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'There will be no Hulk II Movie' Mark Ruffalo

Derek58 said:
Universal: "Nah, we're fine not making assloads of money with Marvel." :facepalm:
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To be fair, Marvel has every reason to try and give Universal a bad deal here - Universal can't go and make their own Hulk, the film's success would hinge on the MCU connections, the film would be subject to Marvel's MCU project oversight, and Marvel has realized that they can just do Hulk buddy cop movies. They don't need Universal, and they don't need a solo Hulk film. Whatever Marvel wants out of doing a movie like that is almost certainly more than Universal would like to hand over - the Hulk rights, for example.
 
tankdrop24 said:
And remember, that was their second attempt.

The Dark Universe is basically the new DCCU in terms of hopelessness.
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Why are cinematic universes other than the MCU mostly failing right now? DCEU (Wonder Woman is at least really good so there's still hope), Dark Universe, King Arthur, etc. At least the XMen verse and the MonsterVerse seem to be doing well enough for themselves.
 
all fictions said:
Why are cinematic universes other than the MCU mostly failing right now? DCEU (Wonder Woman is at least really good so there's still hope), Dark Universe, King Arthur, etc. At least the XMen verse and the MonsterVerse seem to be doing well enough for themselves.
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Trying to bank on it just being a cinematic universe that they don't put in as much effort as they would as a regular film?
 
Insufficient Dakka said:
Trying to bank on it just being a cinematic universe that they don't put in as much effort as they would as a regular film?
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I don't see any indication of a lack of effort.

I'd say it's been a combination of two things:

First, creative misfires, at least for enough of a proportion of the audience to matter. Some of that is down to quality of execution, but it's entirely possible to try and fail to make a good movie. Including a silly fun popcorn movie. Some of it is down to decisions, like Zach Snyder's dour Superman or Guy Ritchie's urban Arthur, that rubbed many fans wrong and failed to set the mainstream audiences. Those are the kind of things that can wreck any movie, and often do.

Second, making a cinematic universe work is substantially more difficult than making a movie or movie series work. I don't think a lot of the people working on these movies, and in particular the studio execs greenlighting them, realized just how much lightning in a bottle Marvel caught until they tried to catch it, too. It requires, first, making consistently good movies, and second, making them connect in a way that feels like it adds to rather than subtracting from each individual film. And it requires making them within a more restrictive framework than a normal movie.
 
all fictions said:
Why are cinematic universes other than the MCU mostly failing right now? DCEU (Wonder Woman is at least really good so there's still hope), Dark Universe, King Arthur, etc. At least the XMen verse and the MonsterVerse seem to be doing well enough for themselves.
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Well, there's Star Wars, but that's really always been a cinematic universe of sorts, just one that hasn't been used to it's full potential until recently.
 
all fictions said:
Why are cinematic universes other than the MCU mostly failing right now? DCEU (Wonder Woman is at least really good so there's still hope), Dark Universe, King Arthur, etc. At least the XMen verse and the MonsterVerse seem to be doing well enough for themselves.
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X-Men has serious marks on its record like X3, Origins and so on.

Really, the answer is that making movies is hard at the best of times. Making major blockbusters is also hard. You mark the cinematic films that fail but you don't tally up the other blockbusters that do like Lone Ranger or just sputter out like that Divergent series.

The difference is that when you put an entire series on it the problem of failing films magnifies.
 
Cunuroi said:
X-Men has serious marks on its record like X3, Origins and so on.

Really, the answer is that making movies is hard at the best of times. Making major blockbusters is also hard. You mark the cinematic films that fail but you don't tally up the other blockbusters that do like Lone Ranger or just sputter out like that Divergent series.

The difference is that when you put an entire series on it the problem of failing films magnifies.
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The other thing about the X-Men "universe" is that it largely isn't. X-Men is two series of direct sequels (X-Men/2/3, and First Class/Days of Future Past/Apocalypse), one of which had a small crossover with the other series.

Then there are a couple of spinoffs (Origins: Wolverine, The Wolverine), which would fit in a cinematic universe. One of which is terrible and the other, while I like it and it's generally better regarded than the former, did not exactly set the world on fire.

Then there are a couple of movies that don't fit (Deadpool, Logan). Those have actually been the best received, and they really, really don't fit. Deadpool is full of meta commentary that a movie played more straight in the same universe sits poorly with, barely references either continuity, and doesn't seem to have a place in either. Logan posits a bad end for the entire series and more or less has to be treated as an AU.
 
MoogleEmpMog said:
The other thing about the X-Men "universe" is that it largely isn't. X-Men is two series of direct sequels (X-Men/2/3, and First Class/Days of Future Past/Apocalypse), one of which had a small crossover with the other series.

Then there are a couple of spinoffs (Origins: Wolverine, The Wolverine), which would fit in a cinematic universe. One of which is terrible and the other, while I like it and it's generally better regarded than the former, did not exactly set the world on fire.

Then there are a couple of movies that don't fit (Deadpool, Logan). Those have actually been the best received, and they really, really don't fit. Deadpool is full of meta commentary that a movie played more straight in the same universe sits poorly with, barely references either continuity, and doesn't seem to have a place in either. Logan posits a bad end for the entire series and more or less has to be treated as an AU.
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It's closer to a Wolverine Cinematic Universe than an X-Men one tbh.
 
MoogleEmpMog said:
The other thing about the X-Men "universe" is that it largely isn't.
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I think we can say it pretty much is at this point, what with the upcoming New Mutants movie, and TV shows like Legion and The Gifted.
tankdrop24 said:
Well, there's Star Wars, but that's really always been a cinematic universe of sorts, just one that hasn't been used to it's full potential until recently.
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I think we can count Alien, but not sure. And maybe Terminator too since it got a TV show.
 
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I'm honestly unconcerned by this. Hulk works better when acting in a supporting role. We already have two movies showing why a Hulk movie doesn't work. And, personally, I consider those two movies to be semi-canon and generally accurate to what Banner went through before ending up in India and getting picked up by Black Widow.
 
Universal doesn't need it as much as Fox did either. Jurassic World, the Furious series, etc.. They are the second biggest studio and not by much. So less impetus to deal on both sides.

all fictions said:
Why are cinematic universes other than the MCU mostly failing right now? DCEU (Wonder Woman is at least really good so there's still hope), Dark Universe, King Arthur, etc. At least the XMen verse and the MonsterVerse seem to be doing well enough for themselves.
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It's hard to do and most are rushing it.

Note both X and Monsters started first, then branched out. Many others were announced before their first movie.
 
Not sure why people equivocate Hulk and The Incredible Hulk. The second was not the movie of the centuries, but it was leagues better than the 2004 one.

No movie that has the Hulk fighting smart by using doors as shields against sonic weapons is bad in my book.
 
Insufficient Dakka said:
Trying to bank on it just being a cinematic universe that they don't put in as much effort as they would as a regular film?
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Check out mah world building guys!

Or something like that.

I'm personally sort of mixed on the MCU. I like it overall, but I think the snark has been toned up a bit too much. Though that might just be because the latest MCU film I saw was Guardians 2 where the crank handle for snark was really broken off.
 
all fictions said:
Not sure why people equivocate Hulk and The Incredible Hulk. The second was not the movie of the centuries, but it was leagues better than the 2004 one.

No movie that has the Hulk fighting smart by using doors as shields against sonic weapons is bad in my book.
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I think part of why it gets a bad rap is because it wasn't quite as eye-popping as Iron Man was, and later the horror stories that emerged around the lead actor's behavior behind the scenes.
 
Insufficient Dakka said:
Edward Norton? He did messed up stuff off camera?
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There was apparently a creative battle over control of the film between Marvel and Norton, who due to a clause in his contract was also an uncredited producer and had the authority to rewrite the script--which he supposedly did "every single day" before shooting. It evidently contributed to him being replaced with Ruffalo for Avengers, though I don't think either Norton or Marvel will admit as such.
 
Universal had the original MovieVerse back in the 30s with their horror films. Toho was (I think) second with their kaiju films. I suppose Star Wars counts, but if having non-direct sequels is the rationale, then Star Trek beat them to the punch with their TNG-era and Abramsverse films.
 
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