What age is it acceptable for Vampires to date?

... Never mind.

Also, y'know, most "hot" vampires aren't even remotely close to your definition of evil by that particular definition of it, so it still feels not quite right.
It depends on the hot vampire, and the nature of vampirism. Spike from Buffy was animated pretty much entirely by spite and sadism and showboating. He loved Drusilla, sure, but a huge part of their deal was him hurting her, and her loving being hurt because of how badly Angelus fucked her up before turning her into a demon was just a side-benefit. He'dve hurt her regardless of what she wanted, if she'd stayed near him so long as a focus of obsession.

He was a creature that can only ever cause pain, even should some good intent find its way into their actions, and even with good intentions they will still enjoy suffering and pain. From his very bones, he was built to inflict suffering and enjoy it, even with the closest he came to having positive intentions. He loved Buffy, but the expression of that love was still perverse, because he was a monster. He wanted to possess her, and that his form of obsessive love involved her being happy was a pleasant side-effect. He was sympathetic, sure, he was better than pretty much all other vampires, in that he could have good intentions, sure.

He was still evil, and this was expressed in everything he ever did.
 
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It depends on the hot vampire, and the nature of vampirism. Spike from Buffy was animated pretty much entirely by spite and sadism and showboating. He loved Drusilla, sure, but a huge part of their deal was him hurting her, and her loving being hurt because of how badly Angelus fucked her up before turning her into a demon was just a side-benefit. He'dve hurt her regardless of what she wanted, if she'd stayed near him so long as a focus of obsession.

He was a creature that can only ever cause pain, even should some good intent find its way into their actions, and even with good intentions they will still enjoy suffering and pain. From his very bones, he was built to inflict suffering and enjoy it, even with the closest he came to having positive intentions. He loved Buffy, but the expression of that love was still perverse, because he was a monster. He wanted to possess her, and that his form of obsessive love involved her being happy was a pleasant side-effect. He was sympathetic, sure, he was better than pretty much all other vampires, in that he could have good intentions, sure.

He was still evil, and this was expressed in everything he ever did.

Somehow, I don't think Spike is as bad as Trump.
 
Somehow, I don't think Spike is as bad as Trump.
And somehow, I think you're heavily inflating the "evil" of an elderly idiot. Trump is utterly mundane. There is nothing special about his brand of regressive idiotic narcissism. He just got thrown into power by other regressive idiots. Trump doesn't torture women to death, for fun, with railroad spikes. He doesn't seek out strong young women and murder them with his bare hands, and then drink their blood, to prove his manliness. He doesn't murder school children for shits and giggles.

He's an elderly narcissistic racist exacerbating serious systemic issues and enabling the racist agendas of others. This results in a lot of harm being done. People are selfish idiots who hurt others, news at fucking eleven.
 
Best spinoff idea ever:

*Holding a wooden stake*

'Hi, I'm Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC. Why don't you have a seat right there?'
Said it before, will say it again, as fond I am of the manga Dance in the Vampire Bund, Mina and Akira hit the problems of this question coming and going when you think on it overmuch (Grown @$$ed woman making eyes at a 17 year old high school senior? Red Flag. Said woman making eyes at 17 year old son of long time personal servant/employee? Air Raid Sirens.).

This. I mean, even ignoring the whole "thousand year old bloodsucking predator of the night" thing, they're also fucking white aristocrats. Who the FUCK would ever, in their right mind, date the most inferior of white people?
Theo Bell would like a few words with you.
 
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Somehow, the question of "what age is it acceptable for vampires to date" has led to a discussion about whether or not Donald Trump is evil.

I guess the question of whether or not he's a vampire has already been addressed. :p

Being serious now, I think the primary factor in this dialogue has less to do with the amount of centuries on the vampiric clock and more the mental age and absorbed experience of the night-dweller in question. Are they actually a deific fixture of time that was old when Man was young? Are they merely centuries old, but capped around the last human threshold of mental development before going into something less understandable? Did they get frozen into whatever frame of mind they were in, when they were turned, and can only experience events through that lens?

And, of course, what age do they present as, and to whom are they presenting to? A fifty-year old appearing vampire striking up a relationship with a consenting young woman is, in a way, more honest than a younger-looking one purely for the visual gauge an uninitiated party can make of where on life's path this individual lies. Of course, there's debate to be had about relationships like that even before adding blood-sucking predation into the mix.

The thrust of this conversation is actually explored in my favorite piece of vampire and romantic-horror fiction, and the train of thought goes pretty much the way of every person's opinion here simultaneously.

In "Let the Right One In," a novel adapted into a Swedish and American film each, vampiric element of the book, a (castrated boy named Elias) "girl named Eli" is a twelve-year old vampire who has lived for somewhere around two centuries. His assistant, a pedophile named Hakan, helps Eli by murdering people to obtain their blood as a means of having a "safe" way to sate his pedophilac urges since he can rationalize Eli as being much older than him and thus it is not wrong to desire someone who looks like a child. This notion is challenged by Eli's rise into a lesser form of depression (even happiness) upon encountering another child, at which point Eli begins to act like a child and is generally much more energized and dopey rather than depressed and hollow.

The pedophile eventually dies, by the way, and comes back as a monster trying to prey on Eli before being beaten into a twitching goo-pulp by a third party.

The protagonist, friend, and eventual life-partner to Eli is a thirteen-year old boy named Oskar. Oskar meets Eli as two kids and assumes he is the age presented for much of the book, even after the revelation of Eli being a vampire - but the thought haunts him. Is Eli actually an old man inside, laughing at him, looking to create a new helper after her old one dies?

Even Eli(as) doesn't really know, judging by the perspective chapter we get on his part. But when the reveal happens, Elias is adamant: "I'm twelve, but I've been twelve for a very long time." When under stress and isolated, Eli acts somewhat more mature, is coldly practical, and clearly more intelligent than any child could be with a mere twelve years of experience. But outside of those periods (and even within them, sometimes), Eli acts like a kid and engages emotionally with his surroundings as a child would. Oskar makes an observation that maybe the reason he can notice things that Eli (who can solve a Rubik's Cube in about six hours) can't is because Eli is "younger" than him and thus less developed.

All of this informs my perspective on the question of the thread, which is: "What age is the vampire presenting as, what age are they in reality (mentally), and where on the human age line is their potential partner?" From there I think it can be pretty easily puzzled out in most cases where squick and immorality arrive and romantic partnership departs.
 
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Somehow, the question of "what age is it acceptable for vampires to date" has led to a discussion about whether or not Donald Trump is evil.

I guess the question of whether or not he's a vampire has already been addressed. :p

Being serious now, I think the primary factor in this dialogue has less to do with the amount of centuries on the vampiric clock and more the mental age and absorbed experience of the night-dweller in question. Are they actually a deific fixture of time that was old when Man was young? Are they merely centuries old, but capped around the last human threshold of mental development before going into something less understandable? Did they get frozen into whatever frame of mind they were in, when they were turned, and can only experience events through that lens?

And, of course, what age do they present as, and to whom are they presenting to? A fifty-year old appearing vampire striking up a relationship with a consenting young woman is, in a way, more honest than a younger-looking one purely for the visual gauge an uninitiated party can make of where on life's path this individual lies. Of course, there's debate to be had about relationships like that even before adding blood-sucking predation into the mix.

The thrust of this conversation is actually explored in my favorite piece of vampire and romantic-horror fiction, and the train of thought goes pretty much the way of every person's opinion here simultaneously.

In "Let the Right One In," a novel adapted into a Swedish and American film each, vampiric element of the book, a (castrated boy named Elias) "girl named Eli" is a twelve-year old vampire who has lived for somewhere around two centuries. His assistant, a pedophile named Hakan, helps Eli by murdering people to obtain their blood as a means of having a "safe" way to sate his pedophilac urges since he can rationalize Eli as being much older than him and thus it is not wrong to desire someone who looks like a child. This notion is challenged by Eli's rise into a lesser form of depression (even happiness) upon encountering another child, at which point Eli begins to act like a child and is generally much more energized and dopey rather than depressed and hollow.

The pedophile eventually dies, by the way, and comes back as a monster trying to prey on Eli before being beaten into a twitching goo-pulp by a third party.

The protagonist, friend, and eventual life-partner to Eli is a thirteen-year old boy named Oskar. Oskar meets Eli as two kids and assumes he is the age presented for much of the book, even after the revelation of Eli being a vampire - but the thought haunts him. Is Eli actually an old man inside, laughing at him, looking to create a new helper after her old one dies?

Even Eli(as) doesn't really know, judging by the perspective chapter we get on his part. But when the reveal happens, Elias is adamant: "I'm twelve, but I've been twelve for a very long time." When under stress and isolated, Eli acts somewhat more mature, is coldly practical, and clearly more intelligent than any child could be with a mere twelve years of experience. But outside of those periods (and even within them, sometimes), Eli acts like a kid and engages emotionally with his surroundings as a child would. Oskar makes an observation that maybe the reason he can notice things that Eli (who can solve a Rubik's Cube in about six hours) can't is because Eli is "younger" than him and thus less developed.

All of this informs my perspective on the question of the thread, which is: "What age is the vampire presenting as, what age are they in reality (mentally), and where on the human age line is their potential partner?" From there I think it can be pretty easily puzzled out in most cases where squick and immorality arrive and romantic partnership departs.
Gets even more complicated in higher magic settings.

Take Evangeline McDowell. 400+ years old. Turned into a vampire at 10.

But, she spends as much time as possible using her magic to present as the adult she wishes she was.

 
Depends, how recently did they get turned?

EDIT: some clarification. If a modern teenager get turned into a vampire, and within that year they start dating a human teen, then there isn't an issue. But a few decades/centuries down the line makes it squick to date teens.
 
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This seems like a problem that applies to most cases of two people of different species with different Life spans trying to get together. I'd just go with basing it on a case by case example. Don't date a Vampire that's Physically and Mentally locked into a 10 year old's stated and all.
 
Generally the "child vampire" thing should be played for drama/tragedy, not romance. Claudia is an example of that from Anne Rice.

It should be noted there is a romantic/sexual element to Claudia. That's part of the drama and tragedy because she is a grown woman who can never have the pleasures of being a grown woman.

I personally don't question these things. It's a conceit of any setting with immortals and romance. Angel is hella older than Buffy but he still loves her and she still loved him. Is it problematic if you think about it too much? I guess but then so is every supernatural romance where an immortal or long-lived being date s a human with a normal lifespan. Duncan MacLeod is a sexual predator!

As for the predator aspect, this varies a lot. Some vampires can live without human blood, feeding on animals or whatever.

The rape metaphor thing is stupid and confined to a small number of vampires. It's by no means baked into the entire concept of vampires since vampires are nothing more than what their creator intends them to be. So Hellsing's Alucard is a rapist but Louis from Interview with the Vampire is not.
 
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This entire discussion has made me think about other cases of dating between people with different lifespans. Let us assume that there is a specie (race if we want dating to be fertile) that lives 10 times longer than humans and also age 10 times slower. Someone from that specie at the age of 200 is equivalent to a human at age 20. We can call this specie elf to simplify things (Actual elfs in fictions tend to be immortal or have lifespans way longer but not the point here).

So what happens if a 15 years old human starts dating a 150 years old elf? When they start dating they are for all senses and purposes the same age. The elf might have more knowledge than the human but they have the same mental maturity which is what matters. Two 15 years old humans dating is not skeevy so it follows that this situation should not be skeevy either. So no problems right?

Now say that this relationship lasts 10 years (unlikely because teenagers but stay with me here). The human is now 25 years old and the elf 160. This is now effectively a 25 year old dating a 16 year old. Starting to date at this age I think is skeevy and I would assume most would agree. But when they started dating it was not problematic. What are your views on such a situation? Feel free to modify the starting ages if you want, 15 and 10 years were just easy ages to work with.
 
This entire discussion has made me think about other cases of dating between people with different lifespans. Let us assume that there is a specie (race if we want dating to be fertile) that lives 10 times longer than humans and also age 10 times slower. Someone from that specie at the age of 200 is equivalent to a human at age 20. We can call this specie elf to simplify things (Actual elfs in fictions tend to be immortal or have lifespans way longer but not the point here).

But is such a species even a thing that could exist? I mean, a big part of maturity is basically life experience. And sure, there's an actual physical brain development part, but that seems to be a strange thing to go real slow from an evolutionary point of view.
 
But is such a species even a thing that could exist? I mean, a big part of maturity is basically life experience. And sure, there's an actual physical brain development part, but that seems to be a strange thing to go real slow from an evolutionary point of view.
as an example, in FR, Drow have a 25 year long puberty, at the age of 50.

Now, Drow are a mutated/cursed aberration of the standard FR elf, who have about 3x the lifespan and aren't adults until 90. But even though they are physically slow to develop, they are mentally mature much earlier. FR elves are sort of like Dune "pre-born", in that they are sapient while in the womb, in telepathic/empathic contact with their mother, who teaches them about their family and race before they are even born. Couple this with the fact that FR elves relive their entire lives each night in "reverie", this means that each mother passes on at least part of the entire racial memory. On top of that, noble families have Tel'kiira, which store the memories of all prior wearers and are passed down to the new leader of the clan. So, this makes their "effective mental age" weird as fuck to try and calculate.
 
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