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Zootopia

Revlid said:
Hm. Before I went to see Zootopia (or Zootroplis, as it's known over here) I read a review which claimed that the film undermined its own message for cheap gags. How can it promote equality and anti-discrimination when the sloths are actually slow, the wolves howl on cue, and so on? After I actually saw it, I could only conclude that they'd somehow totally missed what the film's message was.
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I do think the sloths at the DMV undermine the message a bit - not because the sloths are all slow, but because the way the scene is framed for laughs. By presenting it as something to be laughed at, it says that we're supposed to/allowed to laugh at the traits of distinct demographic groups. Which feels a bit at odds with the overall message that racism, homophobia, and other kinds of bigotry are totally uncool.
 
Eukie said:
I do think the sloths at the DMV undermine the message a bit - not because the sloths are all slow, but because the way the scene is framed for laughs. By presenting it as something to be laughed at, it says that we're supposed to/allowed to laugh at the traits of distinct demographic groups. Which feels a bit at odds with the overall message that racism, homophobia, and other kinds of bigotry are totally uncool.
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But pretty much all the humour in the movie was derived from perceived or actual differences between the animals.

Does the rodent's car blowing away in the wind because rodent cars have to be small undermine the message? How about the lemmings all doing what all the other lemmings do?
 
RedDwarfIV said:
But pretty much all the humour in the movie was derived from perceived or actual differences between the animals.

Does the rodent's car blowing away in the wind because rodent cars have to be small undermine the message? How about the lemmings all doing what all the other lemmings do?
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"Rabbits are carrot farmers? DAT'S RACIST."

It's just people being stupid.
 
Eukie said:
I do think the sloths at the DMV undermine the message a bit - not because the sloths are all slow, but because the way the scene is framed for laughs. By presenting it as something to be laughed at, it says that we're supposed to/allowed to laugh at the traits of distinct demographic groups. Which feels a bit at odds with the overall message that racism, homophobia, and other kinds of bigotry are totally uncool.
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The thing that the movie got is that some stereotypes are baseless fabrication...

But others can be grounded in reality. What was it Nick Wilde said?

So your from the Burrows? How about a carrot farmer.

He had her pegged as a country girl carrot farmer from a massive family the moment he laid eyes on her. He knew exactly what she was about, why she was here, and how things were going to go for her. A bunny stereotype to be sure. I think the movies message wasnt that stereotypes are bad, or that you shouldnt hold them...

They exist. They are formed by the murky joining of peoples perceptions versus the reality. If Eastern Europe has a massive agricultural industry, a lot of people are going to stereotype eastern europeans as being a bunch of poor hick farmers who dropped out of high school. Even if that person is attending university and is a straight A student going into theoretical physics.

But just because people stereotype you doesnt mean you have to stay on the farm for your entire life. Its a free world, and you are the only one truly stopping you from being the first bunny cop.

:)
 
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Regarding the sloths, wasn't the very last joke of the film a subversion of their stereotype? Seems pretty on-message to me.
 
Jace911 said:
Regarding the sloths, wasn't the very last joke of the film a subversion of their stereotype? Seems pretty on-message to me.
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I was thinking about that. The part at the DMV was kind of necessary for the final joke to have the impact it does. It needed to be hammered home that this is how sloths behave so that it could then be shown that they are not all like that in a way you will remember.
 
I'm not sure I find the existence of stereoypes themselves problematic as long as the film makes the effort to demonstrate that those stereotypes are not universal and all-encompassing, and that people shouldn't be held to them because they can always prove you wrong.

You know the phrase "dance like a white dude?" That's practically my Borderlands intro subtitle whenever I go to a club. It's criminally bad. Sometimes I'm such a white boy my friends roll their eyes and poke fun at it, which is fine because they also know that there's plenty about me that doesn't fit neatly into a stereotype. Demographics have trends of culture and behavior, but they can and often do break out of that and defy their own stereotypes. That's where profiling and judging people based on race/sex/etc carries actual harm, because you're denying their individual identity and trying to shove them into a box.

Which is exactly what this movie spent it's runtime telling people not to do.
 
Jace911 said:
I'm not sure I find the existence of stereoypes themselves problematic as long as the film makes the effort to demonstrate that those stereotypes are not universal and all-encompassing, and that people shouldn't be held to them because they can always prove you wrong.
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This. I'm an argumentative Jew from a family of argumentative Jewish lawyers and celebrate Hanukkah and eat Challah... but I never got a Bar Mitzvah, I also celebrate Christmas, and I eat pork. Patterns do exist, its just that stereotypes attempt to codify them, and often leads to them being enforced into self-fulfilling prophecies, a point which is central to Nick's character. Someone being Jewish means they might be disproportionately likely to fall into one or more stereotypes associated with Jews, but that doesn't mean they will adhere to any specific one, or most ones. Zootopia is a rare movie precisely because it grasped the nuanced dichotomy of it.
 
Minor FYI- It just passed up Hobbit in worldwide box office to take the 24 of all time slot, since Japan is still trickling in tickets sold (it reached 70m there).
 
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