pony eventually...

Could've sworn he was mentioned as being a young adult, but I'm willing to concede that I've likely misremembered.

I still kinda want to engineer such a scheme, if only because the sheer salt our father would experience from realizing what's happened will probably be enough that he ascends to Hour-hood as the Salty Hill (Edge/Grail/Lantern affiliation in that order) on the spot.

Bakkasama · Dec 4, 2020

Xantalos said:
Could've sworn he was mentioned as being a young adult, but I'm willing to concede that I've likely misremembered.

I still kinda want to engineer such a scheme, if only because the sheer salt our father would experience from realizing what's happened will probably be enough that he ascends to Hour-hood as the Salty Hill (Edge/Grail/Lantern affiliation in that order) on the spot.

Our contacts page says he is not an adult yet so probably a young colt but not a foal.

WheelOfFortune · Dec 4, 2020

[X] Tell her that you are sorry, and that you have no idea of what you can do to make this any better. But you promise that you will always be there for her, as her friend, and that you will do everything you can. (There is no quick way out of a rut, but she has opened herself to you. And now that you are in, you can at least keep her company.)
-[x] And you will take care of her for the day. Make sure she eats, stay with her until she sleeps. She is in no condition to be left alone in this house, after all. (Gain one scrap of HEART Lore.)

Reinholdt · Dec 4, 2020

[X] Accompany her to the Blank Door. It will be a grim business, walking Jade Whistle back to her room, but at least she will not be alone when she does it. (This will be a mercy, and Jade Whistle will never have to feel anything ever again. Gain two scraps of WINTER Lore. This will be considered a death committed by your own hoofs, but there is no need to worry about investigations or law enforcement.)

Ekzentric Lohner · Dec 4, 2020

[X] Tell her that you are sorry, and that you have no idea of what you can do to make this any better. But you promise that you will always be there for her, as her friend, and that you will do everything you can. (There is no quick way out of a rut, but she has opened herself to you. And now that you are in, you can at least keep her company.)
-[X] And you will take her back home with you. Your husband is out of town, you have plenty of guest rooms, and she will not stay for more than a few days. (Gain one scrap of WINTER Lore.)

We should loop Rarity in on helping Jade - giving a makeover to a house isn't quite the same as giving a makeover to a pony, but it uses many of the same "how can transforming the appearance of this thing make others assign a different, better meaning to it" skills. Maybe some of the servants too - we can't tell them about the cult stuff, but Ponpon at least is perceptive enough to work out exactly why the state of unkemptness is but a symptom of that house's true horror.

Bakkasama said:
Something to consider, if we fail to keep Jade from finding Selene then I am not sure what we can tell her to convince her not to tell? We would probably have to ask it as a favor to us as the one mare that is expressing concern for her, since by her own admission she has trouble caring about things. So it being the most efficient path doesn't really contribute since she doesn't really care about whether the Worms win or not and it being the best for Luna doesn't seem like it would move her either.

The truth would work just fine as well - Jade herself has noted the Master's lack of empathy, and her entire situation is an example of why the Master's interpersonal skills cannot be trusted with keeping somepony a) mentally healthy and b) loyal. Jade may have no reason to keep quiet, but she also has no reason to tell - she knows the Master's approval won't fill the void inside her, and the purpose of the cult itself, however little Jade actually cares about that, is best served by hiding Selene from the Master until she is restored so the Master doesn't screw up making her a) mentally healthy enough to carry out her Purpose and b) connected enough to Ponykind to want to.

Emissary said:
Alternatively she see Selene by chance, realizes who she is, and realizes that we were planning on undermining what little purpose she has left.

We're planning on honestly helping with her ritual. It might not be needed for its original purpose, but it can be useful for other things, even in a form that returns a false negative for "Princess Luna".

Edit: Also, this:

thamuzz said:
Y'all might want to throw a trigger warning at the start of this.

@BirdBodhisattva You've done an amazing job of making this a thing of visceral horror, and you've done so for something people can have some pretty severe real-world trauma about. Springing this on readers without a warning isn't quite on the same level as epilepsy-triggering GIFs on the content dickery scale, but it's high up enough to matter.

Lykantos · Dec 4, 2020

[X] Accompany her to the Blank Door. It will be a grim business, walking Jade Whistle back to her room, but at least she will not be alone when she does it. (This will be a mercy, and Jade Whistle will never have to feel anything ever again. Gain two scraps of WINTER Lore. This will be considered a death committed by your own hoofs, but there is no need to worry about investigations or law enforcement.)

I know this won't win, but I want those Winter scraps, and I kind of want to see how the Inner Circle or especially the Master reacts to Jade's death. Would they (the Master) be shocked? Feel regret that their efforts weren't enough? Just accept it and move on? I want to know.

Of course, the thread will likely pick the 1 scrap Winter option, which I don't mind too much, besides the fact that it basically adds another action sink. Socialing Jade will continue to take up actions (which is realistic) and I just don't care enough about her, I guess.

Alchemist767676 · Dec 4, 2020

[X] Tell her that you are sorry, and that you have no idea of what you can do to make this any better. But you promise that you will always be there for her, as her friend, and that you will do everything you can. (There is no quick way out of a rut, but she has opened herself to you. And now that you are in, you can at least keep her company.)
-[X] And you will take her back home with you. Your husband is out of town, you have plenty of guest rooms, and she will not stay for more than a few days. (Gain one scrap of WINTER Lore.)

jason1stlegion · Dec 4, 2020

Rereading the update, I notice that Jade herself verbally stated that she "can't take" living in her house anymore. Forcing her to do so anyway (the Heart option) might decrease her faith in us.

reborn214 · Dec 4, 2020

Emissary said:
A) how the hell is Jade Whistle not the Winter Disciple?!

She may have a mindset similar to the Winter Discple such as rememberance of the dead, but she is missing the crucial ingredient. I doubt she finds any beauty in the death of her brother or mother. While, if you look at every single Winter Hour, they find beauty or some sort of satisfaction at the end. The wolf in its joy of destruction. The Egalist in the palest painting which is beauty. Even crazy, Windy Flakes was smiling once he killed a pony.

Jade in no way shape or form can turn the death of her family and create beauty from it or associate any sort of comforting thoughts from it.

Xantalos · Dec 4, 2020

BirdBodhisattva said:
"and his cutie mark was the image of a small adventuring kit. A little lantern, some rope and… some other things more… it was hard to tell. But a few days after that happened father left, saying he couldn't stand to live here anymore, and then mother gave up,"

BirdBodhisattva said:
The noose, you can tell, seems to have been here… for quite a while now. You tentatively touch it with a hoof, and although you can only mostly tell that it is made of rope, you do get a glimpse of sorts that this thing is also "old" in a way.

I wonder where this rope factors in the tragic history of her family. I wouldn't find myself overly surprised if her brother took it on his expedition, way back when.

And yeah, Jade probably has a minor alignment to Winter from just how much she's been sitting in death for however many years now, but she hasn't found any peace in it. Her perfect certainty that her brother's death was her fault for not acting differently has been tormenting her. And it'll keep on doing so until she either passes the Blank Door forever or someone helps her see otherwise.

WolfNight · Dec 4, 2020

[X] Tell her that you are sorry, and that you have no idea of what you can do to make this any better. But you promise that you will always be there for her, as her friend, and that you will do everything you can. (There is no quick way out of a rut, but she has opened herself to you. And now that you are in, you can at least keep her company.)
-[X] And you will take her back home with you. Your husband is out of town, you have plenty of guest rooms, and she will not stay for more than a few days. (Gain one scrap of WINTER Lore.)

Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

A bodhisattva, by definition, must die to move on.

There is always a greater fool

Turtle-Speed Writing

Turtle-Speed Writing

There is always a greater fool

Turtle-Speed Writing

Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator

Turtle-Speed Writing

There is always a greater fool

I miss Wildstar...

Deep in thought

Turtle-Speed Writing