OTL Prussia got beaten so hard and tons of territories taken off them, but they still declare war on France in the end. I don't wanna imagine how many wars we need to spread the revolution to all of Europe.
Also not so fun fact, if you bring democracy to a nation you humiliated, there is a chance they will vote for a revanchist politician.
Not that you don't have a point about the monarchs point of view, but it is easier to deal with 1 person than an angry population.
Prussia could still afford to declare war against France due to Britain funding their war effort. If it wasn't due to that they would be to weak to try and enforce their will. Also, despite what Napot in this timelien thinks, why should we bring the revolution to every country in europe? The amount of dead men ,broken familes, and not to mention the cost alone makes it unfeasable. Despite our desires to see the revolution spread in this quest the foremost desire should be the strengthening of Framce and weakening of her enemies. A state found on militarism and which gained the moniker 'army with a state' definitely qualifies for a long term enemy. Finally if we deprive them the means of enacting revenge on us, so what? They will spit at us call us names, but so long as they do not have the means it will just be theater.
Also want to add, the best thing for France is to simply create a new order which others powers can benefit from. Destroy Prussia deliver silesia to the Austrians and ponzan adn even the region of Prussia to the Russians and they shall see thay they can benefit from the new order. Cap that off with Napoleon proving himself the master of war in this era and Britain may have the money but they will have no willing recipient. After all why should nations fight France when they can benefit from the new order it establishes? (This post sounds cynical because it is, we are here to help France foremost. Having idealism in our foreign policy is bot the way)
Also want to add, the best thing for France is to simply create a new order which others powers can benefit from. Destroy Prussia deliver silesia to the Austrians and ponzan adn even the region of Prussia to the Russians and they shall see thay they can benefit from the new order. Cap that off with Napoleon proving himself the master of war in this era and Britain may have the money but they will have no willing recipient. After all why should nations fight France when they can benefit from the new order it establishes? (This post sounds cynical because it is, we are here to help France foremost. Having idealism in our foreign policy is bot the way)
I 100% agree that we need a new order others can benefit from, but the French populace hates the Austrians in this timeline because of Dumouriez shenanigans. We also managed to make a secret deal with Prussia, so maybe the one we should sacrifice is Austria?
I honestly thought the one that wants to meet St Just would love to spread the revolution.
I 100% agree that we need a new order others can benefit from, but the French populace hates the Austrians in this timeline because of Dumouriez shenanigans. We also managed to make a secret deal with Prussia, so maybe the one we should sacrifice is Austria?
I honestly thought the one that wants to meet St Just would love to spread the revolution.
I aggre with you on Saint Just, our comrade needs our help!
But Austria doesn't have the territories that could benefit us, Prussia does. It just makes more sense that we have a reaproachment with the Austrians and screw the Prussians
But Austria doesn't have the territories that could benefit us, Prussia does. It just makes more sense that we have a reaproachment with the Austrians and screw the Prussians
Italy is a prize we could take from the Austrians right? Though I admit it is a small prize.
But all this talk would mean we would abandon Poland to the Eagles and Bear. Would the others want that?
Italy is a prize we could take from the Austrians right? Though I admit it is a small prize.
But all this talk would mean we would abandon Poland to the Eagles and Bear. Would the others want that?
We can take italian territory but that would compromise the already excellent defense we have, the alps. Instead of just fortifying passes we would have to fortify an entire Frontline. Much better to have a friendly buffer there. As for Poland, just because we don't forcefully free them means we abandoned them. As Francestabilizes Polish intellectuals and men would come to France learn and use their skills to enable resistance against the russians and Austrians, the polish lands would be a poisoned chalice for both sides and serve as a vector of instability. When France fully assimilate its natural borders it would gain a force multiplier. Then ideas of polish liberation could be had But overall don't say I'm planning to abandon Poland, that's just incorrect.
We can take italian territory but that would compromise the already excellent defense we have, the alps. Instead of just fortifying passes we would have to fortify an entire Frontline. Much better to have a friendly buffer there. As for Poland, just because we don't forcefully free them means we abandoned them. As Francestabilizes Polish intellectuals and men would come to France learn and use their skills to enable resistance against the russians and Austrians, the polish lands would be a poisoned chalice for both sides and serve as a vector of instability. When France fully assimilate its natural borders it would gain a force multiplier. Then ideas of polish liberation could be had But overall don't say I'm planning to abandon Poland, that's just incorrect.
In the very long term the Poles are the most natural ally of revolutionary France being that we must fight the German powers and the Russians are inherently opposed to us. That being said, Polish liberation is really a long term goal. By the time French and Polish troops link hands we will have already had to have subdued the Austrians and Prussians. Better something to focus on once France is in a serious position to deal a mortal blow to Prussia. Putting together something like the OTL confederation of the Rhine to subvert the Austrian and Prussian influence over the German states is a more obvious priority (as long as we are campaigning in the north anyway).
Also want to add, the best thing for France is to simply create a new order which others powers can benefit from. Destroy Prussia deliver silesia to the Austrians and ponzan adn even the region of Prussia to the Russians and they shall see thay they can benefit from the new order. Cap that off with Napoleon proving himself the master of war in this era and Britain may have the money but they will have no willing recipient. After all why should nations fight France when they can benefit from the new order it establishes? (This post sounds cynical because it is, we are here to help France foremost. Having idealism in our foreign policy is bot the way)
I agree. Silesia will be given to Austria, some of Prussia Poland will be given to Russia. Next is the Continental System. OTL this system doesn't work as intended and instead making the European nations poorer and Britain richer. This was one of the reason why Russia betrayed France in OTL. So, we must change this continental blockade by replacing it with Europe Free Trade Zone. There will be no tariffs when European nations trading. And Britain will be given an unreasonably high tariffs.
In the very long term the Poles are the most natural ally of revolutionary France being that we must fight the German powers and the Russians are inherently opposed to us. That being said, Polish liberation is really a long term goal.
I disagree. Poland is dead and it will be immpossible to revive it. Now, some of you will asked why? Well, OTL The creation of Duchy of Warsaw was another reason why Russia betrayed France. They worried that the duchy will be used as a staging ground for the invasion of Russia. If we want to insure France hegemony over Europe for decades, then we need the neutrality of Russia. And to do that, we must, reluctantly, abandone the Poles.
I agree. Silesia will be given to Austria, some of Prussia Poland will be given to Russia. Next is the Continental System. OTL this system doesn't work as intended and instead making the European nations poorer and Britain richer. This was one of the reason why Russia betrayed France in OTL. So, we must change this continental blockade by replacing it with Europe Free Trade Zone. There will be no tariffs when European nations trading. And Britain will be given an unreasonably high tariffs.
I disagree. Poland is dead and it will be immpossible to revive it. Now, some of you will asked why? Well, OTL The creation of Duchy of Warsaw was another reason why Russia betrayed France. They worried that the duchy will be used as a staging ground for the invasion of Russia. If we want to insure France hegemony over Europe for decades, then we need the neutrality of Russia. And to do that, we must, reluctantly, abandone the Poles.
Citizen Bangben suggests that we abandon the cause of spreading the revolution, of Liberte to Poland?! He must be a ROYALIST AGENT! (Saint Just's eyebrow twitches involuntarily)
Denis papen originaly discovered the the steam engine (piston and cylinder engine is exact name), he was a Frenchman. We wouldn't need to 'learn' from the British. But if we wish to supercharge innovation we need to create patent law in France a.s.a.p
It would be better to get Claude de Jouffroy d'Abbans (google him) not to flee France during the Terror and/or to agree to Work for Napoleon when he comes back.(edit: should be feasible as he was a Friend of Phillippe D'Orlean)
In addition, get the Perier Brothers and Niepce brothers to work for you. And keep the 3 teams apart.....
The 'natural' borders of France, in case anyone isn't familiar with the term. Lots of iron in Lorraine and the Saarland. There's more coal on the German side. Salt and clay are also in abundance - very important resources in this era, even if they're not really 'industrial' goods as such.
I mean. You'd mostly take what were called Generality Lands in this period of Dutch history. State-Brabant, State-Flanders and State-Limburg (Staats Brabant, Staats Vlaanderen, and Staats Opper Gelre and Overmaas on the map below) . These were Dutch lands that were reconquered from the Spanish during the 80 years war, but were also mostly catholic in contrast to the overwhelmingly protestant Dutch Republic. This meant they were taxed harshly, didn't have any provincial governments, and were controlled directly by the national government (in which they did not have representatives). Dependent territories in short.
As one author puts it: "Back in the Dutch lap, these so-called Generality lands were for a long time governed as a sort of internal colonies, in which Catholics were seen as second-class citizens."
Take them and bits of Gelre (Gelderland) and Holland and reorganize the rest into the Batavian Republic.
I mean. You'd mostly take what were called Generality Lands in this period of Dutch history. State-Brabant, State-Flanders and State-Limburg (Staats Brabant, Staats Vlaanderen, and Staats Opper Gelre and Overmaas on the map below) . These were Dutch lands that were reconquered from the Spanish during the 80 years war, but were also mostly catholic in contrast to the overwhelmingly protestant Dutch Republic. This meant they were taxed harshly, didn't have any provincial governments, and were controlled directly by the national government (in which they did not have representatives). Dependent territories in short.
As one author puts it: "Back in the Dutch lap, these so-called Generality lands were for a long time governed as a sort of internal colonies, in which Catholics were seen as second-class citizens."
Take them and bits of Gelre (Gelderland) and Holland and reorganize the rest into the Batavian Republic.
I agree. Silesia will be given to Austria, some of Prussia Poland will be given to Russia. Next is the Continental System. OTL this system doesn't work as intended and instead making the European nations poorer and Britain richer. This was one of the reason why Russia betrayed France in OTL. So, we must change this continental blockade by replacing it with Europe Free Trade Zone. There will be no tariffs when European nations trading. And Britain will be given an unreasonably high tariffs.
I disagree. Poland is dead and it will be immpossible to revive it. Now, some of you will asked why? Well, OTL The creation of Duchy of Warsaw was another reason why Russia betrayed France. They worried that the duchy will be used as a staging ground for the invasion of Russia. If we want to insure France hegemony over Europe for decades, then we need the neutrality of Russia. And to do that, we must, reluctantly, abandone the Poles.
Unless Paul remains on the throne of this timeline I am skeptical of how viable true Russian neutrality is if Napoleonic France is at destabilizing to the European order as it was in real life. Not impossible I suppose, but neither party in the short lived Franco-Russian alliance was acting in especially good faith. Unless Britain is successfully invaded they'll always be goading the Russians into action, especially if they retain their prominence in trade.
Sergeant Major Gauloise lumbered into General Bonaparte's cramped office in the Hotel de Brienne, ducking his head to avoid the doorframe. Looking about, he spots his target. "Lagrange, with me."
"E-eh? Sergeant Gauloise? Where are we going? What if the generale has need of us?"
"Last I saw he was at the Champs de Mars getting chummy with General Moreau. You good with budgets and accounting, Lagrange?"
"Y-yes? Not to boast, but I helped with the bookkeeping before... circumstances forced me to join the army. Why do you ask, sergeant?"
"Good. The Marsellais. They were in good spirits in Sardinia, but with the weather starting to turn, and being forced to camp outside the city, their vigor and elan have dropped. Can't do anything about housing, but we're in the capital, it's harvest season, we can make sure they're well-fed. You've tasted army food, you know how shit plain rations can be. We'll do some legwork, look for fresh produce, flavorful foods that keep well."
"You seem to have this well in hand, what do you need me for?"
"Generale Bonaparte is to be chief of staff for the Armee du Nord. You'll probably be helping him oversee supply and rations for the army. Getting you an in with the sellers can only help us try and extend this to the whole army. Good food means better morale for the army, and better performance in battle and on the march. Means less chance of mutiny and desertion, especially if we need to force march or fight grueling battles. While we can't feed them a meal fit for a king, hearty flavorful hot meals on the regular will help."
"You can cook sergeant?"
"Enough to get by. Enough to dress up plain rations into something that tastes more than dry and salty. Some vegetables, butter, garlic, ginger, onions. Things like that. Get fresh things while cheap and available, use these first, then break out the rations after your perishables are used up. You can dress up a dry crust of bread with a bit of butter and roasted onion. Onions and potatoes can last for weeks and turn into a tasty stew with boiled salt pork. My favorite is onion fried in oil. Just one before a battle can turn men into lions!"
"I think I am starting to understand, sergeant. And I agree with you about plain army rations. If you think such a small thing can have such a large impact, I am willing to go along with your plan. However, what kind of budget are we working with? We can't just requisition foodstuffs from the common folk like we were forced to in Sardinia."
"Well, aside from what Generale Bonaparte paid for the Sardinia campaign, I've got pretty much all my pay from the last decade saved up. Haven't spent much aside from the occasional meal and drinks with friends. What currency are we on again? I can't remember if it's the Livre, the Assignat, or the Franc."
Lagrange cannot help but shake his head at the sergeant's obliviousness. "Most are using paper Assignats, though metallic currency will certainly go further. How do you not know this? Do you not read the news?"
"I rarely spend money, and when I do, it is always small coins. As for those Assignats, from what others have told me, they're being printed so quickly that they may well be more useful in a latrine than a shop. And I get my news from people I trust. Don't worry Lagrange, this sergeant knows people who know things. How else would I know that the Armee d'Italie is having supply problems despite the fact that they've looked their way across Lombardy?"
"Let's put aside the fact you know about sensitive topics hundreds of miles from here, and just buy some produce."
Another for the onion cult! I'm aiming to get the Chanson de l'Oignon nearly a decade early. Gauloise proving he knows how to motivate men: through their stomachs. Foods like garlic and ginger were looked down on a poor people's food, but being strong and flavorful, are ideal for supplementing army rations. A brief me tion of actual French money and bonds that transformed into legal tender before rapidly becoming worthless paper.
