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Xander [quest], Thread Nine: And Then Suddenly, Fairies!

Nightblade said:
I still want to know why our Alignment is still true neutral. Shouldn't it have changed by now?
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I imagine its because we really haven't been challenged enough on the Law-Order axis to justify an alignment change, and that for the Good-Evil axis we have examples in either direction. We don't go out of our way to hurt people, and we risk ourselves to help acquaintances, but we also killed Gorn and the Sorceror. Those might not be evil since they were mostly in self defense, but they probably weren't good either.

So neutral until we get to a few more moral challenges.
 
An alignment switch to Lawful Good is fine, so long as we don't degenerate to Lawful Stupid. I think part of it though is the fact that we are still technically only eight and as such still considered a child. Most cultures and religions consider children 'pure' and 'innocent.' This is mostly because it is believed that children can't consciously choose between Good and Evil yet and are inherently born Good. Of course, in DnD alignment is a choice. As such, children are usually True Neutral. Hence our alignment. Of course, I could be over thinking it. In fact, I probably am. But if I don't think of these things, who will? Plus I am bored. That never helps.
 
iamnuff said:
uh no.

killing someone who's trying to kill you does not lead towards an Evil alignment.

There would be no heroes at all if it did.

We are pretty solidly Lawful Good from our actions, with very few chaotic actions sprinkled about for flavour.
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Killing someone who you've already defeated on the other hand isn't. Alex thought it wasn't worth the risk, but he was down. He was still a Sorceror and so possibly dangerous; there were mitigating circumstances, but it's not unequivocally good.

I'm not saying it's downright evil, but it's not necessarily a good action either.
 
arrepio said:
I'd just like call everyone's attention to the fact that Navi's first question after this answer will probably be who we were in our previous life.
Especially considering that there's a male Gerudo with a propensity to come back to life.
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earth-destroyer said:
Its an incredibly bad idea to mention reincarnation, here. Their are three people her mind will immediately go to. Link we don't look like at all, Zelda wrong gender. That only leaves Ganondorf, aka her worst enemy.
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What? Where are people getting this stuff from? She's going to hear that we've reincarnated and will automatically go 'Oh! This person must clearly be the reincarnation of someone I've met personally, rather than any of the other millions of people who have ever lived in Hyrule!' There is no grounding for that sort of leap of logic. Heck, I don't even know if Ganondorf actually has ever re-incarnated at this point in Navi's timeline, since OOT is set fairly early on in the Zelda timeline. Furthermore, even if such has occured, it's not likely she'd know about it. If everyone knew there was a great evil named Ganon/dorf who reincarnated every so often, the entire plot of OOT would fall apart as he never could have wormed his way into the good graces of Zelda's father.
It then follows on that if she doesn't have some sort of absurd meta-knowledge about Ganon's reincarnation, then she would have no reason to suspect she would know personally our reincarnation, and would thus never ask.
Edit: On further double-checking, I can confirm that the only games that are set before OOT are Skyward Sword (which is set pretty far back), Minish Cap and Four Swords, and the latter two have a completely unrelated antagonist. I know people have been making use of meta-knowledge pretty heavily in this game, but it's gotten quite absurd when people are expecting the other characters in the game to make use of meta-knowledge as well. At this point in time, Navi has no way or reason to expect that we are Ganondorf's reincarnation short of the Goddesses having let slip information about us, and if they did that then us mentioning our past life isn't going to really matter.
 
Cytokinesis said:
Killing someone who you've already defeated on the other hand isn't. Alex thought it wasn't worth the risk, but he was down. He was still a Sorceror and so possibly dangerous; there were mitigating circumstances, but it's not unequivocally good.

I'm not saying it's downright evil, but it's not necessarily a good action either.
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Killing in self-defense is always a neutral action.

In this specific case, the Sorceror, had he lived, would have remained a threat. He was NOT helpless, and was defeated only in the sense that he was retreating (and, considering he's using MAGIC, that does not remove him from weapons range, as Alex proved with the like-like).
 
An evil action would have been killing the sorcerer once he surrenders and plead for mercy, and is actually honest about it.

That's why you can be a compassionate person and still rake up a ridiculous personal kill count. Yay Exalted!
 
frozenchicken said:
What? Where are people getting this stuff from? She's going to hear that we've reincarnated and will automatically go 'Oh! This person must clearly be the reincarnation of someone I've met personally, rather than any of the other millions of people who have ever lived in Hyrule!' There is absolutely no grounding for that sort of leap of logic. Heck, I don't even know if Ganondorf actually has ever re-incarnated at this point in Navi's timeline, since OOT is set fairly early on in the Zelda timeline. Furthermore, even if such has occured, it's not likely she'd know about it. If everyone knew there was a great evil named Ganon/dorf who reincarnated every so often, the entire plot of OOT would fall apart as he never could have wormed his way into the good graces of Zelda's father.
It then follows on that if she doesn't have some sort of absurd meta-knowledge about Ganon's reincarnation, then she would have no reason to suspect she would know personally our reincarnation, and would thus never ask.
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Judge has mentioned things from many of the later games in the timeline, including stuff specifically from the downfall timeline (cursing Zelda to sleep). This Navi's branch didn't have a reincarnation, but it did have three revivals. The Child route did have a reincarnation and I wouldn't be surprised if she knew about it, given that Briar knew that some fae with "odd views" towards time have been focused on Hyrule.

It may be overblown concern, and if she ever catches us on the reincarnation thing we can still truthfully tell her that Briar advised not to spread it around since it's a big deal.

If you have a good reason to take the risk I'm all ears, but I don't see why we should if there is not a need to do so.
 
[x] "It's just my sister and I, so far as I know. Briar thought it had something to do with us living on the Hellmouth."
- [x] Try to let Briar take the lead here in the questions, or at least give us something to work with.
- [x] If she asks about Hyrulean Sorcery, mention that it came naturally to us but that we were only really capable of gathering some mana, and could barely cast cantrips until Briar started teaching us. After that we've mostly been taking notes from local magic users and adapting it to the style.

I'd rather she thinks of us as a good person before we tell her we're the reincarnation of Piggy. I do think the Sorcery part of this is a bit silly to say like we were bad at it. Casting even cantrips at that age is genius.
 
[x] "It's just my sister and I, so far as I know. Briar thought it had something to do with us living on the Hellmouth."
- [x] Try to let Briar take the lead here in the questions, or at least give us something to work with.
- [x] If she asks about Hyrulean Sorcery, mention that it came naturally to us but that we were only really capable of gathering some mana, and could barely cast cantrips until Briar started teaching us. After that we've mostly been taking notes from local magic users and adapting it to the style.
 
[x] Write-In Darklight (modified by Cytokinesis).

"It's just my sister and I, so far as I know, ma'am," you reply truthfully. "Briar thought it had something to do with us living on the Hellmouth."

"You live where?" Navi asks sharply.

"Mom, calm down," Briar says. "It's not as bad... okay, I can't even lie about it with a straight face. It is as bad as it sounds, but it's not like the Lost Woods are all sunshine and roses, either. And I'm being really careful, honest! I mean, I've been staying with Alex's family for most of four years now, and in all that time, we've seen exactly ONE demon on the Hellmouth - and that guy was a government employee who came to Alex's school to hand out a written test."

"...I can't have heard that right," the Great Fairy replies after a moment.

"There was a spell worked into the testing materials," Briar explains. "As near as we could tell, it was supposed to help identify kids with magic or other special abilities."

Navi makes a sound of dawning enlightenment.

"And if I hadn't been there to help Alex suppress his aura," Briar continues quickly, "he would have been caught for sure. If that had happened, there are a bunch of people who would have come off a lot worse in the years since. At the very least, his friends wouldn't know about the danger around them or be actively learning to defend themselves from it, courtesy of an old master who can warp space-time without using magic, some kids still wouldn't know about the seals on their souls, a little priestess wouldn't have gotten a head start on making protective charms, and some local old-school Shiekah warrior types would probably be dead."

"I see. So in short, you've found yourself a hero in the making, and you want to help him."

"...he's my friend, Mom."

"Hmmm." Navi doesn't sound entirely convinced.

Perhaps there's something you could say or do to improve her attitude?

[ ] Speak up about how helpful Briar has been - to you, your friends, to other people.
[ ] Tell Navi that you've been looking out for her daughter, and intend to keep on doing so.
- [ ] Mention rescuing Briar from Arrogante. Big demonstration of friendship, right there.
- [ ] Mention rescuing Briar from the monkey. It's less likely to freak Navi out than the giant electric squid.
[ ] Maybe this would be a good time to tell Navi about the accidental familiar bond, and your plans to make it official?
[ ] Is there something else you'd rather say? (Write-in.)
[ ] Or you could say nothing, and wait to see what the Great Fairy has to say.
david151 said:
Oh hey GM there's something I think you need to edit in the last post for the Daycare years arc you put that Briar is one of a hundred and three kids but in the first post for thread nine you changed it to only sixty four so might want to change that.
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OOC: I completely forgot about that, and the first thread is long since locked, so I can't edit it. *sigh* However will I live with the shame?

Anyway, a bit of editing has been done to the first post in this thread to correct this little bout of forgetfulness.
 
[x] Tell Navi that you've been looking out for her daughter, and intend to keep on doing so.
- [x] Mention rescuing Briar from the monkey. It's less likely to freak Navi out than the giant electric squid.
 
[X] How about let not talk about near death experiences. Simply explain that Briar is our first and closest friend we've cared for each other for the last four years and you'd fight to the death to protect her.
 
Kind of wanting to just come clean about past life right now. It might come back to bite us later if we don't.
 
[X] Maybe this would be a good time to tell Navi about the accidental familiar bond, and your plans to make it official?
 
[x] Speak up about how helpful Briar has been - to you, your friends, to other people.
-[x] "Look, ma'am, with all due respect, this isn't 'want to help', this is 'has been helping, for half my life'. I can't think of anyone who has done more for me, my sister, and my friends than Briar. She was there when my sister was born, she helped me tell my friends about magic and has been teaching us what she can, she backed me up in becoming a world champion martial artist (under tens division, but it was still awesome), and she's been keeping me out of trouble- or yelling at me for getting in trouble- for nearly as long as I've been doing dumb things. Which is, uh, always."
-[x] "I know that it's been a long time since Briar was able to get in touch with you, but... well, she's accomplished a lot when you weren't looking. She's a very important person, at least to me." Briar might not want us to bring up the familiar bond on our own, but if she's willing to mention it, that would be her cue.
 
[x] Speak up about how helpful Briar has been - to you, your friends, to other people.
-[x] "Look, ma'am, with all due respect, this isn't 'want to help', this is 'has been helping, for half my life'. I can't think of anyone who has done more for me, my sister, and my friends than Briar. She was there when my sister was born, she helped me tell my friends about magic and has been teaching us what she can, she backed me up in becoming a world champion martial artist (under tens division, but it was still awesome), and she's been keeping me out of trouble- or yelling at me for getting in trouble- for nearly as long as I've been doing dumb things. Which is, uh, always."
-[x] "I know that it's been a long time since Briar was able to get in touch with you, but... well, she's accomplished a lot when you weren't looking. She's a very important person, at least to me." Briar might not want us to bring up the familiar bond on our own, but if she's willing to mention it, that would be her cue.​
 
[x] Speak up about how helpful Briar has been - to you, your friends, to other people.
-[x] "Look, ma'am, with all due respect, this isn't 'want to help', this is 'has been helping, for half my life'. I can't think of anyone who has done more for me, my sister, and my friends than Briar. She was there when my sister was born, she helped me tell my friends about magic and has been teaching us what she can, she backed me up in becoming a world champion martial artist (under tens division, but it was still awesome), and she's been keeping me out of trouble- or yelling at me for getting in trouble- for nearly as long as I've been doing dumb things. Which is, uh, always."
-[x] "I know that it's been a long time since Briar was able to get in touch with you, but... well, she's accomplished a lot when you weren't looking. She's a very important person, at least to me." Briar might not want us to bring up the familiar bond on our own, but if she's willing to mention it, that would be her cue.


Edit: You guys do have a point. [x] Aloysius
 
[X] We make a good team. I save Briar from local wildlife. She saves me from my own foolishness. It seems to have started a low level familiar type bond. We were planning on making it official.

Eh something like that.
 
[x] Speak up about how helpful Briar has been - to you, your friends, to other people.
-[x] "Look, ma'am, with all due respect, this isn't 'want to help', this is 'has been helping, for half my life'. I can't think of anyone who has done more for me, my sister, and my friends than Briar. She was there when my sister was born, she helped me tell my friends about magic and has been teaching us what she can, she backed me up in becoming a world champion martial artist (under tens division, but it was still awesome), and she's been keeping me out of trouble- or yelling at me for getting in trouble- for nearly as long as I've been doing dumb things. Which is, uh, always."
-[x] "I know that it's been a long time since Briar was able to get in touch with you, but... well, she's accomplished a lot when you weren't looking. She's a very important person, at least to me." Briar might not want us to bring up the familiar bond on our own, but if she's willing to mention it, that would be her cue.

Looks good...
 
x] Speak up about how helpful Briar has been - to you, your friends, to other people.
-[x] "Look, ma'am, with all due respect, this isn't 'want to help', this is 'has been helping, for half my life'. I can't think of anyone who has done more for me, my sister, and my friends than Briar. She was there when my sister was born, she helped me tell my friends about magic and has been teaching us what she can, she backed me up in becoming a world champion martial artist (under tens division, but it was still awesome), and she's been keeping me out of trouble- or yelling at me for getting in trouble- for nearly as long as I've been doing dumb things. Which is, uh, always."
-[x] "I know that it's been a long time since Briar was able to get in touch with you, but... well, she's accomplished a lot when you weren't looking. She's a very important person, at least to me." Briar might not want us to bring up the familiar bond on our own, but if she's willing to mention it, that would be her cue.
 
Is this part 'for nearly as long as I've been doing dumb things. Which is, uh, always.' really necessary? Maybe I'm just being a little oversensitive here, but one of the worst parts of canon Xander was his constant self-deprecation and complete surrender on nearly any mental endeavor. And calling yourself dumb, even in jest, leads to that sort of behavior. Plus it also leads to idiotic self-sacrificing tendencies, which more often than not get in the way of actually accomplishing the heroic goal. Canon Xander was also always one of the more ruthless, practical main characters in my opinion (at least when the show wasn't intentionally pushing him down as a man and thus powerless/bad) and that almost always gets ignored in his portrayals elsewhere in favor of ridiculous levels of 'White Knight'. Can't we just have a reasonably intelligent, pragmatic character without 'white knighting'?

If we're just going to reiterate common fanon Xander's personality, now with magical action and kung fu grip, what's the bleeding point?
 
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