The rest of the world building around that is pretty shit though, because there are a bunch of nonsense changes and things that should have changed due to the other divergences but didn't, so it's not really better outside of using the core change in the story better.

Odds are pretty good someone on the art team thought Conquistadors had a better look than English settlers would, more distinctive look and such, which is the same kind of decision making as went into a lot of Code Geass's world building and narrative structure.

Sure, but good or bad, it's consistent. It's stable.

Disney, on the other hand, will just constantly throw shit out with no consideration and no connection to anything else, is the issue. So the only thing Disney does consistently is be mediocre at best.
 
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Disney, on the other hand, will just constantly throw shit out with no consideration and no connection to anything else, is the issue. So the only thing Disney does consistently is be mediocre at best.
The executives demand that a product be made, the ones tasked with making it don't get a say beyond trying to make it work, and if they complain they can be replaced to appease the demands, even if it results in worse products that make less money and cost more due to all that bullshit. It's part of why a lot of writers and actors went on strike last year.
 
Odds are pretty good someone on the art team thought Conquistadors had a better look than English settlers would, more distinctive look and such

My bet is its actually because there's a pretty famous example of a Conquistador wandering around North America looking for the fountain of youth, so they decided to go with "that, but several hundred miles further north"
 
It also could be that they thought that their mostly-American audience might be offended by seeing English settlers (who they still think of as the progenitors of their own nation) as the villains. Using conquistadors lets them foist the sins of American colonialism off on someone else. That would be the kind of milquestoast politics that I would expect from the company that made Pocahontas. The fact that they were willing to tell a story from the perspective of Native Americans heroically resisting European colonialism at all is honestly pretty daring by Disney's standards.

A better question than "why the Spanish and not the English?" might be "why the Mohawk and not people from areas the Spanish colonized?" It might just be that Mohawk cultural experts were available, while cultures from further south weren't.
 
It also could be that they thought that their mostly-American audience might be offended by seeing English settlers (who they still think of as the progenitors of their own nation) as the villains. Using conquistadors lets them foist the sins of American colonialism off on someone else. That would be the kind of milquestoast politics that I would expect from the company that made Pocahontas. The fact that they were willing to tell a story from the perspective of Native Americans heroically resisting European colonialism at all is honestly pretty daring by Disney's standards.

A better question than "why the Spanish and not the English?" might be "why the Mohawk and not people from areas the Spanish colonized?" It might just be that Mohawk cultural experts were available, while cultures from further south weren't.

Optimistically, they want to draw on the politici-cultural legacy of the Haudenosaunee in future showings of Kahhori.

Also known as the, one of the writers read Dawn of Everything hypothesis :V

Of course they could have done much the same thing using a republican Mayan city-state as the setting.
 
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A better question than "why the Spanish and not the English?" might be "why the Mohawk and not people from areas the Spanish colonized?" It might just be that Mohawk cultural experts were available, while cultures from further south weren't.

The below article mentioned the writers wanted to do a story centered on a Mohawk Nation protagonist because they were both from an area that was once controlled by the Haudenosaunee. This seems like a classic case of personal interests overriding solid world-building. It would take massive changes to have the Spanish be the first Europeans to encounter the Haudenosaunee especially if this is all taking place before the Spanish had firmly established their empire in South America and the Caribbean at the expense of the native people. The inspiring ending of Kahhori preemptively stopping Spanish colonialism would be severely undermined if the story takes place after the Spanish have already committed their most grievous evils.
in.ign.com

Marvel's What If...? Head Writer Breaks Down Every Episode of Season 2

An exclusive sitdown with one of the key minds behind What If...? Season 2.

I appreciate this choice of origin for Kahhori as the Haudenosaunee had a fascinating civilization that doesn't get nearly enough attention in popular culture or fiction. It would be great to see Marvel pursue a story centered on them fighting off colonialism (either human or supernatural) and becoming the dominant power of North America.
 
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They heard about from other natives they interacted with.

Also there's nothing to say that in this universe, Columbus didn't just land further north, pushing the locus of the Spanish empire into North america
I guess don't really solve my issue with the ending though
A better question than "why the Spanish and not the English?" might be "why the Mohawk and not people from areas the Spanish colonized?" It might just be that Mohawk cultural experts were available, while cultures from further south weren't.
I'm going to be real with you. That is ridiculous.
Because 1. I am from one of said areas and they very much exist
2. Unless it's in its own branch marvel studios is in one of said areas also
 
Oh no it had nothing to do with strange.

Was make "peace" with us or we'll kill you
It was supposed to, that's why they had Strange call her out on it.

Realistically? Kahhori's superpowered ultimatum would have driven the rest of the world to focus on the Supernatural. And unlike in real life, there's actually things to find there. So say hello to the new Super Power arms race Kahhori just kicked off.

Mind, there's also the unanswered question of why the Sorcerer's just left the broken Tesseract at the bottom of that lake given securing that sort of thing is a big part of their jobs.
 
We got a few images from season 3


View: https://twitter.com/MarvelStudios/status/1749507254657724578

From all of us at Marvel Studios, THANK YOU for watching season 2 of #WhatIf and joining us on this journey across time…space…reality. We're excited to share this early look at some of the endless possibilities we'll explore together in season 3 of What If…?


I guess all the 2 Red Guardian ones are from the 80's Avengers follow-up, No idea what could be the reason for the Mecha, though we are getting post 2018 characters. I heard the suggestion these were made by Tony Stark to fight Sutur, which I can believe.
 
www.theverge.com

Marvel’s What If…? series to end with third season

Disney Plus’ What If...? is coming to an end with season 3.
Though What If…? season 3 doesn't have a premiere date, Entertainment Weekly reports that it will be the final installment in the series that gave us Jeffrey Wright's Uatu the Watcher and Hayley Atwell as Captain Peggy Carter. Speaking on this week's episode of Marvel's new official podcast, What If…? executive producer Brad Winderbaum described the upcoming season as the "completion of a trilogy" and teased that it will go "beyond the first two seasons in its exploration of the multiverse."
 
Also, I finally watched season 2 after almost a year. I was at first waiting for all episodes to be out, but then I kinda forgot. Overall I liked it a lot! The last episodes of season 1 I didn't like very much because I wanted the show to keep being an anthology instead of making an unified story, but at least this time the finale felt a lot more personal.

Some thoughts (unmarked spoilers ahead):

Episode 1 - The idea and setting were pretty cool, a Nova Nebula playing noir cop in a cyberpunkesque Xandar that shielded itself from the outside universe to avoid a war, only to stumble on a murder investigation turned conspiracy to reopen the shield. Unfortunately, the execution was really uneven, because we are given very little suspects for this supposed noir mystery, so it was more or less obvious what was going on. A shame, as I said, the premise is cool, it should have been allowed to cook longer. Howard was funny tho. 6/10

Episode 2 - Very fun and entertaining episode. Unlike season 1 which at times felt like it took from a very small pool of characters, here we get a new Avengers team in the 80s made up of supporting/side characters of the canon Avengers (aside from Thor), and it makes for a fun team composition, as was making Ego the Loki getting it started and Peggy and Howard Stark the Nick Furys. Peter Quill and Hope interacting as kids is something I would never think of, and they were pretty cute. Gorbachev sending the Winter Soldier instead of the Red Guardian is a bit weird (if it were me, RG would have been sent as the official help, but WS is secretly sent as well to take care of things behind the scenes if the team fails), but it worked for his emotional arc so I do not mind much. And that one is just for me, but I'm glad at the indirect reference to King Azzuri being real in the MCU (aside from an unused mention in the Wakanda Forever script). 9/10

Episode 3 - A funny Christmas episode, which apparently introduced the Freak, a thing from the comics that Happy Hogan transforms into that I was not aware of before looking it up. It's a delightful, low-stakes Die Hard parody, in a timeline barely different than the Sacred Timeline, so it served its role well. The atmosphere of the episode was very funny to me because it was extremely similar to the tone of MCU fics circa the first Avengers (and some up to Age of Ultron): where people interpreted the Avengers as much closer than they are in reality, like a found family, instead of the pretty much coworkers the movies usually go for (aside from Clint & Natasha and Tony & Bruce)*, so a lot of fics wrote them all living in the Avengers Tower and acting pretty much like the X-Men. This episode feels like that, not only with the Avengers doing small side trips for Christmas and organizing a party, but also the presence of Darcy Lewis, a Ao3 fanfic favorite, as Happy's intern. This made the episode even funnier. 8/10

Episode 4 - The episode that was supposed to have been in season 1 to introduce AU Gamora, but was moved to later because of COVID I believe. What I like about WI this season is how the point-of-divergence is usually very simple but make a lot of sense to spiral into a completely premise. Tony not entering the portal in time just makes a lot of sense when he was also a hair's breadth from missing it in canon. Anyway, another fun one, this time a Planet Iron Man story. The Grandmaster by himself makes the episode fun, but Tony too having to act as the straight man to a planet of weirdos for once makes the dialogue witty and snappy. The idea of a race instead of gladiatoral combat makes sense since the Romans themselves didn't just have gladiators in the Colosseum, but chariot races as well, so I could definitely see the Grandmaster having varied forms of entertainment instead of just fights to the death so he doesn't get bored (makes me wonder if like the Romans he also simulates naval battles, or maybe an upgraded version that simulates space battles...). Gamora is a bit of a letdown for a character this episode is supposed to build up tho. 7/10

Episode 5 - A follow-up to her cliffhanger last season, Captain Carter and the Winter Soldier was also good fun, any episode with Captain Carter are great. We see more of her friendship with Natasha, and they have great chemistry, I may even be so bold as to say it is greater than Steve and Natasha (tbf the circumstances meant he couldn't trust her, whereas here Iron Steve is not accompanied with a HYDRA conspiracy). And I would also not be surprised people ship them either, the chemistry is too good. But the heart of the episode is Peggy and Steve reuniting, and they are extremely cute and touching together. I usually find it funny that the MCU doesn't have enough fictional countries for stuff to happen in, so it usually resorts to Sokovia (Justin Hammer in the Christmas episode randomly saying "I should have gone for the Sokovian team" made me snort, like why is Sokovia implied to have expert mercenaries now lol) or Wakanda for even the most random things (and Madripoor as well now I guess), but an abandoned experimental city in Sokovia makes sense here since it was a Soviet experiment and Sokovia is a post-Soviet country. It was also great seeing Melina more villainous here than in Black Widow and thus making her fight her "daughter" a cool thematic dynamic (kinda sad Yelena wasn't there, but oh well). Peggy and Steven getting separated again was heartbreaking (it is interesting that their relationship here mixes Steve seeing Peggy as the one that got away and Bucky, his last remaining link to the past, also disappearing at the end of WS), but I have no fear that they will find each other again. 9/10

Episode 6 - The second MCU foray into having a Native American protag in a Native American context and setting (or well, first, but I watched Echo before it), when I heard about the episode's concept last year, I was wondering how it was going to be an AU when it seemed to mostly be its own self-contained thing. So I didn't expect the Lake Space Stone as a result of an early Ragnarök, but that was well-thought. The story is fairly simple, but it's not a bad thing. The Sky World is just cool and pretty to look at, which makes Kahhori's motivation being "this may be paradise, but it isn't one for me if my brother is dead/not with me" much stronger when she could really have just stayed there and given up. Ahtaraks is really funny, and I like the dynamic with Kahhori, even if they only imply they may view each other romantically. The Spanish conquistadors are fun antagonists, even if their presence this far north is puzzling: I concluded they just didn't want to portray English colonists badly and conquistadors are easy targets, but on the other hand, there are ways to justify it, like these Pre-Columbian transoceanic contact theories:
Wikipedia said:
Some have conjectured that Columbus was able to persuade the Catholic Monarchs of Castile and Aragon to support his planned voyage only because they were aware of some recent earlier voyage across the Atlantic. Some suggest that Columbus himself visited Canada or Greenland before 1492, because according to Bartolomé de las Casas he wrote he had sailed 100 leagues past an island he called Thule in 1477. Whether Columbus actually did this and what island he visited, if any, is uncertain. Columbus is thought to have visited Bristol in 1476.[140] Bristol was also the port from which John Cabot sailed in 1497, crewed mostly by Bristol sailors. In a letter of late 1497 or early 1498, the English merchant John Day wrote to Columbus about Cabot's discoveries, saying that land found by Cabot was "discovered in the past by the men from Bristol who found 'Brasil' as your lordship knows".[141] There may be records of expeditions from Bristol to find the "isle of Brazil" in 1480 and 1481.[142] Trade between Bristol and Iceland is well documented from the mid-15th century.

Gonzalo Fernández de Oviedo y Valdés records several such legends in his Historia general de las Indias of 1526, which includes biographical information on Columbus. He discusses the then-current story of a Spanish caravel that was swept off its course while on its way to England, and wound up in a foreign land populated by naked tribesmen. The crew gathered supplies and made its way back to Europe, but the trip took several months and the captain and most of the men died before reaching land. The caravel's ship pilot, a man called Alonso Sánchez, and a few others made it to Portugal, but all were very ill. Columbus was a good friend of the pilot, and took him to be treated in his own house, and the pilot described the land they had seen and marked it on a map before dying. People in Oviedo's time knew this story in several versions, though Oviedo himself regarded it as a myth.[143]

In 1925, Soren Larsen wrote a book claiming that a joint Danish-Portuguese expedition landed in Newfoundland or Labrador in 1473 and again in 1476. Larsen claimed that Didrik Pining and Hans Pothorst served as captains, while João Vaz Corte-Real and the possibly mythical John Scolvus served as navigators, accompanied by Álvaro Martins.[144] Nothing beyond circumstantial evidence has been found to support Larsen's claims.[145]

The historical record shows that Basque fishermen were present in Newfoundland and Labrador from at least 1517 onward (therefore predating all recorded European settlements in the region except those of the Norse). The Basques' fishing expeditions led to significant trade and cultural exchanges with Native Americans. A fringe theory suggests that Basque sailors first arrived in North America prior to Columbus' voyages to the New World (some sources suggest the late 14th century as a tentative date) but kept the destination a secret in order to avoid competition over the fishing resources of the North American coasts. There is no historical or archaeological evidence to support this claim.
There are plenty of ways to justify or handwave it away. I can see the natives, thanks to the extensive trade network of Precolumbian America and word-of-mouth, hearing of the war the Haudenosaunee waged over the magical lake and when they relay the information to the Spanish, Bimini doesn't likely mean the Mayan lands confused for the Bahamas, but clearly a real place further north. In any case, the Spanish makes for great villains, and the commander was pretty good as an antagonist, he did not hesitate at all to find a way to deal with a superhuman girl by switching tactics, and even when he gets trampled he tries one last time to take her down. And villainess Isabella of Castile was hilariously hammy (where was King Ferdinand?). And it's just nice to see Native Americans able to beat off colonialism in a similar way Wakanda did. Kinda disappointed it wasn't used as the origin point for the 1602 episode, but for a brand new character and origin story, it was well done. 7/10

Episode 7 - This one is extremely memorable for having the absolutely cracked ship of Hela and Wenwu, and it somehow works really well. Wenwu's type really is "woman who can beat my ass and could kill me". Making Hela a protagonist was also hella (ha!) interesting, because while she is formidable in Ragnarök, she is mostly just a smug bloodthirsty tyrant there, and what she represented (Asgardian imperialism) was far more interesting than the character itself to me, if that makes sense. But stripped of her powers and humbled down to literal earth, it is fun to see other aspects of her personality, from her dry humor to her aimless sense of purpose being solely defined by war. She also just plain funny. And I'm always up for seeing hypocritical Odin getting his just dessert. Also, glad to get explicit confirmation that Frigga really is her stepmom (Thor calls her half-sister in IW, true, but I never understood where he learned that information). 8/10

Episode 8 - The adaptation of Marvel 1602. Less of an alternate timeline and more a strange temporal singularity (a prelude to what will happen in Secret Wars?), another episode made good from the start by featuring Captain Carter, and her being able to see and hear Uatu made it stand out. And once again her and Steve being sickeningly cute in every universe is my drug. Everyone affecting weird Shakespearian behavior was fun, like Loki explaining Iago is the true protagonist of Othello, or Hulk in the final battle hilariously punctuating his screams with "thee" and "thy". Although there were some missing characters unfortunately, but you can chalk that up to people being taken by the rifts. Speaking of, shoutout to 1602 Wanda, who was a real MVP holding back a rift all on her own during a chaotic battle and managing to help the heroes too at the last moment while she was at it. And unlike the first episode, I liked that this one felt like a proper mystery, I legit didn't know who would be the Forerunner because I assumed Peggy was already filling the role Steve Rogers had in the original comic, so my guess was either Thor or Dr. Strange. The reveal of the POD is once again a POD that makes a lot of sense. And man, the bitter note of the separation really hit. 8/10

Episode 9 - A much better finale than the first season's I think since it wasn't so over-the-top, but while the setup of the reveal was done well, I am annoyed that Strange Supreme regressed in his character to be the final villain, especially when we saw the warm friendship between him and Peggy. Nothing much to say, since the episode was mainly two chases and then a big brawl (kinda funny to see our two heroines get lots of hig level equipments to fight the final boss like they are RPG protagonists). Seeing Kahhori outside of her original context gave more layers to her and it's cool to see how much she grew into her power. Was an appropriate and touching ending for Strange after all he went through. And nice to see Loki's multiverse tree at the end, answering some but not all questions about how the show exists and Uatu's existence, which I assume they will get into in season 3. 7/10
 
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