Was Hayao Miyazaki right?

[BossFight]

Not that recent; I can't speak for Japan, but certainly here in the US there have been plenty of franchises/shows for decades that were basically overlong toy commercials. If there's a difference it's that the target audience is older.

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~waggles~ I put the start of the phenomenon at around the 80s which is when that starts in the US anyway. I will note however that these phenomenon are different because they are/were driven by different socioeconomic factors. The merchandising boom of the 80's in USA was very much driven by laws limiting how advertisers could market to children

 

[gyrobot]

I think another problem to add is the decline of popularity of non Gacha anime material as well. Gacha has managed to replace LNs in terms of creating a collection of characters designed for appeal above all else and makes it easy for artists to gain popularity on social media with Type Moon, Mihoyo and Mica Team has mastered that sales strategy since their pixiv fanart submissions now eclipses seasonal anime in general and there is some doujin cirlces worried it may spell the collapse of other industries who have their own struggles in gaining publicity and replenishing numbers

Miyazaki didn't understand the new times - he retired at the height of his career set for life - and didn't quite understand how everything goes to shit and the there isn't extra cash to put into artistic experiments anymore. Bigwigs want cheap shit which brings profts. And the audience want to forget for the while how horrible they feel. If they wanted to feel bad, they would watch the news, or their own life. But Hayao Miyazaki, man from different time, doesn't understand it.

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Would you say Chinese/Korean and to a lesser extent Western adult animation is doing the opposite with escapism in their own anime inspired stuff like GFL and Arknights by painting the world as much more misanthropic than it is and the main character can do little to stop it or even being part of the problem and aiming to be the main contributor to the universe's ills like Rick Sanchez?

Miyazaki is right for sure but the question is whether we can do anything about it. Stuff is worse now than it was, but that's because the before times were times that had not yet been fully cored out by the corporate machinery of global capitalism. We live now on a hollow earth where the only people with anything interesting to say will never be able to find a way to say it. Anime is a highly visible casualty of this because the unique flaws of the industry expose the problem to much more light than might otherwise be expected.

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See the press staff at Anime News Network who rightfully criticized this kind of stuff yet get silenced by parts of the audience who don't want their opinions in the anime industry so they can indulge in their waifu fantasies.

~waggles~ I put the start of the phenomenon at around the 80s which is when that starts in the US anyway. I will note however that these phenomenon are different because they are/were driven by different socioeconomic factors. The merchandising boom of the 80's in USA was very much driven by laws limiting how advertisers could market to children

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Ironic how this doomed western mecha since shows like Gen:lock and Symbionic Titan would have lasted longer with a couple of model kits out to keep the investors and advertisers happy selling model kits of the Holons.

 

[beast_regards]

Would you say Chinese/Korean and to a lesser extent Western adult animation is doing the opposite with escapism in their own anime inspired stuff like GFL and Arknights by painting the world as much more misanthropic than it is and the main character can do little to stop it or even being part of the problem and aiming to be the main contributor to the universe's ills like Rick Sanchez?

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Western media in general are quite cynical and pessimistic, that's true, not just animation.

GFL and Arknights are Gacha games.

They are considered waifu collectors by its audience

Their respective storylines, however, aren't that, and are mostly set in the bleak, post-apocalyptic settings. There isn't that much waifu collecting around story wise.

However, in their case, I blame it rather at either value dissonance, or their authors didn't quite know what you are doing, or failing to see the implications

 

[Kingcrusader]

See the press staff at Anime News Network who rightfully criticized this kind of stuff yet get silenced by parts of the audience who don't want their opinions in the anime industry so they can indulge in their waifu fantasies.

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A missed opportunity to be obtuse.

 

[gyrobot]

A missed opportunity to be obtuse.

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I mean if you look at the seasonal impressions. They gibe negative reviews for titles like Isekai Meikyuu Harem and similar stuff and the response from the fans is to say how out of touch they are.

Western media in general are quite cynical and pessimistic, that's true, not just animation.

GFL and Arknights are Gacha games.

They are considered waifu collectors by its audience

Their respective storylines, however, aren't that, and are mostly set in the bleak, post-apocalyptic settings. There isn't that much waifu collecting around story wise.

However, in their case, I blame it rather at either value dissonance, or their authors didn't quite know what you are doing, or failing to see the implications

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I think it's on purpose because of how their fanbase would be put off by overly idealistic and are young adults and teens who is into this kind of middle school "edgelord" stuff while needing to resort the most cynical form of meeting the needs of the fanbase vs not letting their tastes dictate the creative decisions and tell them "try it, you will like it."

 

[Kingcrusader]

I mean if you look at the seasonal impressions. They gibe negative reviews for titles like Isekai Meikyuu Harem and similar stuff and the response from the fans is to say how out of touch they are.

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Yep, obtuse. I will definitely be obtuse to those fans. Anyone who defends slavery will be exposed as a dumb bitch.

 

[RoseEmbolism]

I feel like this is just nostalgia based on what survived in popular memory. Of course the bad shit of the 80s doesn't get talked about, because no one remembers it.

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As someone who was part of Cartoon Fantasy Organization back in the 80s, I agree. I mean, as far as plotting and characterization goes, a lot of the anime n the 80s was really shallow. I mean, and this pains me to say, if you look at say, Bubblegum Crisis or other classics, and the plot isn't all that. then again, plotting and deep characterization wasn't the point of those shows.

Right now, I think we're looking at major peaks and valleys- the best of the current crop, like Natsume Yuujinchou or In/Spectre are incredible well done, as good as anime ever has been. it's just there's a lot of anime in valleys, and those valleys are deep, and full of crap. As for the average, how can one even compare the averages? The most popular anime series is still Sazae San. So even if I basically agree with Miyazaki, I'm still sanguine, because I still think there's the potential for really incredible stuff to be made.

 

[BossFight]

Not that recent; I can't

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As someone who was part of Cartoon Fantasy Organization back in the 80s, I agree. I mean, as far as plotting and characterization goes, a lot of the anime n the 80s was really shallow. I mean, and this pains me to say, if you look at say, Bubblegum Crisis or other classics, and the plot isn't all that. then again, plotting and deep characterization wasn't the point of those shows.

Right now, I think we're looking at major peaks and valleys- the best of the current crop, like Natsume Yuujinchou or In/Spectre are incredible well done, as good as anime ever has been. it's just there's a lot of anime in valleys, and those valleys are deep, and full of crap. As for the average, how can one even compare the averages? The most popular anime series is still Sazae San. So even if I basically agree with Miyazaki, I'm still sanguine, because I still think there's the potential for really incredible stuff to be made.

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Tell me more about those two anime please?

 

[Ford Prefect]

The industry produces a lot more anime these days and a lot of it is pretty low rate isekai stuff for farming out to overseas streaming services (the genre is not as popular in Japan as it is in America), but like the notion that anime as a whole is actively worse is rose tinted glasses stuff. 2022 was a very good year for anime and last season was wall to wall with great shows. I've been watching seasonal anime for about twenty years and, no exaggeration, I don't think there's a stronger single season than Fall 2022.

The industry has significant structural issues relating to how it is financed and how animators are paid, though these are not new issues, simply old issues exacerbated by anime's growing popularity in the simulcast era.