(Warhammer) The Emperor's background and the issue with him wanting to be a god

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The issue with the Emperor wanting to sacrifice humanity to be a God is from an unreliable narrator. Erebus spewed this to manipulate Horus. Magnus warned him not to listen to Erebus, and Horus mused that all of what Erebus showed him might have been bullshit as the disguise he used to get Horus' attention.
It just doesn't add up, and Horus's thoughts on Erebus being full of shit (and only joining Chaos because of poor writing and his vanity) makes it seem obvious its bullshit.

And ADB said we can safely say Koja Zu is wrong about the Emperor. I asked if ADB said in the afterword for Master of Mankind that the Emperor might be from the DAOT, and someone said their book does not have an afterword.
It was clear when reading Master of Mankind that was just Koja Zu expressing her hatred for the Emperor. It's disappointing that some readers took it as a serious suggestion about the Emperor. She was going to betray the Imperium, being executed for her crimes and informed her son was being taken away.



And the Perpetuals disprove her.

Black Library - Mark of Calth (eBook)
Black Library - Know No Fear (eBook)
 
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Okay, seriously, what is with these Warhammer PSA threads? What discussion are you hoping to get out of this? You're just randomly stating your headcanon, there's nothing to engage with.
 
I mean, the Emperor was still a fascist shithead, so he's still awful, regardless.
This is pretty much the core of my opinion. The Emperor is a corpse on life-support, the exact flavor of how much a complete shithead he was doesn't matter. The books contradict themselves all the damn time, you can find any view you want him to have somewhere.
 
I mean, the Emperor was still a fascist shithead, so he's still awful, regardless.

The Imperium is not fascist.

The Emperor has morals he does not cross (did not cross during the Crusade, though would have if he had to).
Never afraid of extreme measures, Angron had let slip his World Eaters in the most vicious way imaginable. Remus had once heard his primarch say that Angron's Legion could succeed where all others would fail because the Red Angel was willing to go further than any other Legion, to countenance behavior that any civilised code of war would deem abhorrent. Seeing what had been done to Prandium, Remus understood completely. This was no honourable war, this was butchery and destruction embodied. The primarchs' great work could surely never have contemplated war with so terrible a face. -Page 32, Age of Darkness

Most Legions frowned upon Angron and Kurze (Angron for murdering planets instead of conquering them as most Legions). Kurze's officers chastised him for murdering children and broadcasting their screams on the vox net.
The Death Guard used rad weapons, they used all manner of chemical weapons we today irl find abhorrent but they were most often against xenos and so they got a pass. when they did come across a human civilisation they demanded compliance and then irradiated anywhere that held resistance. They wouldn't just massacre an innocent city, they would target non compliant enemies first, they would stop when compliance was achieved.
The night lords share this "would stop when the job was done.....eventually" mentality. It's already known that they stepped over the line and mentioned in dozens of sources that they committed atrocities that ended with them being censored. The difference is theirs was a gradual slide to this barbarism we see during the heresy. They would also in some cases leave the population alive (terrified/shell shocked) when they considered "order/compliance" achieved and almost all of their acts were aimed at non compliant worlds.
The Iron Warriors were almost exclusively siege troopers. They didn't go lay siege to friendly places. They were a meat grinder, they camped out in front of an enemy and kept shooting until one side broke. Their human allies suffered under their direction, pointless deaths occurred, but ultimately they were against non compliant forces that no one else could break, non compliant forces that had already made their choice to fight (and die) and so it was noted that they were a needlessly brutal legion, but it was ignored in favour of results and that their actions were almost always sieges against entrenched enemies. They would go for an immediate strategic attack and stop immediately when compliance was achieved. The brutality exhibited by them was how they went about laying siege to a place (sacrificing allies, wasting lives) but they were disciplined and effective.
Angron and the World Eaters however did not stop. If a planet was not compliant then the planet would die. They wouldn't arrest the citizens or terrify/beat them into submission, they would straight up butcher them. This wasn't the typical "march in with the lads and take out strategic targets first" kind of war that most other legions practiced (though most of them went about it in different ways) they would (and have) rampaged as a bloodthirsty horde across the planet butchering anything that stood in their path, regardless of what it was. There was just a straight up "murder everyone" mentality, and it was carried out, but not cleanly. They used axes, they used melee weapons, they would cut and beat and pulverise their enemies to red smears before screaming and raging to the next unfortunate. There wasn't the "the enemy has submitted let's stop now" that other legions exhibited, they just straight up kept going. In some cases straight into their allies. They killed, they were undisciplined and they were a liability. They killed civilians, they killed men and women and children that had nothing to do with the war, and they did it by overwhelming brutality. The lack of discipline was probably most what disgusted other legions. It's unthinkable for many legionaries to just charge into a fight in a ragged horde screaming and raging incoherently as they butchered their way through whatever was in their path without a plan. There was no tactics, just a hate fueled ragefest of brutal murder played out in whatever battlefield they could create in their bloody assaults.
Compare the Luna Wolves in Horus Rising. (the book where Horus said the Emperor was born in "Anatoly" around page 354) On 63-19, Horus exhausts every diplomatic option - even after the death of a beloved son - before engaging in an operation to utterly destroy the "Emperor's" army whilst minimising collateral damage and without wrecking the planetary infrastructure. Horus goes on to lament that he could and should have taken the world peacefully.

They are a Legion famous for their aggression.​
 
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The Imperium lobotomises criminals my dudes he's pretty much a grade A fascist.
 
Buddy, the Imperium started off as a parody of fascist dystopias presented in stuff such as 2000 AD like Judge Dredd, Strontium Dog and more.
 
In regards to the black library series it's not like the Emperor is so much what you'd call a "character" as much as "convenient plot device to always make the exact most evil-slash-fucking idiotic decision to justify this week's ironic twist" anyway.
 
The Emperor was a Technocratic totalitarian weirdo whom the Horus Heresy books went into pretty exhausting detail as to why while he was a better option than Chaos; he was not a good option and the Horus Heresy that shattered his ambitions was basically all his fault.

Like, Guilliman is just straight up a better statesman and people person than he was and would probably have lead to a better, more liberal and less autocratic humanity if he were in charge of uniting the shattered human colonies instead. Also he wouldn't have failed basic social skills anywhere near as badly as his dad did.
 
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Its fine since he (whatever the shamans identify as) is a gestalt of a multi ethnic racial gender group who needed to hammer out pesky 'baseline' human bickering for the great war. At the end they didnt have a choice since all they have is a corpse figure and a golden life support system.
 

I know about the current imperium but I can't remember if servitors were too common during the great crusade.

That said even during the great crusade when the Emporah was alive he was the one who permitted the existence of the black ships used to "train" psykers into Astropaths.

The training of which involves more or less lots of technically-not-but-more-or-less-still mind rape and psycho-conditioning to "protect" against the influence of the warp. Most people died.

So yeah the Imperium is a pretty bad place to live. Maybe you get lucky and are born in the Ultramar system but most likely you get the short end of the stick and get to pull the gacha on "places where you will be horrifically oppressed and die horrifically".

Makes me wonder how some of these places like hive cities can even support their own population given how it's pretty much just death and despair all the time. Maybe you get elevated in class if you have kids or something?
 
I know about the current imperium but I can't remember if servitors were too common during the great crusade.

That said even during the great crusade when the Emporah was alive he was the one who permitted the existence of the black ships used to "train" psykers into Astropaths.

The training of which involves more or less lots of technically-not-but-more-or-less-still mind rape and psycho-conditioning to "protect" against the influence of the warp. Most people died.

So yeah the Imperium is a pretty bad place to live. Maybe you get lucky and are born in the Ultramar system but most likely you get the short end of the stick and get to pull the gacha on "places where you will be horrifically oppressed and die horrifically".

Makes me wonder how some of these places like hive cities can even support their own population given how it's pretty much just death and despair all the time. Maybe you get elevated in class if you have kids or something?
Humans aren't built for suicide. The default is to keep going, no matter how much it hurts. It takes some pretty out there pressure, or a mental imbalance, to get a human to choose death. Even harder to stop humans fucking if they have the chance. The Hives are supported by people doing what they do best: Existing and having sex and raising families, even in awful conditions.
 
Humans aren't built for suicide. The default is to keep going, no matter how much it hurts. It takes some pretty out there pressure, or a mental imbalance, to get a human to choose death. Even harder to stop humans fucking if they have the chance. The Hives are supported by people doing what they do best: Existing and having sex and raising families, even in awful conditions.

I find it hard to believe considering that in hive cities you are usually being worked to death to serve the greater needs of the Imperium. Or was that a forge world? I can't remember anymore, all the suffering and despair tends to blend together after awhile.
 
There's also the whole genocide thing, which the Emperor was very much for during the Great Crusade.

I recall Aaron Dembski Bowden going "yes the Emperor is evil we wrote him that way!" on r/40klore somewhere.
 
There's also the whole genocide thing, which the Emperor was very much for during the Great Crusade.

I recall Aaron Dembski Bowden going "yes the Emperor is evil we wrote him that way!" on r/40klore somewhere.

From what I understand, Emps has the whole "sacrifice the few for the many" ideology that he uses to justify his means. It's just that in the 40K-verse it tends to turn into "sacrifice the billions for the trillions".
 
There's also the whole genocide thing, which the Emperor was very much for during the Great Crusade.

I recall Aaron Dembski Bowden going "yes the Emperor is evil we wrote him that way!" on r/40klore somewhere.
Must have been an ancient warlord shaman in there or sumn
 
The Emperor: "Nah kill the Eldar, they might be our closest kin in the galaxy but screw 'em."

Guilliman: "Let's hear the Ynnari out and see if we can make a pact against common threats."
 
At this point 40k lore is so convoluted and self-contradictory and unsure of how serious it is that you could tell me just about anything about the emperor, or any character really, and I'd go "yeah ok sure".
 
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