What if RWBY was Realistic?

ThePoarter

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Now this isn't the thread for bashing in anyway shape of form. RWBY is a decent show in my opinion for all its constraints. However I am not blind to its flaws.

The show has its fair share of issues and I do believe that some of them should be talked about. Assuming that the basic premise was the same how different would the show be if it was realistic?

What would be different?

Why is this particularly important?

And more. In essence what would you need to do to build the world to a better form from scratch?
 
I think we had a thread about this before, though the title of the thread escapes me ...
 
You don't need 'realism' to write a decent story.

What you need is simply an internal logic that does not smash the audience's SoD and a coherent plot, alongside some interesting characters.
 
I don't think that realism is what the show ever needed.

Or did you mean verisimilitude?

I think I mean consistent. Think about it like this. If your world had dragons what kind of human society would actually develop from it? It would depend on the type of dragon of course.

Take RWBY for example. It'd be a world where there SHOULD be dozens if not hundreds of inter-connected city states ruled by a governing body that helped with the facilitation and education of hunters. New techniques and idealogies would be tested but the population should be great enough that they should be able to make a million hunters a day.

Rule of thumb: Higher tech requires greater infrastructure which requires greater specialization which requires more people.

The world of remnant should have 14 - 28 Billion people with a thousandth of that many hunters. Even if you divided it by a hundred, and that's a big if for functioning industrial global society, there should be nearly 140,000 Hunters running around.
 
Ah.

In that case, start by deciding what you actually want the show to be. One of its fundamental problems is that it tries to be too many things at once and ends up being nothing.

My advice would be to make the "animu Witcher" concept that the first trailer seemed to advertise the center, and reimagine everything to fit around that.
 
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Define "realistic". Considering the magnitude of difference between our world and Remnant, there's no real reference point to use to make it more "realistic". You could justify any number of societal structures or cultures equally well so long as you address the basics.
 
Uh... I don't get how you can keep the premise and realism. Like, aura and grimm and all of that is completely unrealistic. The foundation of the show is basically an excuse for bouncy rule of cool combat scenes. What about that is realistic? How does making it more realistic do that better?

"there SHOULD be dozens if not hundreds of inter-connected city states ruled by a governing body that helped with the facilitation and education of hunters"? Why? Why is that the realistic construct? How does this mesh with the premise, which largely exists to justify small groups dramatically fighting stuff?
 
Uh... I don't get how you can keep the premise and realism. Like, aura and grimm and all of that is completely unrealistic. The foundation of the show is basically an excuse for bouncy rule of cool combat scenes. What about that is realistic? How does making it more realistic do that better?

"there SHOULD be dozens if not hundreds of inter-connected city states ruled by a governing body that helped with the facilitation and education of hunters"? Why? Why is that the realistic construct? How does this mesh with the premise, which largely exists to justify small groups dramatically fighting stuff?

You just basically explained the reasoning. The ONLY reason why Beacon Academy can justify its small number of students, along with training methods yet tech is to have a large number of city states which rise and fall based on the Grimm menance. The Grimm should still be something that keeps playing in the background killing hundreds of people daily along with destroying towns on a regular basis but not to the extent that what we see in the show shouldn't work.
 
The ONLY reason why Beacon Academy can justify its small number of students,
Only a small minority of people have the right combination of talent and training to become a potential Huntsman. There. Done. That's one alternate justification for the relatively small number of students, with relatively small meaning hundreds per Academy.

Take RWBY for example. It'd be a world where there SHOULD be dozens if not hundreds of inter-connected city states ruled by a governing body that helped with the facilitation and education of hunters.
Should there? And were exactly would they build these cities without getting overwhelmed by the Grimm? Bigger cities means more negativity means more Grimm. Also you're assuming that there's enough easily available Dust in safe mining locations to sustain that many massive cities. The real world doesn't need to worry about Cthullu attacking oil platforms but on Remnant resource extraction is a lot more dangerous.


The world of remnant should have 14 - 28 Billion people with a thousandth of that many hunters. Even if you divided it by a hundred, and that's a big if for functioning industrial global society, there should be nearly 140,000 Hunters running around.
:facepalm:

This is just plain retarded. The real world has only recently gotten a population half the size of your minimum estimate and it is not constantly under siege from endless hordes of monsters that attack farms, trade routes, railroads, port cities and all the million other things that has let humanity expand to the extent it has.

From which rectum is Remnant's humanity supposed to pull these numbers from? :jackiechan:


Edit:
After reflecting on these posts by the OP I have come to the conclusion that this thread should have its title changed to "What if RWBY was UNrealistic" because fuck if RWBY runs on literal magic crystals and soul based force-fields its still a thousand times more realistic than the nonsense being suggested in this thread.
 
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How would you make the fauni issue more realistically presented?
Change the situation to something closer to what we see in real life. We know that the Faunus were recently treated poorly. At best they were not paid very well, at worst they were slave labor. We also know that they recently fought a war, successfully, to get equal rights. Furthermore we know that businesses refused to serve them due to Blake's explanation of how the White Fang turned violent to Sun. From that we can assume that the Faunus as a whole generally don't have a lot of material wealth. That means the Faunus are going to be working lower skill, lower paying jobs. They won't be the only people in those jobs but they will be the most common people holding them. Conversely they'll be less common among higher paying jobs that require more education.

From there we have plenty of options for racial tensions. Does Cardin try bullying Velvet because he's a jerk or does he do it because someone he knows can't get a job that "pays enough" (however he defines "enough") because the Faunus will work for less just to have a job?

Next consider that Hunting is apparently a high risk career that is critical to the survival of society. I'd be surprised if it wasn't a higher-than-average paying job. Hell, I'd be surprised if it wasn't just outright a high paying job. Between that and how Hunters should be viewed by Remnant society and you'll have a viable way for Faunus to move up the social and economic ladders.

End result is that there should be a lot more Faunus trying to become Hunters than we see in RWBY. That should also have consequences that the writers in this hypothetical scenario should consider. If there are more Faunus trying to become Hunters are they welcomed with open arms? Are they viewed with distrust? Are they actively blocked due to racism? How do the Hunters themselves view the Human / Faunus problem?


Note I'm taking bits and pieces of America's issue with race relations to build this "what if." It seems to fit based on what we see and the culture of the creative staff of RT. I know there are plenty of other examples around the world. If you have another suggestion please share!
 
Change the situation to something closer to what we see in real life. We know that the Faunus were recently treated poorly. At best they were not paid very well, at worst they were slave labor. We also know that they recently fought a war, successfully, to get equal rights. Furthermore we know that businesses refused to serve them due to Blake's explanation of how the White Fang turned violent to Sun. From that we can assume that the Faunus as a whole generally don't have a lot of material wealth. That means the Faunus are going to be working lower skill, lower paying jobs. They won't be the only people in those jobs but they will be the most common people holding them. Conversely they'll be less common among higher paying jobs that require more education.

From there we have plenty of options for racial tensions. Does Cardin try bullying Velvet because he's a jerk or does he do it because someone he knows can't get a job that "pays enough" (however he defines "enough") because the Faunus will work for less just to have a job?

Next consider that Hunting is apparently a high risk career that is critical to the survival of society. I'd be surprised if it wasn't a higher-than-average paying job. Hell, I'd be surprised if it wasn't just outright a high paying job. Between that and how Hunters should be viewed by Remnant society and you'll have a viable way for Faunus to move up the social and economic ladders.

End result is that there should be a lot more Faunus trying to become Hunters than we see in RWBY. That should also have consequences that the writers in this hypothetical scenario should consider. If there are more Faunus trying to become Hunters are they welcomed with open arms? Are they viewed with distrust? Are they actively blocked due to racism? How do the Hunters themselves view the Human / Faunus problem?


Note I'm taking bits and pieces of America's issue with race relations to build this "what if." It seems to fit based on what we see and the culture of the creative staff of RT. I know there are plenty of other examples around the world. If you have another suggestion please share!
This stuff is already canon though. The Schnee Dust Company uses almost only Faunus labor who are paid shit-all, have terrible work conditions and getting into a prep school in Atlas apparently required Faunus to hide what they are.


From what we've seen of Qrow in Volume 5 he apparently has plenty of cash to throw around.

Lots of Faunus do become Huntsmen but its not like anyone can become a Huntsman just by wanting it. It requires a very high degree of talent, training and possibly also just innate Aura potential (ie some people just have more of it than others).
 
This stuff is already canon though. The Schnee Dust Company uses almost only Faunus labor who are paid shit-all, have terrible work conditions and getting into a prep school in Atlas apparently required Faunus to hide what they are.


From what we've seen of Qrow in Volume 5 he apparently has plenty of cash to throw around.

Lots of Faunus do become Huntsmen but its not like anyone can become a Huntsman just by wanting it. It requires a very high degree of talent, training and possibly also just innate Aura potential (ie some people just have more of it than others).
Really? So where's the discussion that Faunus are collectively less wealthy than the Humans in the first, say, three Volumes? Where's the discussion of what a Hunter gets paid anywhere in the series? Qrow having "cash to throw around" could come from an inheritance. It could come from him just not spending much and being frugal (outside of alcohol.) It could come from him taking abnormally high paying jobs as a Hunter. It could come from being a Hunter while being paid by Ozpin at the same time.

Do any of those suggestions to Qrow's apparent wealth make sense? Yes. But none of them are shown in the series and, unless I missed something, none of them are proved false in the series.

You say that "Lots of Faunus become Huntsmen" but, again, where is that shown in the first three Volumes? Where's the discussion about why they are Hunters? Where's the discussion about how many Faunus want to be Hunters but, as you point out, lack the talent?
 
On an appearance level, I'd make the Faunus more animal like. They look less like petting zoo people and actual human-animal hybrids. This will sell us more on the discrimination while also giving us cool Faunus design.

This stuff is already canon though. The Schnee Dust Company uses almost only Faunus labor who are paid shit-all, have terrible work conditions and getting into a prep school in Atlas apparently required Faunus to hide what they are.

The problem with Faunus racism has been pretty clear from the get go: we're told it, but we're not shown it.

It's the same issue Korra had with season 1's bender vs non-benders. We're told non-benders are screwed over but we don't see it, any sort of discrimination falls flat on its face.

It reminds me of mathewmitosis' critique on BioShock Infinite with black people. Black people in Binfinite are pretty much slaves in this pro-white city in the sky but not a single white person utters the N-word nor do we really see much oppression other than they're all poor laborers making any sort of theme of racism pretty non-existent. (also the timetravel thing kinda overshadows black people are enslaved thing)
 
The problem with Faunus racism has been pretty clear from the get go: we're told it, but we're not shown it.

It's the same issue Korra had with season 1's bender vs non-benders. We're told non-benders are screwed over but we don't see it, any sort of discrimination falls flat on its face.

It reminds me of mathewmitosis' critique on BioShock Infinite with black people. Black people in Binfinite are pretty much slaves in this pro-white city in the sky but not a single white person utters the N-word nor do we really see much oppression other than they're all poor laborers making any sort of theme of racism pretty non-existent. (also the timetravel thing kinda overshadows black people are enslaved thing)

That. In my opinion, if themes of racism are to be represented in a work of fiction, they must come together with actual instances of racism on-screen. I do not deny that RWBY does portray it in some cases, but if I were to work on that myself, I would have actively established and shown acts of racism as something that exists within society as a whole. Show ghettos, show discrimination and stereotyping fauni have to face in their lives, show actual oppression, show that the atmosphere in which such a terrorist group like White Fang can actually exist. And if your balls are hard enough, show how even heroes can be racist about some things without realizing that to show how deep it can actually go in a society.
 
There's also the fact that RT themselves make racist jokes about their petting zoo people with Yang's laser trick. It's supposed to be haha, catpeople amirite but if you were to replace Blake with a black person does that mean Yang would use a bucket of KFC to lure her instead?

It's the worst kind of lazy writing: thoughtless writing.
 
Really? So where's the discussion that Faunus are collectively less wealthy than the Humans in the first, say, three Volumes? Where's the discussion of what a Hunter gets paid anywhere in the series? Qrow having "cash to throw around" could come from an inheritance. It could come from him just not spending much and being frugal (outside of alcohol.) It could come from him taking abnormally high paying jobs as a Hunter. It could come from being a Hunter while being paid by Ozpin at the same time.

Do any of those suggestions to Qrow's apparent wealth make sense? Yes. But none of them are shown in the series and, unless I missed something, none of them are proved false in the series.

You say that "Lots of Faunus become Huntsmen" but, again, where is that shown in the first three Volumes? Where's the discussion about why they are Hunters? Where's the discussion about how many Faunus want to be Hunters but, as you point out, lack the talent?
Jacques talks about Faunus complaining about lack of pay in Volume 4 among other things. And Qrow was raised by a bloody bandit tribe, where the fuck would he get a inheritance from?

Pretty much every Huntsman or their family that we've seen who weren't dead or deadbeat look to be upper middle class at worst, with the sole exception of some of the people from Vacuo which is the poorest and shittiest of the Four Kingdoms. And economics are not the focus of the show so I don't see why you're so obsessed with it. Nobody is going to spend an entire episode talking about varying income levels because its a freaking fantasy series focused on fighting monsters, robots and kung fu wizards. The fact that it doesn't focus on the economics doesn't make it unrealistic.

By the fact that a ton of Huntsman students are Faunus. Again why would there be discussion on that? Blake is the only really major character who is both a Faunus and a Huntsman student and as a former White Fang member and the daughter of its leader her reason for joining was about progressing the cause of Faunus equality as a whole rather than getting more cash for herself. Again a show not focusing on what you want it to focus on is not the same as it being unrealistic. Or should we start complaining about shows being unrealistic because there's never any discussion about sanitation and sewage? Why do we never see anyone going to the toilet in most shows? Totally unrealistic.


The problem with Faunus racism has been pretty clear from the get go: we're told it, but we're not shown it.

It's the same issue Korra had with season 1's bender vs non-benders. We're told non-benders are screwed over but we don't see it, any sort of discrimination falls flat on its face.

It reminds me of mathewmitosis' critique on BioShock Infinite with black people. Black people in Binfinite are pretty much slaves in this pro-white city in the sky but not a single white person utters the N-word nor do we really see much oppression other than they're all poor laborers making any sort of theme of racism pretty non-existent. (also the timetravel thing kinda overshadows black people are enslaved thing)
We weren't shown a lot of things in early volumes, primarily because of the extremely limited screen-time that comes part and parcel with having a limited budget and a small animation team. There has been much more focus on what kind of things the Faunus have suffered from in Volume 4 and Volume 5 and will likely get more of a spotlight going forward. Especially since they're going to Atlas now which seems to be the worst Kingdom and since Adam has been kicked out of the White Fang which will likely mean that Blake's struggles for equality will now shift more towards dealing with the racism that caused the White Fang to rise in the first place.
 
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We weren't shown a lot of things in early volumes, primarily because of the extremely limited screen-time that comes part and parcel with having a limited budget and a small animation team.

Irrelevant. RoosterTeeth could have done an entire episode showing the lives of oppressed Faunus people but they didn't. They could have made the likable characters make racist remarks but they didn't. They could have shown the White Fang as people with actual problems instead of animal ISIS people. But no, they spent all their time on stupid anime high school tropes.

The blame is on RoosterTeeth for not doing that in the very beginning. The defense of "small budget, small team" is frankly irrelevant. If they can animate fight scenes then they can animate Faunus folk being oppressed.
 
We weren't shown a lot of things in early volumes, primarily because of the extremely limited screen-time that comes part and parcel with having a limited budget and a small animation team. There has been much more focus on what kind of things the Faunus have suffered from in Volume 4 and Volume 5 and will likely get more of a spotlight going forward. Especially since they're going to Atlas now which seems to be the worst Kingdom and since Adam has been kicked out of the White Fang which will likely mean that Blake's struggles for equality will now shift more towards dealing with the racism that caused the White Fang to rise in the first place.
A "No Faunus Allowed" sign. On a building. That's the barest minimum it takes to establish there exists racism on a scale that could possibly justify not only a minority rights group, but a minority rights group that was turned into a terrorist group. Also, if you don't have the budget or knowledge to address this issue, don't try to put on these big boy pants.
 
Jacques talks about Faunus complaining about lack of pain in Volume 4 among other things. And Qrow was raised by a bloody bandit tribe, where the fuck would he get a inheritance from?

Pretty much every Huntsman or their family that we've seen who weren't dead or deadbeat look to be upper middle class at worst, with the sole exception of some of the people from Vacuo which is the poorest and shittiest of the Four Kingdoms. And economics are not the focus of the show so I don't see why you're so obsessed with it. Nobody is going to spend an entire episode talking about varying income levels because its a freaking fantasy series focused on fighting monsters, robots and kung fu wizards. The fact that it doesn't focus on the economics doesn't make it unrealistic.

By the fact that a ton of Huntsman students are Faunus. Again why would there be discussion on that? Blake is the only really major character who is both a Faunus and a Huntsman student and as a former White Fang member and the daughter of its leader her reason for joining was about progressing the cause of Faunus equality as a whole rather than getting more cash for herself. Again a show not focusing on what you want it to focus on is not the same as it being unrealistic. Or should we start complaining about shows being unrealistic because there's never any discussion about sanitation and sewage? Why do we never see anyone going to the toilet in most shows? Totally unrealistic.



We weren't shown a lot of things in early volumes, primarily because of the extremely limited screen-time that comes part and parcel with having a limited budget and a small animation team. There has been much more focus on what kind of things the Faunus have suffered from in Volume 4 and Volume 5 and will likely get more of a spotlight going forward. Especially since they're going to Atlas now which seems to be the worst Kingdom and since Adam has been kicked out of the White Fang which will likely mean that Blake's struggles for equality will now shift more towards dealing with the racism that caused the White Fang to rise in the first place.
Mook, your defense is to list things that are shown or discussed four years into the real world release of the media.

Furthermore we are talking about "how would you show racism." The conflict with the White Fang has been important to the series since the first Volume. (Or before that with the Black trailer, depending on your point of view.) These are things that should have been included from the beginning. Things like, as Tada suggested, having a "No Faunus Allowed" sign on a business as the cast walks around Vale.

On the economics thing, who said it would be the focus? When did I ever say "hey, let's drop everything and move the show to talking about the economics of racism" ? These are things that can and should be included in the world building. Something for the people working on the show to keep in mind so they can tell a consistent narrative. So, just for example, when the cast are walking around Vale there should be crowds. (Or at least other people in the background.) In the wealthier portions of Vale the crowds should be mostly Human. In the poorer sections of town, like the docks, there should be more Faunus.

And if you want to use the argument that RT didn't have the funds for large crowds we know they had funds to create the grey background silhouettes that we see in the beginning of Volume 1. All it would take would be adding ears (something which can be interpreted as dog- or cat- or fox- ears) or a generic tail to a few of those silhouettes.

On the Faunus drive to be Hunters, how hard would it be to have a side conversation early about why people are Hunters? (Or at least how they made their way to Beacon.) Picture this - assume there are more Faunus shown in Volume 1 than just Blake and Velvet. Furthermore let's assume that Team RWBY gets into a conversation with a Faunus from another Team. Yang is proud that her sister got into Beacon early, Ruby is embarrassed, and so on. The discussion of which school people attended before Beacon comes up because Yang and Ruby don't recognize the new Faunus character I'm proposing. Cue them explaining that they went to high school in the poorer part of town. Not a Hunter prep school like Signal, a regular high school. From there Weiss, Ruby and Yang can be surprised - but Blake points out she didn't go to a Hunter prep school either. She was raised outside the Kingdoms where "If you can't fight you don't survive." Then Ruby asks why they wanted to become Hunters and, wait for it, the new Faunus replies that they wants to help provide for their family. They has enough aura to have a shot at being a Hunter! Just one job would pay more than their parents make in a month!

For bonus points they could be wearing a much simpler outfit than Team RWBY. Just a shirt and jeans with some combat boots. For a weapon they'd have something that Ruby would consider very basic. No transforming parts, no fancy built in gun. Just a melee weapon or a single gun. Nothing too excessive but something to show the economic inequalities. A way to show not tell that this is someone who doesn't have a lot of money to spend. And in a perfect world it would be subtle enough that the people watching it wouldn't immediately notice it. (Meaning no obvious stains, tears, or holes.)

If RT's budget is a concern again there are two options. The first is to have this new Faunus be a background character they use to help fill in the "blank spaces" in some scenes. They can be sitting in Dr. Oobleck's history class, cheering on Weiss in Portman's class, studying in the library while Team RWBY is playing their board game (hey, maybe that Faunus is the one who yells "Thank you!" when the board game playing is mentioned as distracting others.) The second option is to have the Faunus be Velvet. They had already built the model for her early in the series. All you'd need to do would be to give her some generic civilian clothes though I would recommend removing the bit about the very basic weapon.
 
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