The blue people of Avatar come to Earth.
What if the Na'vi (Avatar) appear in the Amazon Rainforest in the year 1400?
- Thread starter Rhymehouse
- Start date
- Early Modern
-
- Tags
- avatar (2009)
- Created
- Status
- Ongoing
- Watchers
- 23
- Recent readers
- 0
- Threadmarks
- 1
-
Statistics (1 threadmarks, 190 words)
User Total Rhymehouse 1 Threadmarks Reader mode
OP
In the 15th Century, the Na'vi of Pandora show up on Earth. Both the forest Na'vi and sea Na'vi appear. For those who don't know, the Na'vi are very tall and strong catlike aliens from the Avatar series. Despite being aliens, ROB allows the Na'vi to breathe the atmosphere on Earth just fine. The Na'vi on Earth also can't bond with animals but they can talk to them. Let's suppose that a million forest Na'vi show up deep in the Amazon and a million sea Na'vi show up along the Brazilian coast.
So how does history change after this event? Will the Na'vi get along with the native South Americans or will they fight wars with each other? Can the Na'vis use their animal empathy powers to great effect in South America? How will the Spanish and Portuguese explorers react to these blue alien people deep in the rainforest and on the coast? Will they trade with them? Will the conquistadors try and enslave them? Will the Na'vi be the dominant "indigeneous" population in South America since they won't suffer from Old World diseases? What else did I miss?
So how does history change after this event? Will the Na'vi get along with the native South Americans or will they fight wars with each other? Can the Na'vis use their animal empathy powers to great effect in South America? How will the Spanish and Portuguese explorers react to these blue alien people deep in the rainforest and on the coast? Will they trade with them? Will the conquistadors try and enslave them? Will the Na'vi be the dominant "indigeneous" population in South America since they won't suffer from Old World diseases? What else did I miss?
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
Navi in the long run will take over the world because of their superior biology and lifespans, unless they have outrageous calorie requirements.
In the short run they will butcher any Conquistadors that try to kill them through brute strength and durability.
Iridium Flare
Cyborg Commando
- Location
- AC-130 Gunship circling overhead
For some incomprehensible reason, the Navi are capable of going up against future-tech and winning. I don't think conquistadors are gonna do well against that. Cloak&Dagger has it right.
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
That's explicitly mentioned in the movie. They have carbon fiber bones and are in general totally superhuman. They'd tear apart medieval armies with their bare hands and their biggest struggle would be making bows that don't immediately snap when they pull on them with any significant strength.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Assuming they're adapted to Earth's gravity as well as atmosphere, well, they own the planet now.
daniel_gudman
KING (in land of blind)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So maybe I'm reading this wrong but the premise is "what if there were Na'vi conquestidors as well as human-Spanish conquestidors" right?
•Na'vi show up sans tree and pandoran ecosystem with brain plugs, creates a highly community focused perspective as the only ones with brain plugs so probalbly focus around that
•realize that everything everywehre wants to murder you and there are very few things that can be reasoned with even without brain plugs
•humans in CA/SA will have toss up as worship of local deities or religious figures, or evil sprits and act accordingly. in peace, all things good. in war, Na'Vi stomp any human.
•Humans get blood feuds going and hate spreads, poisons human perception (amongst hostile human groups), leading into more war and violence, etc etc
•spainards show up, can't easily replace SA religious structure and don't really do much against Na'Vi, but they might get along on more mutual aspects with aggressive SA humans. Take word back to spain about blue skinned devils and demons, probably laughed out of spanish court but they still send preachers to spread christ
•this goes poorly as Na'Vi are fueled by a shared blood feud with deeper family connections than humans, and there can be no peace
•monks find out blue devils are real, send word back to spain
•spain sends word to papacy with evidence
•may or may not result in holy war
•Blue skinned devils make headlines in europe, less asiatic focused and more new world focused and probably funds more expeditions from other empires to see if there are more Na'Vi elsewhere other than in SA
•NA is colonized sooner and don't find Na'Vi, probably goes as normal for NA
•shit still goes poorly for anyone in SA who is at war with Na'Vi
•Na'Vi get aggressive and murderize everything, probably faith based by honoring their ancestors by spilling the blood of any who harms them.
•this is all assuming that sea Na'Vi allow them to do so, but maybe Sea Na'vi and Forest Na'Vi don't get along for some new reason, and help out euros with it.
Just remember that while Pandora wanted to nurse it's children, Mother Earth is perfectly fine and happy to develop new and inventive ways to try and kill us. She's been trying to kill us for the longest time and is proud that she hasn't done it yet. When we started killing her so we could get better at not dying, she was so happy that she had to enlist the service of a ROB to bring in some pampered spoilt space cats to do us in.
It's probably going to work this time, but we've surprised her before.
•realize that everything everywehre wants to murder you and there are very few things that can be reasoned with even without brain plugs
•humans in CA/SA will have toss up as worship of local deities or religious figures, or evil sprits and act accordingly. in peace, all things good. in war, Na'Vi stomp any human.
•Humans get blood feuds going and hate spreads, poisons human perception (amongst hostile human groups), leading into more war and violence, etc etc
•spainards show up, can't easily replace SA religious structure and don't really do much against Na'Vi, but they might get along on more mutual aspects with aggressive SA humans. Take word back to spain about blue skinned devils and demons, probably laughed out of spanish court but they still send preachers to spread christ
•this goes poorly as Na'Vi are fueled by a shared blood feud with deeper family connections than humans, and there can be no peace
•monks find out blue devils are real, send word back to spain
•spain sends word to papacy with evidence
•may or may not result in holy war
•Blue skinned devils make headlines in europe, less asiatic focused and more new world focused and probably funds more expeditions from other empires to see if there are more Na'Vi elsewhere other than in SA
•NA is colonized sooner and don't find Na'Vi, probably goes as normal for NA
•shit still goes poorly for anyone in SA who is at war with Na'Vi
•Na'Vi get aggressive and murderize everything, probably faith based by honoring their ancestors by spilling the blood of any who harms them.
•this is all assuming that sea Na'Vi allow them to do so, but maybe Sea Na'vi and Forest Na'Vi don't get along for some new reason, and help out euros with it.
Just remember that while Pandora wanted to nurse it's children, Mother Earth is perfectly fine and happy to develop new and inventive ways to try and kill us. She's been trying to kill us for the longest time and is proud that she hasn't done it yet. When we started killing her so we could get better at not dying, she was so happy that she had to enlist the service of a ROB to bring in some pampered spoilt space cats to do us in.
It's probably going to work this time, but we've surprised her before.
- Location
- Florida
The natives are f*cked
The native Americans in the Amazon are going to be pushed out by the stronger Navi (assuming navi birth rates are equal to humanity) the incessant wars are going to forge a more unified Navi state. Not one state, mind you but a few larger ones.
by 1492 were going to be in the third generation of Navi and a population that's probably in the 4 million range possibly even large with the sea tribes not facing as many problems.
Assuming Navi are less affected by diseases were going to see the war in the Amazon completely fall in the Navi favor, with most likely a 99% decrease in natives of the region barring those the navi adopt, or sell. The Spaniards will at first view them with laughter, then contempt, then hatred, then begrudging business partners.
The Spanish are still going to take CA, where Navi mercenaries (Exiled Navi who are the first to see and adapt human cultural ticks) will first meet and either fight or assist the conquistadors.
Eventually, the Spaniards will realize any attempts to shake off the Navi will be useless. At that point, they will try spreading the faith of Jesus christ. No crusades because, guys... the Christians couldn't even take the holy land, and its right there. It took hundreds of years of to take spain and the Baltics. Besides that, the Christian nations can't agree on shit, even if it were Demonetts that infested the continent.
If the Navi can breed with humans than long term were going to do to them what we did to Neanderthal. If they can't... well due to thier natural strength and equivalent states in everything else that Navi will rule SA. It will be seen as a fair continent. Slavery never truly takes off amongst humanity in the new world out side of the sugar plantations.
The native Americans in the Amazon are going to be pushed out by the stronger Navi (assuming navi birth rates are equal to humanity) the incessant wars are going to forge a more unified Navi state. Not one state, mind you but a few larger ones.
by 1492 were going to be in the third generation of Navi and a population that's probably in the 4 million range possibly even large with the sea tribes not facing as many problems.
Assuming Navi are less affected by diseases were going to see the war in the Amazon completely fall in the Navi favor, with most likely a 99% decrease in natives of the region barring those the navi adopt, or sell. The Spaniards will at first view them with laughter, then contempt, then hatred, then begrudging business partners.
The Spanish are still going to take CA, where Navi mercenaries (Exiled Navi who are the first to see and adapt human cultural ticks) will first meet and either fight or assist the conquistadors.
Eventually, the Spaniards will realize any attempts to shake off the Navi will be useless. At that point, they will try spreading the faith of Jesus christ. No crusades because, guys... the Christians couldn't even take the holy land, and its right there. It took hundreds of years of to take spain and the Baltics. Besides that, the Christian nations can't agree on shit, even if it were Demonetts that infested the continent.
If the Navi can breed with humans than long term were going to do to them what we did to Neanderthal. If they can't... well due to thier natural strength and equivalent states in everything else that Navi will rule SA. It will be seen as a fair continent. Slavery never truly takes off amongst humanity in the new world out side of the sugar plantations.
- Location
- United Kingdom
They all die because they can't breathe?
Assuming we're just ignoring that, you sort of have to ignore lots of other things too which I think weakens the TL, but yes there was one of AH which went into some things well. Largely goes to the questions on how they react etc I suppose but yes if there's a million of them you're not dislodging them with squishy humans
Assuming we're just ignoring that, you sort of have to ignore lots of other things too which I think weakens the TL, but yes there was one of AH which went into some things well. Largely goes to the questions on how they react etc I suppose but yes if there's a million of them you're not dislodging them with squishy humans
wahooley
Sorry for the inconvenience
There's a lot more to consider other than just breathing the same air. Can they eat the local flora and fauna? Can they handle the microbes? Can the local wildlife handle THEIR microbes? I find it very hard to imagine them not constantly vomitting/shitting everywhere when they arent starving to death.
So how well do the Na'vi handle fire? Cause burning down the forest and scorched earth tactics are likely what humans would do. Humans would likely lose any direct fight against the Na'vi unless humans had an overwhelming number advantage (quick search says 350,000,000 humans in the 1400s which is down from 1200s' 360,000,000 vs 2,000,000 Navi but the Navi are more concentrated) so humans would likely act to make themselves as unappealing targets as possible. So Humans to Na'vi would likely be pests if hostilities were unavoidable.
Given 400 years or so when none of the living Navi have met the first arrivals and if the Na'vi spread out and form different groups that have some mingle with humans, humans and Na'vi would likely have shared combat doctrines with Na'vi acting as heavy units with human support. Mainly things like humans working with Na'vi against other Na'vi by hampering the enemy Na'vi's movements with things like ropes, chains, lassos, and nets while allied Na'vi strike the enemy down until human weapons develop enough to make up the difference in physical strength. A relationship similar to what goblins are seen to have with bigger green folk in fantasy stories. If society develops with humans in a better position than the Na'vi, the Na'vi would likely be treated as specialists in regard to military or as living weapons if society was really unfavorable to them, and if society develops to favor Na'vi over humans then humans would be support, logistics, or grunts.
Which future world power would welcome them first is hard to say, they would likely need to have a comfortable environment for the Na'vi, an enemy the Na'vi could help against, and a way for the Na'vi to get to them. The first Na'vi/human nations would likely be Na'vi groups that welcome human refugees and keep them around but the lack of infrastructure and the Na'vi's lack of need for developing infrastructure would mean the humans wouldn't contribute much. The next Na'vi/human nations would be Na'vi exiles wandering into human settlements and sticking around until a Na'vi community builds itself in side the human one, about 2 generation or 50ish years in you would have Na'vi that consider themselves apart of the Na'vi/human community over just the Na'vi one and those may support war efforts. Next would be an exodus of Na'vi that join a human nation, after some disaster a group of Na'vi are forced to move and come across a human group and the two groups make a deal so they can live together, this set would be as equal as it gets really without a few centuries and a couple civil rights movements. Last Na'vi/human set would be forced ones where one or the other decided they should conquer and/or enslave the other, humans may want their own blue demons to fight humans or other blue demons for them so they try to kidnap the young ones and raise them to be loyal to them or a couple Na'vi think humans would be great pets so they round a bunch of them up, etcetera.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Even putting the oxygen issue aside, they all die of heart failure in relatively short order. They evolved in much lighter gravity than earth. Super carbon nanofiber bones don't matter when your heart explodes from the strain of trying to pump blood to a brain that high off the ground.
Have you noticed that humans or Earth machines have a difficult time moving on Pandora or can jump really high on the planet. Of course not, because the gravity on Pandora is very close to the gravity on Earth. Next time do some research.
And for the other posters, use some common sense. Why would I bother with a thread if all the Na'vi were just going to die days after being transported?
Last edited:
- Location
- boundless optimism
They are, to a man, killed by the application of fire science, the power of the Spaniards the Na'vi know not.
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
At this point there are a lot more people living in the Amazon then there are Na'vi. There were towns, villages, even cities all over Amazonia, with a combined population in the millions. At least until Europeans arrive anyway(just like the Mound Builders up north along the Mississippi, Old World diseases wiped out the various cultures and peoples of the Amazon so thoroughly that it wasn't until relatively recently that we even knew they existed at all).
Funny little piece of trivia, turns out the Amazon's current structure was at least half artificial. The natives cultivated it so they wouldn't have to go far to grab food.
Last edited:
- Location
- the Literature Club
It's a rainforest. It's extremely hard to burn down a rainforest, because of how much water is involved.
It CAN be done, but it takes a while and a lot of effort and in short, the Na'vi are going to notice you trying to do it. And then you're going to be shot through by an arrow that's longer than you are tall.
It CAN be done, but it takes a while and a lot of effort and in short, the Na'vi are going to notice you trying to do it. And then you're going to be shot through by an arrow that's longer than you are tall.
The Amazon — and our future — is being burned for profit - Greenpeace International
The Amazon rainforest is shrinking. The fires in the Amazon are growing. And the impacts of this destruction are a risk to the entire planet.
www.greenpeace.org
Just going to say, not only can it be done, it has been done. People do in fact burn down parts of the Amazon rain forest to clear land for other uses. Doing so is not legal but I'm not sure what or who is enforcing it.
Last edited:
- Location
- San Francisco
The Amazon — and our future — is being burned for profit - Greenpeace International
The Amazon rainforest is shrinking. The fires in the Amazon are growing. And the impacts of this destruction are a risk to the entire planet.
Just going to say, not only can it be done, it has been done. People do in fact burn down parts of the Amazon rain forest to clear land for other uses. Doing so is not legal but I'm not sure what or who is enforcing it.
Often said people get away with it because, as you say, there is very little in the manner of enforcement mechanism or consequences beyond fines.
Having all parties responsible be skull-punched by giant arrows in the dead of night sounds like a big discouragement mechanism.
That aside, I feel like this would work better if say, a chunk of Pandora's biosphere, specifically adapted for Earth, were transplanted along with said Na'vi. Suddenly you have a whole invasive biosphere to contend with, which makes the prospect much more interesting. Maybe we can say that proximity to the pandoran plantlife also undercuts the breathing problem, at the cost of making the environment impossible for humans to inhabit.
- Location
- Christchurch, New Zealand
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In both movies, the Na'vi were perfectly willing to ignore humans doing awful things as long as it wasn't happening at their doorstep.
What was the quote from the water people leader when the calf was killed? "We knew it was happening, but it was never here."
I think a lot of the stragegies colonisers used historically would work, especially without the world system to tie them together like they have an Pandora. Divide and conquer, pit tribes against each other and make sure to push a little at a time so they don't unite against the common foe.
If you set the timeline back a few more centuries though, I reckon they'd be a lot more likely to completely replace humans just by being better in the same niche.
What was the quote from the water people leader when the calf was killed? "We knew it was happening, but it was never here."
I think a lot of the stragegies colonisers used historically would work, especially without the world system to tie them together like they have an Pandora. Divide and conquer, pit tribes against each other and make sure to push a little at a time so they don't unite against the common foe.
If you set the timeline back a few more centuries though, I reckon they'd be a lot more likely to completely replace humans just by being better in the same niche.
Last edited:
- Location
- the Literature Club
The problem with the strategies traditional imperialism used is that you use your superior material culture as an inroad. You sell the natives things they can't get anywhere else, and that gives you a lever to pry them apart.
And that's the one thing the Na'vi don't seem to share with primitive (without any derogatory meaning) cultures of our world, if they can't make it, they aren't interested. The evil megacorp in Avatar didn't go in guns blazing from the start, they tried to open trade first, and then they discovered that the Na'vi weren't interested.
They can't make a pair of aviator sunglasses, so they aren't interested in a pair of aviator sunglasses. You can't buy shit with your offworld glass beads and microwavable TV dinners.
They are curious, though. The megacorp built a school, and the Na'vi decided, it doesn't cost us anything to send our children there, so why not go and see if there's anything interesting to learn? But then the megacorp had a whole shootout in the school, which is very true to life, and the Na'vi decided they weren't that curious after all.
And that's the one thing the Na'vi don't seem to share with primitive (without any derogatory meaning) cultures of our world, if they can't make it, they aren't interested. The evil megacorp in Avatar didn't go in guns blazing from the start, they tried to open trade first, and then they discovered that the Na'vi weren't interested.
They can't make a pair of aviator sunglasses, so they aren't interested in a pair of aviator sunglasses. You can't buy shit with your offworld glass beads and microwavable TV dinners.
They are curious, though. The megacorp built a school, and the Na'vi decided, it doesn't cost us anything to send our children there, so why not go and see if there's anything interesting to learn? But then the megacorp had a whole shootout in the school, which is very true to life, and the Na'vi decided they weren't that curious after all.
GhostKing 666
Bringing Nightmares to life evey minute
Well, they are going to have to learn anyway. In 1400, the Amazonia region was very heavily populated, with many different cultures inhabiting it's seven million square kilometers of space. I think the current estimate is something like eight to ten million people, with multiple cities rivalling contemporary London in population.
Right now, it's 92 years before Columbus makes it across the Atlantic, 142 years before Francisco de Orellana travels the Amazon River, leaving smallpox in his wake. More than enough time for the Na'vi to start adopting to the native cultures around them, and thus possibly prevent the in-coming apocalypse from being so completely civilization erasing(if only from the Na'vi being able to keep it going and preventing the loss of critical knowledge while fending off the European colonizers while the native survivors recover in population).